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#842383 - 12/15/10 08:44 PM Electric fan advise  
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Montecarlo1985 Offline
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West Haven CT
Ok well Im gonna do the electric fan conversion next week and theres so many options available im not sure what they translate to. My car ran 170-180 all last summer long with a 180 stat and stock components except an aluminum/plastic radiator. I have a tuff stuff supercool water pump going in that advertises 30% more cooling. I dont want to overcool my engine either. Heres the parts im looking at.

Electric fan

Relay Kit

Mounting Brackets

Top Plate

Is this worth the appearance and performance in your opinion? Do you guys foresee problems with this setup? How do I adjust the fan relay? Any pics of your setup would be very much appreciated!!

Last edited by Montecarlo1985; 12/15/10 09:36 PM.

1995 Monte Carlo Z34
1985 Monte Carlo SS, 350 SBC

#842423 - 12/16/10 12:14 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Montecarlo1985]  
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Gruvin Offline
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that fan relay is set of 185 on and 170 off, great setup IMHO

The fan is not the best choice IMO as the stocker will pull more than that... that could be alot of $$ for little performance gain too

I would look for other ways to mount the fan as that kit is crazy priced and the $$ for that top plate is more than I would pay, too many olds top plates selling for 40-50.00 on here pretty often to pay that money


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
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87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#842425 - 12/16/10 12:21 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Gruvin]  
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SSLance Offline
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I'm wanting to do this swap this winter as well. I'd number 1 like a plug n play relay setup and number 2 prefer to run a dual fan setup and be able to have both fans kick on with the AC or if needed to cool the radiator. Maybe have one fan kick on at 180, and the second at 200 and both kick off at 170 or something like that.

My car has never even thought about running warm with the stock setup (radiator upgraded to an aluminum w\plastic tank version) even in 100 degrees days idling in traffic with the AC on.

I'm just looking to lesson rotating mass and HP draw while maintaining the cooling ability as easily as possible. I don't mind buying new parts over patching together bone yard parts, but want to make sure to buy something that'll work, the first time around. I've already upgraded to a 140 amp alternator and have access to a Olds top plate.

Any suggestions for fans and relays that'll fit my needs would be greatly appreciated.



Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#842426 - 12/16/10 12:22 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Gruvin]  
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BlueBoy84 Offline
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Find a fan and a top plate from a junk yard. Got a dual fan from a 96 Intrepid and a top plate from an 80s Cutlass, both for $40 total. Here's a good writeup on the conversion...


http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=491948#Post491948

Last edited by BlueBoy84; 12/16/10 12:23 AM.

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L69 315 H.O., Lunati 60101 cam, Edelbrock TES, Flowmaster 40s, 2 1/2" exhaust; Frame-off in 2015, ProTouring theme.
Old L69 Rebuild Blog: http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=837295#Post837295


#842507 - 12/16/10 06:10 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: BlueBoy84]  
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Montecarlo1985 Offline
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West Haven CT
Ya it is kind of expensive. The Main reason for doing this is to clean up the engine compartment further. Everything on the engines chrome basically and with that ugly fan shroud in the way you cant really see anything until you look at it from the side. I also dont like the "wobblyness" of the clutch fan plus ill get a few hp and reduce wear on the waterpump bearing. How many amps does that intrepid fan take do you think? I dont want my voltage meter to go from 14.4 to 12.0 when the fans kick on haha


1995 Monte Carlo Z34
1985 Monte Carlo SS, 350 SBC

#842570 - 12/16/10 06:58 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Montecarlo1985]  
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MD
I run a 30A fuse on my ramcharger (intrepid) fans, and it has yet to blow. Both circuits run through it too.

I wouldn't pay $50 for a relay kit (unless it is thermostatically controlled) when relays are $5 from Help/Motormite and next to nothing in the boneyard. Plus you can custom taylor the harness to your car and make it look more professional than having a stand-alone pre made harness.

#842580 - 12/16/10 07:33 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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Mnt86ss Offline
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Im running the cheapest 16" (I think it is) fan off ebay. It came with a relay kit and everything, but the relay crapped out so its run so whenever the key is on the fan is also. Works great! In 90F summer heat the car runs at 185-195 all day long


America, Love it or leave it

#842699 - 12/17/10 11:47 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Mnt86ss]  
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502SS Offline
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Just an FYI, there's a local chassis/fabricator guy here, as well as another fab shop that will both build custom shrouds for $50. A custom shroud would be much better than the brackets you have listed if you can find a guy (or do it yourself). Here's what he made for me. Mine has to be offcentered to clear the water pump.


'83 Cutlass...project cheap...11.40's so far on a budget

'76 Jeep CJ5...430 SBC on spray
#843294 - 12/21/10 05:56 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: 502SS]  
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ZZ430T56 Offline
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I had one of those single round fan on mine and it worked ok but without a shroud did not cool great and was VERY LOUD. You need a shroud to suck air through the rad like a vacuum.

The Ramchargers (intrepid) fan is the way to go. Comes with a shroud. Dual fans with high and low speeds. Use the Olds top plate and looks factory. I have dual sensors. low fan kicks on at 180* and high at 200*. I have the modine 951 aluminum/plastic single core rad from a camaro and car runs abot 160-180.

Pics
http://zz430t56.hostei.com/engine.html

...Bill


Last edited by ZZ430T56; 12/21/10 06:00 PM.

Bill Rossi
88 Monte SS
ZZ430 350/430hp
T56 6 speed
Ford 9"
WEBPAGE: Bill's 88SS
#843477 - 12/23/10 12:21 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: ZZ430T56]  
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the_merv Offline
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I'm using a LT1 Radiator & Fans..I'm expecting it to open up alot more room.

I have them controlled with the LS PCM & going through the Fuse Box I installed, but I don't see why they wouldn't work properly installed.


1984 MONTE CARLO SS 6spd
6.HO | LS6 INTAKE | CUSTOM CAM | BUILT T56 | CUSTOM 9" REAR | 3.89 GEARS
2002 EBM C5 Z06 | FREE MODS | STOCK WITH TUNE
#843503 - 12/23/10 03:09 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: the_merv]  
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PennsyMonteSSGuy Offline
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ZZ430, that looks fantastic!! Very cool, what you did to that engine compartment as well.


Sold my toy...
#844123 - 12/27/10 03:09 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: BlueBoy84]  
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Richie Cat Offline
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Originally Posted By: BlueBoy84
Find a fan and a top plate from a junk yard. Got a dual fan from a 96 Intrepid and a top plate from an 80s Cutlass, both for $40 total. Here's a good writeup on the conversion...


http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=491948#Post491948
This is the way I did it also. Used fans from early Intrepid (has one big and one small motor), bought a fan controller from Advance Auto http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Thermostatic-Fan-Control---Adjustable-Imperial_15230000-P_N6003C_P%7CGRP2061A____ and a aluminium radiator for a 79 Nova with a 350 from Advance Auto also.Cost me like $90 1 1/2 ago. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Radiator-Ready-Rad_12030863-P_31_R%7CGRPCOOLAMS_1595259316___ I have pictures of what I did, just got to learn how to move them from photobucket to this site. Once I get it , I'll be back. P.S. I don't know why my links are not in color. Copy and paste them in your search box to see them.

Last edited by Richie Cat; 12/27/10 03:17 PM.

83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#844142 - 12/27/10 06:41 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Richie Cat]  
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88ss408 Offline
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what i did for mine is a universal chrome top plate to hold the rad.and i got a Z24 fan i had laying around here . and used a i think its a flexlite relay kit to wire it up it was a cheap set up .


1988 monte carlo ss 408 sbc
-----------------------------------------------------
1984 monte carlo cs 400 sbc
#844149 - 12/27/10 08:05 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: 88ss408]  
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406monte Offline
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I am running a Taurus fan and a fan controller I got from Summit. I have a Griffin Radiator and a Cutlass top plate. It all works like a charm and looks great also.


84 Monte Carlo SC 406 SBC
78 Monte Carlo 305 sbc SOLD
78 Monte Carlo Landua 350 sbc SOLD
81 Malibu Classic 350 sbc SOLD
84 Monte Carlo LS 350 sbc SOLD
84 Buick Regal 229 v6 SOLD

#844346 - 12/28/10 10:01 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: 406monte]  
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Richie Cat Offline
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Just testing to see if I posted a picture of my Interpid fans with mounting tabs. P.S. Looks like I did do it

Last edited by Richie Cat; 12/28/10 10:02 PM.

83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#844348 - 12/28/10 10:10 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Richie Cat]  
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Richie Cat Offline
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Here are pictures how I mounted it using the stock fan shroud mounting points. The gray stuff around the outside of fans is a foam insulating material I bought at a hardware store. It's a solid round foam that I cut down the middle half way and glued it to the shroud. Also in the picture is the aluminium radiator from Advance Auto.






Last edited by Richie Cat; 12/28/10 10:16 PM.

83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#844466 - 12/29/10 04:12 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Richie Cat]  
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87ChooChoo Offline
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For an alternative on the seal to the radiator, I used an old cowl seal. Fit perfectly on the two side edges and the bottom edge on my mark VIII fan. I think you might also be able to use a trunk seal, since it is a slip on seal, and is longer.


85 El Camino Choo Choo with L31 350 Crate, TPI, Serp, TES Headers, GN 200-4r, 3.73 8.5 GN Posi, Acura Buckets, '04 GP Console, Electric Mirrors, Electronic HVAC, ZQ8 wheels, Blazer front brakes, LS1 rear brakes, and more....
https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home
#844477 - 12/29/10 06:01 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: 87ChooChoo]  
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PennsyMonteSSGuy Offline
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Doylestown, PA
Nice job.


Sold my toy...
#844563 - 12/30/10 01:20 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: PennsyMonteSSGuy]  
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Montecarlo1985 Offline
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West Haven CT
Wow thanks guys! I cant wait to post up pics when im done!


1995 Monte Carlo Z34
1985 Monte Carlo SS, 350 SBC

#845239 - 01/02/11 01:32 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Montecarlo1985]  
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SSLance Offline
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SSLance  Offline
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Peoria, AZ
Okay, I'm making a bit of progress on my electric fan setup, but I now have two additional questions.

The following is an adaption of Bill's (ZZ430T56) diagram that he sent to help me with my setup.



Wiring the relays using this method lets you use one sensor to kick the both of the ramcharger fans on low say at 180* and then have another sensor kick the fans on high say at 200* I've got this part working as it should.


I then added the part showing where I hooked a manual 3 position switch to the relays to override the sensors as a back up.


Now for my question. I'd like to have both fans kick on high when my AC compressor engages, but since the sensors and manual switch basically finish a ground circuit to turn the relays on, and the AC wire turns on a 12v circuit, I'm not sure how wire it so a signal from the AC wire turns both of the fan relays on?


Along the same lines...the way I've got the 3 position switch wired currently, it only turns on one relay or the other...both on low. I'd rather have the ability to choose high or low with the manual switch.

Can I use the above method to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish or is there a better route using most of what I already have on hand?

Right now I have:
dual ramcharger fan setup
two relays
a 3 position switch
and a wire loom that started out with just the switch turning the relays on (I've basically cut it up to rearrange to this setup)

I haven't picked up the sensors yet and I'm basically setting this up on my bench right now trying to figure it out before putting it in the car permanently.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#845294 - 01/02/11 01:55 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Okay, I woke up at 5:00 am thinking about this and I think the below will work. Please excuse my rudimentary drawing skills, it is tough on a laptop using only a touch pad.



Basically I added a third relay, used the AC compressor wire to turn the relay on and fed the outgoing circuit to both the green and yellow wires on the fan making both of them run on high when the AC is kicked on. IF there is a problem hooking the outgoing circuit to both the green and yellow wires of the fan, I guess I can add two relays instead of one...but I'd rather not if I don't have to?

I also extended the manual 3 position switch's green wire to both the low and the high relay post 86 turning both relays on when the switch is in that position making both fans run on high.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#845295 - 01/02/11 02:12 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: SSLance]  
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Richie Cat Offline
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Why add a 3rd relay? Use one of the two you have and connect it to the A/C clutch wire. Like I said in my earlier post. I'm using a controller from Hayden. One circuit turns on the fans at 195* and the other turns them on when I use the A/C. Remember what K.I.S.S. stands for.

Last edited by Richie Cat; 01/02/11 02:14 PM.

83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#845296 - 01/02/11 02:36 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: Richie Cat]  
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SSLance Offline
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SSLance  Offline
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The AC clutch wire is hot when on. All other switches are completing a ground circuit when on.

Plus, I want the AC to turn both fans on HIGH when on.

I agree about keeping it simple, but it looks like this is the only way to do that as far as I can tell. I'm open to suggestions though.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#845361 - 01/02/11 10:28 PM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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SSLance  Offline
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I think I've discovered a flaw in my plan above. That's what I get for drawing things up before my second cup of coffee in the morning.

If I hook the hot output from the AC relay to both the yellow and the green going into the fan to get the fans to run on high, it will connect the green and yellow together all the time and they'll always run on high.

If I use that plan, I guess I'll have to put a diode somewhere in there to keep them from being permanently connected.

I'll have the same problem with the 3 position switch if I connect the high side to both the high and low relay.

So I'll either need to put diodes on both or settle for the fans running on low when the ac cuts on and just low from the switch.

The fan is mounted, the relays are mounted, and the 30 amp circuit breaker is mounted. Everything from the battery through the relays then to the fans is wired and tested. All I have left now is install and hook up all of the switches.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#845420 - 01/03/11 05:17 AM Re: Electric fan advise [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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IMO the fans have to be totally automatic and reliable. I'm running the Spal Dual 12" fans with a very early production Spal PWM controller. It's been pretty much set it and forget it. Many have had bad luck with the PWM, guess I'm lucky.

An override was added to the fan circuit with a lighted switch, it overide the controller turning the fans on at any time. It's wired to the A/C circuit of the controller. The switch grounds the controller via the A/C control circuit. I needed a diode in that the switch line to prevent backfeeding the light in the switch.

To make the A/C circuit work correctly I added a high pressure switch to the HP port, near the acumulator. My fan circuit is wired through it rather than the low pressure cycling switch. The A/C system is pretty much all new original, recharged with R12. Converted to 134 years ago and never was happy with it. When the engine swap was done it was converted back to 12, works very well now. The logic to using a high pressure switch is several, you need the fans to keep the high pressure down, not the low pressure, especially with 134. By having the fans run that way they only run when needed. Extreme example is when you run the defrost, which I do occasionally, the heat and A/C is on. Air temp outside is cold, and you don't build high pressure in the A/C. If wired off the compressor, which is running full time, the fans are running full time cooling the condensor, and the radiator, and the carb, and the rest of the engine compartment, just when your trying to warm things up. When driving at moderate highway speeds, 65 and up there is enough air coming through the condenser to keep the A/C happy, high pressure is down. Fans seldom run even though the compressor is running, cycling. Just some food for thought.

I'd have to dig up the high pressure switch part numbers, they are different switches for 12 and 134.

Somewhere I have a wiring diagram of my fan control wiring, just couldn't find it.
Bob

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