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#798432 - 05/31/10 09:11 AM T56 Install question
1 Slow SS Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 2593
Loc: Small town USA
Ok after going back and forth on transmissions more times than I can count I've come to the point where I would swap in the T56.

But the only area of concern for me is the steering wheel lock. Is their a way to mod the steering lock system to work as factory stick car would operate?


Edited by 1 slow ss (05/31/10 10:14 AM)

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#798440 - 05/31/10 10:19 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: 1 Slow SS]
Tunedss86 Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 2132
Loc: Eastern Virginia
Not unless you can find a place to buy parts, or maybe swap them from an F body or S10 column. Dunno. I'd like to know too what other responses are.
_________________________
Scot
86 Monte SS
Soon to get a 400+ hp LS2/T56
http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?78375-86-Monte-SS-getting-an-LS2

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#798441 - 05/31/10 10:28 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: Tunedss86]
Onebadbowtie86 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4364
Loc: Traverse City Michigan
could you just get a column out of a manual transmission f body?
_________________________

'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
DONE!

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#798444 - 05/31/10 10:39 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: 1 Slow SS]
rons87mcss Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 3968
Loc: Albion, Pa
Originally Posted By: 1 slow ss
Ok after going back and forth on transmissions more times than I can count I've come to the point where I would swap in the T56.


....I don't have any help to offer, but secretly 'living' the awesome powerplant dream through your personal project, I'm glad we've decided to go with a T56 afterall laugh I will expect some kind of virtual driving program posted when this is all done so I can get some seat time in with this thing.....


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#798445 - 05/31/10 10:45 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: rons87mcss]
Onebadbowtie86 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4364
Loc: Traverse City Michigan
also Ron, I think you change your mind ALMOST as much as me! laugh
_________________________

'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
DONE!

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#798450 - 05/31/10 10:58 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: Onebadbowtie86]
1 Slow SS Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 2593
Loc: Small town USA
Originally Posted By: Onebadbowtie86
also Ron, I think you change your mind ALMOST as much as me! laugh


ROFLMAO....

The white cue ball looks so cool I just want one.

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#798454 - 05/31/10 11:22 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: 1 Slow SS]
drptop70ss Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 1109
Loc: Poughkeepsie NY
Your steering lock will work fine, the steering column will not rotate out of the park position with the T56. The column in the monte only rotates to actuate the reverse light switch on the column, no need for that with the T56 because the switch is on the trans..so just run the wires to the switch on the trans and dont worry about the backdrive linkage.
_________________________
66/68/70 chevelles
55/57/61 chevys
69/70/71/72 novas
37 buick rat rod
other miscellaneous money pits
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#798455 - 05/31/10 11:26 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: drptop70ss]
1 Slow SS Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 2593
Loc: Small town USA
Originally Posted By: drptop70ss
Your steering lock will work fine, the steering column will not rotate out of the park position with the T56. The column in the monte only rotates to actuate the reverse light switch on the column, no need for that with the T56 because the switch is on the trans..so just run the wires to the switch on the trans and dont worry about the backdrive linkage.


Thanks for the information, I feel better about this swap already.



Edited by 1 slow ss (05/31/10 11:27 AM)

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#798457 - 05/31/10 11:28 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: 1 Slow SS]
drptop70ss Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 1109
Loc: Poughkeepsie NY
No problem..to make it even more "factory" you can run the wires from your neutral safety switch to the clutch pedal switch so the car cannot be started unless the clutch pedal is down. I did that on my 65 just for safety.
_________________________
66/68/70 chevelles
55/57/61 chevys
69/70/71/72 novas
37 buick rat rod
other miscellaneous money pits
and projects

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#798459 - 05/31/10 11:31 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: drptop70ss]
Tunedss86 Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 2132
Loc: Eastern Virginia
Originally Posted By: drptop70ss
Your steering lock will work fine, the steering column will not rotate out of the park position with the T56. The column in the monte only rotates to actuate the reverse light switch on the column, no need for that with the T56 because the switch is on the trans..so just run the wires to the switch on the trans and dont worry about the backdrive linkage.


That is no a true statement. occasionally mine rotates & I have to turn it back to the park position to get the key out.
_________________________
Scot
86 Monte SS
Soon to get a 400+ hp LS2/T56
http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?78375-86-Monte-SS-getting-an-LS2

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#798474 - 05/31/10 11:55 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: Tunedss86]
Onebadbowtie86 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4364
Loc: Traverse City Michigan
Mine stays in the park position and my wheel lock works fine.
_________________________

'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
DONE!

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#798493 - 05/31/10 01:42 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: Onebadbowtie86]
85_SS Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 15036
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I'd have to check when I got home, but I'm 99.99% certain my wheel lock works fine (it's a mechanical lock that is activated with the key removed from the ignition).

I know you're not using the CCC system, but for those that are, you simply rotate the column so the park/neutral switch sees the drive position so the ECM always sees drive (ie. doesn't think it's parked while driving down the road).

The only difference with a steering column from a manual vehicle is the key release lever, which personally, I find annoying and unnecessary (it does add the last touch for a factory looking install though). The only purpose of the key release is so you don't fully turn back the key accidentally while driving down the road and lock your steering column in place. I try to not make a habit of turning the key back while driving, and if I did and the column locked, I'd simply turn it forward again smile
_________________________

1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
5.7 LITRE / TES Headers / SShaker Hood / WC T-5 5-Speed
1970 Pontiac GTO
Orbit Orange Judge Re-creation / YZ RAIII 400 / M21 4-Speed

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#798504 - 05/31/10 02:17 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: 85_SS]
1 Slow SS Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 2593
Loc: Small town USA
I guess I'm just a bit picky. When building this car I want a factory quality job and not have to rotate the column to shut the car off and lock the wheel, non operative reverse lights and so on. So any opinion and potential problem is good to hear. This allows me time to plan this mod eliminating the potential issues that will arise.


Edited by 1 slow ss (05/31/10 02:18 PM)

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#798506 - 05/31/10 02:21 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: 1 Slow SS]
Onebadbowtie86 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4364
Loc: Traverse City Michigan
Ron you dont need to rotate the column. You just leave the otter collar in the park position forever and it is not something you can see. The wheel locks when the key is not in the ignition. The reverse will also work just like normal. You just hook up the factory reverse lights pig tail to the white half moon shaped thing on the factory column IIRC and they will work.
_________________________

'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
DONE!

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#798513 - 05/31/10 02:36 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: Onebadbowtie86]
85_SS Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 15036
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Here's the pigtail for the reverse lights under the column - you just wire in the switch from the trans and you are all set for reverse lights:

http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/alb..._Thumbnail1.jpg

As Jason mentioned, everything will work normally (if you have the CCC system, leave the column in drive rather than park) and you don't have to touch the steering column. The only difference if you install a manual trans steering column is you will have a key release lever that you have to depress to get the key out of the ignition:

http://www.garage-scene.com/t5-into-ag-body/t5_install_steering_column.htm
_________________________

1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
5.7 LITRE / TES Headers / SShaker Hood / WC T-5 5-Speed
1970 Pontiac GTO
Orbit Orange Judge Re-creation / YZ RAIII 400 / M21 4-Speed

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#798515 - 05/31/10 02:38 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: 1 Slow SS]
Houlie Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 3732
Loc: Spencer, MA
Originally Posted By: 1 slow ss
Originally Posted By: Onebadbowtie86
also Ron, I think you change your mind ALMOST as much as me! laugh


ROFLMAO....

The white cue ball looks so cool I just want one.





Make sure to get one with the "red button"......k?


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#798523 - 05/31/10 02:49 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: Houlie]
1 Slow SS Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 2593
Loc: Small town USA
I like the cue ball a lot....
But wasn't that button just added? How much juice are you throwing at it?

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#798525 - 05/31/10 03:01 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: 85_SS]
Tunedss86 Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 2132
Loc: Eastern Virginia
Originally Posted By: 85_SS
Here's the pigtail for the reverse lights under the column - you just wire in the switch from the trans and you are all set for reverse lights:

http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/alb..._Thumbnail1.jpg

As Jason mentioned, everything will work normally (if you have the CCC system, leave the column in drive rather than park) and you don't have to touch the steering column. The only difference if you install a manual trans steering column is you will have a key release lever that you have to depress to get the key out of the ignition:

http://www.garage-scene.com/t5-into-ag-body/t5_install_steering_column.htm


If you leave the column in Drive, you will not be able to get the key out until you put it in park.
_________________________
Scot
86 Monte SS
Soon to get a 400+ hp LS2/T56
http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?78375-86-Monte-SS-getting-an-LS2

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#798528 - 05/31/10 03:16 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: Tunedss86]
rons87mcss Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 3968
Loc: Albion, Pa
I know on my monte and several other g bodies (probably gm cars in general from that time period) you can pull the keys out of the ignition at any time, engine running or not and doesn't matter what 'gear' it's in but maybe that is because something has failed/IDK ??? think

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#798538 - 05/31/10 04:28 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: Tunedss86]
85_SS Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 15036
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tunedss86
Originally Posted By: 85_SS
Here's the pigtail for the reverse lights under the column - you just wire in the switch from the trans and you are all set for reverse lights:

http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/alb..._Thumbnail1.jpg

As Jason mentioned, everything will work normally (if you have the CCC system, leave the column in drive rather than park) and you don't have to touch the steering column. The only difference if you install a manual trans steering column is you will have a key release lever that you have to depress to get the key out of the ignition:

http://www.garage-scene.com/t5-into-ag-body/t5_install_steering_column.htm


If you leave the column in Drive, you will not be able to get the key out until you put it in park.


Pardon me, my mistake - steering column in park, 'Park/Neutral' switch rotated to show the ECM it's in drive (electronically). I actually had it typed right the first time and second guessed myself and edited it - my memory is fading!
_________________________

1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
5.7 LITRE / TES Headers / SShaker Hood / WC T-5 5-Speed
1970 Pontiac GTO
Orbit Orange Judge Re-creation / YZ RAIII 400 / M21 4-Speed

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#798540 - 05/31/10 04:29 PM Re: T56 Install question [Re: rons87mcss]
85_SS Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 15036
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: rons87mcss
I know on my monte and several other g bodies (probably gm cars in general from that time period) you can pull the keys out of the ignition at any time, engine running or not and doesn't matter what 'gear' it's in but maybe that is because something has failed/IDK ??? think


It's a worn ignition cylinder. My sisters S10 was like this, and believe it or not, you didn't even need the key to turn over the ignition LOL
_________________________

1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
5.7 LITRE / TES Headers / SShaker Hood / WC T-5 5-Speed
1970 Pontiac GTO
Orbit Orange Judge Re-creation / YZ RAIII 400 / M21 4-Speed

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#798713 - 06/01/10 01:47 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: 85_SS]
mmc427ss Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 01/14/00
Posts: 2592
Loc: Pottstown, Pa
Ditto on the leaving the column in the CCW position and it will be fine. Did my T56 swap 8 years ago and never had a problem with it moving. Remove the lockout arm at the end of the column for appear sake and it will also remove a little weight which will try to rotate the bowl.

Mark Hichens has good info on his site about manual trans columns. http://garage-scene.com/t5-into-ag-body/
G-body tilt/manual trans column donors are very rare and the only rear advantage to it is you can say you have a manual column in the car. It's one of those things I didn't do but it's on the "to do" list for this decade.

IMO a neutral safety switch is a must, easy to do. You can adapt one from an F if necessary. The stock G switch has been unavailable for years. Bought my GM switch from The El Camino Store years ago when they still had a few left, should have bought every one they had at the time. No one but me ever drives my car but without a neutral safety switch someone can try to start the car and destroy the front end. I've saw that happen once at a shop.

For reverse lights use #12085485 factory pigtail with has the plug for the reverse light switch. From an early 80's Chevy pickup with manual trans pull the underhood reverse light harness from it. It will have the correct wire coloring, a grommet, and the correct plug which will plug right into the Monte plug under the dash, very clean and simple install. Pics if you want.

I know this is for an LS install but as 85SS stated a CCC stick car needs to be wired so the CCC thinks the car is in drive all the time. You simply remove the ORG/BLK wire from the gear selector switch so the CCC see an "open" all the time.

If you decide to install cruise you should install a cruise cutout on the clutch pedal, just more cheap insurance, unless you have a rev limiter set at about 4K. I did make that mistake back then when I did the T56 install, no way can you shift with the cruise on, good thing it was the old 305. To install the cutout you just duplicate what is on the brake pedal, putting the switches in series. The biggest PITA is you need to weld a small tab on the bracket under the dash that the pedal are mounted to. Pics if you need them.

Putting a T56 in a car will change it personality drastically for the better. The clutch/linkage/hydraulics is what makes or breaks the install in regards to drive-ability. I've driven six G body stick conversions and they range from very good to extremely poor. Choose a pressure plate like you would choose a cam, if you ain't going to race it with slicks don't put a clutch in that handles 800 ft/lbs. The smaller the disc you use with a T56 the better the trans synchros likes it, called "spin down time".

Reverse lockout on a T56 is a done with a solenoid. A factory T56 car uses the PCM to open the gate below 5mph. The shifter can be made to go into reverse by forcing it through the spring loaded gate, not a good idea according to the T56 venders. Houlie has a button on his shifter to open the gate, a momentary switch. Initially I used a lighted rocker switch on the console to open the gate, not a good idea. Had to add a buzzer to that circuit to warn that the gate was open, that made the lockout "idiot proof". Hopefuly the PCM that will run your LS will have a connection option for the lockout.

Always try to get the T56 as high in the tunnel as possible at the tailhousing, helps the driveline angles. On a Gen 1 SBC install this seems to be a common problem, trans sitting to low in the rear. Not sure how an LS/T56 swap would be, just try to get the tail up.
Bob

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#798727 - 06/01/10 06:25 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: mmc427ss]
Houlie Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 3732
Loc: Spencer, MA
No juice.....Red Button = Line Lock

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#798736 - 06/01/10 07:44 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: Houlie]
85_SS Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 15036
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Great info/summary as usual Bob. I never did have any luck tracking down the proper GM connector for the reverse lights - I would actually love to find two as it's the same connector used at the A/C compressor (for my serpentine swap). A couple crimp on blade connectors do the trick for now.

As for the G-body neutral safety switch, I did buy one from Elcamino Store when I did my swap a couple years ago now, but I have no idea if they have any left. I haven't installed it yet, and I'm not sure if I'll bother. I always use the brake and rarely put it in gear (only on a hill).

The problem with a neutral safety switch is if someone doesn't remember to put the car in neutral before starting, they likely won't remember at all, making the switch somewhat uselss (I speak from experience LOL). They will just depress the clutch, start the car, then release the clutch and still have the car jump forward. I did this a few times when I first bought my Saturn (my first standard vehicle) when I brought it for oil changes the odd time since I never put it in gear myself and most mechanics do. I've since gotten in the habit of checking if it's in neutral every time I start the car smile
_________________________

1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
5.7 LITRE / TES Headers / SShaker Hood / WC T-5 5-Speed
1970 Pontiac GTO
Orbit Orange Judge Re-creation / YZ RAIII 400 / M21 4-Speed

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#798740 - 06/01/10 08:44 AM Re: T56 Install question [Re: mmc427ss]
1 Slow SS Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 2593
Loc: Small town USA
Thanks Bob, this is what I was looking to hear. You touched base on issues that never came to mind.

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