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#723600 - 09/14/09 10:45 PM power window drop idea  
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WaSSted Offline
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Not sure if this belongs in the customization or not, so move it if necessary.
My wife's car has been in the body shop for the past week and so the insurance company gave us a rental while we wait. It's an '09 F**D Mustake.
This car has one option that I thought would be great for our cars, an option that BMW has had for some time as well.
Power window drop.
For those who have not seen this it basically drops the window about 1/4" to 1/2" inch when you open the door to clear the window seal, and then raises it back up once the door is closed.
I have searched the internet for an aftermarket kit with no results. Maybe I am not using the correct words in my search; I dont know.

Anyway I have two theroies on how to make this happen.
First is in 3 parts.
One thing I did was google the 555 timer, which, allows you to take a +12v pulse and turn it into a delay which can control a relay.
Part 1:
Find a way to activate a momentary switch via both inside and ouside door handles which will activate 555 timer and down window relay for x milli seconds. This circuit needs to be disconnected once the door is opened to eliminate the chance that you might lift the door handle a second time, dropping the window even further.
Part 2:
Either use the current door switch or install an additional switch which will detect that the door is closed. Once closed another 555 timer is activated with a 1 sec timed delay (to make sure the door is actuall shut) before activating the window up relay for x milli seconds.
Part 3:
Now there has to be some sort of switch or device which will deactivate the above circuit when you have the windows down below a certain height. Otherwise the windows will be going up and down when you don't want them to. I believe I could used a mag switch to detect the position of the window via the metal regulator arms to achieve this.

Second theory.
This method would be more mechanical.
Part 1:
Like the first theroy I would use a momentary switch to activate the window down relay. I would use a mag switch to detect the position of the window while the window is going down.
Part 2:
Like part 1, I would used an additional mag switch to detect when the window is completely up once the door is closed. Again the window up relay would be activated by a door pin.
Some logic would be involved in this method to keep the window from rolling all the way up if you shut the door when the window is completely down. With out it, it could become a safety issue.
This method my be easier since the mag switches since the window position would have been taken care of in part 2 of this theory.

Not yet sure if I am going to attempt this project yet. I definantly think it would do three things; allow me to get a better seal around the windows, the doors would close easier, and it may be less stressful on the inner door components.

So you thing I am on to something or am I reinventing the wheel here?

Last edited by WaSSted; 09/14/09 10:48 PM.

Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#723603 - 09/14/09 10:58 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: WaSSted]  
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kubihibi Offline
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Your idea is nice, theories are too complex though.

Easiest? ISIS http://www.isispower.com/index.html

I would say it would require the trigger of the "door open" switch. That would go to a relay/timer assembly that would supply 12v to the window down position on the switch, then timer would kick it back over to the other side for whatever time you need. I'm figuring use adjustable timers. Once the operation is done the relay should be deenergized. It'll have to be the type of relay that holds while the power voltage is present and not just the trigger voltage.


Whoah, I just read the "logic" part. Yea, ISIS is the way to go.

Last edited by kubihibi; 09/14/09 10:59 PM.


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#723613 - 09/14/09 11:21 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: kubihibi]  
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WaSSted Offline
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Wow, isispower that would be a very spendy route.

If I went the route using the 555 IC timers and did all the logic it would probably cost less than 100 dollars. smile

I have a very small budget and I like doing projects such as this. smile


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#723897 - 09/15/09 11:20 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: WaSSted]  
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kubihibi Offline
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Originally Posted By: WaSSted
Wow, isispower that would be a very spendy route.

If I went the route using the 555 IC timers and did all the logic it would probably cost less than 100 dollars. smile

I have a very small budget and I like doing projects such as this. smile


I'm going to be switching over to the ISIS system eventually. Yes it is expensive, but it is a complete wiring harness that is flippin cool to boot.

If you don't go already, I recommend heading over to hackaday.com

PS - You think a mag switch would be better than a limit switch?

Last edited by kubihibi; 09/15/09 11:21 PM.


Oh SNAP! I'm a Vet! Stuff for Sale
#723921 - 09/16/09 12:00 AM Re: power window drop idea [Re: kubihibi]  
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WaSSted Offline
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After futher consideration, I think a proximity sensor would work better than a mag switch. I havent tore into the door as of yet but if I believe (at this point) it may be easier to mount a proximity sensor to detect that 1/4 gear the window motor turns.

Originally Posted By: kubihibi
Originally Posted By: WaSSted
Wow, isispower that would be a very spendy route.

If I went the route using the 555 IC timers and did all the logic it would probably cost less than 100 dollars. smile

I have a very small budget and I like doing projects such as this. smile


I'm going to be switching over to the ISIS system eventually. Yes it is expensive, but it is a complete wiring harness that is flippin cool to boot.

If you don't go already, I recommend heading over to hackaday.com

PS - You think a mag switch would be better than a limit switch?


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#723949 - 09/16/09 12:44 AM Re: power window drop idea [Re: WaSSted]  
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Beemer Offline
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This is a cool idea, I see cars with these pop into the shop every now and then. But all of these cars' windows slip up into a trim piece. The reason they do that is to get a tighter seal from thieves (obv). But seeing as ours don't slide up into a panel or trim of sorts, wouldn't this project seem useless? Unless I'm missing something?

- Brandon


Nothin but a G-thang

Jade
#724936 - 09/19/09 10:35 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: Beemer]  
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WaSSted Offline
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We still have the Mustake from Enterpirse and I have been eyeballing the window seals and trim. Comparing to our Monte's yes we do not have a trim piece in which the window rolls up into. Although I was looking at my car and if a guy wanted to incorporate a piece of trim for the window to roll up into, it could be done.
I can see how the idea of having the windows drop in our cars as being useless.
My thoughts:
The seals on my doors are pretty much shot, they whistle in the wind and occasionally leak water. Even though their shot, when I lower the window 1/4" of an inch I notice that it's much easier to close the door.
I believe our doors and internal components take a beating each time the door is closed. I have welded cracks in my doors which were caused by stress from where the window meets the upper seal. I have also replaced the plastic guides for the window as well.
So my theory; incorporating window drop into my car will reduce the stress caused by closing the door.
As an added bonus I believe it will allow me to get a better seal as well, once I get new seals. And I guess if I added the trim around the top of the window it would increase security as well, which I am not worried about since my car has only spent one night outside in the last 5 years.

Lack of circuit diagrams for window drop on the net and my unwillingness to dig into this Mustake that I do not own, I have nothing to copy or go by example.
In addition to the theory I posted earlier I have realized that the door close circuit will be the hardest to over come.
But I have a plan. I have not had a chance to do any tests; I need to make a trip to radioshack.
I have found that I can used a 556 (555 dual timer) IC to handle the timing.
I have not calculated the times yet so this is just for example.
Once the door shuts a door pin will activate the first timer which wait for 1 second, once the first timer elapsed the second timer will be activated. The second timer will activate the window up relay for 1.5 seconds.
I found enough 555 timer circuits on the internet, I believe with some time and testing I can make this portion happen.
For the window to drop when the door is opened, I will again use a 555 timer to handle the window drop time, which will be activated by a switch which is tied into to the door handles.
Now what if it's summer time and I have the window already down, I will not want the window jumping up and down when it's already down. To eliminate this I need a switch inside the door that deactivates all window up and down circuits once the window is lower than (lets say) 1 inch.

There may be a few of you reading this thread still wondering why? Why go through all of this when the doors and windows will operate just fine if adjusted correctly. Well fall is here and I am already starting to get cabin fever. I need to find a project to keep me from going crazy. This is the type of project I like to wrap my arms around. It's something no one else (as far as I can tell) has done to an older car. I like playing with electrical circuits as well. And finally, I installed power windows into my drivers side door last spring and never finished the passenger side. So I have to tear into the doors anyway.


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#727741 - 10/01/09 02:53 AM Re: power window drop idea [Re: WaSSted]  
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DENN_SHAH Offline
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Houston
back in the 60s, the Lincoln Continentals with suicide rear doors like the one President Kennedy was shot in dropped the back windows 5 inches when you opened the rear doors.
they had to do that because the seals for the back part of the front windows were on the front of the rear windows.
the clearance was pretty tight and you could break both the front and back windows when closing the back doors if the back window didn't drop when you opened the back doors.
the rear windows would drop and raise without the ignition being on.
if the back window didn't drop, you had to open the front door before you closed the back door.
they did it with nothing more than some switches and relays.
i think you should be able to find a wiring diagram floating around on somewhere the net.

this shows the rear windows in operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtM5j0VwMV8

i thought i would mention the top too.
raising or lowering the convertible top with the push or pull 1 switch required a good number of control switches, relays and several electric motors.
the top in operation,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFv-90H99vM

Last edited by DENN_SHAH; 10/01/09 03:17 AM.
#727799 - 10/01/09 01:56 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: DENN_SHAH]  
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bug Offline
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don't know if this will help, but the dodge challenger windows drop when you open the door. you might be able to get the scematic for those, or incorperate parts from one in a junk yard.

#727806 - 10/01/09 02:51 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: kubihibi]  
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SickSpeedMonte Offline
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Originally Posted By: kubihibi
Easiest? ISIS http://www.isispower.com/index.html

Whoah, I just read the "logic" part. Yea, ISIS is the way to go.


That's insane! That opens the door to so many possibilities...

Thanks for sharing.

You could also use this to program auto up/down windows (where you touch the switch for less than a second, and they go all the way up/down by themselves)

#727862 - 10/01/09 08:38 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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WaSSted Offline
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After looking further into isispower.com I believe their setup is based upon a PIC microprocessor. I've yet to play with PIC's but after reading through a tutorial it wouldnt be difficult to build. Just need to freshen up my assembly coding skills.


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#832344 - 10/24/10 08:15 AM Re: power window drop idea [Re: WaSSted]  
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Just curious any progess?

#832458 - 10/25/10 12:46 AM Re: power window drop idea [Re: bug]  
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Originally Posted By: bug
don't know if this will help, but the dodge challenger windows drop when you open the door. you might be able to get the scematic for those, or incorperate parts from one in a junk yard.

Ford and Chryslers window drop action are function of the BCMs and you wont find a diagram with activation points or switches,there definetly wont be incorporating that on a budget.


88 SS silver/gray T-Top
Reinventing the wheel and busting internet myths one project and one post at a time.
#832578 - 10/25/10 04:30 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: WaSSted]  
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SickSpeedMonte Offline
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Originally Posted By: WaSSted
After looking further into isispower.com I believe their setup is based upon a PIC microprocessor. I've yet to play with PIC's but after reading through a tutorial it wouldnt be difficult to build. Just need to freshen up my assembly coding skills.


I was reading up about microcontrollers a little bit recently, and I really want to try a few things. Have you checked out the BASIC Stamp? Or the Axon? I think the easiest thing to do would be to just buy one and start messing around with it.

#833192 - 10/28/10 04:01 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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WaSSted Offline
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In the last year I have had no forward progress with the window drop idea. It got taken off the back burner and stuffed into the freezer for another time.

I still believe the PIC chips are the way to go for this type of project, maybe sometime I will find the time to learn more.


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#833197 - 10/28/10 05:14 PM Re: power window drop idea [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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Not trying to HiJack this but is there a better window motor out there now, maybe from a different model that works faster?


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#833807 - 10/31/10 06:04 AM Re: power window drop idea [Re: DENN_SHAH]  
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Originally Posted By: DENN_SHAH
back in the 60s, the Lincoln Continentals with suicide rear doors like the one President Kennedy was shot in dropped the back windows 5 inches when you opened the rear doors.
they had to do that because the seals for the back part of the front windows were on the front of the rear windows.
the clearance was pretty tight and you could break both the front and back windows when closing the back doors if the back window didn't drop when you opened the back doors.
the rear windows would drop and raise without the ignition being on.
if the back window didn't drop, you had to open the front door before you closed the back door.
they did it with nothing more than some switches and relays.
i think you should be able to find a wiring diagram floating around on somewhere the net.

this shows the rear windows in operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtM5j0VwMV8

i thought i would mention the top too.
raising or lowering the convertible top with the push or pull 1 switch required a good number of control switches, relays and several electric motors.
the top in operation,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFv-90H99vM


i know this post is old- but the 66 Continental 4 door that i had back in the mid 90's didn't have windows that rolled down automatically. they stayed up unless you pushed the button to open them, and i never had any issues with opening or closing doors and didn't have any leaks when it rained.
that car was awesome- the automatic climate control worked perfectly and kept the temp wherever you set the dial. but the vacuum operated power locks didn't work all the time.. and just for fun, 7 of my friend got in the trunk and i closed them in and went for a drive around the block. they said it wasn't even very uncomfortable..


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