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#649766 - 02/17/09 12:53 AM Spring Rates - Which would be best?  
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The_Madness Offline
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Gulfport, MS
I've decided to go with the QA1 Pro Coilovers (adjustable shocks) instead of G-Body or S10 springs for my Monte, but I can't decide which spring rate to run - either 450 or 550 lb/in. I know that the stock front end weight (weight on the front springs) of a G-body is 2150 lbs and the SS spring rate is 420 lb/in. The A/C and heater have been ditched in favor of (maybe) a Heatercraft heater. I've emailed a tech at QA1 and he said that either rate would be fine, although the 450s would be better for drag racing but the 550s would less likely bottom out and provide better handling. My car will see 10%-25% of its time being driven at the drag strip.

So what do you guys think?

Last edited by The_Madness; 02/17/09 03:09 AM.

1984 Monte Carlo SS - currently taking a long-term nap
2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel
#649807 - 02/17/09 02:24 AM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: The_Madness]  
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Gruvin Offline
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just drive it carefully on the street and get the 450s


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
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87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#649832 - 02/17/09 05:17 AM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: Gruvin]  
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baaboo Offline
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It's even then. I say the 550# ones, since it's a street car.


1987 Aerocoupe, 383 Super Ram and 20-gallon custom aluminum tank. Car retired (for now) from open road racing, but I'm not.
#649858 - 02/17/09 12:16 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: ]  
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Luke T. Offline
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i would go with the 550s... if the car sees little track time, why bother buying suspension made for the track?


1983 Monte Carlo SC Landau
#649864 - 02/17/09 12:51 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: Luke T.]  
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Gruvin Offline
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I read it backwards(I read it as mostly track) so I change my answer to the 550s


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
[Linked Image]
87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#649877 - 02/17/09 02:37 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: Gruvin]  
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Barry 85 SS Offline
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I thought the reccomendation was a 350 for small block and 450 for big block. I wouldn't go more than the 450.

#649890 - 02/17/09 03:22 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: Barry 85 SS]  
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Gruvin Offline
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Originally Posted By: Barry 85 SS
I thought the recommendation was a 350 for small block and 450 for big block. I wouldn't go more than the 450.
350 is lighter than a stock F41 spring, there is no way I would run that on the street. I would run the heavier springs and unhook the front sway bar at the track.


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
[Linked Image]
87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#649910 - 02/17/09 04:31 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: Gruvin]  
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The_Madness Offline
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Yeah, a stock F41 Spring has a 420 lb/in rate (450 according to some people), so I don't want to go any lighter than that. I figure that since the roads around here in PA are so crappy, I'll need the 550s to keep it from bottoming out.

I have a friend who races his Mustang every weekend at the track during racing season. I'll probably only hit the track once every 2-3 weeks after the motor's broken in. So the 550s will probably have enough weight transfer for occasional racing with street tires and the stock 7.5" rear.

If I swap out the heads for some aluminum ones, I can always get another set of springs down the road.

Thanks guys!


1984 Monte Carlo SS - currently taking a long-term nap
2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel
#649973 - 02/17/09 09:11 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: The_Madness]  
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If you are lowering the front end, get the 550's. You dont want a stock spring rate on a lowered car that you expect to handle better than stock and not bottom out. You'll also want to stiffen up the rear some too or you will tend more towards understeer than you do currently.

#650103 - 02/18/09 01:57 AM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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If your not going to race that much why buy coil overs and control arms to support the installation? When you have a 7.5 rear and street tires? And 550 is way too much spring rate for even a part time drag racer. The whole idea is to have a long softer spring that sits low at rest. When you hit the gas it travels more giving the weight transfer. A high rate spring will sit higher and travel less. You only need a good set of adjustable shocks for your application IMO.


Enjoy life, family first!
#650140 - 02/18/09 02:51 AM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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The_Madness Offline
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Originally Posted By: SickSpeedMonte
If you are lowering the front end, get the 550's. You dont want a stock spring rate on a lowered car that you expect to handle better than stock and not bottom out. You'll also want to stiffen up the rear some too or you will tend more towards understeer than you do currently.


I plan on swapping out the rear springs for a set of F-body Moog Cargo Coils which I'll cut to drop the rear about 1-1.5". The rears are unfit for much hard use right now. The left spring has a couple coil supports installed in it by one of the previous owners due to the fact that it's shot.


1984 Monte Carlo SS - currently taking a long-term nap
2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel
#650143 - 02/18/09 03:05 AM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: 1 Slow SS]  
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The_Madness Offline
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Originally Posted By: 1slowSS
If your not going to race that much why buy coil overs and control arms to support the installation? When you have a 7.5 rear and street tires? And 550 is way too much spring rate for even a part time drag racer. The whole idea is to have a long softer spring that sits low at rest. When you hit the gas it travels more giving the weight transfer. A high rate spring will sit higher and travel less. You only need a good set of adjustable shocks for your application IMO.


The QA1 Pro Coilovers will work with the stock control arms. I do plan on getting a set of Spohn LCAs set up for the coilovers some day...when I have $400 I don't know what to do with.

I understand the idea of a soft spring rate for drag racing - it's the whole idea behind Moroso Trick Springs. However, it's a trade off when it comes to lowering the car. I'm gonna drop the front 1-2", so naturally, with the crappy roads around here, I'd probably be bottoming out on every other pothole.

Those of you who are running stiff drop springs in the front - are you having any trouble hooking up at the track?


1984 Monte Carlo SS - currently taking a long-term nap
2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel
#650226 - 02/18/09 12:12 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: The_Madness]  
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SickSpeedMonte Offline
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Originally Posted By: The_Madness
Originally Posted By: SickSpeedMonte
If you are lowering the front end, get the 550's. You dont want a stock spring rate on a lowered car that you expect to handle better than stock and not bottom out. You'll also want to stiffen up the rear some too or you will tend more towards understeer than you do currently.


I plan on swapping out the rear springs for a set of F-body Moog Cargo Coils which I'll cut to drop the rear about 1-1.5". The rears are unfit for much hard use right now. The left spring has a couple coil supports installed in it by one of the previous owners due to the fact that it's shot.


If all you want is 1-1.5" drop in the rear, forget about the cut cargo coils. There's no reason to sacrafice the upper pigtail when there are off the shelf springs that will drop you that much and be safer.

#650229 - 02/18/09 12:36 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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The_Madness Offline
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Gulfport, MS
Yeah, but drop springs run about $150-$300; the Moogs are about $50-$70.


1984 Monte Carlo SS - currently taking a long-term nap
2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel
#650243 - 02/18/09 02:44 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: The_Madness]  
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Trust me, its worth the extra money. I have cut IROC coils in the rear of my car and every time I jack the car up, I have to re-seat them. They even came unseated during an autocross run, and it scared the crap out of me. I didnt know of any other option, but there may be one other way to go that I'm looking into.

#650255 - 02/18/09 03:18 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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MattsMonte Online content
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Here is a good post from Jeff Davidson on the technical page of Montecarloss.com

http://jeffd.50megs.com/Moog_Spring_Page.htm

The spring choice is a combination of the spring tension, whether or not the spring compresses at a constant rate for each added pound or not, and the intended ride height for the intended weight of the car.

I don't pretend to understand all of this, but after reading a lot and asking questions of guys on MCSS site that have used various springs I have chosen the following application:

Front MOOG 5658 Springs with 1/2 coil cut off – assume lowers front 1.5” If the 1/2 turn does not achieve the drop I need, I will take a little more.
Rear MOOG 5413 Springs uncut –assume lowers rear 1.5”

Cutting off 1/2 turn increases the spring rate. Some have estimated a 10% increase. So depending on the MOOG chart you use, I am looking at pretty good step up in spring strength.

Don't know about any other brands, since my research was all focused on MOOG.


[Linked Image]

1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#650259 - 02/18/09 03:56 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Here is some more info on springs:

http://www.monte-list.nu/tech/springs.shtml


~Dave~
Monte Carlo...."Born on the Track, Driven on the Street"
#650260 - 02/18/09 03:56 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Gruvin Offline
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Originally Posted By: MattsMonte
Don't know about any other brands, since my research was all focused on MOOG.
Just to mess with you, the MOOG part number for is 5660 and the TRW part number is 5660CS wink Federal Mogal uses the same part number as well.


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
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87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#650777 - 02/19/09 05:55 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: Gruvin]  
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The_Madness Offline
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I read both of those tech articles a while back and that's how I found out about cutting the F-body Cargo Coils. I'll probably look into some drop springs, though.


1984 Monte Carlo SS - currently taking a long-term nap
2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel
#651053 - 02/20/09 10:19 AM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: The_Madness]  
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montessaj Offline
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Madness,

I have an extra set of rear drop springs I'll sell you for $40 plus the ride. I thought I was going to use them but I bought Hotchkis instead. They are used but they weren't used for very long. This way you wont have to cut springs and still get about an inch of drop in the rear.

Andy

#652158 - 02/23/09 02:36 AM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: montessaj]  
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The_Madness Offline
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What brand are they?


1984 Monte Carlo SS - currently taking a long-term nap
2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel
#652182 - 02/23/09 03:21 AM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: The_Madness]  
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The_Madness Offline
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Unfortunately, I just can't bring myself to drop $500 on QA1 coilovers right now. With the economy in a dump and a strange clunking in my Jeep's tranny (30RH automatic piece-o-crap), I'll probably just throw some stock replacements in with a little bit cut out of the coil. I might put coilovers in this summer, or maybe I'll hold off a little longer and get some tubular LCAs as well.

Thanks for all your help and opinions guys!


1984 Monte Carlo SS - currently taking a long-term nap
2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel
#652209 - 02/23/09 04:34 AM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: The_Madness]  
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Barry 85 SS Offline
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If money is an issue why buy new springs, just cut the stock ones, thats what I did.

#652342 - 02/23/09 05:54 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: Barry 85 SS]  
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The_Madness Offline
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The stock ones have seen much better days. Right now they're sitting outside rotting away. When I pulled 'em out, they were pretty much just bare, rusted steel. The coils are intact, but they're just pretty well worn. 'Tis what happens when a car sees several winters in Pennsylvania. Hasn't seen snow since I've had it, though. A new set of Moogs is about $90, which is much better than having a spring failure.


1984 Monte Carlo SS - currently taking a long-term nap
2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel
#652377 - 02/23/09 07:49 PM Re: Spring Rates - Which would be best? [Re: The_Madness]  
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Gruvin Offline
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Originally Posted By: The_Madness
A new set of Moogs is about $90, which is much better than having a spring failure.
$90.00? EEK! When did that happen?


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
[Linked Image]
87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
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