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#751222 - 12/25/09 05:12 AM Re: body bushings [Re: 86_SS]  
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MattsMonte Offline
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Here is a nice alternative for the radiator supports, position 1

http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=751220&#Post751220


[Linked Image]

1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#753014 - 01/01/10 05:33 PM Re: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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MAP Offline
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Hi Folks,

I thought I'd explain the reason for the cups: they're a geometric device to create non-linear stiffness in the bushing, tending toward the condition of a nearly solid bushing with very high compression, and a soft bushing under tension.

I think the engineers thought this non-linearity was desirable to give good NVH with small road irregularities, but with increasing structural support derived from fender's vertical stiffness when encountering very large bumps.

The relative motion between the frame and the fender is surprisingly large at the #1 location.

Best,
MAP

#753037 - 01/01/10 07:36 PM Re: body bushings [Re: MAP]  
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MattsMonte Offline
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Mark

Why do you think they went away from the cups in '07 and '08?

Larry


[Linked Image]

1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#754487 - 01/07/10 12:43 AM Re: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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would it be possible to run aluminum bushings on the #1 and # 7 locations? Instead of Delrin?

#754541 - 01/07/10 03:55 AM Re: body bushings [Re: onecool86]  
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MattsMonte Offline
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MAP would be the one to answer this one.


[Linked Image]

1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#772755 - 03/09/10 05:10 AM Re: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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MattsMonte Offline
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Hey MAP, GuysMonteSS has a good question for you.

There's some great info in this thread & I've been keeping track of it, but I am curious about one aspect of making these delrin bushings. From checking the #1 location on my own car & seeing that they could use replacement, I noticed that the lower bushings is a "stepped" peice. There is a smaller upper half, (all one bushing just changes size if that makes it any clearer) of the lower bushings the fits inside the mounting point on the body of the vehicle.
While reviewing the measurements provided by MAP to make these bushings in the link posted & throughout this thread, I see no mention of this change in size on the lower bushing. Am I now to assume that just due to the weight upon them & the "sandwich" effect, there is no longer any need to step the size down to fit inside the body location? If so, it seems to me like there would be the chance of excess body over bushing movement side to side. Anyone care to comment

Could you clear this up for me ???
Guy


[Linked Image]

1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#772785 - 03/09/10 08:08 AM Re: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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MAP Offline
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Hi Guy,

It's been so many years since I removed those old OEM bushings that I admit I have no recollection of whether my bushings had the frame-hole-registering step or not.

The step certainly would help to keep parts from sliding with respect to each other, but from simple friction with proper tensioning of the mounting bolt (I'm guessing in the vicinity of 80 ft-lb with a grade 8 bolt,) I've noted no relative motion of parts over the years.

Best,
MAP

#772827 - 03/09/10 02:31 PM Re: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Monte_ExpreSS Offline
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Originally Posted By: MattsMonte
Hey MAP, GuysMonteSS has a good question for you.

There's some great info in this thread & I've been keeping track of it, but I am curious about one aspect of making these delrin bushings. From checking the #1 location on my own car & seeing that they could use replacement, I noticed that the lower bushings is a "stepped" peice. There is a smaller upper half, (all one bushing just changes size if that makes it any clearer) of the lower bushings the fits inside the mounting point on the body of the vehicle.
While reviewing the measurements provided by MAP to make these bushings in the link posted & throughout this thread, I see no mention of this change in size on the lower bushing. Am I now to assume that just due to the weight upon them & the "sandwich" effect, there is no longer any need to step the size down to fit inside the body location? If so, it seems to me like there would be the chance of excess body over bushing movement side to side. Anyone care to comment

Could you clear this up for me ???
Guy


think I think I asked that, not Guy? think (pg 3)

#772896 - 03/09/10 05:21 PM Re: body bushings [Re: Monte_ExpreSS]  
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MAP Offline
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Why, my apologies Monte_ExpreSS if I misidentified the poster! I saw two names in that post and drew the wrong conclusion.

Thanks,
MAP

#772899 - 03/09/10 05:32 PM Re: body bushings [Re: MAP]  
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No problem MAP, so long as we get a answer from you. smile My post was actually directed toward Larry. smile

#772929 - 03/09/10 07:05 PM Re: body bushings [Re: Monte_ExpreSS]  
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GuysMonteSS Offline
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Any confusion here is probably my fault from this post;
http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=771211&page=3
I was asking Larry about some bushings that Monte_ExpreSS had refered to.
Guy


GuysMonteSS '86 SS,513 BBC,AFR Heads,UDHarold/Bullet Custom Solid Roller Cam,706 lift,255/263 @ .050,Jesel Shaft Rockers,Balanced & Blueprinted,Doug Nash 4+1 5 Speed,Hurst In-Line Shifter,Ford 9 Inch Rear,SC&C Street Comp Stage 2+ Front End Kit...
#773069 - 03/10/10 12:34 AM Re: body bushings [Re: GuysMonteSS]  
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MattsMonte Offline
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I probabaly contributed to the confusion as well

Larry


[Linked Image]

1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#780633 - 04/02/10 07:05 PM Re: body bushings [Re: MAP]  
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kubihibi Offline
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Originally Posted By: MAP
... I'd go stiff at the front of the car with Delrin at #1, and roughly as stiff at the rear of the car with PU or Delrin at #7, and OEM rubber at all intermediate locations, and fully populated (i.e., full uppers and lowers at #2,#3,#4,and #6. Remember, #5 was only an "upper" from the factory for all A/G bodies.)
...


Just wanted to bring this "up to the top."


Anyone else want to pull P/N's, Brands and comparative stiffness info to the top as well?



Oh SNAP! I'm a Vet! Stuff for Sale
#787891 - 04/24/10 05:44 PM Re: body bushings [Re: kubihibi]  
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MattsMonte Offline
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Good link for the #1 position bushing alternative discussion

http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ub...;gonew=1#UNREAD


[Linked Image]

1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#789555 - 04/29/10 09:24 PM Re: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Dr.D Offline
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Found a site with listings for mounts but am unsure of the correct sizes etc. Here's the link and if anyone can sort out the numbers let me know as I have to replace all mounts on the wifes 83.

Drew

http://www.oldcarstuff.com/catalog/index...t=3a&page=1

Last edited by Dr.D; 04/29/10 09:26 PM.
#789663 - 04/30/10 04:07 AM Re: body bushings [Re: Dr.D]  
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MattsMonte Offline
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That is tough since each GM body mount are not only different shapes/sizes, but different hardness for each body mount.


[Linked Image]

1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#811461 - 07/20/10 06:57 PM Re: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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has anyone use alum body mount bushings? i was thinking of trying them on my monte.


85'monte ss race car with a cage and notch frame.soon to have my bbc and t400 trany wih a 9inch rear.86'monte ss sbc,200r4 plan for it.
#811507 - 07/20/10 09:59 PM Re: body bushings [Re: gbodydude496ci]  
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i've have a set installed on my monte now, got them here http://www.tntraceshop.com/g-body_solid_mounts.html
they are going to ride extremely harsh for the street just f.y.i.
but they stiffen the chassis quite a bit. mike


President Wicked Rides/Wicked Montes Georgia chapter
#811514 - 07/20/10 10:18 PM Re: body bushings [Re: pazzo1969]  
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can it cause any cranks in the body?


85'monte ss race car with a cage and notch frame.soon to have my bbc and t400 trany wih a 9inch rear.86'monte ss sbc,200r4 plan for it.
#811536 - 07/20/10 11:39 PM Re: body bushings [Re: gbodydude496ci]  
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pazzo1969 Offline
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haven't had a chance to twist mine up.lol know a few guys running solid mounts with out issues so far, both g bodies and some camaros. hasn't ever been a topic. you could call TNT or email them and ask. i would think you may get cracks if you don't get and keep them torqued down. mike


President Wicked Rides/Wicked Montes Georgia chapter
#818206 - 08/19/10 09:19 PM Re: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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John S Offline
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Here are a couple of pictures from my 86 Monte Carlo GM Service Manual.
In the first picture can anyone tell me what the difference is between a model 37 & Model 80?

I also did not find any real information on the rad support bushings.





Now, here is a picture of the busshing currently installed in my Monte. I showed this to mark (Map) and he was astonished at the gap between the rad support and the frame rail (3.5") Can someone else take a picture of their and post it up for comparison.



1986 Monte Carlo SS, 427 SBC,
T56 6spd, Moser M9 3:70
SC&C G5,, Spohn Tubular A arms,
Pirelli P Zero 275-40x17 rear, 245-45x17 front
#818645 - 08/22/10 02:10 AM Re: body bushings [Re: John S]  
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86_SS Offline
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i can try to get a pic of mine tomorrow.. im in the process of putting the doors and fenders back on the car..the parts car i bought and also my 86 SC has a descent size gap like that. it seems to me like adding/removing washers is how you adjust the fender so that it is straight and level with the rest of the body?

also while im thinking about it, i know that when you go to gap everything you start from the quarter panel/back of the door then work to the front of the door/rear of fender so my question is about how much of a gap should there be between the quarter panel/rear of door and the front of door/rear of fender? thanks

Last edited by 86_SS; 08/22/10 02:15 AM.

86 Monte SS - blackside - sbc350, 700-R4, 7.5" open dif - blazer spindle/brake upgrade w/ stainless braided lines, tubular upper a-arms, 1" front lowering springs, jeep steering shaft, electric fans, serpentine swap, 4" fiberglass hood
#819235 - 08/24/10 09:51 PM Re: body bushings [Re: 86_SS]  
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John S Offline
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Spencer,
I am currently on the road in north Carolina but I can scan the page from my manual when I get home. There is a page that lists all the tolerances for the body panel gaps. I'll be home this coming weekend if you can wait that long.


1986 Monte Carlo SS, 427 SBC,
T56 6spd, Moser M9 3:70
SC&C G5,, Spohn Tubular A arms,
Pirelli P Zero 275-40x17 rear, 245-45x17 front
#819300 - 08/25/10 12:44 AM Re: body bushings [Re: John S]  
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MAP Offline
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Hi John S,

"37" Definitely applies to the MCSS, but "80," by inference (and by studying the picture,) I believe applies to the El Camino.

I commented in a PM that this gap is about 1" in my Malibu (just sold, incidentally,) and about 1.5" in the 1981 MC I have, and supported on jackstands at the corners of the frame inside the wheel locations - that is, with the front end of the frame drooping under sag.

With the bushing removed, the vertical stiffness in this gap is amazingly low, and illustrates just how floppy the frame and body are, although the body measures about 3x stiffer here in a vertical sense than the frame. Even so, the difference between a 1" gap and a 3.5" gap is beyond any reasonable range I can explain.

Best,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 08/25/10 12:48 AM.
#819317 - 08/25/10 01:26 AM Re: body bushings [Re: MAP]  
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1 Slow SS Offline
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I have had quiet some G bodies in my time. And the worst core support gap I can recall is 2.250. But that car was a front end wreck car and was my previous build (slow).

Last edited by 1 slow ss; 08/25/10 01:29 AM.

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