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#606947 - 09/19/08 10:00 AM New Qjet issues & setting dwell
Monte_ExpreSS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 3701
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Just bought a new Qjet for the SS, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...em=370042399510 & I'm having some issues with it. It's not exactly as shown, the built me a slightly modified unit to better suit the cars setup.
First off, it runs very, very good, but if I leave the car idling for over a minute or so, the check engine light is coming on with a code 45, o2 sensor/ rich exaust. Obviously, it wasn't doing this before I swapped carbs. The 02 sensor is new as well. Any ideas?
Second, I wanted to check the dwell on it, but I'm not 100% sure how. I have a dwell meter with positive & negative aligator clips on it. I know I'm to connect it to the green lead that comes off the carb, but which one do I connect, negative or positive?
Thanks, for any responses guys, I really would like to get this dialed in soon, as I have a short road trip coming up with the car.
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#606986 - 09/19/08 11:39 AM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: Monte_ExpreSS]
87ChooChoo Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1386
Loc: las Vegas, NV
Connect the positive from the dwell meter to the Green connector. Connect the negative to Ground.

Sounds like you may be running rich. The Dwell meter will tell you a lot. Should be around 32-35 on the 6 cyl scale.

There are more posts on the site that go into more detail.
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#606987 - 09/19/08 11:40 AM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: Monte_ExpreSS]
85_SS Offline
Moderator
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 15017
Loc: Ontario, Canada
If you don't have a scanner (ideal) then I'm guessing the positive lead on the dwell would go to the green test connector, and the negative on any ground. Sounds like your MCS and/or AIB may be in need of adjustment.
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#607041 - 09/19/08 02:50 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: 85_SS]
Monte_ExpreSS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 3701
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Ok, I thought that's how I was to hook up the dwell meter. But when I do, I get no reading??
I adjusted the idle mixture screws in, they were 4 turns out. That seems exessive to me, so I have them set to 2 1/2 out now & tuned the IAC & the car actually runs even better. However, I'm still getting the check engine light when left idling.
I can clearly tell that it's running rich even after my adjustments because it's blowing black out the exaust.
This was the companies "modified" E4ME unit, maybe it's just too rich on the idle curcuit. It might just be too much carb for the motor?
I'm gonna give the place I bought it from a call & see what they say.
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#607080 - 09/19/08 04:44 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: Monte_ExpreSS]
87ChooChoo Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1386
Loc: las Vegas, NV
Turn on the ignition, but don't start the car. You should hear rapid clicking coming from the MCS solenoid on the Front Passenger side of the carb. Since you are getting no reading from your dwell meter, my guess is the MCS is not functioning. Could be a bad MCS, or a bad connection.

HTH
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85 El Camino Choo Choo with L31 350 Crate, TPI, Serp, TES Headers, GN 200-4r, 3.73 8.5 GN Posi, Acura Buckets, '04 GP Console, Electric Mirrors, Electronic HVAC, ZQ8 wheels, Blazer front brakes, LS1 rear brakes, and more....
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#607144 - 09/19/08 08:31 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: 87ChooChoo]
Monte_ExpreSS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 3701
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Yes, the MCS is clicking, one of the first things I checked. I'm not really sure why I can't get a dwell reading though.
I adjusted the mixture several times but the light still comes on & it's still blowing out black smoke.
I contacted the company & we descided that I'm sending it back. They tryed to tell me it was the O2 sensor needing replacement, but it never triggered the light before this & now that I put the original carb back on it doesn't do it either. + the 02 is only a couple months olds. They sayed the mods they do on it really shouldn't affect idle richness much, if any over the stock settings. That leads me to beleive something must be off internally. I must say though that it's been nothing but a pleasure to deal with this company so far.
We'll see what happens, The're going to send me a stock style rebuild unit. I'll keep everyone updated when the replacement arrives.



Edited by Monte_ExpreSS (09/19/08 08:37 PM)
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#607196 - 09/19/08 10:45 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: Monte_ExpreSS]
PirateSteve66 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 136
Loc: North Babylon , NY
I bought A e4me from I-5 auto earlier this year. Didnt know they sold them on ebay to.
Well it was suppose to have all new parts in it. It looked really nice on the out side. When i put it on my car it started up but i could not set the dwell either. I have had alot of trouble with theses carbs in the past and have taking them apart so many times i be i can do it blind folded . May be not but you get the point . I was so fed up I took it apart and guess what?
The only new part was the TPS . The float wasnt even set. One of the primary needle valves only came up half way.
I have alot of carb parts . So I fixed it myself . Even did al of the mods that are listed in the Haynes rochester book.
I didnt have the patience to send it back after all the work I have done to my car since last Oct of 07.
I can tell you I was pissed it was the second rebuilt carb I bought this year the first from another company and it was a lemon too.
Now I can set the dwell . My idle mixture screw are out 3 3/4 turns . If i turn them in anymore i cant get the dwell to get p to 30 degrees . I dont have the 305 . Its a 355 roller cam motor . Mild performance COMP cam. Edlebrock performer intake, Accel distributer and 50.000 volt coil,Recently took out power steering and installed manual chevy s- 10 steering box and dual Intrepid fans a little over a week before that i dove 80 miles to montauk Point and got 20 miles to gallon but around town it sucks it up.
I think if i can get the mixture screws in more it would do better around town but any less than 3 3/4 turns and i get a lean idle miss.
I had no problem getting my idle mixture screws set to 2 1/2 turns with the 305.
Send it back and get your money back. I wish you luck finding somone who can build you a decent carb . Maybe one of the other SS owners here knows where you can get on that works with no hassles .
I forgot to mention I bought one 3 yrs ago to and I had to fix that one too . 3 carbs and 3 differnt rebuilders .I am done with buying rebuilts an hoping they work....ARGH !
Good luck , I wish you nothing but success in finding one.
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#607238 - 09/20/08 12:40 AM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: PirateSteve66]
mmc427ss Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 01/14/00
Posts: 2462
Loc: Pottstown, Pa
One problem with the CCC carb is it needs to be tuned while the engine is running. The dwell is a balancing between the idle air bypass, idle mixture screws, and where the rich and lean stops are set. These settings along with float height, (fuel pressure also), idle vacuum quality will effect idle mixture in particular.

If you can smell it being that rich at idle something is not right. Idle mixture screws will be in the 3 to 3 1/2 turn range, you should see no more than 6 threads showing at the IAB.

By hooking a GOOD dwell meter, red terminal to the green connector and the black to a good ground on the engine, on the 6 cyl scale you should be able to read the dwell. A scanner works much better, it will allow you to set up the TPS also which may be way out of range. Check to see if the IAB cover and TPS plugs have been reinstalled.

Another problem with rebuilders is whether they bush the primary throttle shaft correctly. Vacuum signal can be lost if the new bushing don't conform to the shape of the bores. This will show up as a very lean idle conditon and the CCC will go full rich to try and conteract the lean codition. Learned that lesson about 6 years ago.
Bob

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#607287 - 09/20/08 09:16 AM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: mmc427ss]
Monte_ExpreSS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 3701
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Interesting Steve66. Not nessesarily what I wanted to hear, but good to know. It really is getting to be impossible to find anybody who even knows what a carb is anymore, locally anyway. Then tell them it's THIS carb. That's why I figured I'd give I5 a shot. RatPack had some pretty good things to say about them before I purchased it. I guess I just have to wait & see.

The IAB & TPS covers are not installed, & I was trying to adjust the IAB along with the mixture screws. I just had that looming feeling that something more wasn't right.

MMC427ss, your last comment about them not bushing the throttle shaft correctly seems like it could be a definite possibility.

I think in the mean time, I might pick up a scanner. Anyone want to reccomend a good, afordable unit?


Edited by Monte_ExpreSS (09/20/08 09:17 AM)
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#607399 - 09/20/08 04:35 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: mmc427ss]
PirateSteve66 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 136
Loc: North Babylon , NY
Ok so your saying idle mixture screwa should be set at 3 - 3 1/2 turns ist that for a 350 motor ? My #05 ran great set at 2 1/2 turns . Got 17 mpg around town .
Im thinking amybe if i play with the TPS i can get it to 2 1/2 - 3 turns . I had a Problem with my TPS If i set it at ,48 volts i would get a code I think it was code 41 lean mixture present . So I just kept turn TPS screw out Until light went out and transmission went into overdrive at 40 mpg. I can probably adjust it beter withouth the check engine light coming on. Just cant figure out why when i set it to .48 volts its causing that. I have tried other TPS 's .and got he same results.
I was able to get my idle mixture screws to 3 1/2 this morning from 3 3/4 and was able to get dwell to 30 degrees.
I should leave it there and see what happens with the gas mileage around town . Like I said before in my last post .. It does 20 mpg on highway maybe alittle more no that i tok out the clutch fan. but around town it can go as low a 10 mpg.
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#607594 - 09/21/08 09:42 AM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: PirateSteve66]
PirateSteve66 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 136
Loc: North Babylon , NY
Here is a post that i found in Super Chevy magazine ............


I PLAN ON SWAPPING OUT A 305 CARB MOTOR, WITH A 350 CARB MOTOR BOTH ARE 1987'S CAN I USE THE SAME COMPUTER WITH A SUPER-CHIP OR DO I NEED A COMPUTER FROM A 350

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Post Reply
waynep712
My first time was in a Chevy | Posts: 209 | Joined: 12/07 Posted: 03/13/08
09:03 PM
if you are using the E4ME feedback quadrajet carb and going from 305 to 350... you need to find a real 350 carb... they all look alike... only the part numbers and jets are differnt.

i have hurd that the last iron block cad with the 6.0 feedback carb jets and metering rods can be used on hotter 350s and still use the feedback carb......i think it was a 1981 deville california emission...

it has been a while since i took one of those carbs apart... i used to live and breath rebuilding q jets on normal cars..
i would imagine that if you had the proper ajusting tools and a scan tool or dwell meter you should be able to ream the primary jets out a tiny bit at a time until it is tuneable... be aware that it took a 7 million dollar flow bench almost 20 minutes a carb to let the computer to ajust those carbs to run good and pass emission...

tools needed... torx bit sets... 1 inch fuel nut wrench, idle mixture screw flexable tools(2), float height dipstick.(this goes down the bowl vent to measure the amount of float height on one side and amount of travel on the mixture solenoid plunger in another hole through the carb top...4/32 max travel... lean mixture setting tool, (this goes under the solenoid lever to ajust the stop height) a tool to ajust the rich stop from the top.... another for the throttle position sensor height...
and a tool with a j hook to set the air bleed in the top cover...thexton makes most of them.. and most autoparts stores have the idle mixture screw flex tools in stock...
here is a link to a page with the hard to find part numbers for feedback Q jet set up tools..
http://www.chevyasylum.com/tech/carbtool.html

wait... this is complacated... it is hard... .... this is not... it only takes some practice and understanding of what is going on....

since the primarys needles are commanded to bounce up and down at 10 cycles per second... the computer can command them to stay up longer for a richer mixture or down longer for a lean mixture...

you can raise or lower the height of the needles travel to ajust the fuel mixture a bit to take up for worn motors...

there is a green connector near the carb usually on a green wire that is not connected to anything..

that can be hooked up to a old style dwell meter set to six cylinder scale to read the amount of dwell the computer is commanding the carb to ***

with the idle mix screws set at 4 or 4-1/4 turns out each... warm the motor till operating temp ... (192/195F thermostat please) read the idle dwell readings.. should be 28 to 35 degrees...


bring the motor up to 2500 rpms... and the dwell should be 35 to 40 degrees of dwell...

you can raise the lean limit screw through the top of the carb... a double d tool not the air bleed with a screwdriver... the air bleed is for fine tuning..

this is like balancing on a ball... a little here and a little there... and since you are changing the displacment it is going to be way harder... which is why i think the orignal 350 carb or the 368/6.0L cad jets...


if you need more info let me know... i will be watching... i would think that most of the better carb shops will have a proper jetted feedback carb that should bolt on without too much ajusting.. as long as you have installed all the necessory sensors...


and feedback carbs will not run well with any exhaust leaks before the oxygen sensor... fools the computer into thinking the mixture is beyond it aibility to control.....

oh ... and be sure that all the computer grounds are properly installed... clean and tight.... they all come out of the computer harness.....

and for others... the harness comes out with the motor... get under the passenger side of the dash... unhook the ecm... the connector to the dash side.. and the u shapped plastic lock on the plastic elbow...

the harness pushes straight out through the hole in the firewall.... lets you get all the ground wires on tight .. some are on the back of the heads.. and hard to get too...


the computer should work....

and .. when the 305's were properly tuned and the feedback carb ajusted they could pull down 22 to 23 mpg if you kept your foot out of it... i don't know what a properly built 350+ would *** just don't go crazy in the cam department... feedback carbs like a lot of vacuum...

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#607613 - 09/21/08 11:24 AM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: PirateSteve66]
supernova455 Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 4327
Loc: tampa, fl usa
A "350" carb is not needed when doing the 305-350 swap in the SS's. Just a little creating adjusting to the IAB, & MCS. Secondary side, maybe rods and hangers, then adjust air valve spring. Use stock computer and chip. use WINALDL to watch in "real-time" what is going on with laptop, it will show all data as it happens, really cool.

This is what I did to mine, and Im running the 2050 cam, very lopy idle,, 17" vacuum,

Supernova455

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#607759 - 09/21/08 10:02 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: supernova455]
PirateSteve66 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 136
Loc: North Babylon , NY
Ive changed my secondaries to CK rods . .When I did the other mods.
Just for the hell of it becuase I can never leave things be. LOL
I always had what felt to be a lean idle miss and it would only go away when I set the idle mixture screws to 4 turns .But I always thought that was to much. Even at 3 3/4 turns I would have a miss. Ive gone over all my vacuum hoses and no leaks . Even sprayed starter fluid by throttle shaft bushings and no leaks there.
So this morning I set mixture screw at 4 turns and adjusted dwell to 32 - 35 . I usually watch my gas guage move while driving around town ( it usually moves fast) . Now it has not moved at all around town today . Maybe just a needle with on the fuel guage .
I dont smell any gas and tail pipes arent black with soot.No more miss in the engine.
I Hope it stays this way .

Dont really know anything about Cam Specs. These are mine


Description

Part Number: Grind Number:
Lifter Type: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Engine Family: Chevrolet 262-400 c.i. 8 cyl. 1955-1998
Description: Hydraulic Roller-Mild performance applications, very good mid-range, 3.23-3.73 gears.
Cam Family: XTREME Energy™ 1987-1998 305-350 Originally Equipped With Hydraulic Roller Camshaft, Except LT1 and LT4.
Specifications Intake Exhaust
RPM-Range: 1200 to 5200 Valve Lash: HYD
Valve Timing: 0.006 Duration: Intake 264, Exhaust 270
Lobe-Center Angle: Duration @ .050" Lift:
Intake Centerline: 106

Valve Lift: Intake 0.487 , Exhaust 0.495
Lobe Lift: Intake 0.325 ,Exhaust 0.33


Valve Timing @ 0.006" Lift: Open Close
Intake 26 BTDC 58 ABDC


Exhuast open 69 BBDC close 21 ATDC









Edited by Steve66 (09/21/08 10:34 PM)
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#607980 - 09/22/08 05:38 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: PirateSteve66]
PirateSteve66 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 136
Loc: North Babylon , NY
Originally Posted By: Steve66
Ive changed my secondaries to CK rods . .When I did the other mods.
Just for the hell of it becuase I can never leave things be. LOL
I always had what felt to be a lean idle miss and it would only go away when I set the idle mixture screws to 4 turns .But I always thought that was to much. Even at 3 3/4 turns I would have a miss. Ive gone over all my vacuum hoses and no leaks . Even sprayed starter fluid by throttle shaft bushings and no leaks there.
So this morning I set mixture screw at 4 turns and adjusted dwell to 32 - 35 . I usually watch my gas guage move while driving around town ( it usually moves fast) . Now it has not moved at all around town today . Maybe just a needle with on the fuel guage .
I dont smell any gas and tail pipes arent black with soot.No more miss in the engine.
I Hope it stays this way .

Dont really know anything about Cam Specs. These are mine


Description

Part Number: Grind Number:
Lifter Type: Hydraulic Roller Lifter Engine Family: Chevrolet 262-400 c.i. 8 cyl. 1955-1998
Description: Hydraulic Roller-Mild performance applications, very good mid-range, 3.23-3.73 gears.
Cam Family: XTREME Energy™ 1987-1998 305-350 Originally Equipped With Hydraulic Roller Camshaft, Except LT1 and LT4.
Specifications Intake Exhaust
RPM-Range: 1200 to 5200 Valve Lash: HYD
Valve Timing: 0.006 Duration: Intake 264, Exhaust 270
Lobe-Center Angle:110 Duration @ .050" Lift: intake 212 exhaust 218
Intake Centerline: 106

Valve Lift: Intake 0.487 , Exhaust 0.495
Lobe Lift: Intake 0.325 ,Exhaust 0.33


Valve Timing @ 0.006" Lift: Open Close
Intake 26 BTDC 58 ABDC


Exhuast open 69 BBDC close 21 ATDC







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#613977 - 10/14/08 09:26 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: PirateSteve66]
Monte_ExpreSS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 3701
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Just received my replacement carb from I5 & this one is running as it should. No more check engine light or rich condition.
I knew the first one had something more wrong than just what adjustments could correct. tuned the replacement & swapped out the secondary rods, but I'm still waiting on my scan tool to arrive & make sure everything is in spec.
Just letting everyone know incase anyone else is looking for a descent rebuilt unit.
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#614217 - 10/15/08 05:54 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: Monte_ExpreSS]
86ttop Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 9961
Loc: Colonial Beach, Va
Jonathan, thanks for posting back, good to see someone standing behind their products. Since I suck at carbs, I sent my SS carb to www.customrebuiltcarbs.com and got back a beautiful carb that performs like new. It is the original carb that is setup for a 350 and it's just fine. I have no idea what jets or anything else internally.
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#614277 - 10/15/08 09:24 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: 86ttop]
86MCSS86 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 304
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca
I also bought a carb from this seller and my carb makes the choke light go on. My prvious carb did not show a choke light. I tried contacting the seller but he never emailed me back. do you guys think it can be adjusted or might there be something wrong with the carb? If it can be adjusted how?

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#614310 - 10/15/08 11:19 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: 86MCSS86]
32v_dohc Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 926
Loc: my garage
Originally Posted By: GNX89
I also bought a carb from this seller and my carb makes the choke light go on. My prvious carb did not show a choke light. I tried contacting the seller but he never emailed me back. do you guys think it can be adjusted or might there be something wrong with the carb? If it can be adjusted how?


This is the choke heater. The first thing I would check for voltage at the wire. If you have 12V then check the heater housing interface. Most carb kits include a gasket for hot air chokes but it is not used on electrics as it insulates the ground path. Might be as simple as removing three screws and finding a gasket. If not replace the heater itself.

HTH

John

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#614498 - 10/16/08 06:51 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: 32v_dohc]
86MCSS86 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 304
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca
Where is the heater itself?

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#614502 - 10/16/08 06:58 PM Re: New Qjet issues & setting dwell [Re: 32v_dohc]
PirateSteve66 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 136
Loc: North Babylon , NY
After Irebuilt my e4me from I 5 auto it works great. But I to had thr choke light stay on . I checked with the key on engine not running I have 12 volts. So I was told that the sensor on the back of the engine block by the distributor contols the voltage of the choke wire . The Plug to that sensor has two wires. I know that the plug can go on either way but is probably suppose to go on one way . So i unplugged it turnrd around so the wire attach on the opposite sides of sensor. I turned key on ,engine off. Light came on .Started the engine the light went off and now my choke works better than new . Step on peddle 3 times start engine runs at 1500rpm and kicks down in 3 - 4 minutes .. smile
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