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#576161 - 06/11/08 02:21 PM STICKY: LS series engine swap - 78-88 G-Body
BRPhotrods Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Cumming, GA
To let you know a little about www.BRPhotrods.com, My company started after we built the orange and white 1969 Convertible Camaro for Year One. Once the car was featured on the cover of Hot Rod Magazine, we were flooded for request for LS conversion kits and we re geared the company to tailor to the needs of the growing LS conversion aftermarket.


At BRP we keep your GM all GM by evolving your classic GM to a fuel-efficient ground pounding Muscle Rod using cutting edge GM products. All kits include everything needed to install a LS engine with full step-by-step directions and a support for any conversion kit if any questions arise during the build. These kits are made so that any one can throw a LS series engine into their vehicle and enjoy the benefits of better fuel mileage and a more reliable drive train from a budget 5.3L build to a extreme LSX powered monster. With the new GM Carburetor kits a LS conversion can become a project that almost anyone can take on in their home garage


Keep it all GM


Motor options

I have a guy at the shop who bought a $300 5.3L from 2005 Silverado with 33K from ebay put a used Z06 cam and $180 ebay headers and got 326RWHP and 323RW Torque with 87 oct at 26 MPG and these 5.3L are everywhere and cheap. The truck motors are filling up salvage yards because they last well over 200K miles so there is not enough demand for replacement motors in stock applications. This means these are very reasonably priced buys for great power and fuel mileage. Car Craft recently did a built with a low compression LQ4 with GM L92 heads and got over 500HP. I have scene several 5.3L with under 10K miles with motor and trans for around $1000-$1500 and the 07+ are all aluminum with pre production Z06 heads and a higher compression ratio. Itís getting to the point that a LS swap is close to the cost of buying a GEN I 383 crate motor. I also deal a lot with the guys who run most the LS salvage yards and do engine locating services for any style LS engine from a low buck 4.8L to a complete LS7 Z06 drive train. Or you can always go to your local GM dealership and pick up a new crate motor with a warranty



Getting it in the car

All the new Gen III and Gen IV LS series engines feature a new bolt patern on the block for the motor mounts so none of the tradition methods will work in adapting it to an older application.





The early plate adapter kits only allowed for the older style motor mounts to be bolted onto the LS engine new mount pattern. All this does it align the engine in the stock location of a traditional small block when you use the stock frame mount the plates recommend. This also does not take into consideration the stock accessories on the LS engines and why most plate kits require a lot of additional parts like such as aftermarket accessories or costly aftermarket oil pans to clear the stock frame.

BRP came up with the Muscle Rod line of LS conversion kits that feature a lifetime warranty on our brand new frame mounts, which feature the first rebuild able design of its kind (Patent Pending).




These kits come fully cad coater from the frame mounts to the cross member and feature Energy suspension polyurethane bushing. We offer different grades of Poly bushing to the customer as well as having an aluminum bushing option for those wanting a solid motor mount set up. The new mounts are lightweight compact and give the most clearance for hedders possible with the most options to tailor this kit to your cars specific needs. Each kit includes Motor brackets, Frame mounts, Cross member, Poly Trans mount, Grade 8 hardware so no mix matching parts its all included.


All of BRP kits are built around the GM LH8 oil pan and GM accessories.


Here are some fitment shots to show how it looks on the G-Body, the 1978-1982 G-Body have a slightly different conversion kit then the later 1983-1988 g-bodys.


The stock GM accessories fit from the corvette, F-body and GTO(with smaller F-Body alternator) without notching on the frame or stretching of the trans tunnel.



stock A/C clears



Alternator Clearance



Firewall Clearance



The T-56 and the 4L60 clear without having to modify the trans tunnel.




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#576162 - 06/11/08 02:22 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: BRPhotrods]
BRPhotrods Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Cumming, GA

Hedders

We have a lot of options on hedders options in our Muscle Rod line for these swaps from a ĺ length shorty with 1 ĺ primaries to a race 2in primary hedder stepped to 2 ľ with a 4in collector and everything in-between.





Heres a link to more info about the hedders

http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=575857#Post575857

Electronics

There are a lot of options to go on this route from rewiring the stock harness yourself or having a company like. Wait for me performance and Speartech both offer great rewiring services for the stock harness for a low cost wiring solution. GM sells new plug and play wiring kits that include the drive by wire pedal for all 03+ Gen IV motors. Along with GM electronic kits to run the coil packs with a carb or the Electronic transmissions without the ECU. AT BRP we are a vender for the GM performance products so if you need any help or info on any of GMs new LS products feel free to ask



Fuel Systems

More choices here on this part of the install as well from buying a new tank from a company like Ricks hot rod shop, to modifying your stock tank with a modern fuel pump. LS1tech.com has a lot of good write ups and guides for this portion of the install for addition help as well. Or run a carb on your engine with the stock tank and a LS engine running in a weekend with the least amount of work.



This is one of ricks tanks


Accessories



GM is now offering the C5 and C6 accessories as complete kits for under $900 for a compact design with OEM quality at a reasonable price.


This is only a very quick overview and a briefly touched on some of the big questions; Iím a big GM guy so I recommend keeping these conversions as much GM as possible. This will keep maintenances parts available at any local parts store and readily availably for a very long time. Ask me any questions you have about these conversions and Iíll be happy to help or at least guide you in the right direction of someone who can.

Thanks
Phil Brewer
BRPHotRods.com
770-751-0687

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#577077 - 06/14/08 08:41 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: BRPhotrods]
MY FYN 79 Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 9760
Loc: N/E WI
Nice post Phil.

In regards to engine setback, how close to the stock SBC position does this kit place the LS1 engine? If it does differ, which direction? I ask because I would like to retain the heavily built 2004-R trans in the car, and also the aluminum driveshaft I just had built for the 9 inch rear. Is this possible?
_________________________
~Jeremy~
79 Monte - Sold 5-11-13
Welcome Natalee Mae 3-16-12

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#577102 - 06/14/08 10:41 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: MY FYN 79]
whitess Offline
Member

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 1311
Loc: Frederick, CO
The truck (LM7 and LQ4) motors look like a lower cost option to the LSX motors, will the accessories work without having to notch the frame for the the A/C compressor? I've looked at pics of them but can't really tell how the A/C compressor is mounted. What are the prices on your conversion kit parts?
Thanks,
Larry.
_________________________
85 SS

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#577319 - 06/15/08 12:32 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: whitess]
baaboo Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 8604
Loc: Racine, WI
Jeremy, why not just put in the 6-speed auto? If I ever go the LS swap, thats what I'll do.
_________________________
1987 Aerocoupe, 383 Super Ram and 20-gallon custom aluminum tank. Car retired (for now) from open road racing, but I'm not.

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#577339 - 06/15/08 01:42 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: MY FYN 79]
ss4ever Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 12730
Loc: Shelbina, Missouri
Originally Posted By: MY FYN 79
In regards to engine setback, how close to the stock SBC position does this kit place the LS1 engine? If it does differ, which direction? I ask because I would like to retain the heavily built 2004-R trans in the car, and also the aluminum driveshaft I just had built for the 9 inch rear. Is this possible?



I could be wrong but I was thinking that LS engines will only work with LS designed transmissions, IIRC the flywheel/flexplate is mounted at a different depth than a standard sbc.
_________________________
1972 Monte Carlo, LS1/4L60E

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#577354 - 06/15/08 05:20 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: ss4ever]
MY FYN 79 Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 9760
Loc: N/E WI
Bob,

I'd like to use the 200 because its built stout and I own it, plus the aluminum driveshaft in the car was built this year also.

Randy, I believe you are correct. From what I've heard though, Hughes makes some kind of spacer that allows 1st gen auto transmissions to bolt up properly in regards to the converter. Also from what I've heard, only 4 bolts get used to bolt a 1st gen auto to an LS series motor. I havent really researched those points, just what I recall reading.
_________________________
~Jeremy~
79 Monte - Sold 5-11-13
Welcome Natalee Mae 3-16-12

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#577373 - 06/15/08 09:29 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: MY FYN 79]
85_SS Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 15028
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I forget the screen name at the moment, but someone here has an LS motor with a 200-4R. He used to have a T56, but went back to an auto, so it can be done. It's an 84 SS - I think the screen name is something close to 84LS1T56.
_________________________

1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
5.7 LITRE / TES Headers / SShaker Hood / WC T-5 5-Speed
1970 Pontiac GTO
Orbit Orange Judge Re-creation / YZ RAIII 400 / M21 4-Speed

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#577382 - 06/15/08 10:12 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: 85_SS]
84LS1T56SS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2700
Loc: Central, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: 85_SS
I forget the screen name at the moment, but someone here has an LS motor with a 200-4R. He used to have a T56, but went back to an auto, so it can be done. It's an 84 SS - I think the screen name is something close to 84LS1T56.


That would be me. The tranny will bolt up to the LS engine, but you won't have a bolt in the 2 oclock position. It won't hurt a thing that way. There are two types of flywheels for LS engines. A flat one and one that is actually bowed out away from the engine block. Some of them have two convertor patterns. I purchased one on ebay thats is bowed out and has both patterns. To make the convertor work with this flywheel, all you need is the spacer for the snout. Hughes makes it and it just pushes into the end of the crank and the convertor snout pushes into it when you bolt up the tranny. If your engine uses the flat flexplate, you have to get a .400 spacer that goes behind the flexplate. When you get into the 6 liter engines, flexplate type and spacer location gets to be like Russian Roulette. Some need the spacer behind the flexplate and the convertor will work, but some need the spacer on the outside of the flexplate for the convertor to work. You just have to do a lot of measuring to figure out which way to go.

The next problem is the TV cable hookup. If you use a 98 or 99 LS1 throttle body, you can use the kit made by Bowtie Overdrives called TV-EZ. Any other throttle body and you have to build a mounting point with the correct geometry. I spent a FEW hours building the mount and connection for my car because of the 90MM throttle body. Here is a pic of it.



_________________________

85 MCSS, 02 5.3/4L60E stock daily driver, (given to daughter-in-law)
84 MCSS, Another stock 5.3/60E.

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#577385 - 06/15/08 10:17 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: 84LS1T56SS]
85_SS Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 15028
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thanks Larry - I was pretty close!
_________________________

1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
5.7 LITRE / TES Headers / SShaker Hood / WC T-5 5-Speed
1970 Pontiac GTO
Orbit Orange Judge Re-creation / YZ RAIII 400 / M21 4-Speed

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#577386 - 06/15/08 10:19 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: 85_SS]
84LS1T56SS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2700
Loc: Central, Arkansas
I have my 9" almost ready to install. I'll be glad to get it in. I want to hit the track at least once the summer to see what the car will do.
_________________________

85 MCSS, 02 5.3/4L60E stock daily driver, (given to daughter-in-law)
84 MCSS, Another stock 5.3/60E.

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#577395 - 06/15/08 10:49 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: 84LS1T56SS]
rons87mcss Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 3955
Loc: Albion, Pa
Good read from top to bottom thumbs

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#578172 - 06/17/08 02:41 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: rons87mcss]
BRPhotrods Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Cumming, GA
Hey guys sorry it took me a little bit to get back here and post, Itís the first day back in the office since I got back from the Good Guys show in Atlanta.

Jeremy

With these kits you have the ability to set the engine where you want it. If you donít want to run A/C you have the option to slide the kit back a couple inches and I believe that will give you the ability to run the stock driveshaft. If you plan to run the A/C with no mods you slide it slightly forward of the stock SBC location. The Muscle Rod line of hedders are designed to give you the most flexibility for ether kind of install.

Larry,

The truck motors can be a great alternative and have all the same tech that the higher cost car LS series engines. I have a couple truck set ups here but I have not been able to get a stock compressor in shop to test for the trucks to test fit. I know all the car applications fit without any need to notch the K-member. It looks like it will clear the K-member its how the lines that run that Iím not sure about yet. As soon as I can find a truck A/C ill test it out and take some picks unless someone here has already done the install?

Conversion kits are 479.99 for ether the 78-82 or the 83-88 G-Body

The 6L80 is a great 6 speed auto and I have a line on a supply of 0 mile 6L80s from a GM train derailment if anyoneís thinking about going this route.

The LS engine can be used with any GM transmission from the power glide to the the 6L85-E with a spacer GM also sells one similar to the Hughes. For the older set ups a GM spacer is available for under $40 then redrill the OEM flexplate and use the existing mounting locations or GM also sells a complete adapter kit with a new flexplate and all needed parts and hardware for those wanting all new parts.

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#578201 - 06/17/08 04:06 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: BRPhotrods]
84supersport Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 4694
Loc: Louisville, KY
Far down the road i'll be talking to you guys. I'll be getting the 6.0L crate motor and a 6-speed. Not sure if I want the Corvette style intake or a MPI style but its deffinatley gotta be fuel injected. Thats atleast a few years down the road though. Im just enjoying the car for now.
_________________________
84 Monte SS stolen September 2012. 077 DFE Jefferson County KY plate. $2500 reward. Vortec headed 350ci, th350, 3:73 limited slip cast aluminum cover, Autometer gauges, Pro-Stick, 2.5" fiberglass hood.



Matt

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#578955 - 06/19/08 03:23 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: 84supersport]
BRPhotrods Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Cumming, GA
Something to keep in mind is the large supply of low mile pull out motors from wreaked vehicles. You can get complete pull outs for very reasonable prices. Even the HO LQ9 6.0L engines are only about $1500-$2000 with low miles and it only weighs about 85lbs more then a LS2 and all the same tech. The cost of these has come down and these LS engines make it where you can enjoy the classic style of the Montes with the power and fuel efficient of GMs modern Muscles without having to break the bank.

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#579033 - 06/19/08 07:57 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: BRPhotrods]
rdm85ss Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 385
Loc: Holbrook , Ma.
I did my swap about 4 years ago. I have about 24k on the swap and have had no problems at all. I drive my car everywhere and get great fuel mileage and runs great at the track. I wanted a reliabe setup and have definteley got it with this. :>
_________________________
Ron
85 Monte SS- 2004 LS6/02 T56,w/9" rearend,Slowhawk tuned, 390hp/364lb-ft RWHP
3575lbs-11.74@114.6mph
BACK IN THE GAME!
DD 06 Cobalt SS/sc 14.78@97mph
http://cardomain.com/ride/2151623
http://slowhawkperformance.com
http://racecarsbyhalls.com

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#579263 - 06/20/08 02:13 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: 85_SS]
Vern Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 90
Loc: Dayton, OH
Please correct me if I make some mistakes or miss something. I am trying to put together a rough cost to a fairly specific conversion.

Phil, or anyone who has the answers.

Typically how much for a good condition running salvage yard c5/c6 5.7 LS1?
How much for the c5/c6 complete accessory kit including AC that you mentioned to use with a 5.3?
How much for the GM plug & play electronics kit for a fuel injected 5.3 to use with a 200-4r?
Anybody know where & how much you can typically find an 98/99 LS1 throttle body for?

Thanks!
_________________________
87 Grand National Buick 3.8, TE-60 turbo, Stretch Intrcoolr, 42.5 injectors, 3000 stall lockup converter, Meth/water injection, 22mpg
87 OLDS 442 509ci Cadillac, Street portd heads, 230@50 528 lift cam, Headrs, Billet drum 200-4R, 2800 stall lockup convertr, Electric fans/intank fuel pump, 17mpg hwy, Both 2 run 11.8ish 113+ on pumpgas

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#579267 - 06/20/08 02:32 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Bod [Re: Vern]
Tony_SS Offline
10+ Year
Member

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 1840
Loc: Washington, MO
Big Props to Phil for all the info. This would make a great sticky! The LSx swap is a no brainer nowadays. I can't wait to get to that point!

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#579318 - 06/20/08 04:44 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: BRPhotrods]
Vern Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 90
Loc: Dayton, OH
Ok I got on the phone with BRP and got my questions answered. Here is my rough plan / budget without AC.

BRP kit $479
with oil pan $249
coated 1 7/8 headers $709
used LQ9 6.0 & harness $1,500+
new f-body altenator $150
used LS1 car intake & throttle body $100
Re-wire of truck harness $350
200-4R/700-R4 flywheel spacer $40
Bowtie EZ LS1 TV kit $150
New GN fuel tank E-bay by Tamraz with shipping $247
Still would need hanger from old GN/Ttype or modify stock hanger like www.robertpowersmotorsports.com
Walbro GSS 340m fuel pump www.racetronix.com under GN $100
NAPA 97-04 Vette fuel filter & regulator $35? Need confirmation on this one.
Plus return line & fittings

In my case I have a built 200-4R, driveshaft, & 8.5 rear just need gbody roller. Don't know what else I am missing. If you need AC you can buy a complete new GM accessory kit/serpentine system for $900 and subtract out the $100 F-body altenator but the engine sits furthar forward and will need a custom driveshaft. I totaled $4,109 so far without tax shipping misc. I did the Cad conversion for about $500 less and that is a completely fresh motor and it makes more power but it will never get the mileage. My self I would also still have to factor in some port work & cam kit.


Edited by Vern (06/20/08 04:46 PM)
_________________________
87 Grand National Buick 3.8, TE-60 turbo, Stretch Intrcoolr, 42.5 injectors, 3000 stall lockup converter, Meth/water injection, 22mpg
87 OLDS 442 509ci Cadillac, Street portd heads, 230@50 528 lift cam, Headrs, Billet drum 200-4R, 2800 stall lockup convertr, Electric fans/intank fuel pump, 17mpg hwy, Both 2 run 11.8ish 113+ on pumpgas

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#579365 - 06/20/08 05:50 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: Vern]
whitess Offline
Member

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 1311
Loc: Frederick, CO
Phil,
Thanks, let us know how the truck accessories work out.
Larry.
_________________________
85 SS

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#580198 - 06/23/08 09:58 AM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: whitess]
BRPhotrods Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Cumming, GA
GM part number 102S9146

This is the part number to the corvette fuel filter (FPR), is from a 1999 C5 Corvette.

The FBR will require fittings to adapt to traditional 3/8" lines and 5/8" return lines. One option is Russell performance


Fittings needed to adapt
(2) 3/8" fittings, part number RUS-639210 or RUS-640850
For the tank to regulator line and the fuel line connecting to the fuel rails
(1) 5/8" fitting part number RUS-640860
return to the fuel tank from the regulator

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#580300 - 06/23/08 03:09 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: BRPhotrods]
BRPhotrods Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Cumming, GA
Iím now offering a LS engine locating service. I can have all these or any motor youíre looking for dropped shipped to you. Please include where you are located for shipping info or if you plan to pick up local. This is just an small sample of whats available please contact me with what your looking for.

All include wiring harness and factory accessories.



2001 5.3 20-75 miles no trans $900-1000 (11 engines)

2002 5.3 30-50 miles no trans $900-1000 (5 engines)
2005 5.3K 25K miles no trans $1100 (1 engine)

2004 6.0L LQ4 2wd 25K miles with the 2wd 4l80 ($2750)

2005 5.3L 23K miles all aluminum with 4l60 2wd ($2900)

2001 LS1 (LS6 intake) 4l60E with 45K miles ($3250)


Thanks Phil
770-751-0687


Edited by BRPhotrods (06/23/08 03:11 PM)

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#580407 - 06/23/08 07:57 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: BRPhotrods]
MY FYN 79 Offline
Moderator
10+ Year

Member

Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 9760
Loc: N/E WI
Phil,

How many miles do you feel is "too many" for swapping in and pounding on a 6.0 with a stock short block? There are several 03-04 6.0 dropouts with around 70k at a local salvage yard for a very attractive price.

If I did this, the least I would do is a cam swap before the motor went in. The idea of swapping on some L92 heads is tempting for the money too. Eventually it would be a stroker. So, would a 70K short block be OK for the time being if I at least changed out the timing set when I was in it changing the cam?
_________________________
~Jeremy~
79 Monte - Sold 5-11-13
Welcome Natalee Mae 3-16-12

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#580420 - 06/23/08 08:25 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: MY FYN 79]
Onebadbowtie86 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4334
Loc: Traverse City Michigan
i cant se why a 70k mile shortblock wouldnt be ok, these motors go for a million miles! i had a 2003 2500hd with the 6.0 in it, and it was a good motor, just hard on fuel, but at 3k miles, the oil was still golden looking, same with my 2003 5.3 i currently own, doesnt use/burn a drop of oil, very efficient/clean engines! plus they have 6 bolt mains! guys are running big horsepower out of stock ls1 shortblocks also, so id assume a 6.0 to be the same. i was looking at a buddys fresh 406, but im pretty sure im going with a carbed 6.0! just need to find out more about them
_________________________

'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
DONE!

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#580434 - 06/23/08 08:55 PM Re: LS series engine swap info for the 78-88 G-Body [Re: Onebadbowtie86]
Onebadbowtie86 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4334
Loc: Traverse City Michigan
will the truck accesories work if you dont use the a/c? that would help alot!!!
_________________________

'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
DONE!

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