MonteCarloSS.com
MonteCarloSS.com

CELEBRATING 20 YEARS!

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#493219 - 10/16/07 02:00 AM CS144 Alternator Conversion  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 555
jac1599 Offline
Member
jac1599  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 555
Bartlesville, OK
CS144 Alternator Conversion
___________________________________________________________________

Tired of 85 to 95 AMPs of power? Well this simple swap will get you 140 AMPs of juice to power most everything any regular driver will need. With my aftermarket CD player (no subs), headlights, A/C, and wipers going, I am still hitting over 12.5 volts. With my old SI alternator I was lucky to hit 12.5 with nothing on!
___________________________________________________________________

Supplies

CS144 Alternator - you can get these from any parts store if you ask for an alternator for any of the following:
(1994-96) Buick Roadmaster 5.7L
(1993-96) Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham (RWD) 5.7L
(1993-96) Chevrolet Caprice 4.3L, 5.7L
(1995-96) Chevrolet Impala 5.7L
(1992-95) Chevrolet Lumina APV Van 3.8L
(1992-95) Oldsmobile Silhouette 3.8L
(1992-95) Pontiac Trans Sport 3.8L
AC Delco part 10463338.
Picture - CS144 alternator:


Wiring harness/adapter - if you have a parts store that knows anything you should be able to go in and ask for an "SI to CS conversion harness" otherwise just go to the dealer and ask for:
Delco 8078/GM 12102921 if you have a volt gauge or
Delco 8077/GM 12083462 if you have an "idiot" light.


Picture - Wiring harnes (8078) (note the resistors in the wires)


Optional:
Alternator bracket kit - I've read many reports about the CS alternator not fitting properly so that the user is not able to tighten the brackets all the way. In my install I was able to install everything perfectly with no fit problems at all. You can go chrome universal (Spectre or Mr. Gasket)
Picture - my stock bracket:

Picture - Chrome bracket:

_________________________________________________________________

Directions

1. Unhook negative battery cable.
2. Loosen alternator and remove belt.
3. Remove alternator.
4. Change alternator pulleys if necessary (use an impact wrench)
5. If you are using the stock brackets, the arm on the lower bracket will not bolt on to the alternator. That is OK. The lower bracket is used just to support the weight of the alternator. Simply loosely attach the top of the alternator so you don't have to hold it up. Next put the lower bracket in between the block and alternator, slip the long bolt through and tighten into the original hole on the block.
Pictures - lower bracket:


6. Loop belt around all necessary pulleys and back around alternator pulley.
TIP: Use the best belt you can find. When I first did this swap, I used a 5 dollar belt. Every time my alternator kicked in my belt would squeak for a few seconds. I went back and got a Gates belt (23 bucks) and no more squeaks.
7. This is easiest if you have two people. The CS style alternators are meant to be in cars that have serpentine belt systems so the top hole is not threaded like the stock alternator. You will need a big bolt and a big nut (I don't know what size specifically is needed, I just found something in my garage). Next pull back on the alternator and have your buddy tighten the nut/bolt with two wrenches.
8. Plug in wiring harness and reconnect the tickle/trigger wire.
Picture - Wiring harness:

9. Reconnect battery wires.

Picture - Final install:

Last edited by 85_SS; 01/28/08 10:52 PM.

1987 SS, 355 TPI and a work in progress
#493291 - 10/16/07 11:19 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: jac1599]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 273
555ss Offline
Member
555ss  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 273
NH
Be careful of the plastic fans and high rpms.
I had one come apart at the track and it cut though the hood and beat up both fenders, due to high rpm (8000) with standard drive pulleys the steel fan is a direct replacement.
I don't know the part # but I called powermaster and they sent me a metal replacement that bolted right up that looks like the stock fan from the older alternator.


84 Monte SS 555 BBC on spray runs 8.40's at 160+

#493327 - 10/16/07 02:30 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: jac1599]  
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,207
SickSpeedMonte Offline
15+ Year
SickSpeedMonte  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,207
MD
Nice writeup!

Another way that I have used to tighten the belt is to use a pry bar and that circular hole in the top of the alternator bracket. Use a rag if you are afraid of marring your alternator and/or bracket.

#522466 - 01/16/08 04:03 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 14
steve 1961 Offline
Junior Member
steve 1961  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 14
maryland
when I put my cs-144 in I drilled and tapped a 3/8" x 1" piece of steel on the upper alt bolt and just used a regular wrench to tighten up. Steve

#565696 - 05/09/08 03:22 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: steve 1961]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 107
jons86 Offline
Member
jons86  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 107
greensboro,nc
what is the purpose of the resistors,and are they req'd?

#567697 - 05/15/08 09:21 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: jons86]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 555
jac1599 Offline
Member
jac1599  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 555
Bartlesville, OK
The resistors provide a "tickle" for the charging sensor. The alternator was designed for a car that has a "dummy" light, which provides resistance for that sensor. So, if your car has no dummy light, there is no resistance, so there has to be a resistor somewhere in the system to provide a load.


1987 SS, 355 TPI and a work in progress
#653332 - 02/26/09 04:24 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: jac1599]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,384
Atl_Monte Offline
Member
Atl_Monte  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,384
Atlanta, GA
What if I have the plug from the donor car and want to merge the harnesses what do I do for resistors? And which of the two small wires do I use?


1988 Monte Carlo SS fully customizedm, cowl hood, Kandy paint w/ ghost flames, power sunroof, 24" rims 327 SB - SOLD

1986 Monte Carlo SS 350 create motor, cowl hood, shaved handles & trunk, power sun roof, digital dash
http://youtu.be/aKZI0FhUP6U

1984 H/O Cutlass lightning rods 8.5" rear LT1 and C5 brake conversion under way 24" rims
#669521 - 04/08/09 04:27 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Atl_Monte]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,087
novaderrik Offline
Member
novaderrik  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,087
Ashby, MN
an upper alt bracket from a car or truck with HD charging will bolt right up- they have at he bigger 14SI alternator that puts out like 120 amps. look under the hoods of Caprice cop cars and station wagons. you can even get the spacer thing on the big lower bolt and bolt it right up to the newer alternator if you want it to look really stock.
if you want a bolt in alt that has a threaded upper hole, then get one for a 97 Olds Aurora. they are 144amps and have a bigger lug on the back for the charging wire.


http://good-times.webshots.com/album/568279446VvVgWO

86 MC SS- rough, but fixable. looks like something Dale Sr might have driven back to the transport after a race at Bristol.
84 regal T Type with 64,000 miles and almost no options
74 Monte Carlo cruiser
#678232 - 04/29/09 04:55 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: novaderrik]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,150
WaSSted Offline
10+ Year
WaSSted  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,150
Kennewick
I may have to look into getting a different upper bracket.

My stock 1986 bracket works, HOWEVER I did not like how it fit.

I started installing the alternator by bolting it on with the bottom bolt and bracket (left loose).

I then installed the upper bracket and left the bolts finger tight. Next I tried rotating the alternator into position and no go... It hits the bracket.

I tried removing the bolt that holds the alternator bracket into the intake manifold. That helped but I didn't like only having two bolts holding the alternator in place. I then tried prying up on the upper bracket to make it fit, the move I moved it up the more the bracket moved forward. So I said heck with it and ran a bolt through and tightened it up. Well it didn't looks straight. So I ended up using the lower bolt as a guide for keeping the alternator straight and in place while I fooled around with the upper bracket. End result was three washers between the upper alternator bolt and the upper bracket. Now if anyone looks under my hood they probably will never know the difference. But it bugs me that I had to use three washers to keep the alternator straight.
I will be on the look out for a new set of brackets.

All in all it's still a great upgrade.


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#678722 - 04/30/09 10:40 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: WaSSted]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,862
Gruvin Offline
Moderator
15+ Year
Gruvin  Offline
Moderator
15+ Year

Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,862
Texas
Down at the bottom of the link below, you will find a wiring diagram for the ALT, you only need to add a 50 ohm 5 watt resistor to the L wire. This is a 25 cent resistor!! and the the adapters are like $20.00 plus $8-9.00 shipping now... HTHs

http://www.gilbertautoparts.com/ChevySmallBlockV8s/385turnkeyparts.cfm

Last edited by Gruvin84SS; 05/06/09 11:44 AM.

My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
[Linked Image]
87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#700667 - 07/05/09 07:55 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Gruvin]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 571
AndreB Offline
Member
AndreB  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 571
Milwaukee, Wi
im looking at getting 1 of these in a week. Im not sure i understand the whole resistor deal. The alternator wont work properly if there isnt a resistor? My volt gauge isnt being used right now and voltage isnt hooked up, can i jes bolt the new ALT up, not connect volt connector and be fine?


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#706958 - 07/25/09 08:45 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: AndreB]  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 974
BladeOfAnduril27 Offline
15+ Year
BladeOfAnduril27  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 974
Doylestown, PA
I just finished doing this upgrade this afternoon. Here are some things that I found as I went through that are not listed in the original post, but may be helpful to those considering this...

First, a question I had a while ago, you don't have to upgrade your battery cables to do this.

Seconds, it is possible to use the stock alternator bracket, however the spacer on the long bolt that goes between the alternator and the block is bolted to the stock alternator. You will have to unbolt it. It will not bolt to the CS style alternator, so just slip it over the long bolt. Also note that the upper bracket will have to be unbolted from the intake manifold. The CS alternator is larger that the SI, and you can't use the stock upper without unbolting it from the manifold. It may be possible to modify the bracket so that you can keep it bolted to the manifold, but I didn't bother trying and I'm satisfied with the tightness of the new alternator using the upper bracket without the manifold bolt.

Third, on the CS alternator I used (this may or may not be true of all CS alternators, I don't have access to another one to check), the stud on the back that you bolt the battery wire on to is larger than the one on the original SI alternator. Since the terminals are O ring contacts, I modified them by cutting the "O" with a pair of dikes and gently spreading the contacts open, into more of a "U" until they fit over the stud. I'm sure you could just replace the contacts with larger ones, but I didn't happen to have any on hand.

Overall this was an easy upgrade, and I completed it in about an hour and a half. I spent most of the time tightening the belt so that it wouldn't squeal under load.

I checked my battery with a multimeter when I finished, and it read 13v at idle, so I turned on the headlights, high beams, rear defrost, and AC on high. It only dropped to 12v (would drop to about 8.5v with the old alternator), and when I revved the engine in was right back to 13v. No more flickering headlights when the turn signal is on!!


~ Matt H.

1988 Monte Carlo SS w/ T-tops, White with gray int, 350, Summit cam, World Torquer S/R heads, Holley St. Dominator intake, Edelbrock 600cfm carb, Champion 3-row alum radiator, ramchargers, 200-r4 with CK Shift Kit, billet servo, 2200 stall, Afterburner headers, Pypes 2.5" with x-pipe, Violator mufflers (stock exit), S10 front brake swap.
#707350 - 07/27/09 01:29 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: BladeOfAnduril27]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,881
Z65_Paul Offline
Administrator
20+ Year
Z65_Paul  Offline
Administrator
20+ Year

Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,881
McDade, TX
Here's a bit more technical electrical information for the CS style alternators.

The 4 pin plug has connections marked S, F, L and P. NOTE: If your alternator as an 'I' in place of the 'L' connection, see the paragraph below.

S = Sense
F = Failure (Indicator)
L = Lamp
P = Pulse

The 'S' connection connects to a remote voltage sense location. This wire connects to the larger gauge wire that was on the stock SI alternator connector (Not the thick battery wire that connects to the rear of the alternator). As it sounds, the alternator uses this connection to sense the remote voltage to determine if it's sagging (more current required), or not (less current required).

The 'F' connection is the failure indicator and is not used for our setup. It normally would go to a alternator failure indicator in some setups (as opposed to an alternator lamp).

The 'L' connection is the lamp connection. The 'lamp' refers to the typical idiot light for an alternator. This connection requires switched (ignition) voltage through between 35 and 350 ohms of resistance. If the alternator sees below 35 ohms of resistance, the CS alternator will fail eventually. For the 4th Gen Monte Carlo SS, the thin brown wire that normally went to the stock SI alternator is switched voltage, but the resistance is too small. I measured mine at 15 ohms to ground. Since this is less than the 35 ohm minimum requirement for the CS alternator, you need to add a resistor in series with this brown wire, to the 'L' lamp connection. I chose a 40 ohm 5 watt resistor. As long as you keep the total resistance between 35 and 350 ohms, you should be ok. If in doubt, measure the resistance of your brown wire to ground with ignition off to determine your car's baseline resistance.

The 'P' connection is not used in our application. It's a pulsed output that connects to a tachometer in some applications.

For alternators that have an 'I' connection in place of the 'L' connection, the wiring requirements are a bit different. See this link for more information.

Depending on the exact model of alternator you purchase, the rear battery connection may not be convenient, or come too close to other engine components. In this case, you can remove the three bolts holding the alternator together to re-clock the rear. Because of the bosses on the altnerator, you will have to separate the two halves. Be forwarned that doing so will cause the alternator brushes and springs to pop out. Putting them back is simple by using a straightened out paperclip, inserted into the whole at the rear of the alternator which allows the brushes to be held in place while the alternator is apart. Once you have the alternator properly clocked, and the three bolts retorqued, simply remove the paperclip from the hole to release the brushes.

This information should apply to all CS style alternators, whether installed in the stock location on the passenger side of the engine, or on the driver's side of the engine in a serpentine belt setup.


[Linked Image]
PaulC PaulC@MonteCarloSS.com - - - - Album Pictures
Original Owner, Custom two-tone T-Toped 86 SS - Webmaster of:
[Linked Image]
#713811 - 08/14/09 09:52 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Z65_Paul]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 186
Yellowcarloss Offline
Member
Yellowcarloss  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 186
Jackson, MS
The plug that i have only have wires coming out of the F and L hole. So without the adapter will both wires be connect to the brown wire from the harness with the resistor on the L wire?


Chevy 385 430hp 457tq, vortec heads,9.8 comp., ran by stock computer and no emission, Monster built 700r4, Powertrain build 10 bolt (stock looking).
#714183 - 08/15/09 05:40 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Yellowcarloss]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,881
Z65_Paul Offline
Administrator
20+ Year
Z65_Paul  Offline
Administrator
20+ Year

Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,881
McDade, TX
You should only use the L connection, with the appropriate resistor in series to the stock brown wire. Do not connect the F connection to anything.


[Linked Image]
PaulC PaulC@MonteCarloSS.com - - - - Album Pictures
Original Owner, Custom two-tone T-Toped 86 SS - Webmaster of:
[Linked Image]
#720246 - 09/03/09 07:19 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Z65_Paul]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 571
AndreB Offline
Member
AndreB  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 571
Milwaukee, Wi
How do you change the pulley on the alternator? I have a serpentine setup....its like 6 grooves. If i find a CS alt with a V-style belt, i wanna be able to change it.


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#721780 - 09/09/09 01:32 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Z65_Paul]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,611
THEmean1 Offline
10+ Year
THEmean1  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,611
Memphis,TN
I had to change my pulleys, but it works fine one the best upgrades I ever done, besides the head lights.


85' Monte Carlo SS(Current Project)
Current(402CID-TH350-3.50 9" Detriot Tru-Trac)
Planning(2.5/1.5 drop,502CID,Roll Cage)
-----------------------------------------------
69' C10(Current Project)
Current(355CID-TH350-3.08 Peg)
Planning(4/6 drop,Disc Brake Upgrade, Posi)
#723098 - 09/12/09 09:36 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: BladeOfAnduril27]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,694
84supersport Offline
Member
84supersport  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,694
Louisville, KY
With the stock bracket I leaft the bolt at the intake loose and tightened up the alternator, then tightened up the bolt. It tweaked the bracket enough that I could get the bolt tight. I also had to "clearance" the groove enough for a larger bolt to fit through. The upper hole is larger and not threaded so you have to find a larger bolt to fit in it.

That stud on the back was also larger on mine. I keep lots or wiring connectors around so I just put a larger one on. I also swapped out to my original v-belt pulley and have not had an issue. It was approximately the same size. I only paid $20 for my alternator but ordered the harness instead of trying to make one.


84 Monte SS stolen September 2012. 077 DFE Jefferson County KY plate. $2500 reward. Vortec headed 350ci, th350, 3:73 limited slip cast aluminum cover, Autometer gauges, Pro-Stick, 2.5" fiberglass hood.



Matt
#723274 - 09/13/09 02:39 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: 84supersport]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,687
Minotaur15 Offline
15+ Year
Minotaur15  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,687
Manahawkin NJ
The serpentine and v-belt pulleys should be interchangeable. I just received a new aftermarket CS unit and the dummies sent it with a v-belt when it was spec'd for a serp. The aftermarket units are available with both. I'm pretty sure all OEM units were put on cars after v-belts were totally phased out.


Dan - minotaur15@hotmail.com
Used to have: '86 MMC Road Course Ready
2020 Kia Forte GT Manual - Daily Driver
[Linked Image]
#724373 - 09/17/09 05:50 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Minotaur15]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 498
crazyhorse1983ss Offline
Member
crazyhorse1983ss  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 498
Abingdon, Va
Great write-up! Round up a Chrome fan and pulley. Tape off the holes, shoot a coat of gloss black paint and voila! Looks sharp!


#733513 - 10/23/09 01:45 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: crazyhorse1983ss]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 201
tuff57 Offline
Member
tuff57  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 201
long island, ny
will this work on 4.3

#733646 - 10/23/09 02:36 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: tuff57]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,687
Minotaur15 Offline
15+ Year
Minotaur15  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,687
Manahawkin NJ
The conversion should be the same in every respect!


Dan - minotaur15@hotmail.com
Used to have: '86 MMC Road Course Ready
2020 Kia Forte GT Manual - Daily Driver
[Linked Image]
#743153 - 11/24/09 03:58 AM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Minotaur15]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 151
87aeroNAPTOWN Offline
Member
87aeroNAPTOWN  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 151
INDIANAPOLIS IN
anyone have a link to purchase the alt online. i checked ebay no luck tho

#743944 - 11/26/09 05:31 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: 87aeroNAPTOWN]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,687
Minotaur15 Offline
15+ Year
Minotaur15  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,687
Manahawkin NJ
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=8710

Beware of the Tuff Stuff alternators if you want it in a timely fashion. Pace thinks they are high quality, but they are basically custom built and it took me at least five weeks to get mine, and another week to get the correct pulley! Other than the delays, it seems like a nice unit...


Dan - minotaur15@hotmail.com
Used to have: '86 MMC Road Course Ready
2020 Kia Forte GT Manual - Daily Driver
[Linked Image]
#743986 - 11/26/09 09:10 PM Re: CS144 Alternator Conversion [Re: Minotaur15]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,479
87ChooChoo Offline
10+ Year
87ChooChoo  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,479
las Vegas, NV
I got mine at Autozone. Should be able tyo get them at Checker, O'reileys, Rockauto, etc. Look up any of the cars listed in the first post of this topic. Got mine for a pontiac transport.


85 El Camino Choo Choo with L31 350 Crate, TPI, Serp, TES Headers, GN 200-4r, 3.73 8.5 GN Posi, Acura Buckets, '04 GP Console, Electric Mirrors, Electronic HVAC, ZQ8 wheels, Blazer front brakes, LS1 rear brakes, and more....
https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Random Images
870/thumbs/DSCF1731.JPG
by NothinYet
500/thumbs/Scott_s_88_SS_86_SS.jpg
by Scott_86SS
500/thumbs/back1.jpg
by Billys88SS
1126/thumbs/1986_5.jpg
by Rich S
1059/thumbs/418166_2871251272810_1605735519_2500603_1772397578_n.jpg
by 02intimidator
Help MonteCarloSS.com


Recent Contributors
finallySS
Authorized Vendors
Tell them you saw it
on MonteCarloSS.com!


CustomMonteSSParts.com
Dixie Monte Carlo Depot
GSI Interiors
HRpartsNstuff
Mikes Montes
Savitske Classic & Custom
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0