MonteCarloSS.com
MonteCarloSS.com

CELEBRATING 20 YEARS!

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#189353 - 05/05/04 11:41 PM STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 254
85SSMan Offline
Member
85SSMan  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 254
Wichita, Kansas
Here is the scoop, I recently rebuilt my engine and like many others took out the computer harness, BUT, here is the difference, From what I gather alot of us are just pulling the sensors, and not cutting out the harness at the computer like I did. So for those of us that have cut the harness, and now have no Cruise Control fear not!!! The only thing that we need to fix is..

Find your buffer box, it is a small green box located behind the stereo(drivers side) there is a total of 7 wires coming out of it. Three are together coming out of the bottom (RED, GREEN, BLACK) these wires run to the VSS on the back of the speedo, GREEN is 12V, BLACK is Ground, and RED is the SIGNAL to the BUFFER.

Next you will find two harnesses on the top off the buffer box, one SINGLE YELLOW wire, this sends the signal to the Cruise Control Module, also there is a 3 wire harness, this is where the BIG PROBLEM lies, PINK/W BLACK STRIPE wire is your 12V to power the VSS, BLACK/W WHITE STRIPE this is the GROUND, THIS WIRE USED TO GROUND TO THE COMPUTER HARNESS, THAT IS WHY YOUR CRUISE WONT WORK!!! CUT THIS WIRE AND GROUND IT WITH YOUR STEREO HARNESS. NOW YOUR CRUISE SHOULD WORK. Also has a brown wire, this can be ignored, it is the VSS signal to the computer.

IF this doesnt fix your CRUISE after you have removed the computer harness let me know, I have been through this entire system and know it pretty well now, I am positive that I can diagnos your system, just try to be specific with your problem, and what you have done.

beer

Chris



1985 Monte SS, Rebuilt L69 with TPI. 200-4R Tranny. 951 Modine with TPI duel fans. True 2 1/4 Flowmaster Duals. B.F.H. made dual hump crossmember. Stock Suspension, interior, and body.
SOLD TO INTMDATR3 ON 03/04/06
#189354 - 05/06/04 02:23 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 587
jzajac1 Offline
10+ Year
jzajac1  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 587
MI usa
Good info, thank you

#189355 - 05/06/04 11:04 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 0
Draxx'87SS Offline
Lurker
Draxx'87SS  Offline
Lurker

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 0
Not Here, USA

#189356 - 05/07/04 12:22 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 254
85SSMan Offline
Member
85SSMan  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 254
Wichita, Kansas
you guys should of seen the happy dance I did when it worked, felt as good as the first time the engine ran.

Chris



1985 Monte SS, Rebuilt L69 with TPI. 200-4R Tranny. 951 Modine with TPI duel fans. True 2 1/4 Flowmaster Duals. B.F.H. made dual hump crossmember. Stock Suspension, interior, and body.
SOLD TO INTMDATR3 ON 03/04/06
#189357 - 05/07/04 12:37 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,637
MonteC Offline
10+ Year
MonteC  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,637
Summerville, SC
ill have to try that and get mine working.

why did you have to CUT your computer harness out? i pulled the whole thing out, without cutting any wires.

i actually ran my sub power wire through the hole it left and used a piece of hard plastic to seal the rest of the hole up.



SMCC
Broken Car Disease
#189358 - 05/07/04 01:28 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 0
Draxx'87SS Offline
Lurker
Draxx'87SS  Offline
Lurker

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 0
Not Here, USA

#189359 - 05/07/04 03:51 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,755
200kSS Offline
20+ Year
200kSS  Offline
20+ Year
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,755
Bloomsdale, MO
I'll print this out and try it out on the Malibu. Right now I've got the computer and complete harness laying on the floorboard just so the cruise will work.


88 SS Black/Oxblood. Power Tour car
80 Malibu 2dr. Drag Week car
#189360 - 05/08/04 02:02 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 254
85SSMan Offline
Member
85SSMan  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 254
Wichita, Kansas
200kSS, that should work for you if not let me know and I will try to help you out.

Quote:
why did you have to CUT your computer harness out? i pulled the whole thing out, without cutting any wires.
i had to cut all the wires that are in the dash harness that went into the engine compartment. The computer harness did unplug, I just thought I would rip it all out, but now starting to regret that.

Chris



1985 Monte SS, Rebuilt L69 with TPI. 200-4R Tranny. 951 Modine with TPI duel fans. True 2 1/4 Flowmaster Duals. B.F.H. made dual hump crossmember. Stock Suspension, interior, and body.
SOLD TO INTMDATR3 ON 03/04/06
#189361 - 05/11/04 06:40 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 852
84montecarloss Offline
Member
84montecarloss  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 852
Cedar Falls, Iowa
thank you. will try this after i put all the stuff back on...took it off cause it diddn't work. thank's again u are a good man


1984 Pontiac Fiero
1979 Kawasaki KZ1000
2017 Camaro SS
#189362 - 05/11/04 09:26 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,646
chevelle502 Offline
15+ Year
chevelle502  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,646
Dundalk. MD
this should also become a question on the FAQ section, very good info here.


1988 Monte Carlo SS
Black w/T-tops
Mods: Jet stage 2 chip, 2.5" cat back with flow super 44's, chrome valve covers, custom interior from a 2003 Monte SS, 3.73 posi rear (waiting to install), re-built tranny, Elec fan setup, Msd Ignition, LED Headlights
http://chucks88ss.tripod.com/Montepics/index.album?i=1
#189363 - 08/14/04 01:13 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 0
Draxx'87SS Offline
Lurker
Draxx'87SS  Offline
Lurker

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 0
Not Here, USA

#189364 - 08/14/04 02:00 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,890
Z65_Paul Offline
Administrator
20+ Year
Z65_Paul  Offline
Administrator
20+ Year

Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,890
McDade, TX
I just added the original info to the SS FAQ Electrical section. Thanks for the reminder.


[Linked Image]
PaulC PaulC@MonteCarloSS.com - - - - Album Pictures
Original Owner, Custom two-tone T-Toped 86 SS - Webmaster of:
[Linked Image]
#189365 - 08/14/04 02:52 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,028
speeddemon Offline
15+ Year
speeddemon  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,028
NW Iowa
Not to start anything but why not use the 78-80 style cruise that doesn't have the ECM?


Jeff J
I believe.....guns don't kill people.....husbands that come home early do! Larry The Cable Guy
#189366 - 08/14/04 03:24 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 15,082
85_SS Offline
Moderator
20+ Year
85_SS  Offline
Moderator
20+ Year

Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 15,082
Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by speeddemon:
Not to start anything but why not use the 78-80 style cruise that doesn't have the ECM?
It's probably a matter of using what you have - and if I am reading that right, it is as simple as manually grounding one wire that the ECM used to ground \:\)


[Linked Image]
1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
5.7 LITRE / TES Headers / SShaker Hood / WC T-5 5-Speed
1970 Pontiac GTO
Orbit Orange Judge Re-creation / YZ RAIII 400 / M21 4-Speed
#189367 - 08/14/04 04:45 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 0
Draxx'87SS Offline
Lurker
Draxx'87SS  Offline
Lurker

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 0
Not Here, USA

#189368 - 08/18/04 02:16 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,604
baaboo Offline
Member
baaboo  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,604
Racine, WI
How about this question for the experts, that I'm NOT! I put a TPI with a 7730 computer in my car. I needed the 4-pulse VSS. Any idea what is a good cruise control to use in the Monte body with the TPI computer and harness?


1987 Aerocoupe, 383 Super Ram and 20-gallon custom aluminum tank. Car retired (for now) from open road racing, but I'm not.
#189369 - 08/22/04 04:19 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 254
85SSMan Offline
Member
85SSMan  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 254
Wichita, Kansas
Not for sure, but I would think that if you could get your vaccumn solenoid from the stock monte cruise over to a fender, and a detent cable from the vaccumn solenoid to the TPI unit, you should be able to keep the stock cruise from the monte.

HTH

I will know more when I finally get an LT1 for the beast. But I think I will try to keep the Stock cruise system. Everything else under my hood is already Camero.

Chris



1985 Monte SS, Rebuilt L69 with TPI. 200-4R Tranny. 951 Modine with TPI duel fans. True 2 1/4 Flowmaster Duals. B.F.H. made dual hump crossmember. Stock Suspension, interior, and body.
SOLD TO INTMDATR3 ON 03/04/06
#189370 - 08/21/05 03:20 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!!  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 148
realsurfer88 Offline
Member
realsurfer88  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 148
Tallahassee
before i start getting out blade and hacking up a perfectly good harness, i should ask if i can run this setup, the re grounded wire, on a ss with the ecm still in use. im pretty sure that everything else on the setup is perfect , vac lines, motor connector, everything, but i just want to know if this has the same effect on an ecm car. thanks guys
Max


Super....scr3wduh at the moment..gah
#575866 - 06/10/08 09:24 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: realsurfer88]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 827
juangomez22 Offline
Member
juangomez22  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 827
houston tx
thanks 85SSMan i appreciate this great info. i think i had already read this somewhere here on the forums but regardless where i read it. i appreciate you posting this great info. thanks juan...

#582051 - 06/29/08 11:10 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 85SSMan]  
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,202
spudmanmike Offline
15+ Year
spudmanmike  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,202
Waterford, CT
Originally Posted By: 85SSMan
I will know more when I finally get an LT1 for the beast. But I think I will try to keep the Stock cruise system.


If you plan on going with a 4L60E or T56 where there is no mechanical speedo drive, its easy using a cruise control drive from an Impala or Caprice and the LT1s PCM. I think its a half dozen wires all together. I'll be trying this later this year with my car, which did not have factory cruise.

It is completely feasible if running the mechanical speedometer to use the stock system as there is no hookup to the stock ECM, but that cruise assembly with the vacuum actuator is PLAIN UGLY!!!!!!


86 SS
Iron-head LT1, 4L60E, GN 8.5"
All self-wired/installed/programmed
ZQ8's, Toyos, Blazer Brakes, Moog and SC&C, HRparts rear sway, ice cold A/C, too much to list..
2011 Audi S4 Prestige, M6, Brilliant Red
1997 K3500 Masons Dump, 454/4L80E
#613225 - 10/12/08 05:42 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: spudmanmike]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,114
345HP87SSAC Offline
Moderator
20+ Year
345HP87SSAC  Offline
Moderator
20+ Year

Member

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,114
Stanberry, MO
Thanks I will try it.


[Linked Image]
New BTR Stage 4 cam makes 449 HP and 380 TQ TQ at the wheels. 6.0 LY6 VVT and 4L85E!blackgoldaero http://www.cardomain.com/ride/671193
#627743 - 12/04/08 01:30 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 46
bradleyls103 Offline
Member
bradleyls103  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 46
Imlay City, MI
Originally Posted By: chevelle502
this should also become a question on the FAQ section, very good info here.


I agree!


Bradley
#634473 - 12/31/08 10:56 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: realsurfer88]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 312
Mikey340 Offline
Member
Mikey340  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 312
Woodstock, IL
Originally Posted By: realsurfer88
before i start getting out blade and hacking up a perfectly good harness, i should ask if i can run this setup, the re grounded wire, on a ss with the ecm still in use. im pretty sure that everything else on the setup is perfect , vac lines, motor connector, everything, but i just want to know if this has the same effect on an ecm car. thanks guys
Max


Pretty much same question.
Mine is a 1985 body with an 87 motor and ecm. Cruise doesn't work have vacuum but no power at the connector on the side of the diaphragm?
Mike



Monte resto Here
'85 Monte SS Bedliner Paint w/87 motor+trans, GTA rims,95 Formula seats(sold)
'05 GTO
1977 Monte Carlo bedliner v2
#649956 - 02/17/09 07:54 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Mikey340]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,151
WaSSted Offline
10+ Year
WaSSted  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,151
Kennewick
Not only is my ECM gone, I also replaced the stock speedo with a mechanical Autometer speedo.
In 2000 I purchased a VSS form jegsthatrun with hopes to reinstall my cruise and never got around to it. Turns out I got the wrong VSS so 9 years later I called JTR and they are sending me the correct parts for my VSS.

My question, how do I wire it up? JTR told me that one wires goes to ground and the other goes to the VSS input. Where is the VSS input? The Haynes manual that I have is absolutly no help. So I managed to borrow the 1988 Monte Carlo electrical services manual (yes, I scanned every page into PDF format wink).

So if you are like me and have aftermarket gauges and no ECM, you will need to ground the wire from the buffer as mentioned in previous posts and in the FAQ.
In addition, the VSS from JTR has two wires; one goes to ground, I will go into more detail on the VSS wire.

Now this is my theory, please correct me if I am wrong:

From what I have learned, there are three wires in our cars that go from the buffer(green box) to the back of the speedo (where the factory VSS is located). You have a red positive, black negitive and green is the VSS signal, correct? I believe the green wire is what you need to splice the JTR speed sensor into.

I will not know if this actually works until I receive my parts from JTR and install my heads. Maybe this weekend I will know if my theory is right or wrong.


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#653426 - 02/26/09 02:59 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: WaSSted]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,151
WaSSted Offline
10+ Year
WaSSted  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,151
Kennewick
Ok, my cruse works! Yippee!

I got the VSS from JTR last weekend and installed it. It did not work at first, i hooked it up to the green wire coming from the stock VSS behind the speedo going to the buffer. The buffer is not required for this VSS to work, so I pulled the yellow wire from the buffer, cut the end off and wired it to the VSS, and PRESTO!


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#661190 - 03/18/09 05:21 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: WaSSted]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,546
Phoenix Offline
Member
Phoenix  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,546
Kansas City, Missouri
Originally Posted By: WaSSted
Ok, my cruse works! Yippee!

I got the VSS from JTR last weekend and installed it. It did not work at first, i hooked it up to the green wire coming from the stock VSS behind the speedo going to the buffer. The buffer is not required for this VSS to work, so I pulled the yellow wire from the buffer, cut the end off and wired it to the VSS, and PRESTO!

Congrats!!! This is one of my favorite threads on the entire board for being very good rare info. I used the info from this to wire my '87 for cruise several years ago, but still don't have it running. My issue was complicated initially by needing an inline speed sensor, but the primary reason I still don't have it working is because the cowl sealing pan I installed didn't allow room for the vacuum accel control...and so I need to find a smaller one. But, after almost slamming into a highway divider while hydroplaning a couple years ago, I've also had second thoughts about having cruise on that car at all. This is a great thread; glad to see it is sticky'd.


#692419 - 06/11/09 03:33 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
06mcss Offline
Member
06mcss  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
Killeen, TX
I too have cut the computer side of the harness out of my monte, and I want to get my c/c working again. but I have another question, I remember when the original engine was still in the car. there was a few vacumm lines coming from the passenger side next to the fender what do those vacumm lines connect to? ...tia...Bill

#692427 - 06/11/09 03:48 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 519
Fireball69 Offline
Member
Fireball69  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 519
Old Town,FL.
Tex,I believe they went to the MAP or trans lockup,I will look at my 88 tomorrow.My business is slow so Im doing a partial restore on mine,may post some pics if Ican figure out how,


88 SS silver/gray T-Top
Reinventing the wheel and busting internet myths one project and one post at a time.
#692441 - 06/11/09 04:50 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Fireball69]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
06mcss Offline
Member
06mcss  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
Killeen, TX
fireball, that would be great. maybe some pics if you could, just to see where all the vacumm lines connect and where they originally come from...tia...Bill

#693417 - 06/14/09 04:04 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 519
Fireball69 Offline
Member
Fireball69  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 519
Old Town,FL.
Sorry about not getting back with you,my body man has more parts on the hood than underneath or inside,anyway maybe I can get my son(s) or wife to show me how to post pics.Guess you can tell I'm an inexperiencd blogger.


88 SS silver/gray T-Top
Reinventing the wheel and busting internet myths one project and one post at a time.
#695248 - 06/19/09 12:04 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Fireball69]  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,063
irkk1 Offline
15+ Year
irkk1  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,063
chicopee mass
what about the overdrive torque converter lock up ..or do you just use one of those switches.. i dont like the switch idea

#698781 - 06/29/09 03:38 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: irkk1]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
06mcss Offline
Member
06mcss  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
Killeen, TX
does anyone have a pic or diagram of the vacumm lines used for the cruise control. I have taken out the computer side harness, and need to know how or see how to rehook up the vacumm lines again....tia...Bill

#699138 - 06/30/09 02:23 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
06mcss Offline
Member
06mcss  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
Killeen, TX
anyone help please...Bill

#699142 - 06/30/09 02:28 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,858
ss4ever Offline
Moderator
15+ Year
ss4ever  Offline
Moderator
15+ Year

Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,858
Shelbina, Missouri
I don't have a diagram but there are two lines that go to that style diaphram, small and large. The large comes from the switch under the dash and should come out with the wiring harness. The smaller hose will come from the manifold and will work best if you have a small vacumme canister Tee'd into the line before it gets to the diaphram.

Randy


1983 Monte Carlo SS Turnkey ZZ4/700R4, Dakota Digital Instrument Cluster, 77k mile car. Many more mods to come soon.
#699334 - 06/30/09 02:32 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: ss4ever]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 62
Black Sunshine Offline
Member
Black Sunshine  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 62
columbus,IN
Is it possible to use the Monte cruise control when switching to an LT1 (or any other newer motor for that matter)? Would I just have to get the conversion box to get the speedo working again and then the cruise would work like normal? I need to know if I can leave the cruise control module in the donor Z (its rather large) or if I need to rob it.


Bret Pinkerton '87SS 385
#699566 - 07/01/09 04:23 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Black Sunshine]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
06mcss Offline
Member
06mcss  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
Killeen, TX
Randy, I got all the wiring and the large vacumm line and the ball canister on the passenger inner fender for the diapham. the lines I am talking about, if I remember correctly. two small thin vacumm lines came from the passenger side fender, close to the antenna connection area. or is was them lines for something else?...tia...Bill

#699579 - 07/01/09 05:14 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,858
ss4ever Offline
Moderator
15+ Year
ss4ever  Offline
Moderator
15+ Year

Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,858
Shelbina, Missouri
Those two lines are for the HVAC system, one supplies vacumme to the tempurature control and the other comes from the temp control to shut off the heater core while on MAX AC to help keep temps low inside the car.


1983 Monte Carlo SS Turnkey ZZ4/700R4, Dakota Digital Instrument Cluster, 77k mile car. Many more mods to come soon.
#740020 - 11/14/09 06:28 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: ss4ever]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 51
drb930 Offline
Member
drb930  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 51
Los Angeles, Ca
I have all the Cruise Control Diagnosis Diagrams on my computer.
If someone will tell me how to post them here I will put them up.

Had to complete re-install the Cruise Control in my ElCo that was removed and it also now is running a TPI Setup.

Thanks,
Dave


1987 El Camino SS, Displacement=357 CID 10-1.
Intake=Lingenfelter Super Ram w/52mm TB.
Heads=AFR 195 Street Eliminators.
Cam=Lingenfelter 219/219 .560/.560 112 LC. Exhaust=Doug Thorley Tri-y.
Computer=1227730 w/NVSRAM. Trans=700-R4. RearEnd=8.5 Posi w/342's. Brakes=C-5 Soon
#789039 - 04/28/10 02:51 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: drb930]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 248
Sherdep Offline
Member
Sherdep  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 248
Saint Cloud, Florida
Good thread for Info - here is a question - the vac diaphram that is on the drivers side fender well just in front of the brake booster - can someone tell me what it hooks to and post a picture cause mine is missing what I think it either a spring or not exactly sure and now that I have done the computer delete I will need to get this working as well - a [icture belw of what I am looking at and am not sure what it hooks to

Last edited by Sherdep; 04/28/10 02:53 AM.


86 Monte Carlo SS - 350 - built Turbo 350 tranny - Computer Delete with a Mallory Vac advance Distributor #8548201C - Eddy Carb #1406 Eddy 2101 Aluminum Dual Plane Intake, Eddy Performer plus Cam and Lifter Kit with #5794 Valve Spring Kit
#801607 - 06/11/10 05:26 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Sherdep]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
06mcss Offline
Member
06mcss  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
Killeen, TX
I have a question about the c/c w/o ecm. I have read the article concerning the green box under the dash and the black w/white stripe wire as ground. my ? is, if I cut this wire at the green box, I will have two black wire from it. which wire gets connected to the radio ground? one wire will come from the green box and the other wire should come from being connected to the turn signal lever..tks for any help...Bill

#804179 - 06/21/10 06:25 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
06mcss Offline
Member
06mcss  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
Killeen, TX
I have grounded the black w/white stripe from the green buffer box to the ground on my stereo and still have no cruise control. is there something else I am missing? tia...Bill

#821181 - 09/03/10 03:57 AM Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: 85SSMan]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
jwat Offline
New Member
jwat  Offline
New Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
honolulu, hi
So just learning about my '88 Monte, I discovered I have an issue. My computer is still installed and functioning as far as through the distributor. It is currently disconnected from the carberator. When I plug it into the carb, it instantly dies. As much as I can adjust the idle screw, it will not start up and idle with the harness plugged in. I read a post on here about taking the computer out and replacing the intake, carb, and distributor, as well as adding the toggle for the tranny and also putting in an ignition(coil) with the new non cc distributor. This sounds like quite the project. This car is my everyday driver. What else can I do to temporarily get around this issue. I can't keep driving it like it is. It is GUZZLING fuel almost as fast as I put it in. Do I need a new computer? Or tps? Or mcu? Help!

#821738 - 09/05/10 05:29 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: jwat]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,479
87ChooChoo Offline
10+ Year
87ChooChoo  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,479
las Vegas, NV
JWAT, sounds like your carb needs a rebuild ( or buy a rebuilt CCC carb). Without the computer controlling it, the carb goes to full rich all the time. Gas Guzzler.

It is probably the Mixture control solenoid. Plug both of the electical plugs into the carb, and turn the ignition key to on. You should hear some very fast clicking from the carb. No clicking, then the MCS is probably bad. Unplug the carb and test the MCS with an ohm meter. If it shows "open", then the MCS needs replacing. The other part that can go bad is the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). Ignitnion on, you should have about .5 volts across the black and blue lines.

If you are not comfortable with rebuilding a CCC Carb, best to consider a rebuilt. Search this site- you will find many recommendations for a rebuild. Do not buy one from your local auto parts store. A properly functioning CCC carb will run very well, get good mileage, and provide lots of performance. Good luck.

Also, best to post a new question rather than "highjacking" an existing post.


85 El Camino Choo Choo with L31 350 Crate, TPI, Serp, TES Headers, GN 200-4r, 3.73 8.5 GN Posi, Acura Buckets, '04 GP Console, Electric Mirrors, Electronic HVAC, ZQ8 wheels, Blazer front brakes, LS1 rear brakes, and more....
https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home
#822475 - 09/08/10 07:09 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: 87ChooChoo]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
jwat Offline
New Member
jwat  Offline
New Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
honolulu, hi
87ChooChoo, First and foremost, I apologize for "highjacking" the post. The only plug disconnected from the carb is the driver's side plug. I'm not sure whether that goes to the mcs or the tps. When I turn my key on, I hear clicking without the plug in. So, does that mean the tps is bad? I havent taken a meter home yet to read out the plug. Is the tps IN the carb? I am not too savvy with computer controlled carbs. I know a little about either carburated or fuel injected, not the combination. From what I know, the tps is something external to the carb/throttle body. If it is the tps, can I just replace that without rebuilding the carb? Thanks for your help so far.

#822485 - 09/08/10 07:23 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: jwat]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,479
87ChooChoo Offline
10+ Year
87ChooChoo  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,479
las Vegas, NV
TPS is in the carb, on the drivers side front. IIRC it is a three wire connector. There is also a small solenoid external to the carb on the drivers side, with one wire going to it, that increases the idle speed when the AC is on.
The clilcking is the MCS solenoid (Passenger Side Connector)- that is good to hear that it is clicking- means it is probably OK. If your TPS is out of wack, and connecting it causes problems, then it will send the wrong signal to the ECM. Need to check it with a Volt Meter. Leaving it unconnected is probably triggering a full rich condition on the carb. Plugging it in, if it is badly out of adjustment, is just confusing the ECM.

Carb will need a slight rebuild to replace it if it is bad- gaskets and a new TPS. Not a hard job, but some mechanical skills are required and some specialty tools ( Torx Drivers, TPS Adjust tool). Only problem is that once you replace the TPS, you may find other problems with the same carb ( bad float, leaking plugs are common). If you are going to the trouble to fix the TPS, and have to pay someone to fix it, I would consider going with a rebuilt CCC carb ( About $300), unless you are good at mechanical things. Then I would recommend getting the tools and learning the carb. Over the long term, you will be glad to have that knowledge and experinece.


85 El Camino Choo Choo with L31 350 Crate, TPI, Serp, TES Headers, GN 200-4r, 3.73 8.5 GN Posi, Acura Buckets, '04 GP Console, Electric Mirrors, Electronic HVAC, ZQ8 wheels, Blazer front brakes, LS1 rear brakes, and more....
https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home
#822749 - 09/09/10 10:30 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: 87ChooChoo]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
jwat Offline
New Member
jwat  Offline
New Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
honolulu, hi
Well I am somewhat mechanically inclined, but if a rebuilt carb will fix the problem, then I would much rather do that than take out the computer and start that project. I wish this wasn't my daily driver but unfortunately I got put into the situation unintentionally. Anyway, thanks for your help. Hopefully, my next post on here will be about something to start the restoration/upgrading rather than trying to fix it just to drive it!

#828579 - 10/07/10 05:36 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: jwat]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
06mcss Offline
Member
06mcss  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
Killeen, TX
I have done the black w/white wire cut on the green buffer box, and grounded it to the ground of the radio wire harness. but I still have no cruise control, I tried to check for a c/c fuse but couldn't find any. is there a certain ground black wire in the radio harness that the c/c ground wire has to be grounded to?..tia...Bill

#829097 - 10/10/10 03:50 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: 06mcss]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
06mcss Offline
Member
06mcss  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,047
Killeen, TX
any help from anyone?

#944687 - 09/07/12 06:33 PM Re: STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 85SSMan]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 155
86 ls montecarlo Offline
Member
86 ls montecarlo  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 155
delray beach fl
hi my name is Tom and i have an 86 ls with a small block 400 in it i have been battling with getting the crurise control woking ive been throw everything changed the brain module a few times i also cut the ground wire from the computer and grounded it to the body and it worked great for one day and then has not worked since i would really love to talk to you. my number is 561-706-3633 could you plz call thx so much


#1011981 - 09/09/14 02:32 AM Re: STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 85SSMan]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,657
mmc427ss Offline
20+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
20+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,657
Pottstown, Pa
Cruise is stand alone, meaning it doesn't need the ECM to work. But it done need the VSS sensor, located behind speedo, and the VSS Speed Buffer, the little green module under the dash. Module is 6 wires, three (BLK, RED, GREEN) run to the sensor on the speedo, PNK/BLK is IGN 12+ power, YELLOW runs (inputs)to the Cruise module, BRN runs (inputs) to the ECM. This BRN wire you don't need if you don't have an ECM.

Usually cruise problems are caused by a bad or miss-adjusted brakelight/cruise switch at the brake pedal. The vac valve in that switch releases the vac when the brake is applied. Also the brake light switch has two sets of contacts, one set opens/closes the cruise power supply, the other set of contacts in the switch of course work the brake light. Or the staulk on the steering column has a bad switch, or the very, very fine wire of the staulk harness that passes down through the column breaks and goes intermittent. Over the years have had all of the above problems with GM cruise. Never had to replace a cruise module or cruise servo yet.

Make sure you have a vacuum ball (reservoir) and a check valve install at the source to maintain vac in the cruise system. And of course no vac leaks in the cruise system.
Bob

#1012895 - 09/22/14 03:20 AM Re: STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 85SSMan]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 257
wanadrv Offline
Member
wanadrv  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 257
Wentzville, MO
Sorry to ask a very stupid question, but can you define VSS? Also, I am putting a dash back together and have no place to "hook" that wire up in the back of the instrument cluster. The pink/ black wire I have coming out of my fuse block that is in the position marked cruise control by the schematic has no place to plug in. Any help?


'82 Monte - sold
'87 SS Frame of Resto for my Son
#1012930 - 09/22/14 05:12 PM Re: STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: wanadrv]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,157
Ole Blue Offline
Member
Ole Blue  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,157
Lugoff, SC
Originally Posted By: wanadrv
Sorry to ask a very stupid question, but can you define VSS? Also, I am putting a dash back together and have no place to "hook" that wire up in the back of the instrument cluster. The pink/ black wire I have coming out of my fuse block that is in the position marked cruise control by the schematic has no place to plug in. Any help?
The VSS stands for 'Vehicle Speed Sensor'. There is a small rectangle opening in the back of the speedometer that one end of the VSS plugs into and then a small screw holds it in place.

There are wires connected to this small rectangular looking piece(which connects to the rear of the speedometer) that connect to a light green module as described in the post prior to yours.

Hope this makes sense and helps. If not, let us know what doesn't.

#1012931 - 09/22/14 05:54 PM Re: STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Ole Blue]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 257
wanadrv Offline
Member
wanadrv  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 257
Wentzville, MO
And this is in addition to the speedo cable itself? It does help, thanks!

Originally Posted By: Ole Blue
Originally Posted By: wanadrv
Sorry to ask a very stupid question, but can you define VSS? Also, I am putting a dash back together and have no place to "hook" that wire up in the back of the instrument cluster. The pink/ black wire I have coming out of my fuse block that is in the position marked cruise control by the schematic has no place to plug in. Any help?
The VSS stands for 'Vehicle Speed Sensor'. There is a small rectangle opening in the back of the speedometer that one end of the VSS plugs into and then a small screw holds it in place.

There are wires connected to this small rectangular looking piece(which connects to the rear of the speedometer) that connect to a light green module as described in the post prior to yours.

Hope this makes sense and helps. If not, let us know what doesn't.


'82 Monte - sold
'87 SS Frame of Resto for my Son
#1014682 - 10/23/14 02:30 AM Re: STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 85SSMan]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 968
ls1_monte Offline
15+ Year
ls1_monte  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 968
Eastern Iowa
Has anyone integrated the ls1 cruise box and the stock monte's cruise system to get a hybrid version that works??

In my case I have the stock speedo working via a modded tailshaft housing on the T56 with the stock speedo cable. Is it just a matter of wiring the "LS1's" cruise module??


'87 Monte SS With a stock 11,000 mile '98 LS1/T56.

#1032862 - 12/07/15 04:10 PM Re: STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 85SSMan]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 18
danielmurillo36 Offline
Junior Member
danielmurillo36  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Gaines, MI
nice, thanks

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Random Images
500/thumbs/Photo66.jpg
by Chief's Babe
500/thumbs/newwheels6.jpg
by Tony K.
1126/thumbs/1986_3.jpg
by Rich S
500/thumbs/yhuii.JPG
by juangomez22
500/thumbs/monte_112.jpg
by buffalo86montess
Help MonteCarloSS.com


Recent Contributors
kevins88ss
Authorized Vendors
Tell them you saw it
on MonteCarloSS.com!


CustomMonteSSParts.com
Dixie Monte Carlo Depot
GSI Interiors
HRpartsNstuff
Mikes Montes
Savitske Classic & Custom
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0