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#661190 - 03/18/09 05:21 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: WaSSted]  
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Phoenix Offline
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Kansas City, Missouri
Originally Posted By: WaSSted
Ok, my cruse works! Yippee!

I got the VSS from JTR last weekend and installed it. It did not work at first, i hooked it up to the green wire coming from the stock VSS behind the speedo going to the buffer. The buffer is not required for this VSS to work, so I pulled the yellow wire from the buffer, cut the end off and wired it to the VSS, and PRESTO!

Congrats!!! This is one of my favorite threads on the entire board for being very good rare info. I used the info from this to wire my '87 for cruise several years ago, but still don't have it running. My issue was complicated initially by needing an inline speed sensor, but the primary reason I still don't have it working is because the cowl sealing pan I installed didn't allow room for the vacuum accel control...and so I need to find a smaller one. But, after almost slamming into a highway divider while hydroplaning a couple years ago, I've also had second thoughts about having cruise on that car at all. This is a great thread; glad to see it is sticky'd.


#692419 - 06/11/09 03:33 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: chevelle502]  
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06mcss Offline
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Killeen, TX
I too have cut the computer side of the harness out of my monte, and I want to get my c/c working again. but I have another question, I remember when the original engine was still in the car. there was a few vacumm lines coming from the passenger side next to the fender what do those vacumm lines connect to? ...tia...Bill

#692427 - 06/11/09 03:48 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
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Fireball69 Offline
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Old Town,FL.
Tex,I believe they went to the MAP or trans lockup,I will look at my 88 tomorrow.My business is slow so Im doing a partial restore on mine,may post some pics if Ican figure out how,


88 SS silver/gray T-Top
Reinventing the wheel and busting internet myths one project and one post at a time.
#692441 - 06/11/09 04:50 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Fireball69]  
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06mcss Offline
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Killeen, TX
fireball, that would be great. maybe some pics if you could, just to see where all the vacumm lines connect and where they originally come from...tia...Bill

#693417 - 06/14/09 04:04 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
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Fireball69 Offline
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Old Town,FL.
Sorry about not getting back with you,my body man has more parts on the hood than underneath or inside,anyway maybe I can get my son(s) or wife to show me how to post pics.Guess you can tell I'm an inexperiencd blogger.


88 SS silver/gray T-Top
Reinventing the wheel and busting internet myths one project and one post at a time.
#695248 - 06/19/09 12:04 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Fireball69]  
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irkk1 Offline
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chicopee mass
what about the overdrive torque converter lock up ..or do you just use one of those switches.. i dont like the switch idea

#698781 - 06/29/09 03:38 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: irkk1]  
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06mcss Offline
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does anyone have a pic or diagram of the vacumm lines used for the cruise control. I have taken out the computer side harness, and need to know how or see how to rehook up the vacumm lines again....tia...Bill

#699138 - 06/30/09 02:23 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
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06mcss Offline
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anyone help please...Bill

#699142 - 06/30/09 02:28 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
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ss4ever Offline
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Shelbina, Missouri
I don't have a diagram but there are two lines that go to that style diaphram, small and large. The large comes from the switch under the dash and should come out with the wiring harness. The smaller hose will come from the manifold and will work best if you have a small vacumme canister Tee'd into the line before it gets to the diaphram.

Randy


1983 Monte Carlo SS Turnkey ZZ4/700R4, Dakota Digital Instrument Cluster, 77k mile car. Many more mods to come soon.
#699334 - 06/30/09 02:32 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: ss4ever]  
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Black Sunshine Offline
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columbus,IN
Is it possible to use the Monte cruise control when switching to an LT1 (or any other newer motor for that matter)? Would I just have to get the conversion box to get the speedo working again and then the cruise would work like normal? I need to know if I can leave the cruise control module in the donor Z (its rather large) or if I need to rob it.


Bret Pinkerton '87SS 385
#699566 - 07/01/09 04:23 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Black Sunshine]  
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06mcss Offline
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Killeen, TX
Randy, I got all the wiring and the large vacumm line and the ball canister on the passenger inner fender for the diapham. the lines I am talking about, if I remember correctly. two small thin vacumm lines came from the passenger side fender, close to the antenna connection area. or is was them lines for something else?...tia...Bill

#699579 - 07/01/09 05:14 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
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ss4ever Offline
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Shelbina, Missouri
Those two lines are for the HVAC system, one supplies vacumme to the tempurature control and the other comes from the temp control to shut off the heater core while on MAX AC to help keep temps low inside the car.


1983 Monte Carlo SS Turnkey ZZ4/700R4, Dakota Digital Instrument Cluster, 77k mile car. Many more mods to come soon.
#740020 - 11/14/09 06:28 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: ss4ever]  
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drb930 Offline
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Los Angeles, Ca
I have all the Cruise Control Diagnosis Diagrams on my computer.
If someone will tell me how to post them here I will put them up.

Had to complete re-install the Cruise Control in my ElCo that was removed and it also now is running a TPI Setup.

Thanks,
Dave


1987 El Camino SS, Displacement=357 CID 10-1.
Intake=Lingenfelter Super Ram w/52mm TB.
Heads=AFR 195 Street Eliminators.
Cam=Lingenfelter 219/219 .560/.560 112 LC. Exhaust=Doug Thorley Tri-y.
Computer=1227730 w/NVSRAM. Trans=700-R4. RearEnd=8.5 Posi w/342's. Brakes=C-5 Soon
#789039 - 04/28/10 02:51 AM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: drb930]  
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Sherdep Offline
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Saint Cloud, Florida
Good thread for Info - here is a question - the vac diaphram that is on the drivers side fender well just in front of the brake booster - can someone tell me what it hooks to and post a picture cause mine is missing what I think it either a spring or not exactly sure and now that I have done the computer delete I will need to get this working as well - a [icture belw of what I am looking at and am not sure what it hooks to

Last edited by Sherdep; 04/28/10 02:53 AM.


86 Monte Carlo SS - 350 - built Turbo 350 tranny - Computer Delete with a Mallory Vac advance Distributor #8548201C - Eddy Carb #1406 Eddy 2101 Aluminum Dual Plane Intake, Eddy Performer plus Cam and Lifter Kit with #5794 Valve Spring Kit
#801607 - 06/11/10 05:26 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: Sherdep]  
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06mcss Offline
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Killeen, TX
I have a question about the c/c w/o ecm. I have read the article concerning the green box under the dash and the black w/white stripe wire as ground. my ? is, if I cut this wire at the green box, I will have two black wire from it. which wire gets connected to the radio ground? one wire will come from the green box and the other wire should come from being connected to the turn signal lever..tks for any help...Bill

#804179 - 06/21/10 06:25 PM Re: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 06mcss]  
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06mcss Offline
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I have grounded the black w/white stripe from the green buffer box to the ground on my stereo and still have no cruise control. is there something else I am missing? tia...Bill

#821181 - 09/03/10 03:57 AM Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: 85SSMan]  
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jwat Offline
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honolulu, hi
So just learning about my '88 Monte, I discovered I have an issue. My computer is still installed and functioning as far as through the distributor. It is currently disconnected from the carberator. When I plug it into the carb, it instantly dies. As much as I can adjust the idle screw, it will not start up and idle with the harness plugged in. I read a post on here about taking the computer out and replacing the intake, carb, and distributor, as well as adding the toggle for the tranny and also putting in an ignition(coil) with the new non cc distributor. This sounds like quite the project. This car is my everyday driver. What else can I do to temporarily get around this issue. I can't keep driving it like it is. It is GUZZLING fuel almost as fast as I put it in. Do I need a new computer? Or tps? Or mcu? Help!

#821738 - 09/05/10 05:29 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: jwat]  
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87ChooChoo Offline
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las Vegas, NV
JWAT, sounds like your carb needs a rebuild ( or buy a rebuilt CCC carb). Without the computer controlling it, the carb goes to full rich all the time. Gas Guzzler.

It is probably the Mixture control solenoid. Plug both of the electical plugs into the carb, and turn the ignition key to on. You should hear some very fast clicking from the carb. No clicking, then the MCS is probably bad. Unplug the carb and test the MCS with an ohm meter. If it shows "open", then the MCS needs replacing. The other part that can go bad is the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). Ignitnion on, you should have about .5 volts across the black and blue lines.

If you are not comfortable with rebuilding a CCC Carb, best to consider a rebuilt. Search this site- you will find many recommendations for a rebuild. Do not buy one from your local auto parts store. A properly functioning CCC carb will run very well, get good mileage, and provide lots of performance. Good luck.

Also, best to post a new question rather than "highjacking" an existing post.


85 El Camino Choo Choo with L31 350 Crate, TPI, Serp, TES Headers, GN 200-4r, 3.73 8.5 GN Posi, Acura Buckets, '04 GP Console, Electric Mirrors, Electronic HVAC, ZQ8 wheels, Blazer front brakes, LS1 rear brakes, and more....
https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home
#822475 - 09/08/10 07:09 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: 87ChooChoo]  
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jwat Offline
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honolulu, hi
87ChooChoo, First and foremost, I apologize for "highjacking" the post. The only plug disconnected from the carb is the driver's side plug. I'm not sure whether that goes to the mcs or the tps. When I turn my key on, I hear clicking without the plug in. So, does that mean the tps is bad? I havent taken a meter home yet to read out the plug. Is the tps IN the carb? I am not too savvy with computer controlled carbs. I know a little about either carburated or fuel injected, not the combination. From what I know, the tps is something external to the carb/throttle body. If it is the tps, can I just replace that without rebuilding the carb? Thanks for your help so far.

#822485 - 09/08/10 07:23 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: jwat]  
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87ChooChoo Offline
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las Vegas, NV
TPS is in the carb, on the drivers side front. IIRC it is a three wire connector. There is also a small solenoid external to the carb on the drivers side, with one wire going to it, that increases the idle speed when the AC is on.
The clilcking is the MCS solenoid (Passenger Side Connector)- that is good to hear that it is clicking- means it is probably OK. If your TPS is out of wack, and connecting it causes problems, then it will send the wrong signal to the ECM. Need to check it with a Volt Meter. Leaving it unconnected is probably triggering a full rich condition on the carb. Plugging it in, if it is badly out of adjustment, is just confusing the ECM.

Carb will need a slight rebuild to replace it if it is bad- gaskets and a new TPS. Not a hard job, but some mechanical skills are required and some specialty tools ( Torx Drivers, TPS Adjust tool). Only problem is that once you replace the TPS, you may find other problems with the same carb ( bad float, leaking plugs are common). If you are going to the trouble to fix the TPS, and have to pay someone to fix it, I would consider going with a rebuilt CCC carb ( About $300), unless you are good at mechanical things. Then I would recommend getting the tools and learning the carb. Over the long term, you will be glad to have that knowledge and experinece.


85 El Camino Choo Choo with L31 350 Crate, TPI, Serp, TES Headers, GN 200-4r, 3.73 8.5 GN Posi, Acura Buckets, '04 GP Console, Electric Mirrors, Electronic HVAC, ZQ8 wheels, Blazer front brakes, LS1 rear brakes, and more....
https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home
#822749 - 09/09/10 10:30 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: 87ChooChoo]  
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jwat Offline
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honolulu, hi
Well I am somewhat mechanically inclined, but if a rebuilt carb will fix the problem, then I would much rather do that than take out the computer and start that project. I wish this wasn't my daily driver but unfortunately I got put into the situation unintentionally. Anyway, thanks for your help. Hopefully, my next post on here will be about something to start the restoration/upgrading rather than trying to fix it just to drive it!

#828579 - 10/07/10 05:36 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: jwat]  
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06mcss Offline
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Killeen, TX
I have done the black w/white wire cut on the green buffer box, and grounded it to the ground of the radio wire harness. but I still have no cruise control, I tried to check for a c/c fuse but couldn't find any. is there a certain ground black wire in the radio harness that the c/c ground wire has to be grounded to?..tia...Bill

#829097 - 10/10/10 03:50 PM Re: Take out Computer or Fix it? [Re: 06mcss]  
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06mcss Offline
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Killeen, TX
any help from anyone?

#944687 - 09/07/12 06:33 PM Re: STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 85SSMan]  
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delray beach fl
hi my name is Tom and i have an 86 ls with a small block 400 in it i have been battling with getting the crurise control woking ive been throw everything changed the brain module a few times i also cut the ground wire from the computer and grounded it to the body and it worked great for one day and then has not worked since i would really love to talk to you. my number is 561-706-3633 could you plz call thx so much


#1011981 - 09/09/14 02:32 AM Re: STICKY: Cruise without the ECM.. The Answers !!!! [Re: 85SSMan]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Pottstown, Pa
Cruise is stand alone, meaning it doesn't need the ECM to work. But it done need the VSS sensor, located behind speedo, and the VSS Speed Buffer, the little green module under the dash. Module is 6 wires, three (BLK, RED, GREEN) run to the sensor on the speedo, PNK/BLK is IGN 12+ power, YELLOW runs (inputs)to the Cruise module, BRN runs (inputs) to the ECM. This BRN wire you don't need if you don't have an ECM.

Usually cruise problems are caused by a bad or miss-adjusted brakelight/cruise switch at the brake pedal. The vac valve in that switch releases the vac when the brake is applied. Also the brake light switch has two sets of contacts, one set opens/closes the cruise power supply, the other set of contacts in the switch of course work the brake light. Or the staulk on the steering column has a bad switch, or the very, very fine wire of the staulk harness that passes down through the column breaks and goes intermittent. Over the years have had all of the above problems with GM cruise. Never had to replace a cruise module or cruise servo yet.

Make sure you have a vacuum ball (reservoir) and a check valve install at the source to maintain vac in the cruise system. And of course no vac leaks in the cruise system.
Bob

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