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#702536 - 07/11/09 05:37 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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AndreB Offline
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Just got back from the pick and pull.. got a dual fan from a 90 sumthing dodge stratus(maybe a 98), new master brake cylinder from a 80s GP and 2 6x9s spakers from a dodge caravan...all for ..drumroll please...$30. Now i jes need to get the wiring and figure out how to mount it. fan looks brand new, no rusty color to it. Drove all the way to sheyboygan county.


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#702543 - 07/11/09 05:51 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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AndreB Offline
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I was looking at the intrepid fan and didnt notice a big difference. Hopefully this will work jes like it. I didnt get the intrepid fan only because this 1 looked brand new. Anyone ever use the stratus fan..or did i get the wrong thing. They look pretty damn similar.


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#702547 - 07/11/09 06:00 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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Either way, i think they will work. i only use the low setting on the ramcharger/intrepid fan anyways. 100 degree weather and traffic... The high is for???




1987 SS
#702549 - 07/11/09 06:08 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: jaywos]  
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AndreB Offline
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im guessing for when u run the ac or driving the car pretty hard...i dunno. I dont have ac.

Btw... What shroud are you guys using with this. What make/model? I may make another trip to a different pick and pull today or 2mor.


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#702552 - 07/11/09 06:15 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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I use low for a/c or not at all on highway, she'll run 160 with fans at highway and 180 stat... too cold i think. i don't know, lol, but it's nice to have the high setting anyways.

I just cut the stock shroud, but most are using the cutlass radiator top plate without shroud.

my electric fan install




1987 SS
#702553 - 07/11/09 06:18 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: jaywos]  
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AndreB Offline
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maybe ill jes cut mine too...save some money


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#719904 - 09/02/09 04:43 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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AndreB Offline
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So can anyone tell me if this fan control harness is decent enuf to work. I'll be running the ramcharger fans and i dont have AC. It has a 50amp relay and a 30amp circuit breaker. So when running both fan together, do they ever go over 30amps? And when i wire them, should i wire them to run on low or run on high? I dont plan on doing any racing soon...jes street and highway driving. The TEMP SENSOR TURNS FAN ON AT 200 OFF AT 185. Is that fine or should it cum on at a lower temp? Ill provide the link as well.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350229441806&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#719991 - 09/02/09 03:00 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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Gruvin Offline
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With that sensor you should be running a 185 T-stat, It would have been best to see what the fan circuit breaker/relay was running in that car so you can build a similar circuit in your car

I quickly searched online for a fuse diagram but was unsuccessful, most replies said to consult the owners manual


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
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#747209 - 12/09/09 04:47 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: markg]  
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Just a note about the charging system. I just installed the Chrysler fans. With headlights on, heater blower motor running, and fans running I'm discharging all the way down to 8 volts. During the day w/o the headlights it's o.k.

I'm putting a 96am alternator on today. Advance Auto Parts p/n 7294. I'll let you know how that works out.


Work in progress!!!! 406, Flat Tops, 5.7 rods, 650 Double, 70cc heads, Summit 1105 Cam, Intake, 3:73, TH400, No-Hop bars, Headers and exhaust.. etc..
#747453 - 12/10/09 03:24 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: Partsguy19]  
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The higher amp alternator did the trick for me. She stays steady charging at all times. Note the Alternator I had on there was old and could have been "week".


Work in progress!!!! 406, Flat Tops, 5.7 rods, 650 Double, 70cc heads, Summit 1105 Cam, Intake, 3:73, TH400, No-Hop bars, Headers and exhaust.. etc..
#748245 - 12/13/09 11:42 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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TURBO Offline
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TN Smoky Mtns
Bob,
Spal unit took a dump. Shorted out internally and keep the fans running, Killing the battery. Called Spal and the tech, will not mention names, said to go with relays as the PWM is not 100%. Now I hear a bearing noise when I hand spin the fan. Which 11" dual fans seem to work the best "longest". Also looking into the Mark VIII fan just need to find the wiring.



87 SS White/ Saddle,t-top,350/330 hp
#751386 - 12/26/09 08:59 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: TURBO]  
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AndreB Offline
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Milwaukee, Wi
just curious, what are most of you guys running your fans on,....high or low when they turn on?


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#751494 - 12/26/09 10:03 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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I've been running the Spal dual 11" fans since 06 using the an early version of the Spal PWM with no problems. From what Mark at Spal told me several years ago was that the early PWMs didn't have many problems, it wasn't until they contracted a new vender to build the PWM that the problems started to arise.

The Spal dual 11" don't have nearly the amp draw the Ramcharger or Mark VII or VIII fans do, I believe my Spal is 25 amps per fan. The primary fan runs right off the PWM and the sec fan is on a relay contolled by the PWM, per their instructions.

For a rad I'm running a 4 core brass/copper Superior which is 10 years old, it's a dirt track stock car type built by them for durability. Cooling has been nothing but very good, the fans don't run at all on cold days and hot days it keeps the temps at my set point of 185.

The alternator is a 100A with upgrades to the stock wiring gauge for the charging circuit.

It's a shame people are having so many problems with the PWM, I think it will work great with lower amp fans. The Marks just have VERY high amp draws.
Bob

#751687 - 12/27/09 05:09 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: mmc427ss]  
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85_SS Offline
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I was using the first design SPAL PWM with a signle 16" Dodge Caravan fan that I'm sure pulled under 20A, maybe even less than 15A. First PWM completely died and gladly I noticed the temp before it was too late - it was a cool night so as long as I kept moving it stayed cool. Second PWM got stuck on all the time. The reason I upgraded the fans is because it wouldn't keep up once I got the A/C recharged.

I then got a V3 model under warranty (had to pay the difference in cost) and was going to try it on a set of Intrepid fans as I liked how they fit and people have had success with them. One of the two fans ended up being a dud which is why I went with the Mark VIII. I doubted the V3 could handle it, but read online that SPAL said it would as long as you used a higher amp fuse. That was incorrect (wouldn't even work on low speed) so I just sold it and decided to just go with a relay circuit as that should eliminate all the problems with the flaky electronics and cooling once and for all smile It took some trial and error to get the circuit working the way I wanted, but I didn't have any problems during this past summer.

The problem with the V3 was this - it gives the a jolt to get it moving.... which defeats one of the main advantages of a PWM in eliminating high startup currents. The older versions just slowly ramped up the speed so your highest draw was whatever running current was required to keep the car at a specific temp. Without this new "feature", I'm sure it would have worked on a Mark VIII fan.

In short, it sounds like if you got one of the early runs you are good to go. But it appears they switched manufacturers to save a few bucks and in the end it really hurt them as their PWM's do not have a good name after all the problems they've had.


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#751700 - 12/27/09 06:18 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: 85_SS]  
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You and I have gone around on this before and you're correct, I may have got one of the lucky PWMs. I actually got my PWM from http://www.centechwire.com/ a local vender. He bought it from Spal to test it for himself when they first came out. I walked into his store and picked it up, mostly because I wanted to look at one first, before buying. Centech sells his own controller, http://www.centechwire.com/catalog/cooling/fc2p.shtml but it's not weatherproof for underhood install.

One of these days I need to buy a good DC amp probe to measure the draws on the Spal 11" duals. The primary fan will surge to high speed for a second and then 1/2 speed, then increase if necessaary which is most of the time. Spal claims max of 37A per fan but I think it's lower under normal run conditions.

http://www.spalusa.com/store/main.aspx?p=itemdetail&item=30102052

I like the idea of a full functioning fan controller. Added a high pressure cycling switch to my R12 factory A/C, also an overide switch to better control the PWM. So far no problems whats so ever.

The Spal duals I purchased in 2001 but didn't install until 06 when I bought the PWM. There wasn't a controller available until the PWM that met my requirements. There are a few companies making what appear to be better controllers now but haven't seen enough feedback to grade them yet. Don't care for any controller which uses a probe in the radiator, they need to be in the thermostat housing. JMO
Bob

#753599 - 01/04/10 03:44 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: mmc427ss]  
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TN Smoky Mtns
I am still trying again. This time I went with Spal 11" fans with PWM V3. All Spal wiring. Plug and play. These fans are Made in Italy, 3 year warranty, and are quite alot heavier than the Ramchargers. This new V3 is larger and seems to have solved some of the earlier issues. I still mounted it away from the fender water channel. Just to be safe. I am really impressed so far. I went through 3 controllers in 4 years. Leaking issues and just plain shorting out. Will keep you posted on these new upgrades. Just more money after more money but I have a good feeling about these.



87 SS White/ Saddle,t-top,350/330 hp
#753607 - 01/04/10 04:54 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: TURBO]  
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That Spal is a good fit top to bottom and about an inch smaller on each side but covers the core well. A belt sander was used to trim the fan housing edges that would touch the rad core, they barely touches the core now. The Duals are actually two separate fans and housings attached together. Where they are jointed is were I had to do the most trimming to get them to lay flat. I'm running a Superior 4 core coppor/brass rad so my core is much thicker, another reason for trimming and leveling those edges.

My PWM is mounted under the rad support in front of the battery. An alum mount with a water shield was made to keep water off it, that location is cooler also.

Hope this latest setup works for you!!!!!!!
Bob

#755243 - 01/09/10 03:09 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: mmc427ss]  
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The Spal V3 controllers are good if the fans are not high powered. The Spal fans are not high current drawing fans and the current demanded by factory fans usually exceed the capability of the Spal controllers. It's stupid in this day and age, nobody seems to be able to make a controller that is PWM and can handle powerful factory fan 100% with no problems. PWM is not a patented method of fan operation but the design of activation can be....I am looking into a design with a friend who is an electrical engineer with Verizon in their RF repairs dept. and I talked with him about this problem-he's going to have a prototype PWM controller for me to try in a few weeks-this will be geared towards factory style HO fans. Hopefully we'll come up with something.


gbodyparts1234@yahoo.com

HARNESSWORX
#755295 - 01/09/10 06:38 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: gmachinz]  
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Over the past several years between this forum, the ProTour forum, Mustang and a few others, the Spal controller has been beat up and down the street for being unreliable. My thinking is when Mark at Spal designed his first PWM it was never intended to be used on those high current draw monster fans people use with the PWM.

A few car manufactures use the Spal Dual fan setup on their cars, Lamborghini for one, and find it does the job. On my engine setup, 427SBC/6spd, moderate HP, with factory A/C, the dual Spals work great along with a 10 year old 4 core rad. The Spal duals are only rated at 2800 cfm, and I'm not sure why people need a 5000+ cfm fan setup to cool a Monte.

It's seems to me that it can't be that difficult to design and build a PWM that can handle the necessary current draws for these monster fans, just need to build accordingly.

As a sideline to going to work everyday I do appliance repairs, washers, dryers, etc, and find these days everyone wants a digital display and a processor. What I find is the processors are pretty reliable but it's the minimum spec'd relays on the processor board that are the problem. Those miniture plastic 20 and 30 amp relays soldered to the boards just can't hold up over time. Replaced several processor boards for just that reason.

With the Spal PWM I'm not sure what the problem is but I would bet it's spec'd for a certain fan draw on the primary fan and when you exceed that heat is killing the unit.

Make sure when designing a PWM you take that into account.

Don't know if you have looked at these other controllers but here's a few examples.

http://www.diftech.com/
http://www.dccontrol.com/index.htm
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/p...prod/prd641.htm

The street rod guys seems to go with the Dakota, just don't like the idea that most of the above controllers are not weatherproof.
Bob

#774885 - 03/16/10 03:30 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: mmc427ss]  
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AndreB Offline
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Whats it mean when u turn the key on the ON position and the fans start right away? I believe i wired it properly with the fan kit i got, but im guessing there aint suppose to start right away.


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#776296 - 03/20/10 07:45 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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AndreB Offline
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Milwaukee, Wi
anybody?


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#776298 - 03/20/10 07:49 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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how did you wire it? Some people wired it to turn on with the ignition, otherwise you need a toggle switch or temp sensor.




1987 SS
#777062 - 03/23/10 02:07 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: jaywos]  
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AndreB Offline
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It has a relay, temp switch and circuit breaker. i posted a pic of kit. i wired the positive wire to the battery, ground to ground and sensor wire to temp sensor which i hav screwed in the intake


85SS 350v8, 200-4r, bodywork and H4 upgrade coming soon
dreday1062000@yahoo.com
#777096 - 03/23/10 03:12 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: AndreB]  
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Andre, sounds like your Relay isn't wired correctly or your Temp sender/switch is stuck. Looks like your Temp Sender/Switch supplies the Ground when it's activated.

#820740 - 09/01/10 04:56 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: Klaymen]  
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Randy, would suggest you read about the last 10 pages of the electric fan post.
http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=183709#Post183709

Not being smart --- either. Kevin has had a ton of issues with the Spal controllers. My PWM is installed now 4 years with the Spal dual 12" fans and have had no problems. Mark at Spal told me my PWM was a very early unit, made stateside, maybe one of the reasons it has worked correctly. It's fully automatic, has an override wired in, a high pressure A/C circuit added and is weatherproof. Haven't spent any time recently seeing if there has been a new player in the fan controller market but there wasn't one prior that I would chose over the PWM.
BOb

Last edited by mmc427ss; 09/01/10 05:08 AM.
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