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I pulled a gm serpentine off of a 93 caprice right before covid and sandblasted it and the pulleys. When I pulled it I got all the bolts and wire connectors and labeled them. The caprice serpentine is the same as the f body and the same as the one chevrolet performance sells. I know this swap is well documented but some of the photos are missing, part numbers have changed or are no longer available, and I couldn't find where anyone was using a sanden compressor on the swap on this forum. Over on third gen forum its been done quite a bit on the camaros.

The brackets, braces, connectors and bolts were $58 from pull a part. I sandblasted everything myself so just time and a little wear on the blasting media. Here is what it all looked like after blasting and what I have to start with. The next picture is the some pieces sprayed with semi gloss black. The gm kit only has 2 braces but the caprice had 3.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by 88ssBrent; 02/25/22 05:24 PM.
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The new parts I've used so far for the swap, as usual on my "build" threads I'll do a complete cost for the project when done.

Ac delco tensioner 38118 $45
Smog pump delete pulley and bracket 10129569 $55
Ac delco waterpump 88926233 $36
Alternator 140 amp iceberg cs130 $150
Power steering pump 207926 $75
Sanden 4864 FLX7 $231
https://truckerac.com/03-3708.html

Dirty dingo r4 to sanden compressor bracket $49
https://www.dirtydingo.com/shop/mobile_product_info.php?products_id=1622
Brackets, braces, and pulleys from caprice $58

This project started as wanting to go to parallel flow condensor for better r134 cooling. I wanted to do the serpentine so I would need the f -body condensor, my r4 compressor would not fit the brackets so I needed a new compressor so I decided on the sanden. The below picture was just for fit up, I plan to paint water pump and do some other things before final mounting and it's also the old tensioner.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by 88ssBrent; 02/25/22 07:14 PM.
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What condenser did you use?

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Ya know I always wonder why all the hype on the serpentine belt setup. Yes, one belt to deal with, yes the A/C compressor gets moved to the pass side the result is shorter line set and the condenser in/out moved to pass side, yes self adjusting tensioner, yes one belt. But I never viewed any of them as much of an advantage for spending the time of money to do it. The Sanden compressor may be an advantage.

My 95 Astro is a 4.3 with serpentine, and as we know the 4.3 is just a 350 with 2 cylinders removed, and everything that bolts to the front of a Vortec head 4.3 will bolt to a later head V8. My 4.3 has a Sanden comp located on the drivers side. The alt is located on the pass side. The P/S pump is located under the A/C comp and has a remote reservoir located 16" above the pump.

I always felt that 4.3 serp setup was a much simpler to swap into a Monte. The thing people didn't like was it didn't clean up the line set coming from the compressor. Alt and P/S pump are simple.

Ok, saw my first serp setup when my brother bought his brand new 87 F body, just a 305 LG4 with 700R, so 35 years ago. He learned a lesson when be had to put a water pump on that car and they gave him the wrong rotation. 87 was a serp transition year, some had it some didn't.

My Astro serp, idlers replaced numerous times along with a couple belts, a couple Sanden comp done and the one in the van now is junk, alt twice, two water pumps and smells like another on it's way. Cyl heads off three times on this engine in the near 17 years I've owned it. So the Serp setup has been unbolted each side and just pulled forward to get the heads off. Can say once you do that the second time you realize it may be easier than dealing with separate alt and compressor on a non serp engine.

Still not sold on the serp setup even though it was the latest stock accessory setup for the front of a SBC but don't think they did that for us, they did that because it was easier and cheaper for them, them meaning GM.

My wife's 3.8 Monte has a serp, belts and idlers, pump, and alt done a couple times.
Daughter's supercharged 3.8 is serp and has two belts and three idlers (two being tensioners), all being replaced twice.

After all that still think i will stay with V-belts on the 86.
Bob

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Originally Posted by Tunedss86
What condenser did you use?


I ordered the f body condenser and liquid line from original air. Says they both shipped today , we will see. Once I get it I'll take detailed pictures of the condenser and install pictures.
Condenser $322
https://www.originalair.com/11-215p
Liquid line $84
https://www.originalair.com/13-281

Plan to go with 55451 four seasons hoses $81 off the f body and a monte carlo accumulator $19. Below is a picture of the setup on a 3rd gen.
[Linked Image]

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Ouch, that condenser got pricey. I kinda remember the Grand Prix G body for less than 100 bucks. But i know availability from Spectra, being Canada, of late was non-existent
https://ecat.spectrapremium.com/products/7-4013

Is it possible to have two high pressure ports in the system, one for a high pressure gauge when needed for setup and one for a high pressure switch for the electric fan controller?
Bob

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Bob, the gm serpentine is like a lot of things it's not for everyone. The best looking gm engine in my eyes is the tpi with the serpentine, so I've always liked the look and function of it. I really like the setup with the sanden.

Was not happy about laying the coin down for the original air condenser but to make myself feel better it's american made and true parallel flow. I also wanted the camaro condenser because of the lower lines coming out of it and with my research it looks like the factory f body lines will line up perfect coming out of the sanden on the g body. The liquid line from original air has 2 ports in it.

I was wanting the spectra 7-3231, as you said they filed bankruptcy so at the time no new product in the USA only Canada. I called their office and they said the only condensers that would be available is if it was already manufactured. I searched high and low and probably made 50 calls looking for one, no luck. 3rd gen.org guys have been looking everywhere for one. There is another brand on rock auto but when researching its said to be very poor quality. Only other option was buying a universal and making it fit and that's not what I was wanting to do so I dug deep and pulled a little more out of the wallet than I wanted to.

One thing to note is that you could do this swap with a combination of the Monte hoses. I ran across this as I was searching, might be a members car.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Last edited by 88ssBrent; 02/26/22 02:05 PM.
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I had always heard the go-to one was from an Olds Cutlass as it is the same size, but ports are on the passenger side.



Originally Posted by mmc427ss
Ya know I always wonder why all the hype on the serpentine belt setup. Yes, one belt to deal with, yes the A/C compressor gets moved to the pass side the result is shorter line set and the condenser in/out moved to pass side, yes self adjusting tensioner, yes one belt. But I never viewed any of them as much of an advantage for spending the time of money to do it. The Sanden compressor may be an advantage.

My 95 Astro is a 4.3 with serpentine, and as we know the 4.3 is just a 350 with 2 cylinders removed, and everything that bolts to the front of a Vortec head 4.3 will bolt to a later head V8. My 4.3 has a Sanden comp located on the drivers side. The alt is located on the pass side. The P/S pump is located under the A/C comp and has a remote reservoir located 16" above the pump.

I always felt that 4.3 serp setup was a much simpler to swap into a Monte. The thing people didn't like was it didn't clean up the line set coming from the compressor. Alt and P/S pump are simple.

Ok, saw my first serp setup when my brother bought his brand new 87 F body, just a 305 LG4 with 700R, so 35 years ago. He learned a lesson when be had to put a water pump on that car and they gave him the wrong rotation. 87 was a serp transition year, some had it some didn't.

My Astro serp, idlers replaced numerous times along with a couple belts, a couple Sanden comp done and the one in the van now is junk, alt twice, two water pumps and smells like another on it's way. Cyl heads off three times on this engine in the near 17 years I've owned it. So the Serp setup has been unbolted each side and just pulled forward to get the heads off. Can say once you do that the second time you realize it may be easier than dealing with separate alt and compressor on a non serp engine.

Still not sold on the serp setup even though it was the latest stock accessory setup for the front of a SBC but don't think they did that for us, they did that because it was easier and cheaper for them, them meaning GM.

My wife's 3.8 Monte has a serp, belts and idlers, pump, and alt done a couple times.
Daughter's supercharged 3.8 is serp and has two belts and three idlers (two being tensioners), all being replaced twice.

After all that still think i will stay with V-belts on the 86.
Bob


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Serpentine belt setups have a couple of disadvantages. Bing a single belt means if it snaps you lose everything. With the multi V belts if one snaps, you just lose one system. Other issue are idler pulleys are wesk links as they often fail before any of the belt driven accessories, this includes the tensor pulley. If the tensor pulley or idler pulleys develop any wobble they will quickly chew up the belt. I seen tensors and idler pulleys having much shorter lives than the belt. Finally the belt tensor is hazardous to work on as they can snap back with a lot of force, still have the scar on my finger to remind me of this.

One additional advantage with serpentine belts not mentioned is that the aluminum mounting brackets should reduce weight. The stock V belt setups use heaviver steel brackets. Everything has its pros and cons.

Last edited by Buick Runner; 02/26/22 04:04 PM.

SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

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Originally Posted by Buick Runner
Serpentine belt setups have a couple of disadvantages. Bing a single belt means if it snaps you lose everything. With the multi V belts if one snaps, you just lose one system. Other issue are idler pulleys are wesk links as they often fail before any of the belt driven accessories, this includes the tensor pulley. If the tensor pulley or idler pulleys develop any wobble they will quickly chew up the belt. I seen tensors and idler pulleys having much shorter lives than the belt. Finally the belt tensor is hazardous to work on as they can snap back with a lot of force, still have the scar on my finger to remind me of this.

One additional advantage with serpentine belts not mentioned is that the aluminum mounting brackets should reduce weight. The stock V belt setups use heavier steel brackets. Everything has its pros and cons.


I have a 2008 Suburban with 200k miles on it, I changed the belt 2 years ago because the Dealer said it needed it. I ordered the belt from Amazon before I got it back from warranty repair. Dealer said to change it only because the service manual says it needs changed at "xxx" miles, & because they wanted $75 for the belt & another $45 or so to change it. IT DIDN'T NEED REPLACED. I would have kept driving with it. I have been driving for 36 years & have NEVER had a serpentine belt break. Because of the greater surface area & multiple grooves, the serpentine belt doesn't need near the tension on it that the V belt does. Therefore less wear & longer life.

Last edited by Tunedss86; 02/26/22 09:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by Buick Runner
Serpentine belt setups have a couple of disadvantages. Bing a single belt means if it snaps you lose everything. With the multi V belts if one snaps, you just lose one system. Other issue are idler pulleys are wesk links as they often fail before any of the belt driven accessories, this includes the tensor pulley. If the tensor pulley or idler pulleys develop any wobble they will quickly chew up the belt. I seen tensors and idler pulleys having much shorter lives than the belt. Finally the belt tensor is hazardous to work on as they can snap back with a lot of force, still have the scar on my finger to remind me of this.

One additional advantage with serpentine belts not mentioned is that the aluminum mounting brackets should reduce weight. The stock V belt setups use heaviver steel brackets. Everything has its pros and cons.


Not sure what your issues were but I've had 2 trucks with the near same configuration of serpentine that I'm putting on and never had the first issue. Over 100,000 on one and over 150,000 on the other and never touched a thing except throw a new belt on the one at 100,000. A different serp on my wife's mazda has close to 190,000 and I've not touched it. Probably had 7 or 8 different vehicles with serpentine and never had 1 issue. On the same note I've never had issues with any v belts.

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Wasn't expecting this today but glad it's here. You can also see the 2 ports on the liquid line.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

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Well, the lines coming out of condenser are too low and hit the core support. I could bend the lines or trim the core support but not really wanting to do that. The condenser Bob mentioned above is on Amazon for $88, Looks like I'll try that one.

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Originally Posted by 88ssBrent
Originally Posted by Buick Runner
Serpentine belt setups have a couple of disadvantages. Bing a single belt means if it snaps you lose everything. With the multi V belts if one snaps, you just lose one system. Other issue are idler pulleys are wesk links as they often fail before any of the belt driven accessories, this includes the tensor pulley. If the tensor pulley or idler pulleys develop any wobble they will quickly chew up the belt. I seen tensors and idler pulleys having much shorter lives than the belt. Finally the belt tensor is hazardous to work on as they can snap back with a lot of force, still have the scar on my finger to remind me of this.

One additional advantage with serpentine belts not mentioned is that the aluminum mounting brackets should reduce weight. The stock V belt setups use heaviver steel brackets. Everything has its pros and cons.


Not sure what your issues were but I've had 2 trucks with the near same configuration of serpentine that I'm putting on and never had the first issue. Over 100,000 on one and over 150,000 on the other and never touched a thing except throw a new belt on the one at 100,000. A different serp on my wife's mazda has close to 190,000 and I've not touched it. Probably had 7 or 8 different vehicles with serpentine and never had 1 issue. On the same note I've never had issues with any v belts.



My family had a 1994 Corsica back in ths 90's. It was a pretty good car except for the tensioner which kept wasting pulley bearings which in turn chewed up belts and even snapping a couple of times. We kept changing the complete tensioner every 6 months, tried all sorts of different brands including OEM GM, all kept failing. 15 years ago, the last time I changed the tensioner on that car it somehow slipped off the hold down tool and crushed my left index finger. Thankfully it didn't break any bones but my finger was swollen for a month, and couldn't bend it that whole time. Still have the scar on my finger from it. My post was meant to be a cautious tale about handling tensioners.

Idler pulleys use sealed, lifetime greased bearing cartridges that are similar to bicycle wheel bearings. Generally they have a life of 50 to 70k miles, depending on the quality. The grease in the sealed bearings can dry out and cause premature failure, especially in low grade bearings.

Last edited by Buick Runner; 02/28/22 03:12 AM.

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Originally Posted by 88ssBrent
Well, the lines coming out of condenser are too low and hit the core support. I could bend the lines or trim the core support but not really wanting to do that. The condenser Bob mentioned above is on Amazon for $88, Looks like I'll try that one.



I was just looking at that one too. Nowhere does it say it is parallel flow. How can you tell?

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It's a 6mm piccolo style condenser. Supposedly not as efficient as a true parallel flow style but still more efficient than the serpentine style that came in the car stock. If you search 6mm piccolo vs parallel flow there is articles about the difference.

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I've read the piccolo are ok but prone to clogging and not usually easy to flush because of the small tubes. No experience with one, just what I've read and been told by the guy who i bought my A/C parts from.

When i shopped for the Spectre condenser i always saw it as not available. When I did my A/C R&R this past year I was told i could have a quality, American made condenser made but would have to wait a good while and it was going to be expensive also. As a result still using the original serp condenser. Would have like to do the parallel but time was not on my side.
Brent did you call the guy in AZ that I dealt with? He may have a lead on parts, he's in tune with the whole car A/C world.
https://www.ackits.com/
Bob

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Bob, I will call this morning just to check. Every where I called around 4 weeks ago pretty much told me 4-6 weeks if I was lucky. I like you am starting to run out of time as far as nice weather coming and wanting to get on the road. I've not even been able to find a trace of a grand prix/ regal parallel flow condenser. 6mm piccolo was/is used on millions of furds and for $100 I'll give it a try. Here a small bit on them from ackits.

https://www.ackits.com/parallel-flow-condensers/

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The spectra one on Amazon you linked to above is a Piccolo style.

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Yes, they are 6mm picollo, It's more efficient than the serpentine but not as efficient as parallel flow. The issue is I can't find anyone that makes a g body parallel flow the tubing on the passenger side so it looks like I will be going 6mm picollo.

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Here is some that are universal parallel flow, I think Lance used a 16x28 universal parallel flow and had to do some trimming if I remember correctly.

https://nostalgicac.com/parallel-flow-condensers/painted-condenser.html

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I wonder if the tubes could be bent 180° so they exit on the passenger side.
https://www.originalair.com/1978-1984-chevrolet-el-camino-ac-condenser-parallel-flow

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Brent - I have the March Serp with passenger side A/C. Spent $60 to reverse direction of fittings (cut and reweld) when I flipped an aftermarket condenser. Then I read on this site (always after the fact) that other GM condensers had passenger side fittings and were used and recommended. No idea where this was of which versions but hopefully you can find one that would be a drop in (maybe tweak the mounting brackets?). Otherwise, consider a small cut and weld to the better location/height and direction?
Gordon


1987 Aerocoupe. Frame-off, notched/mini-tub, 383 with AFRs @ 535HP/487TQ, March Serpentine, 304 SS headers (Jet-Hot) & 304 3" dual exhaust w/ Borlas, Janis 200-4R, TrueTrac w/ girdle and Moser 28, Hydroboost, computer delete, lowered, every part replaced or messed with (several times).
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Rockauto has one listed for a Grand Prix but it looks like the line output on the bottom is similar to the one you have now. It might turn up a little tighter but have no idea if it’ll clear.


Original owner of 1985 SS black hardtop w/gray interior. Frame-on restoration in progress. 406 sleeper w/ heavily ported FIRST TPI. 1.875" headers and dual 3.5" Borla exhaust. TH400, Ford 9", anti-roll bar, and notched frame. Dropped 2", 18" wheels, and F/R disk brakes. 10-point cage w/swing-out bars, custom gauges, and audiophile stereo system.
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On the Original Air F-Body condenser, how much would you have to cut from the core support?


87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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After some thought I think I'm going with alternate mounting options for the parallel flow. At first install I was disheartened with the fit of the camaro condenser, after a night of sleep and looking at it again it will be probably a days work to get it mounted right and look nice but i think it will be worth it. A lot of things I've ran across about mounting the f body condenser in the g body it seemed like it just popped right in but after digging and looking at tons of pictures of condensers and looking at some install pictures I don't think it's so simple. Not going to be a huge job just a little thought as far as doing it right and making it look good. Here is a picture I found where someone mounted one, as you can see it's far to the right and the core support has been clearance. The second picture is of my car with the camaro parallel flow in the factory position. I have some ideas on how to mount it, I'll post pictures as I go along, probably be the weekend. I also have the Spectra 6mm piccolo coming from Amazon for the regal. I'm going to return it but it will be interesting to get a look at it .
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

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Is there anyone still making tube #21 in the image below? It is hard line all the way. Or are you just making a new hose with fittings on the ends & flexible in the middle?

[Linked Image]

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Sorry I didn't get back to you about the condenser, I've been out of pocket a bit the last couple of weeks. I went with function over form and clearanced my core support to make the universal fit better condenser work. I also just made all new soft lines. With my bastard setup this seemed like the best route for me to take and I'm long past trying to keep my car OEM looking. Hopefully the rest of your install works out as you'd like it too.


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You won't find the 88-91 camaro liquid line #21 anywhere except Original Air, it's advertised as hard line but when I received it was part hard part soft which was fine by me. Every one that used the completely hard line had to bend it to fit. You can see it in this picture, I really like it that it has 2 ports. One for high pressure switch for fans and you still have a port to hook high pressure gauge to. Ill take better pictures of it when i get home.[Linked Image]

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Ah, I didnt recognize it. Did you buy it individual or in a kit? Is it for G body, or Camaro?


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I got the camaro 88-91 parallel condenser in the car. Actually wasn't as bad as I thought once I removed a piece (pictured) from the radiator support it was held on by 3 "sheet metal screws". I had to trim the radiator support but was still able to use the factory rubber mounts top and bottom in their factory positions, I'll take better pictures once I'm done. I need to clean up the notch and paint the bare metal spots. The hose is from original air for a 88-91 camaro, it was $84 and you can buy it separately.

Overall Im happy with it and I'll be interested to see the performance of the true parallel flow. Interestingly I have read the differences in cheap parallel flow and more expensive parallel flow and the one I have seems to be "better" quality.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

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I just got an email from Vintage Air stating they are about 30 days out from having a G body Olds condenser available that is parallel flow & has fittings on the passenger side.

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I hope it becomes true for others, I called them almost 6 months ago asking if they had any options for passenger side on a g body and they said 30 days.

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DOH.

They Told me price would be around $320. Seems steep considering their universal one is $179 on Amazon.

They also sent me a PDF of the installation instructions of their full kit for the Monte.

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About right on price if it's a good quality true parallel mine was $330. Cheaper parallel condensers will have less tubes running horizontal and less fins per inch running vertical, it's a way they cut cost. If you look on original air they also have install manuals for monte carlo and camaro. They also know alot of people will just pay more for a true bolt in option.

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Which A/C drier/accumulator did you use? A Camaro piece or Monte Carlo?

Fred


87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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In the picture is my old monte carlo accumulator, I'm putting in a new original style accumulator for a 88 Monte Carlo. If you used a camaro accumulator it would be putting the lines more towards the fender. Camaro soft lines should be here Monday and I will take some pictures. First picture is a camaro accumulator, second picture is the Monte accumulator.
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Thank You Brent, I am in the process of putting parts together to get A/C back in my Monte. When I did my TPI conversion, I did not re-connect the A/C because it was not functioning anyway. I looked at Original Air before and their stuff looks good. It appears they have all the parts to get A/C back in my Monte using a Sanden compressor, including the conversion brackets.

Fred


87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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Just to recap, to get the original air 89-91 camaro parallel flow condenser to fit the original mounting you need to remove the shield in the above picture with the 3 screws, notch the passenger side core support as pictured above and gently bend the lines. You can make it fit the factory mounts as is but it's not pretty. It bothered me so I took the brackets on the driver side and flipped them, elongated the holes and that made it possible for it to perfectly match the factory mounting, gained a little over 1/2". I painted everything after, pictures aren't the best but maybe you can see.
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It put more work in but at this point I've bought all the parts and I'm at $815 before tax and shipping. That's including everything that is in the stage 2 from original air except for for pressure switch which I already had, the stage 2 kit is $1075 before tax and shipping.

Here are the few observations and questions I would have about original air if I was going to use their stage 2 or 3. If I was to buy the stage 3 I would want the camaro kit with the Monte evaporator and accumulator, if you used the camaro evaporator and accumulator it would put it directly into the valve cover. If you used stage 2 you would want the camaro kit with the Monte accumulator. For the questions, is the compressor a sanden? Everywhere on their site it says "sanden style compressor". Where do the lines exit from the compressor? I went with the sanden with the gm ports in the back because I like the look of the f body manifold and how the lines route. In their picture it looks like the ports go out the top or the side, not sure about valve cover clearance but i put "tall" 3.5" valve covers on last night and they cleared, barely but they cleared. Just a few minor things to keep in mind, I'm sure the kit is hassle free.

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Nice work Brent.


87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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I pulled all the bolts and fastners off the caprice but if anyone needs to reference here is the list and directions for the gmpp serpentine which is the same. One thing to note with the sanden install is you must drill out the threads on the ac bracket mount. If you get the dirty dingo r4 to sanden brackets it's in the instructions.

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The f body line kinked a little and I was unhappy with it. I ended up taking about 3" off the hose going to the accumulator and replaced the 45° fitting with a 90° at the accumulator. I am really happy with how it has turned out, pictures are a little dark so if anyone needs better pictures let me know.

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I like the look of the line set. Having two ports in the high pressure line is good. With the inner wheel housing in place the line set has plenty of room? And both appear away from the headers.

One thing, with the hp line doing that U bend and the electric fan hp switch hanging out there adding vibration and stress to that hp line thinking I would try to add some kind of a vibration damper to that line to deaden possible movement.
The accumulator to compressor hose/line turned out very nice with that 90.
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I installed the f body belt setup as well and am having the same problem with the manifold line. Do you have a part number for the 90 degree line and crimp the line yourself or did you take it somewhere to have that done? By the way 88ssBrent,nice job on the car. It's going to be nice when you're done.

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I went to the local hydraulic parts place with the original hose and showed them the end and told them I needed it in a 90° fitting. The part number on the receipt is Eaton 75712E-Z91. Not sure if they are all that way but my hose was considered reduced barrier so I needed a reduced barrier fitting. Once I got the fitting I took it home and oriented the way I wanted, marked it, and took it back to get it crimped. You could also call nostalgic air and they could send you a fitting but you would need to find someone to crimp, this seems like the right fitting https://nostalgicac.com/fittings-ho...0-90-degree-female-o-ring-fitting-1.html but im not sure about reduce barrier vs barrier. At the hydraulic parts place it $15.20 total for fitting and crimp.Thank you for the compliments.

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Thanks for the part number!

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Still moving along slowly on the swap. One thing to note is I called sanden and they said that the compressor was full of their pag sp-15, they stated that as long as it was a normal sized system that the compressor had the correct amount and that it did not need to be spread through out the system that it would spread on its own during use. After reading other horror stories of half full compressors I drained the oil and yep it had the correct amount. I was able to get the evaporator core flushed this weekend , my local auto parts store had the flush canister as part of the loaner tool program and a can of fast evaporating flush was $24. All I flushed was the evaporator core everything else is new.
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One of the jobs I tackled today was shortening one of the supports, it was about 3/8" too long due to the compressor being longer. Some people say you don't need the supports and some say you need them. I figure Gm put them there for a reason so here is it being shortened.
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This is from a older post but the tall valve covers are the ones that are on the car now with the sanden serpentine and everything clears. It's really close on one of the compressor bolt heads but it does clear. The other covers in the picture are stock.

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Tried finding a proper belt for the serpentine today, rock auto says a 90 camaro uses a k060945/ 94.50" , GMPP says their serpentine setup uses a 97.25" length. Dirty dingo says use 1"shorter than stock which makes no sense so I did some rough measuring and decide to try a gates micro v k060975/97.54". I feel it's a little short as you can see on the belt tensioner mark so I'm going to try a k060980/ 98.07" to see how that fits. Also one thing I've not mentioned is the compressor I wanted only came with 8 rib pulley, you can find 6 rib pulleys to fit but that's another $200 and I would have had to make other brackets. Dirty dingo has the bracket setup where it rides in the center. It doesn't bother me but I figured I would mention it.
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First picture is with the k060980 /98.07" gates micro v belt, as you can see the belt tension indicator looks better than the picture i posted before. Second picture is one I found from the day I was pulling the serpentine off the 93 caprice. I find it kind of neat to pull this stuff and it live on in another car.

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Looking good.
I don't see a problem with using 6 rib on the 8 rib compressor pulley as long as the spacing between ribs is the same on both belts. I never looked at that spec for the rib belts to know if they do vary.
Belt alignment is always critical when ever you start to mix and match parts from different cars or engine setups. Using a straight edge on the crank pulley front edges you can get a good idea of how the different pulleys run in relationship to each other. Throwing belts or chewing them up in the old days was always a problem when we did non factory parts and mods. Even how the P/S pulley is pressed onto the pump shaft can be a variable.

Once you put a load on an idling engine you will have a good idea of how the belt length and tensioner setup works. Full load from the compressor, alt and P/S pump at idle will show to short, to long quickly. Serp belt setups are usually more forgiving than the old one belt for each accessory.

Painted pulleys can be a problem and squeal until the paint is "broke in". Again may not be as big an issue on serp, generally more belt wrap per pulley that stock V belts especially on the squealer, the P/S pump.

On your floor coverings in the garage, are those what we call diapers? Sorry, a friend's son had a Neon back in his college days. It had that head gasket oil passage leak problem. It had a case of oil in the trunk and when he came home what we called a diaper was under the engine to catch oil dripping. Just a large piece of the wrapper the newspaper rolls came covered in at my work. Just funnin but saw a couple different things under the car in the pics.
Another thing a floor diaper is good for is locating leaks. My daughter's GTP had the diaper for a few weeks. Made it easy to know right above the spot was the corner of that trans pan. Couple loose pan bolts. Gaskets just not what they used to be, I change that about 2 years ago.

Did you get the right wheel housing back in yet? Interested to know how that line set final install turned out with the well back in.

Wondering, how did the pump to steering box high pressure P/S line work out. The P/S pump on the car now is the one pulled from the donor? Interestingly you may notice a difference in how much assist the steering now has if the pump has been changed. Output pressures and volume vary from car to car. When an XH steering box was swapped into my 86 a revalving of the stock SS pump was done, that was 25 years ago. Just something to take note of.

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Was the original setup like this with the anchor point for the brace at the end of the spacer bolt? That concerns me, that enough flexing would cause fatigue. I would have tried to make the brace so it was as close to the header flange as possible.
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Checked off of every pulley with machinist straightedge and everything checked out good. Also checked the rib dimensions on the pulleys vs sanden pulley and everything checked out. The belt tension I was just trying to get close as you said Bob the truth will be told once running. Not sure on the serpentine belt and pulleys being painted but hopefully will find out soon if they squeal from the paint.

As of now nothing leaks but it is a sbc so who knows. In my garage the boss has one rule, she doesn't care one bit what I'm up to but she better have a spot cleared to park her car so right before I close the garage I slide whatever under just to keep the boss happy. Funny story, my dad has a "junk" truck that he does chores in, my house was brand new all nice looking concrete he pulls in and leaves 2 big drips, I said something to him and he said "about 200 more drips and we would be even". We had a good laugh.

No wheel housing back in yet, I don't for see any problems but you never know. I was on a staycation last week and had tons to do around the house, didn't get hardly any time on the car.

Put new o rings on low pressure and high pressure lines as well as a new hose on high pressure without the switch. The steering pump is new, it's off a 90 camaro, it's cardone brand we will see how it does. I tried using the factory monte carlo ss pump but bolt pattern was different. The one on the caprice didn't look too good and the car had lots of miles.

As far as the stud for the brace goes, the gmpp (GM Performance Parts) serpentine kit comes with a 3" oal stud and a 1.5" spacer to attach that brace, it's noted on the last page of the instructions that I posted on the previous page of this thread. The spacer is not in the photo but I made my own spacers and felt it was sticking out pretty far at 1.5" so I ground some on the end of the brace for clearance and the smallest spacer I could use was 1 1/4" long before having to grind to much off the brace or the brace making contact with the header. The manifolds on the caprice were almost 2" thick at the part where the brace attaches on the stock vehicle. I assume gmpp knew that the majority of people buying the kit would be using headers and the brace would contact the headers so they felt ok using the stud and spacer. I just threw a stud I had laying around just to get the brace right. Lots of people don't even use the braces so that's always an option. I have run a stud and 1 3/8" spacer on the factory brackets for the ac mount and not had issues on the other side after almost 2 years, the spacer comes with most header orders so I felt ok with it.

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Here is the brace on the other side for the serpentine. I didn't have to make any modifications to it so I didn't show it. It had a bracket on it from the caprice for wiring but I cut it off.

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and he said "about 200 more drips and we would be even". We had a good laugh.
I'm still laughing!!!!!

Here's a little article i did on the P/S valving.
http://jeffd.50megs.com/Pump_valve_mod_page.ht
Back in the day i found even though the G P/S pump and 3rd Gen F pumps were the same the valving was different on non serp 3rd gen. A trip to see my Chevy dealership parts guy back then confirmed the 3rd gen F used the same "over the counter" pump for all 3rd Gen F, no mention about valving differences. And when I pulled the valving from various 3rd Gen F's at the u-pull they were the same for a V-6 car or and IROC. But all were different valving than a stock SS pump.
Just some useless info.

Bob

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Bob, link wouldn't work so i searched it and looks like the m got cut off when you posted it. I like when you send the links to some of the old pages. When doing the tkx swap in the Monte Marc's t5 garage scene page was great to have. Lots of info on these pages.

http://jeffd.50megs.com/Pump_valve_mod_page.htm

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Originally Posted by 88ssBrent
Bob, link wouldn't work so i searched it and looks like the m got cut off when you posted it. I like when you send the links to some of the old pages. When doing the tkx swap in the Monte Marc's t5 garage scene page was great to have. Lots of info on these pages.

http://jeffd.50megs.com/Pump_valve_mod_page.htm


Bob's instructions are great. I used them last year on my serpentine F-body PS pump.


87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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Fred, what did you do about the bracing on each side?

Did you drive the car any while using the fbody pump and valving with the g body box? Not knowing I made the mistake of turning my pump in for a $40 core charge and didn't even think about the different valving until Bob mentioned it above. I did tons of research on the swap across a lot of different forums and never ran across anything mentioning the valving, evidently I didn't do enough research. The pump I'm using is for a 1990 camaro.

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I believe you will be fine with the 90 F pump. All those replacement pumps whether reman'ed or new have to meet demands of a large number of vehicles. If anything they probable error on the high side.

Somewhere up in the mezz at the shop is valve parts for a Saginaw pump, so we got parts.

Way back a couple decades ago swapping in the 3rd Gen F parts was common on a G-body. Only a very select few F-bodies got 16" tires until the 4th gens came out. Those 16" cars were the ones with the goodies from both Chevy and Pontiac. The late 3rd Gen IROC, TRANS AM GTA and the 1LE Camaro. The XH steering box from those Camaro was the high demand box of those old days, and is still in demand today.
Many other of those high perf 3rd Gen F parts made it to the Gs, the 34 and 36 mm sway bars, 1LE 12" front rotors, 16" wheels, 1LE control arm bushings, 700 and higher front coil springs, ( up to 1000 was an optional spring up front), TPI, T5 with hydraulics, bellhousings, 079 ECM and PROMS, even the ZZ4 engine was born/created to fix the 3rd Gen F.

Point is, when I swapped in the XH box in the 86, 245/50x16 tires/wheels, all new Moog linkage were done at the same time. The L69 was still spinning an automatic and the A/C was working very well. When pulling out of a parking space, turning to the full left you could tell the pump couldn't keep up with the demand, surging. To a parking lot at higher speeds, idling, quick turns left and right showed the pump wasn't keeping up with demand. Valving was then done.

20 years ago from the old paper parts books at the dealership "the man" and I looked at all the 3rd Gen choices for what they said was the part number for those few HP F-bodies produced and ALL the Fs showed the same P/S pump part number for all 3rd Gen in the late 80s into the end in 92. So that is the valving used in the my 86 stock pump.

I started to make a P/S pressure gauge setup that could be easily spliced into the box's input but sourcing a fitting or something silly put an end to that. From most indication i see 1200 psi is a high side, lower depending on what the system has for parts. There are P/S pressure gauge setups available to buy.
http://protecequipment.ca/product/detail/tg-4251-power-steering-system-pressure-gauge

Another thing, use GM P/S fluid. From the people that seem to know what's best for a Saginaw pump. It's got pricey, paid 24 for three qt last time I bought some. I've seen it on the shelf at some of those chain parts stores, Advance, Zone, Boys.
https://fluidchemica.com/10-5030

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Nice work, very clean and well thought out.


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Originally Posted by 88ssBrent
Fred, what did you do about the bracing on each side?

Did you drive the car any while using the fbody pump and valving with the g body box? Not knowing I made the mistake of turning my pump in for a $40 core charge and didn't even think about the different valving until Bob mentioned it above. I did tons of research on the swap across a lot of different forums and never ran across anything mentioning the valving, evidently I didn't do enough research. The pump I'm using is for a 1990 camaro.


Brent, Yes I drove for a couple years with the Fbody PS pump on my serpentine setup without touching the valve. Steering was fine on the road. But I always noticed when parking, the steering wheel would stutter while turning it. As if the pressure or volume was inadequate. I read Bob's instructions and did some research. Bought a Borgensen power steering pump valve kit and also bought some of the parts Bob mentioned in his writeup. I followed his instructions. If I remember correctly I increased the pressure slightly. I think I did replace the spring. The problem went away.

Concerning bracing, I do not have my AC installed yet. That is my next project. I did install the alternator brace that goes from the alternator to the exhaust manifold stud.


87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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Thank you for the compliments 1 Slow SS. That's good to hear on the fbody steering pump Fred, I guess I will fire it up and see what I've got and go from there. One thing that is taking a little longer is I removed everything ccc based and have switched over to a non ccc quadrajet off of a 77 corvette and a dui distributor. It's the way I wanted to go on the new motor and I already had the stuff so I figured I would give it a try. I could have the ccc back up and operational in about 2 days. I haven't brought it up because it is always a sore subject on the forum. I'll go into detail on that on my build thread . Back to the serpentine and ac discussion.

I've been working on lots of details, one of the things I did was measured and ordered a new cable through Ce auto electric supply. I like how their online cable builder is laid out and usually it ships that day. https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/custom-cable-builder/

I tried seeing how f body was ran but couldn't find anything. I have it running from the battery down to the frame, follow the starter cable and turn off down the crossmember following the brake line, comes up to a bracket I made on pan rail to the front of engine, up to the bracket.

First picture is my order form from cable builder, I went 78" should have been 74" but it was my mess up, I made it work. Cable was $52, the other small cable goes to a terminal block. Second picture is new versus old cable. Other pictures are the routing.

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Brent - I am again drafting behind you! I am currently working on point-to-point resistance and voltage drop profiles along my power and ground systems to determine if there are poor contacts resulting from the (now long ago) frame-off painting. I am anticipating replacements the major wires (and some new) with 4AWG (mostly) from them also. Every bit as flexible as people say? Have you upgraded any lines/contacts on the grounding side? Looks wonderful as always.
Gordon


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Gordon, it is very flexible and the easiest I've handled. The 4 awg is 1862 strand oxygen free copper. When I upgraded I did everything including the ground.

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Here is a couple of pictures of the ac lines how they lay with the inner fender in. Everything in the picture is just hand tight and it's the old accumulator. Did get to fire up the car today with the non ccc quadrajet and the dui distributor and it fired right off. Cycled the power steering and everything felt good. Belt tracked good and smooth and settled a bit, I would say the belt I mentioned before is perfect length. Instead of traditional worm gear hose clamps I went with the gates power grip heat shrink hose clamps and so far I'm impressed, only time will tell.

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Great pictures and a great looking install. I'm going to use this thread to assist with my AC setup. That is when I get to it. I'm in the process of removing my dash to get it recovered.

Keep up the good work.

Fred


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Thanks Fred! I know the serpentine swap has been done 100 times over but most of the threads have dead photo links or no photos at all. Also it's a little different twist with the sanden so hopefully it will help people with another option.

Last edited by 88ssBrent; 04/12/22 09:15 PM.
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I've probably put around 100 miles on the new setup and so far everything is good and I definitely like the new look of the engine bay. I've not charged the ac up I'll probably do that in the next week or so. I'll do A final cost of everything on Monday or Tuesday.

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Brent - are you able to shoot surface temps on your headers? The ceramic is supposed to take them down 150-200+ degrees, but of course moves heat toward the collectors. I'd like to compare as mine were baked a bit in the break-in of the new cam. Thanks,
Gordon


1987 Aerocoupe. Frame-off, notched/mini-tub, 383 with AFRs @ 535HP/487TQ, March Serpentine, 304 SS headers (Jet-Hot) & 304 3" dual exhaust w/ Borlas, Janis 200-4R, TrueTrac w/ girdle and Moser 28, Hydroboost, computer delete, lowered, every part replaced or messed with (several times).
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Gordon, hopefully I can get you those numbers tomorrow. I have a fluke temperature gun that I use to check temps, might be a little tricky with the shiny surface but we will see.

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That Looks very nice!!!


87 Monte SS,built a 383,with a 70's block.all forged.Hamburger oil pan.Patriot 190 heads.2004r trans.Hedman headers coated ,
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Originally Posted by DC87Monte
That Looks very nice!!!


Thank you for the compliment Dorian!

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So after about 350 miles this is where the gates K060980 ( 98.07" effective length) ended up, I think the K060975 ( 97.54" effective length) might be a little better.

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Hey Brent I have a stupid question how many accessory holes do you have in your cylinder heads?


87 Monte SS,built a 383,with a 70's block.all forged.Hamburger oil pan.Patriot 190 heads.2004r trans.Hedman headers coated ,
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Originally Posted by DC87Monte
Hey Brent I have a stupid question how many accessory holes do you have in your cylinder heads?


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So here is a cost breakdown of the whole project. If you order the gm serpentine from Summit it's $1376 before taxes, probably a lot less hassle but doing it myself I saved a little money, got the sanden compressor, and the upgraded 140 amp alternator .

Ac delco tensioner 38118 $45
Smog pump delete pulley and bracket 10129569 $55
Ac delco waterpump 88926233 $36
Alternator 140 amp iceberg cs130 $150
Power steering pump 207926 $75
Sanden 4864 FLX7 $231
Dirty dingo r4 to sanden compressor bracket $49
Brackets, braces, and pulleys from pull a part caprice $58
Sandblasting $free
Duplicolor engine primer, semi gloss black, and aluminum cast paint $40
New bolts and hardware $40
Alternator connector Ac delco pt2297 $9
5 watt 50 ohm resistor for volt gauge to alternator $0.05
Gates K060980 serpentine belt $30

Cost for Serpentine setup only is $818 before taxes


The other part of this project was the ac part. The project is complete and hopefully in the next week or 2 I'll charge the system which I will do myself, I have gauges and the local O'Reilly has a vacuum pump on the loaner tool program so just the cost of the needed r134a is all that remains as long as no problems come about.

Original Air condenser 11-215p $322
Original Air liquid line 13-281 $84
Four seasons soft hoses 55451 $81
Eaton 90° fitting to unkink hose to accumulator $16
Oring pack $6
Ac flush for evaporator $24
Sanden sp-15 compressor oil $12
Four seasons 38904 variable orfice tube $10
Gm 151589 accumulator $20
R134a refrigerant $

Cost for ac parts is $575

Cost for new cable from battery to alternator $52

There might be a few small things that I forgot but total cost of project is around $1445. Not cheap but considering other options not too bad.













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Brent, those are the same trick Flow heads I have. Decent heads. maybe not the ultimate at 175cc.but great for the street.

Keep up the good work. Beautiful install.

Fred


87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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I'm happy with them on the 305, if I ever build a 383 I'll probably clean the ports up a little and use them with a pretty sizeable dished pistons. The small runner will work decent for street I would think. Thank you for the compliments.

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Vintage air finally released their parts for the G body with condenser fitting ports on the passenger side. However it is not really made to work with OEM configuration. The condenser itself looks like it is a universal type configuration with fitting ports directly on it on the end, & then a hard line tube is connected to put the fitting near stock (passenger side) location, the other line connects to the dryer directly on the front of the condenser & then a hard line from it to near stock (passenger side) location. they have their own bracketry that mounts it to the core support, it doesn't sit in the saddles like OEM does. It can be made to work, & may work fine, not me as i have a supercharger heat exchanger in front of where condenser would be. I could possible use their condenser with one of their hard lines & make my own for the other & use the OEM dryer in stock location.

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not much room in glove box area

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I think overall it looks like a nice complete kit and price is decent if you were starting from scratch putting air back in a car. The only thing that has me curious is if the firewall cover could be welded in to make a complete metal firewall and how accessible would everything be from inside? Condenser kit alone looks nice and would be a nice addition.

I'm 110% happy with the route I went even using the condenser and making it fit, everything appears factory for the most part. At cruise ins and car shows I actually get ask more questions about my ac setup than anything. There is tons of the gm serpentine out there even on their crates so the questions usually revolve around the sanden compressor, brackets, and the hoses I used. The air is as cold as anything I have ever been in, I once thought about trying to get a hold of some r12 before the upgrade but I would put my ac against any r12 system now.

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Originally Posted by 88ssBrent
I think overall it looks like a nice complete kit and price is decent if you were starting from scratch putting air back in a car. The only thing that has me curious is if the firewall cover could be welded in to make a complete metal firewall and how accessible would everything be from inside? Condenser kit alone looks nice and would be a nice addition.

I'm 110% happy with the route I went even using the condenser and making it fit, everything appears factory for the most part. At cruise ins and car shows I actually get ask more questions about my ac setup than anything. There is tons of the gm serpentine out there even on their crates so the questions usually revolve around the sanden compressor, brackets, and the hoses I used. The air is as cold as anything I have ever been in, I once thought about trying to get a hold of some r12 before the upgrade but I would put my ac against any r12 system now.


I may get this kit after all & use the condenser & one of their included hard lines, make a second hard line so I have fittings close to where OEM would be. Use the tube up to the dryer shown in the early posts, & have hoses made to connect to my compressor mounted low on passenger side (LS Swap).

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Brent, I have a question. I am doing the Sanden conversion. I plan to use the same parts you used. I have started ordering the parts. But I have a question on the 90 degree hose end that you got, Eaton 75712E-Z91. I googled that number and got hits from several companies but the fitting is steel. Is the fitting on your hose steel? The OEM fittings are all aluminum. Does it matter if the fitting is steel or aluminum?

Thanks,
Fred

Last edited by Fred SS; 10/19/22 05:40 PM. Reason: Add additional question

87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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Never put much thought into the material, I just told them what I wanted size wise they had it and put it on. I went to the garage and checked with a magnet and yep its steel.

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Thanks Brent. After doing more research it appears that the fitting is available in both steel and aluminum. I guess it does not matter which material is used if your just dealing with an automotive R12/R134a A/C system. I found a web site, TBI Products, that specifies the reduced barrier 90 degree fitting and they explained the difference with normal barrier fittings. Their web site says that both reduced barrier and barrier hose has the same inside diameter. But reduced barrier hose has a reduced wall thickness that results in a smaller OD. This is done so that the hose can more easily make the tight bends in an automotive engine compartment.


87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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