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#1071868 - 08/30/21 02:19 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Wilson Offline
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88ssBrent
I am fairly close dollar wise to what you have quoted from Strange. The Strange housing is a really nice piece really quality welds and installed liked I had hoped. I put everything together on my workbench and no whining of gearset. Pretty Stoked since this was my first set of gears that I setup. Factory sway bay will not work. Strange stuff is top quality. Looking at HR Parts n Stuff is what I am looking at now.


1987 Monte Carlo SS. 355 SBC 2004R non lock up PTC converter
UMI front and rear control arms. Strange 9 Inch, 31 Spline Axles, 3.89 TruTrac.
#1071870 - 08/30/21 03:28 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Ross, if the factory sway bar is making contact with the center housing, the sway bar can be lowered with a plate mounted to the sway bar holes in the lower control arm with 2 more holes, lower down. That is how an aftermarket sway bar, that I had on my wagon, mounted.

#1071871 - 08/30/21 05:39 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Travis, evidently stuff is not as plentiful down here as it is in Michigan or not having enough gear heads in my circle is the problem. I comb thru marketplace, buick groups, camaro groups, and in the last week have mustang groups, ebay, Craigslist and don't come across much. If I do its gone in no time. Luckily I'm in no hurry and have plenty of time to look if that's the route I choose to go.

I'm a decent welder and have ac/dc tig, mig, and stick at home, also have access to the Mitler axle kit with the stuff to narrow most axles.

Since it seems you have the most knowledge on the 8.8 i have a few questions. Seems like the fox body 8.8 is pretty hard to find and its a 28 spline. Through my internet research g body hub to hub is 58.094, flange to flange is 57.621 per MAP measuring a 87 gn 8.5. The fox body supposedly 58.75", 94-98 has the 31 spline with larger axle tubes and width is 60.25" then 99-04 is 61.0625. I assume all of these would work using the trick chasis setup but the latter would need to be shortened and new axles along with issues as far as figuring out brakes and lug pattern.

Ive seen quite a few like this that range from $500- $700.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/01-Ford-Mu...46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0.

From what I have seen I believe I could do a nice 8.8 for $1500-$2000 using the trick chassis setup, 5-4 3/4 axles and figure out the brakes, but that just a quick estimate.

Then you have the explorer rear end,it looks like I could use this type setup for it. https://southsidemachineperformance.com/shop-1/ols/products/gbody88swap not really sure on the width but like I said earlier i want to keep my n90's.

Lots to ponder on all options.

#1071872 - 08/30/21 06:53 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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T5montecarlo Offline
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The mid 70s Monte Carlos/Chevelles and the Impalas into the 80s have 8.5-inch rears and a 4-link rear suspension, but I haven't seen anyone making an adapter kit to fit the upper control arms to a 78-88 A/G body. Narrowing to the width of the stock rear would be required and then off-the-shelf axles could be used. These axles are usually cheap to buy.

#1071874 - 08/30/21 08:41 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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The Explorer 8.8 is not centered, with one tube nearly 3" longer than the other. If you didn't mind the 5x4.5 Ford pattern, a popular modification is to get a second stock short side axle, cut the long tube to match, and use short axles on both sides to center up the rear end housing and get it to a more reasonable length (56.5" according to the link below). I'm sure folks have drilled stock axles to the Chevy pattern, but if you get new axles it should not be hard to get them in the proper length and the proper wheel pattern, and adjust your cut accordingly. Looks like the Moser site has it for $310 +$50 or so for shipping and you name your length and bolt pattern, as well as stud preference etc. Redrilling the brake rotor is a popular option for keeping the Ford factory discs.

I have seen the Southside Machine stuff and am very interested, but I don't know enough to know what I don't know on the geometry etc for that. popcorn

https://thefabricatorseries.com/bui...lorer-88-rear-axle-part-1-prelude-and-qa


Shawn

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1071875 - 08/30/21 09:23 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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88ssBrent Offline
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A couple of nights ago I watched both episodes of the fabrication series. He also has tons of info on his page concerning the explorer 8.8. I dont quite understand the rear geometry either but while we are discussing and it being an option that im going to explore the g body strange s60 also has the mounting points raised "to deal with the instant center issue" it would be great to hear from someone with experience and what will that do for a street car and what is the instant center issue our cars have?

#1071878 - 08/30/21 10:19 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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T5montecarlo Offline
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They are supposed to suffer from wheel hop. I think it was Edelbrock that made a product that bolted to the factory bushing and provided a new mount position for the upper control arm. The mounts on the 8.5 are naturally a little higher than the 7.5. The 9-inch and Dana are higher still, so they help to reduce wheel hop.

It appears that QA1 now makes them; the patent must have expired.
[Linked Image]

#1071879 - 08/30/21 11:14 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Wilson Offline
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Drove mine a few hours ago. I can really tell the difference between old 7.5 and the new 9, wants to hook but leaves 2 nice black marks with no wheel hop.


1987 Monte Carlo SS. 355 SBC 2004R non lock up PTC converter
UMI front and rear control arms. Strange 9 Inch, 31 Spline Axles, 3.89 TruTrac.
#1071881 - 08/31/21 12:48 AM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: Wilson]  
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88ssBrent Offline
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What are you shopping for on HR Parts and stuff?

#1071882 - 08/31/21 12:56 AM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Next up is the strange s60, looks like a really nice rearend.

"Dana 60 G-Body Rear End with spool & 35 pro race axles" https://www.strangeengineering.net/...ck-35-s-t-axles-coil-spring-mounts.html/

It has a lot of nice features. Just like the others im pricing it with not powder coating and 11" drum brakes.

Rearend is $2340
11" drum brakes $495
Helical gear differential upgrade $320
Total= $3155

#1071883 - 08/31/21 01:36 AM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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T5montecarlo Offline
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No LPW cover? or chrome moly yoke?

Why do you want to increase the rear braking ability?

#1071884 - 08/31/21 01:42 AM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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BadSS Offline
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Yep, not a lot of hot-rodders around here swapping out stuff - as Brent said, there may be a deal or two pop up on craigs list, but not often and they go fast. Seems adding a supercharger to a newer LS is the thing to do now (actually considering it for my G8 GT). Also, the bone yards around here think their junk is the new world currency standard - no deals around here anymore. They're all connected and selling stuff over the internet asking premium pricing. I have found about half the time I can buy a new part for about the same money - I guess there are people out there that don't check pricing?

I think that 8.8 rear would be a good option for you with your fabrication skills. I was cruising the ole interweb and ran across this Ranger site listing some 8.8 rear ends.
https://www.therangerstation.com/tech/ford-8-8-inch-rear-axle-history-and-specs/

You've probably already seen this one:
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/how-to-swap-ford-rear-into-a-gm-g-body/

I haven't personally measured, but the tech from one of the brake and kit manufacturers posted on one of the sites I stumbled on, that on average the disk brake rotors adds about 0.12 to 0.15" per axle over drums.

Anyway, thought those tidbits might be helpful.

#1071888 - 08/31/21 10:04 AM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Wilson Offline
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Looking at one of their rear sway bar packages. Talked them yesterday. I was initially worried that it would be overkill but after talking on the phone it can be adjusted for street use also. Gonna make a purchase in next few weeks. Then finally this project will be wrapped up.


1987 Monte Carlo SS. 355 SBC 2004R non lock up PTC converter
UMI front and rear control arms. Strange 9 Inch, 31 Spline Axles, 3.89 TruTrac.
#1071893 - 08/31/21 04:13 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: Wilson]  
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Originally Posted by Wilson
Looking at one of their rear sway bar packages. Talked them yesterday. I was initially worried that it would be overkill but after talking on the phone it can be adjusted for street use also. Gonna make a purchase in next few weeks. Then finally this project will be wrapped up.

This one is sold but has some useful links... http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1069552#Post1069552

I was considering using this particular setup but didn't want to shell out the money for the HR Parts plus it might be overkill. lol Couple of web searches, turned up people using the same setup but oem parts from either S10s or Camaros. I have everything to do an S10 setup except for the end links. Reason I was considering this setup is due to running a non-stock rearend i.e. '68-'72 12-bolt that may alter lower control arm geometry plus the kit I own the lower control arms don't have holes for a sway bar. Ironically post #5 has a picture of a 8.8... https://gbodyforum.com/threads/rear-sway-anti-roll-bar.71646/

#1071895 - 08/31/21 05:24 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: T5montecarlo]  
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Originally Posted by T5montecarlo
No LPW cover? or chrome moly yoke?

Why do you want to increase the rear braking ability?


I talked to a guy at strange. He felt there was no need with the power level I have planned. Not sure on flange yet so I was just trying to price something common with all them to get an idea so I have just been pricing them all with 11" drum.

#1071897 - 08/31/21 08:28 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Wilson Offline
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I went with the drum brakes myself to simplify things. Personally didn't want to goof with the emergency brake cable and bracket on most disc brake setups. Wilwood with internal parking brake would have been sweet but then again cost vs the actual need. 11 drums work just fine for around town. Saved a few bucks on the drum brakes from Quick Performance vs Strange. I believe 150 bucks cheaper.


1987 Monte Carlo SS. 355 SBC 2004R non lock up PTC converter
UMI front and rear control arms. Strange 9 Inch, 31 Spline Axles, 3.89 TruTrac.
#1071911 - 09/01/21 03:00 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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SSLance Offline
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Sounds like you've got most of the questions in place and answered Brent, now you just need to decide.

I will say the prices are WAY higher than they were when I did mine, I think I was all in for less than $2,000 when I did my QP9.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1071912 - 09/01/21 06:22 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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AkronAero Online content
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Brent, you have well documented parts costs for complete upgrade to the 7.5 including Trutrac and 28 spline Moser axles, which was my route. I already had the Moser girdle for the diff. My driveline guys also showed me potential wear problems so upgraded remaining gm parts and replaced seals and bearings all for $1500. A point of reference, and only took half a day. A solid option for most of us.....
Gordon

#1071935 - 09/04/21 05:07 AM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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As with all these little upgrades we do it become costs verses gains verses ego.

The 500 dollar option.
Your 7 1/2 is very low miles, you could simple pull the carrier and install a Powertrax in an afternoon. I drove Steve's 85 with a T5, 7 1/2" with that unit install. Behaved like a posi, but at times you could feel the unit release when turning from a stop. Not annoying, just noticeable.
Adding a girdle, axles and bearings could be done later as your needs change. With just that Powertrax you could wear out both rear tires at the same time, and it looks better when you can peal two stripes.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwt-92-0775-2605

My Astro van, 5000 lbs, has a 7 1/2" with 3.73s, no posi. The only thing I have every done to it is change the gear oil once at 141K, it now has 292K. Guess i should change it again. Not.

The 2000 dollars option.
8 1/2" isn't an option anymore. If you can find a housing for reasonable, build it to handle some power and tires, your into the 2K range, and still using your 9 1/2" rear brakes. Could just have the back end of your driveshaft cut off and a 1350 joint used.
Have built the 87 Olds 442 rear in the 86 twice now. Only used just the housing, 3.73, and axles the first time, paid 600 bucks. later an axle journal failure fix was installing Moser's.
Second time changed to a 30 spline Truetrack, Moser axles and 4.11s. Soon will pull the 4.11s and reinstall the 3.73.
Disadvantage, a Spicer type rear is easiest to rebuild on a workbench if you can't walk under the car. Also a C-clip rear just like the 7 1/2". Also the goofy three bolt mount flange for the rear brakes.

9" option
A ton of good parts for them, the most common replacement, you get what you pay for. Only real problem i have with a 9" is everyone calls it a Ford 9". As a Chevy guy at heart putting those foreign parts in the 86 just couldn't happen.
When my son graduated HS we bought a 78 Z-28, healthy 350, TH350 and a 9" with 3.89 gears. That rear gave me fits over a leaking axle bearing/seal. Twice replaced the bearing and seal on the same side, then replaced the axle, then had a mechanic friend replace that bearing and seal. Got tired of cleaning up the mess, sold the car, the other alternative was to put a 12 bolt in it.
I see 9" used everywhere, easier to pull the pumpkin if needed, easier to set backlash, strong enough for most everyone

Moser 12 bolt.
Plenty strong, will look like it belongs there, most likely the easiest rear to put a set of brakes on.

S60 option.
Another Spicer rear, built right almost indestructible, maybe the most horsepower required to spin it of all the choices, maybe the heaviest, if built to bolt right into a G-body perfectly, only need to touch it once if built right.

If i was shopping now the S60 would be the serious contender. Partly because I grew up with several friend's cars having the Dana 60, saw them all the time in different drag race uses. One you choose the R&P, diff type you're done.

Rear brakes:
If other than stock is used my choice would be a 12" rotor and alum calipers with park brake. I feel the 11" drum maybe to aggressive, especially with stock front brakes. Sooner or later upgrading the fronts to 12, or even 13 would make for a nice brake package, a 12-12 would be huge upgrade for a stock system. So don't spend money twice on rear brakes.
Also rear width relative to wheel backspacing can be influenced by the brake setup, drum verses disc. The old measure twice cut once rule.

Bob

#1071938 - 09/04/21 01:43 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Bob, still undecided but if I was to go with a 9" rear end I would go with the currie housing, tappered bearings and oe stye brackets in the oe position. The housing is not cheap but its the only one I've found in the 9" categorie that would check all my boxes for the 9".

"GM G-Body Housing and Axle Package - Currie Enterprises" https://www.currieenterprises.com/78-88-gm-g-body-9-inch-housing-and-axle-package

Last edited by 88ssBrent; 09/04/21 01:44 PM.
#1071944 - 09/05/21 09:04 AM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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BadSS Offline
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Well, the Currie set up wasn't cheap in 1988 dollars either, but was about the only game around at the time - unless I trusted someone locally to set up a housing for me, which I didn't - lol. All I can say is I drove the car daily until 1992 and probably put close to 70,000 miles on it and made hundreds of quarter mile passes without so much as a leak. Now, I did scrounge the junk yards for a nodular center section and bought the locker and gears separately to save a few buck compared to Currie - as I said, they were expensive even back then.

I was a little concerned about the rearend after nearly pole-vaulting the car, but it wasn't making any noise when I got the car back on the road and I kept driving it. When I did get around to dropping down from the 3.89s to a more friendly 3.50 gear, there was very little wear on the gear set and it was a piece of cake setting up the new gears with the chunk sitting on the bench.

#1071945 - 09/05/21 02:24 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Not to steal the thread, but what's thoughts on using a late 60'/early 70's A body 12 bolt? From what I can tell, it just needs different upper control arms to mount. Yes it is wider, but thats ok, can make up for that with deeper offset rear wheels.

#1071947 - 09/05/21 07:19 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: Tunedss86]  
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It is an option thats out there, umi has a kit for the conversion. The problem for me is every one of them uve ran across has not been cheap.

"1978-1988 GM G-Body 12-Bolt Swap Lower Control Arm and Adjustable Upper Control Arm Kit - UMI Performance Inc." https://www.umiperformance.com/home...rm-and-adjustable-upper-control-arm-kit/

Last edited by 88ssBrent; 09/05/21 07:39 PM.
#1071949 - 09/05/21 08:34 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Originally Posted by 88ssBrent
It is an option thats out there, umi has a kit for the conversion. The problem for me is every one of them uve ran across has not been cheap.

"1978-1988 GM G-Body 12-Bolt Swap Lower Control Arm and Adjustable Upper Control Arm Kit - UMI Performance Inc." https://www.umiperformance.com/home...rm-and-adjustable-upper-control-arm-kit/


They told me the lowers are the same as the 7.5/8.5 G body rears & only the uppers are unique.

#1071952 - 09/05/21 09:47 PM Re: Rearend Planning! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Fred SS Offline
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Originally Posted by 88ssBrent
It is an option thats out there, umi has a kit for the conversion. The problem for me is every one of them uve ran across has not been cheap.

"1978-1988 GM G-Body 12-Bolt Swap Lower Control Arm and Adjustable Upper Control Arm Kit - UMI Performance Inc." https://www.umiperformance.com/home...rm-and-adjustable-upper-control-arm-kit/


How much wider is an A-Body 12-Bolt over the 7.5 G-body?

Fred


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9.
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