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#1071497 - 08/08/21 01:55 AM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Kevin, I must say you were lucky on that one. I saw a car insurance guy on a hotrod show one time talking about the main thing he sees is that hotrod guys for the most part carry fire extinguishers but that they are never big enough.

Dropped my driveshaft off Thursday they said it should be done Monday, new joints on both ends and balanced. The original length is 52 3/8" and the new length will be 49 3/8", so a total of exactly 3" shorter. Driveline shop told me to push yoke all the way in and pull it out 1". Measure from center cap of rearend yoke to center cap of driveshaft yoke. Cost for the driveshaft mods is $180, ill have a complete cost when im done im thinking around $5300 for whole job.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

This is the dust boot that came from silver sport, I put some sealant between it and the sheetmetal.

[Linked Image]

Everything is done on interior and im pretty happy with it. Bob helped me out on the shift ball and it was the exact look I was going for, Sikky 8" handle, and a c5 shifter boot. I know some people like the boot to the knob but I like a little stick showing.

[Linked Image]

Right now I have everything done for the most part except for bleeding the master cylinder, getting headers, driveshaft, and a few odds and ends. Hope to have it on the road by the weekend. Driveshaft and headers should be done Monday. While I had time I did an oil change, cut the filter open and everything looked good. Pulled the valve covers just to go over everything and once again all looked well.

[Linked Image]

#1071499 - 08/08/21 04:11 AM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Getting it done!
So 1" shorter than stock center to center, good to know info for others doing the same swap. Also 1" of slip yoke end play is more than adequate. The reason for all that end play is because the rear housing has an unequal length control arm four link and causes the pinion yoke to move farther away on droop and closer on compression of the rear. That 1" endplay is enough to compensate for driveline length change.

Shortening the stock shaft is the smart thing to do right now as long as you act rationally and don't get carry away with banging gears and sticker tires. We all know how that can happen.
G shafts were never known for quality, balance and straight were issues.
I think the intent is to spend some more funds to do a rear upgrade in the future. At a 180 bucks that should get you a good shaft until the next round of improvements.

I like the shifter look, really clean and subtle. The guys that look at it in wonder will next look to see a third pedal is down there. Cool.

Something i did to hold that top boot up higher on the shifter was a thick black O-ring is under the the boot, stretch around the shifter handle to prevent the boot sliding down. Leather over time get softer. When I machined my shifter handle a step was included to hold the 0-ring in place.

Where the steering column drops out of the firewall is the arm that was used for the column lockout. I believe I cut it off, no need for it anymore, NO AUTOMATIC.

On the top of the column is the bowl which is rotated by the lockout shaft and lever to lock the column. Without that linkage the bowl can be rotated by hand. As a stick shift car now you always keep the bowl rotated counter clockwise.

Almost done.
Bob

#1071501 - 08/08/21 12:29 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Brent, it looks superb!

Does the TKX have a different spline count than the automatic (same as TH350, Saginaw, and early T10)? or did you just want to use a new yoke?

Bob, the new yoke has a different distance from the joint and the outer sleeve than the original yoke, so the length of the new shaft is specific to using that yoke. A length using an original yoke would be needed to determine the amount cut when reusing the original yoke.

Brent, when you get the new shaft and old yoke back, would you please measure the driveshaft length using the old yoke as a reference? It would be good to know that length, and to compare to the 2.75" difference measured earlier. Of course, the booted rear seal will affect the measurement, so please measure the stick-out of the boot as well.

If you didn't have the booted seal, the new length measured would have been longer.

Last edited by T5montecarlo; 08/08/21 12:33 PM.
#1071503 - 08/08/21 02:17 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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200-4r is a 27 spline count, tkx is 31 spline count.

When I get the driveshaft back I will take some more measurements so we can compare.

#1071504 - 08/08/21 03:07 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Does the shop cutting the driveshaft know you have an extended booted rear seal? By extending the yoke 1 inch past the boot, less yoke is inside the transmission than if you had a flat seal.

Is the boot flexible enough to support the yoke being closer to the boot?

Please share the photo of your rear seal and yoke with the shop before they start cutting to get their thoughts.

#1071507 - 08/09/21 01:54 AM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Marc, good pickup on the difference in yokes.
Here's how Denny's Driveshaft wants the shaft measured.
https://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/img/File/how_to_measure_diagrams/a.html
Bob

#1071510 - 08/09/21 02:05 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Knoxville driveline said push yoke in, pull out 1", measure from center of rear bearing cap to center point of yoke where center of front bearing cap would be. The more I thought about all my previous measurements I called this morning and had them add 1/4" to make it a measurement of 49 5/8" which will bring the difference to 2 3/4" . The outer part of seal is very pliable. From the end of output shaft its 1/4" to the end of the seal. Picture of seal which i think is pretty common amongst tremecs.

[Linked Image]

I was able to talk my wife into helping me bleed everything and it went well. Cushion for the csc has to be between 1/8" and 3/8", after measuring everything i was right at a 1/4" cushion. Just for noting it the wilwood master cylinder has a bore of 0.750" and stroke of 1.400". The concentric slave cylinder has .910" total available travel minus the cushion so that should put me at around 0.660" total travel , silver sport states that most clutches release within 1/2" of travel so we will say my number is around 5/8". Looking through the inspection hole I feel I'm getting the total travel needed.

Going through the silver sport "engine off test sheet" I feel everything is good to go. Once I get my headers and driveshaft I'll move on to the "engine on test sheet". I will say with me being a first timer on the manual swap that their sheets have everything covered for the most part. Here is all their different manuals for everything they have.

https://shiftsst.com/installation-manuals

Marc's website has been invaluable for referencing lots of things also.

https://garage-scene.com/wp/t5-into-ag-body/

What silver sport lacks Marc and Bob's knowledge make up for it when it comes to the manual swap.

#1071515 - 08/09/21 04:42 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Every day, you are a little bit closer; keep up the good work. I am glad Bob and I were able to help you along the way.

You can sort of test the clutch disengagement by having someone depress the clutch pedal when in gear and see if you can turn the tailshaft. A yoke would help, but you could wait until you get your driveshaft and use it to see if the tailshaft rotates. The yoke you pictured, looked like a TH400/Super T10 style yoke.

#1071526 - 08/10/21 01:46 AM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Driveshaft or headers were not done today like I was told they would be so another day goes by. I cut and rounded off the tab on the column that the linkage attaches to. Also pulled the dash apart and removed the pointer and sprayed the gear indicator plate low gloss black.

[Linked Image]

#1071528 - 08/10/21 02:41 AM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Looks fantastic!

#1071535 - 08/10/21 01:32 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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One thing I didnt put in detail is where the shifter falls into place. When you remove the original shifter you have 2 riv-nuts, the tkx shifter is dead between them. To center the shifter in the hole of the console I had to move the console forward 2 1/2". You are limited on where to place the hole in the console top plate because of where the automatic shifter hole is already cut. Here is a picture of a Monte Carlo floor that i stole from the internet. The orange dots represent where my new holes are to mount the back of the console, the white circled holes are the original holes, and the red measurements were already on the stock photo.
[Linked Image]

You can see the difference in these 2 photos where my gauge pod sits, before and after. I actually feel like my gauges and armrest are in a better position now.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

For the front mount I cut the front bracket off the old shifter, manipulated the legs that originally bolted to the 2 rivnuts and now it is mounted in by the front bolts on the dust boot that is pictured in a couple post up. Then I clearanced the plastic and metal for the shifter boot and everything just bolts right in. I will try to remember to get a picture when I pull the top plate.


Last edited by 88ssBrent; 08/10/21 03:01 PM.
#1071593 - 08/14/21 02:21 AM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Not much to update other than I have all my pieces, probably be Sunday or Monday and the car will be on the road as long as no issues. I did put the car in 1st gear and had my wife push clutch in, able to spin the drive shaft so thats good. Not sure if it matters but the front u joint is a 1330 and the slip yoke is a 31 spline, new joint in the rear but they its same as oem. 49 5/8" center joint to center joint for driveshaft length. Now I have right At 3/4 " from dust seal.

[Linked Image]

#1071595 - 08/14/21 03:43 AM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Hmmmmm. Today Fri, Sun is not that far away. Good to see the new shaft wasn't an eternity.

I may have mentioned earlier but you can drill a 5/8" hole in the bottom of the bell that aligns with the face of the flywheel, Push the clutch pedal to the floor and check with a .035" feeler gauge 10" long and check disc clearance that way.
Driving the car and shifting will be the final test to see if you have enough disengagement.

Be nice to the clutch for the first 500 miles, don't over heat it. They unusually require a break in period. And during that period the disc will lose a little thickness which effects the clearance.
With mechanical clutch linkage pedal free play at the top of the pedal stroke is your wear indicator, increased free play mean disc is thinner. This doesn't work as well with hydraulics, it becomes more about feel, engagement point.

Well done, absolutely necessary to black out that auto shift pattern at the speedo.

Console 2 1/2" forward.
Shifter location for-aft is one of those positions dependent upon a lot of variable. My shifter is 2" reward of your's and I sit probably closer at 5-9 tall, and getting shorter. I drive my auto trans cars with the seat way to the rear, the 86 I drive more up on the wheel, mostly to have excellent clutch pedal feel.

I would think this holds true for the new TKX, it's sibling, T56, have a hands off rule. When not shifting there is no reason to have your hand rapped around the knob and playing with it. Because it is a rail system any movement or pressure on the shifter can cause rail movement. This in turn puts pressure on the fork sleeves that should be sitting in neutral land, but instead are pushing on the synchro. The T56 sleeves where plastic, since an upgrade was brass or bronze, but both suffer from being a shifte/fil. I would also thing the TKX now has a better idea for the sleeves being you can beat on it with 7K flat out shifts.

Point was don't allow the shifter to become home for your right hand, Tremec and Rockland Standard made a point of that.

Oh, by the way that is some nice carpet you have there!
bOB

#1071601 - 08/14/21 12:34 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Originally Posted by mmc427ss
Be nice to the clutch for the first 500 miles, don't over heat it. They unusually require a break in period. And during that period the disc will lose a little thickness which effects the clearance.
With mechanical clutch linkage pedal free play at the top of the pedal stroke is your wear indicator, increased free play mean disc is thinner. This doesn't work as well with hydraulics, it becomes more about feel, engagement point.

When the disc wears, the freeplay decreases; the fingers get closer to the release bearing. Does that mean the trans needs to come out periodically to reshim the release bearing?


Brent, we are impatiently awaiting your review of the first drive!

Last edited by T5montecarlo; 08/14/21 12:35 PM.
#1071607 - 08/14/21 06:41 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: T5montecarlo]  
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Originally Posted by T5montecarlo
Looks fantastic!


I have to second that!! Absolutely beautiful work and outcome! I'm sure it will drive as good as it looks!

#1071614 - 08/15/21 01:40 AM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Well got 80 miles on the car today. Wow, definitely like a new car and it really brings the 305 to life. There is no way someone could explain how much it changes the character of the car. Way more fun now!!!!

#1071616 - 08/15/21 03:29 AM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Awesome!!!
80 miles, that's show a lot of confidence in the build.

Yep, like a whole different car.
ENJOY!
Bob

#1071618 - 08/15/21 12:09 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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I can see that smile from here!

#1071619 - 08/15/21 12:36 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: T5montecarlo]  
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Concerning clutch wear and readjustment using a hydraulic throwout bearing he talks about it at around 6:50 minute mark in this video.

https://youtu.be/qPo-pqDep5g

#1071636 - 08/16/21 03:47 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Nice! Glad to hear it's out and about. I concur with the personality change, it's massive.

How many days total to do the swap?


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1071647 - 08/16/21 10:36 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Took me i think about 2.5 weeks, I've had a big project at work (its done now)so I've been putting in 60-70 hrs./week so that limited my time on it then I had to wait on my driveshaft and headers. If a person had everything sitting there i think it could be done easily in 3-4 days.

#1071656 - 08/17/21 12:13 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Mine took 20 days and I thought that was pretty fast. Nice work on the plan and the execution.

I bet you find any excuse you can to drive the car now for a while...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1071659 - 08/17/21 06:46 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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Lance, I've owned a few manuals through the years but never worked on them, I started this project not even knowing how a pressure plate worked, true story. I really like the Silver Sport setup, I was able to pick and choose what I wanted and what I didnt want and they gave me options and explained different things. Their instructions were layed out really well and I was glad they had them so I could look through them and plan ahead. What few details were not in there I could find on Marc's t5 site and as always Bob was a goldmine of info and also brought some things to my attention.

Drove the car the first day and its been nothing but rain since thanks to this tropical depression, but I do go out and sit in it every couple of hours and shift through the gears.

Also I need to add that the Idle problem and my voltage issue is gone now. I hope everyone remembers this was the easy fix for it. Only cost me about $5400.

Last edited by 88ssBrent; 08/17/21 07:53 PM.
#1071661 - 08/17/21 07:53 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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So here is a break down of the cost:

TKX transmission $2795
Spicer 6041x slip yoke $100
Rubber isolator transmission mount $9
SN17 Gm speedometer cable adaptor $26
21 tooth red speedometer gear $18
backup light pig tail $20
57080 needle bearing $14
Trans to bellhousing hardware $8
Rubber isolator to crossmember hardware $5
Rubber Isolator to transmission hardware $5
Billet steel flywheel 153 tooth external balance $300
Flywheel to crank bolts $17
10.5" clutch set $260
Pressure plate bolt set $17
G body hydraulic clutch actuator system $649
G body gm pedal conversion kit $200
3 quarts transmission fluid $18
High temp fluid dot4 for master cylinder $24
Rubber shifter boot with metal ring $28
C5 corvette leather shifter boot $58
Hardware to remount crossmember to frame $5
Sikky 8" shifter rod $40
Metal Bellhousing dust cover $20
Driveshaft shortened with new joints and balanced $180
Steel clutch alignment tool $50

A few more parts that you will need that Bob helped me out on while going through his inventory. Thank you Bob!

403 153t bellhousing
Clutch pedal safety start switch
Black shifter ball
Reverse light pigtail from column plug to transmission

Another cost that some will have is for a crossmember. I was able to slide my g-force 2004r crossmember forward and drill new holes in the frame. To get the angle right I used a 1/4" spacer between the crossmember and rubber isolator.

$4861 and throw in another $500 for tax and shipping for a total of $5361 which I think is pretty good for the project. Definitely not cheap but thats real world cost. I'm sure I'm missing some things that I will add as I remember and if anyone has questions about part numbers I'll be glad to give them.



Last edited by 88ssBrent; 08/18/21 12:34 AM.
#1071662 - 08/17/21 08:31 PM Re: 88ssBrent's Build! [Re: 88ssBrent]  
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This is still one of the best solutions for an idle issue I've seen!

Glad you are enjoying it, I'm adding this to the list of things I'd love to do if I ever have the opportunity, and I think the tkx would be the route I would go...


Shawn

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
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