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#1065416 - 03/14/20 02:26 PM Hey gusy  
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Cheford Offline
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Cheford  Offline
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Ottawa, Ontario
Need help.

What’s the process in moving away from CC system? The carb, distributor and can are CC stock, I’m putting in a 383ci with NON-CC carb, cam, distributor. What do I need to do to get it to run proper?


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#1065420 - 03/14/20 04:55 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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BadSS Offline
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It depends on if you have the large in-cap or small cap remote coil or not, along with what kind of new distributor you have. If your SS came with the computerized large in-cap coil distributor and your new distributor is a large cap non-computer HEI, it's as simple as plugging in the same hot and tach wire into the new dizzy and moving the computer's wiring harness out of the way.

#1065423 - 03/14/20 05:37 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Richie Cat Offline
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Originally Posted by Cheford
Need help.

What’s the process in moving away from CC system? The carb, distributor and can are CC stock, I’m putting in a 383ci with NON-CC carb, cam, distributor. What do I need to do to get it to run proper?

Well since your not using the CCC system.
Set the engine up anyway you want. If using a 200R4 trans, either run a manual valve body with non locking converter or get a kit so lock up happens in 4th with it and adapt something to the carb to work with the TV cable.
Good luck with your build.


83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#1065424 - 03/14/20 05:50 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Cheford Offline
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Ottawa, Ontario
I apologize for being vague I was half asleep. So the distributor I bought was the MSD Streetfire HEI I believe.

Adapt what to the carb? I know I needed tv cable brackets and kickdown bracket, or are you referring to flicking a switch to activate my choke?


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#1065425 - 03/14/20 06:11 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Richie Cat Offline
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No
First there is no kickdown cable, that cable at the carb is the TV cable.
If you have a TH350 then that cable is for kick down/passing gear.
You are a person that are starting to make mistakes from the get go.
The electric choke gets its 12 volt supply from the car itself from an oil pressure switch next to the distributor (dizzy I hate that word, we are not in Australia).
The adapter on the carb is a piece that would bolt to the primary throttle shaft to get the geometry correct to work with the TV cable.
Please read before you start to explore your ideas.
Don't spend good money and make mistakes like so many have done before.


83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#1065427 - 03/14/20 06:17 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Richie Cat]  
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Cheford Offline
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I was told by the tech guys at summit racing that I need the kickdown bracket and tv bracket for a 200R4 and the Holley carb. Those were ordered 1yr ago. O


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#1065429 - 03/14/20 08:01 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Richie Cat Offline
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Good luck with your project.


83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#1065438 - 03/15/20 01:07 AM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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86ttop Offline
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Brooksville, Fl
Originally Posted by Cheford
I was told by the tech guys at summit racing that I need the kickdown bracket and tv bracket for a 200R4 and the Holley carb. Those were ordered 1yr ago. O



the Summit guys are salespersons, listen to the folks on this website that have been there and done that and good luck with your car!!


Leo Paugh
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POW*MIA
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#1065461 - 03/15/20 05:28 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Cheford Offline
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Ok so basically I just need to run power to my distributor or plug in the tach and power wires.

Install my Holley bracket for the tv cable

And hook everything else up the same?

It’s a project car going slow one section at a time, the engine is this summers project just to drive it. And exhaust

Winter will be suspension/chassis

Spring 21 will be interior

Winter 21 body and paint

Spring 22 will be better motor and trans and then it should be done for a few months


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#1065462 - 03/15/20 05:40 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Richie Cat Offline
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So where are you going ?
Stay with the subject matter at hand.
What help is needed right now ?


83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#1065463 - 03/15/20 05:59 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Cheford Offline
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You’ve already helped. At this stage just need help with going form CCC components to non CCC


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#1065670 - 03/24/20 11:56 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Ethan Offline
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The holley carb is a good way to go if you're going without the ccc crap.

With the HEI distributor you should just be able to plug the wires running thru your firewall that came off the old one. (At least that's how my car was when I still ran an HEI)

Since the car won't have that ccc distributor you should just be able to remove all off the ccc components, since they don't serve a purpose anymore. That's how it was done on my car.

As far as the kickdown/tv cable for (assuming you have the 200 r4 tranny) see if you can have a local reputable tranny shop set that up for you. That cable needs to be set right or it'll burn the transmission up quickly. I had my tranny built so the builder set that cable up for me upon install.

Also assuming your tranny and rear are stock that's going to be something you want to upgrade. If that's a healthy 383, those won't live too long behind it if you beat on the car, so I'd add those to the list. On a street tire you might get them to live a while tho. It's always a crap shoot with the stock rears and tranny

#1065671 - 03/25/20 01:39 AM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Cheford Offline
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Thanks a lot Ethan.

Great info....sometime ago I bought a Holley 20-119 and 20-112...I’m not gonna be dragging it every night that’s for sure a summer cruiser that I can still beat on 1 night for 5min from a street light basically lol....other than that I just wanted something with power to cruise around in and not be embarrassed when I floor it and a Prius still passes me


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#1065674 - 03/25/20 04:01 AM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Ethan Offline
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Ethan  Offline
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North Babylon, NY
Yea those should be good brackets. I have some cheap b.s bracket and it works but I'd like to have something stronger like that holley piece.

The stock rear and tranny might hold up for a while then, but it's still a roll of the dice, so just be mindful of it.

Should be a fun car when you get that new motor in. Hope it all goes together smooth for you man.

#1065701 - 03/26/20 02:28 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Ethan]  
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BadSS Offline
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Originally Posted by Ethan
The stock rear and tranny might hold up for a while then, but it's still a roll of the dice, so just be mindful of it.


Ethan brings up a valid concern for you. If I may suggest putting on a BIG transmission cooler (after it runs through the radiator) and a big inline/external filter. That'll keep the transmission temps down and let you change the external trans filter on a regular basis (did mine with every engine oil change) while adding a new fresh quart of fluid. That should prolong the life of the 200R4 and keep shifts as crisp as they can be - it'll also be a good gauge on how well the transmission is doing if you cut the filter open and see what is being caught by the filter.

Another point well made is the rear-end. I blew up a couple rear ends before putting in the 9" (which I consider one of the best investments I made - along with the TH400). I built an IROC with about 415 crank HP (331 rwhp on a DynoJet) for my wife back in 2002 and didn't want to buy a 9" for it unless I had too. I installed one of the cast aluminum rear covers and it held up for a number of drag strip outings on slicks and included a few passes on a 150 shot right out of the gate. So, I think the cast covers are well worth the money to help prevent or at least prolong the small pinion gear in these SS's with the 3.73 gears from exploding.

There are a number of people that sell them. The one I like is the LPW Ultimate (LPW 301-7.5G) - it has a provision for added additional bracing (LPW 341-A) for the axle housings. You have to weld on a couple tabs to the axle and the "kit" is an additional $125 or so - if you wouldn't add the additional bracing any of the other similar cast differential braces out there would do.

Here's a picture of the LPW cover with the bracing.
[Linked Image]

#1065766 - 03/30/20 01:39 AM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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ChasUno Offline
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Bradenton, FL
There's a sticky at the top of this subsection with a ton of info regarding removing the CCC computer system:

http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=245007#Post245007

FWIW, when I got my SS in 2016, it had the CCC system and all the original parts in place. It also ran like a total dog, sluggish and awful. The reason being wasn't because of the CCC system, it was down to years of neglect of the CCC system and it being messed with by people without a clue of how to set it up correctly. Plus all the vacuum lines were perished or split and a couple of engine sensors were dead.

I got a lot of excellent advice from seasoned members on this forum. They recommended I get the official GM Service manual and a used Brainmaster scanner. I got these and studied the system so I would understand it. I replaced almost every vacuum line, and also the TPS along with a couple of faulty ported vacuum switches. The Brainmaster helped me locate the parts of the system that were faulty or incorrectly set. I then set the system up using the GM manual and the Brainmaster scanner to factory specifications. Timing was set to standard, MCS was tweaked as it was running rich. TPS was adjusted properly, and the SES bulb was replaced so that I could actually see it telling me if the system had issues. Plugs, wires and filters were replaced. The before and after difference of how the engine ran was night and day. It was now revvy, responsive and with a nice surge of power. It idled nicely at tick-over and romped up to the redline when called to do so.

That was in 2017, and it's run very well, and without missing a beat since then. Which is how all CCC systems will run when set and maintained correctly. After all, if you study the system it's not far off the same as an older fuel injection set-up, just using the hybrid electronic Quadrajet instead of fuel injectors. Furthermore, the CCC system is capable of flowing way more than the standard 305, and can easily cope with bigger engines.

It really isn't that hard to understand the CCC system, and setting it up requires way less work (and $$$) than pulling it all out and then having to buy non CCC carburetors, distributors, TV adaptor plates, TC lock up kits and also getting the cruise control to work. For a race car, pulling everything out might make more sense. For a daily road car, to me it seems I would lose more than I would gain.


Last edited by ChasUno; 03/30/20 01:57 AM.

1986 Monte Carlo SS

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#1065789 - 03/31/20 06:52 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: ChasUno]  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
That depends on what you're shooting for. For a stock 305 or an emissions legal sbc I agree with you.

For what he saying he's doing, (383 HEI distributor and holly carb) I assume he's going for more performance based and that system just complicates the matter. I've read on here that a bigger cam can cause the system to not work right, and you have to get a different chip or something.

Just doesnt seem worth it to me if you're looking for performance.

But if he's looking for just more of a daily driver then you make a very good point

#1065790 - 03/31/20 07:12 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Cheford Offline
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Ethan, you’re correct. more of a cruiser/performance, so the whole CCC is coming out since the cam distributor and carb are all Non-CCC units


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#1065793 - 03/31/20 08:53 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
Yea if that's the case your best bet is to do away with all that stuff. It'll make your engine bay look neater and she'd some weight.

A lot of the guys on here like it for very mild set ups, and it definitely works for that. But for performance i wouldn't even want to try and deal with that system.

#1065802 - 04/01/20 04:21 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Yeah, doing a chip swap is way too complicated. Much better and cheaper to swap the distributor, carb, transmission cable brackets, wiring harness, lockup switch, cruise control, and a handful of other items. The cold start and part throttle of the universal Holley should be MUCH better than factory tuned up system like Chas was describing, and the 4 less pounds of stuff underhood will make up for the 2-3 hp you will lose on the Holley with basic carb tuning vs a tuned/rebuilt stock carb.

Sorry, I'm feeling a little snarky today, must be either the Coronavirus lockdown or the fact that it's April 1...

You need the carb brackets for the trans (as you've already got), you will need to look at 4th gear lockup control, you might need to look at cruise control, and plan on spending time and/or money getting your carb and timing advance set up if you want it to work better than the stock system. The sticky on removing the CCC outlines it pretty well.


Shawn

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1065803 - 04/01/20 06:05 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Hunter79764]  
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Ethan Offline
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Yea people like you is why I don't post here much. I literally said the system works well for the right applications.

He's looking for performance and alrdy has the non ccc parts. So if he's already got stuff that'll work why would I steer him another way. Assuming he's going to be running a cam comparable to mine it wouldn't work with the system.

For daily drivability I get what you're saying. But I drive my car around easily with my cam, carb and locked out distributor. It all depends on what you're willing to deal with.

I don't know why you had to be a dick about it, I wasn't crapping all over the ccc system, but for what I do with my car (seems like this guy is going for the same) it's not really applicable. Only thing I'm really losing out on is probably gas mileage.

#1065804 - 04/01/20 07:19 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Ethan]  
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Cheford Offline
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If only I could find a woman who gets me like you do Ethan 😘❤ lol


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#1065805 - 04/01/20 07:21 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Cheford Offline
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Ottawa, Ontario
I can deal with no cruise control....as for fourth hear lockup, to my knowledge all that's requires is a lockup TC and a the kit from pai less wiring


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#1065809 - 04/01/20 09:40 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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BadSS Offline
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Cheford, most of this below is more for others that might search for and find this thread.

Removing the computer threads can turn a little snippy because there are a lot of people on the board that knows it's not that bad a system and I'd guess that well over half the people that ask about removing it would probably be better off not replacing it.

For instance, I ran the CCC on the first mild 406 I put in my car. It ran 13.20s and everyone back then (late 1987?) insisted I needed a Holley on it. I succumb to peer pressure and spent over $500 on tricking out a 3310 vacuum secondary 750 Holley and mechanical/vacuum HEI. It took me about a month working on the thing to pick up 0.05 seconds – not even a tenth of a second difference and gas mileage went down. I've also tuned the CCC rather successfully on a mid-12 second car. So, that’s why many on the forum tend to recommend against swapping out the computer carb especially on stock and milder builds.

The biggest problem nowadays is finding someone that can trouble shoot issues with these computer carbs. There weren't many back in the day and even less now. That means for the most part, you would really need to learn how to work on them yourself. It's not that hard if you buy and read Rochester Carburetors (1987 Revised Edition) by Doug Roe. That and a service manual goes a long way to getting things right and adding a few horses to boot. However, that takes a little time to get decent at dialing in one.

That said, once I got my car running mid-12s with the 750 vacuum, I swapped over to a 850 annualar discharge double pumper and part throttle response was insane. It only picked up about 0.15 in the quarter under WOT, but it was well worth the cost. I put that carb on a buddy's SS running 13.40s with his 750 vacuum while I rebuilt the carb for him and I had a hard time getting it back. There is a TON of difference between the two carbs and even though I like the CCC system and it can run pretty good on faster cars, anything running low 13s would benefit tremendously moving to an annular discharge carb.

Good luck with the swap - it sounds like it may be the best thing for you anyway.

Couple of things, I rigged the cruise control to work with the Holley. Used the stock cruise control "arm" hardware and rubber gaskets (cut myself) and large washers to lock it in place within the top large opening on the Holley's throttle linkage. I did have to add a spacer under the aftermarket air cleaner so it would clear. Seems like I had to realign the diaphragm bracket, but that was a LONG time ago. I just know it's doable.

Also, check out this thread. I listed some links and parts to wire up the lock up for around $30. Other's added info to it, so it might prove helpful to you.
http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1065075&Searchpage=1&Main=111065&Words=%2Blockup&Search=true#Post1065075


Original owner of 1985 SS black hardtop w/gray interior. Frame-on restoration - 406 sleeper w/ heavily ported FIRST TPI. However the 1.875" headers, 3.5" duals, TH400, Ford 9", notched frame, and 10-point cage w/swing-out bars might tip you off it's not a lil' ole 305 TPI. Other mods: 2" drop, 18" wheels, f/r disk brakes, and custom stereo system.
#1065811 - 04/01/20 11:29 PM Re: Hey gusy [Re: Cheford]  
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Cheford Offline
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Hey thanks for the response. Only reason I'm doing away with the CCC system is partly due to a mistake I made. I worked at a GM dealership and consulted our performance line who said the carb in the catalog was CCC compatible.....I got home and left it in the box on the shelf and ordered a CCC cam from summit....summit ended up sending a cam that wasnt CCC so i decided to check the carb....called Holley and I ordered the wrong one....its Non CCC....so instwad of the hassle of returning stuff and waiting I just decided to see what else I needed to delete the CCC system.

The engine is a mild to medium build 383ci stroker


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