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#1063470 - 09/06/19 01:44 PM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Fred - share when you get the graphics. Our virtual team will provide confirmation, if not confusion....
I scanned SC&C again last night to see Marcus' list of what fits G-Bodies.
Link: https://scandc.com/product-category/parts-by-vehicle/1978-88-gm-g-body/brakes-1978-88-gm-g-body/
Seems some of the large ticket items are higher priced than what I recalled.
Will you upgrade the master cylinder too?
Gordon

#1063480 - 09/06/19 10:29 PM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Gordon, when I first researched the C5 front brake upgrade, I emailed Kore3. I asked them will I have to change my master cylinder for their C5 brake upgrade. They told me no, because the G-body has a "Fast Take-up" master cylinder. I do not know what "Fast Take-up" means.

Below is the SS center cap emblem that I thru together on AutoCad and sent to GBoyParts:

[Linked Image]


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063511 - 09/11/19 02:02 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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I want to keep the forum updated on what is happening. I emailed GBodyParts yesterday and asked what is happening with the "SS" center cap inlay. I have not heard from them yet. Maybe they were effected by the hurricane. If I do not get a response about the SS caps soon, I will go ahead and order the rims with the standard monte carlo center cap inlays. I want to be able to cruise with the new rims before winter sets in.

Oh, I did get the Eastwood fender roller a few days ago. Nice piece of equipment. I have not used it yet. I want to wait until I get the rims/tires installed.


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063512 - 09/11/19 06:48 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Hi Fred,

I have to assume the fender roller exerts an outward, and maybe simultaneously upward force on the fender lip, probably in reaction to an inner force it simultaneously exerts on - what - presumably the frame? Or maybe the axle flange?

My only advice would be to do this slowly and very gradually in repetitive passes. The danger is that if you exert too much force, you may buckle the fender in a way that would take major bodywork to correct.

About the logo: is there any way you could make it yourself and attach it permanently to the flat, central hub covering of the rim? (The backing material and the ink used would have to be waterproof and UV-proof as well.) Maybe there's an online source that would make this logo for you with a very strong PSA backing, like a sticker, similar in consistency to the body stripes GM used on the sides of the car?

On edit: Just found this possibility:

https://www.stickermule.com/products/circle-stickers

Best,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 09/11/19 06:52 AM.
#1063515 - 09/12/19 02:10 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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MAP, the fender roller bolts to the axle. Then you adjust the roller. I agree that this has to be done very slowly. The G-Body rear fender lips are double thickness, two pieces of sheet metal spot welded together. The eastwood instructions show doing it in a manner that will definitely warp the quarter panels. I have a plan to perform the operation in a safer manner. I could still simply cut the fender lips, but I want to avoid such a drastic operation.

Concerning the SS center cap inlay, I designed it on AutoCad. I could print it, then cover it with clear laminating plastic, then glue it to the center cap. But I'm sure GBodyParts would provide a better product than I could make.

Thanks for the link. A company that can make vinyl weatherproof round stickers to your design. If they can make the stickers the right size to fit into the center caps, that may be a plan.

Last edited by Fred SS; 09/12/19 02:18 AM. Reason: add more info

87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063522 - 09/12/19 09:06 PM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Hi Fred,

It's exactly that construction: two layers of sheetmetal separated by a space - that increases the danger of buckling per unit transverse deformation compared to, say, deforming just a single thickness of sheetmetal. The inner layer will buckle first, and immediately cause a gross deformation in the outer layer. So again, just proceed with caution. (I'm sure you'll get this right; writing this mostly for the benefit of others reading here who may be considering doing the same thing.)

In the one part per billion chance a designer of this type of tool is reading here: multiple rollers that float to cause an equal division of contact force, instead of a single roller, is a good way to minimize this problem. Even two rollers on a hinged coupling would be a big improvement.

On edit: if the tool looks something like this:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clp-mh8094

It may work well enough for all I know, but there are several features of this tool I don't like. Bending that quarter panel lip is going to create an enormous reaction moment on the axle flange. There's a real danger it could permanently bend.

Best,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 09/12/19 09:23 PM.
#1063523 - 09/13/19 01:16 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Yes, the link you have is one of the many copies of the Eastwood fender roller. Eastwood does say that the tool should not be used on double thickness fenders. But their instructions on using the tool is a bit aggressive in my opinion. They show the roller against the edge of the lip, forcing it upward and outward if the quarter panel begins to warp. If I do decide to use it, I plan to take a more gentle approach. Have the roller against the bottom of the lip and angle the roller up slightly to gradually bend it upward. Also, I cannot see using it to bend the lip all the way up, 90 degrees. That would surely warp the fender. A more conservative figure would be about 45 - 60 degrees. I hope to order the rims next week.


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063527 - 09/13/19 05:13 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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I believe Lance used the Eastwood roller with good success. Maybe he'll jump in here.

Fred do you have a local guy that does vinyl lettering for cars, like stock cars. Here I have a friend of my son who does just that for the locals. Oddly, his name is also Fred. I created the fonts, from his catalogs we picked the colors and then sized it. He printed me a dozen 427 with the hood fonts from the late 60s Vettes.. Always loved that car for that reason, always wanted a tri-power with that hood and badging,
The letters are two stage letters, perimeter is gun metal and inside laid over that is a smaller mate black letter, very subtle on a black hood you can hardly notice it.
Did those decals after the hood finally got a heavy coating of black lacquer, over 10 years in primer was that hood. Won that Goodmark at Monte Madness in like 05 on a 20 dollars chance. The previous year at Madness our fearless leader won the Goodmark, Paul,

Are the center caps on the new GTA wheel the same used on the old GTA. I've got a long history with the aftermarket caps, have bought more than enough for a few cars, have lost or damaged my share. The plastic tabs that hold the cap to the groove inside the hub opening are soft, removing them can easily damage one of the eight tabs, one gone and you may get the cap to stay on, two doubtful. At the drags I would need to remove them to run, so they were on and off many times.

The original GTA caps had a steel insert to hold the cap to the wheel. You couldn't find a set of the OEM caps, if you did find one it was beat up and way over priced. But just recently available are these repo ones. Pricey but they are nice, good copies. To insure the metal stays bonded to inside of the cap I cleaned everything and used RTV for what should be a permanent fix. Only paid 64 bucks for 4 caps with no centers installed. The CHEVROLET logo on the original SS wheel is installed in the center of those caps. Unfortunately the OD of that stick-on emblem is bigger than the recess in the cap. A trip to the lathe for a small trimming of the hole and the emblem is a drop in. Have made dozens of caps for these wheels over the years. I think the four caps with the steel insert will be around for a long time.

https://www.oerparts.com/product/*881189.html
Bob

#1063534 - 09/13/19 04:48 PM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Thanks for the info Bob. If I cannot get GBodyparts to do an SS inlay then I will look at the company MAP provided the link for: https://www.stickermule.com/products/circle-stickers.

Funny you should mention the plastic tabs breaking on the center caps. My current SLP ZR1 replicas has a broken tab on the front passenger side center cap. Unfortunately, the center cap is held on with only 4 tabs. So with only three, it would not stay on. So I super glued it in. SLP could not help me since they stopped selling those rims awhile ago.

I believe the GNX reproduction center caps are held on with a metal insert of some kind. I think I saw that info somewhere on Gbodyparts website.


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063538 - 09/14/19 08:26 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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For the benefit of the members, I setup the Eastwood fender roller and took some pics. I used a heat gun to soften the paint like the instructions said.

The roller did not work like I thought. The way it is designed, it pushes out on the fender lip more than push up. Pushing out on the fender lip could cause the quarter panel to bend or warp like MAP said.

I jacked the car up and placed jack stands under the frame ahead of the rear wheels. Then I let the rear axle drop until it was hanging by the shocks. The fender roller can be setup for a long length or short length. It was delivered setup for a long length.

The first photo shows it installed per the Eastwood instructions after I rolled it back and forth a few times.

The second pic shows how it attaches to the hub. The small hydraulic jack is there to push up on the axle. I thought that I could use the jack to push up on the axle thereby placing a upward load on the edge of the fender lip to bend it upward. It actually worked, but is tedious.

The third pic is a closer view of the bent fender lip. If you look closely, you can see a crease ahead of the roller where the roller stopped. That black spot ahead of the roller is where the paint flaked off. I knew that was going to happen. My Monte was repainted a little over 10 years ago.

The roller actually curved the fender lip up about 1/4 inch, maybe more, instead of a straight bend.

At this point, I'm not going further until I get the GNX rims and new tires.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Last edited by Fred SS; 09/14/19 08:37 AM.

87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063544 - 09/15/19 01:48 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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I used the roller on the passenger side rear fender. It actually turned out better than the driver's side. I had less paint flaking probably due to heating the lip to 130 - 150 degrees. At the top of the wheel well opening, the fender lip is bent upward like a U-shape. Takes allot of time and patience to continue this all the way around the wheel well arch. I stopped before I went to far. I tried to take a few pictures, but none of them showed the rolled lip very well.

Last edited by Fred SS; 09/15/19 05:52 AM.

87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063548 - 09/15/19 12:35 PM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Fred, sorry about the paint chip. Not in an obvious spot though and could get by with touch up I hope. Still its better than what I would have done rolling it with a baseball bat...
On the center caps, what would you think about the red outline letters with a slight lean? They have been used elsewhere by others. Traveling or i would research a bit.....
Keep us posted....
Gordon

#1063553 - 09/15/19 09:40 PM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Hi Fred,

If the biggest result of this exercise is to roll the inner lip upward, so you get a J-section instead of an L-section, then all you've done is bought a little more transverse clearance for the tire in what - the first 1/2" of upward travel of the tire into the wheel well? Maybe 3/4" if we count the 1/4" upward displacement of the entire lip? Btw, that last photo confirmed my recollection that the stock wheel well contour in a transverse sense tapers pronouncedly with increasing height.

All in all, it doesn't seem like this method accomplishes much. However, when you consider the low money and time investment, it seems quite reasonable.

Must say that if this were me, I'd gladly put up with the bodywork for either the bulged-quarter approach, or at least GM's project Monte style of an "eyebrow" flare. The former goes, of course, with a complete re-doing of the outer half of the wheel well housing so the resulting transverse section looks more like a |_| instead of a U. (Hope the idea comes through OK with simple ASCII characters.) That way you get a very big increase of transverse tire clearance even with deep wheel travel inside the wheel well.

In the realm of custom bodywork, this is actually a fun and rather easy project. You just have to be comfortable with sheet metal fabrication, contouring, and welding. But for folks who've only taken bodywork as far as dent repairs, no way.

I'd start with a car that needed a complete paint re-finish, needless to say.

Best,
MAP




Last edited by MAP; 09/15/19 09:56 PM.
#1063556 - 09/16/19 01:14 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Gordon, I actually wanted letters with a slight lean but I am not a graphics artist. So I threw together something and sent it to GBodyParts. What I really wanted was SS letters like what GM placed on the rear of the trunk lid. I do not think that is an actual font but was probably done by a graphics artist. I tried allot of different fonts in the software program, but could not find anything close to the OEM letters.

Map, I agree that I did not do much with rolling the fender lips and may not be needed. My measurements and calculations show that the sidewall of the rear tire will be approx 1/2 inch past the inside edge of the fender lip. The lip is 1 inch wide. My car is lowered about 1.5 inches all around. I think it helps that I am staying relatively conservative on tire width. Rear will be 255/40-18 on 18x9x4.25 bs rim.

Thanks Guys,
Fred


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063557 - 09/16/19 03:10 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Hi Fred,

I think you'll be OK. Stiffer springs would help, too, to keep the wheels from encroaching much on the interior space of the wheel well. It's never a good first path to avoid interference, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do (and it should be done with a proportionate change to the front spring stiffness.) Side note: I'm always thinking in three different levels when I post: first, to the OP; second, to the much larger audience who reads but doesn't post; third, to everyone about boldly going where no one (or at most few) have gone before(!)

About the SS emblem: if you Google "SS emblem" (surprise!) and click on "images," you'll find the font you're looking for. You basically want a 10-degree forward tilt to a very bold, squarish appearance. The only problem with about 90% of the forward-tilting images I see on Google is that they're inclined at about 30 degrees instead of 10, but some can be found, like this one: https://houseofgrafx.com/shop/index...p;zenid=96b594430eb993226736bd7928f7b09a Or maybe this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/SS-Vinyl-D...per-Sport-Camaro-Chevrolet-/123434039132

Best,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 09/16/19 03:33 AM.
#1063562 - 09/17/19 02:21 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Well, I ordered the rims, 18x8x4 BS for the front and 18x9x4.25 for the rear. When I receive them I will start a new thread.

Thanks MAP for the links. I'll wait to see what GBodyParts does for me.

Thanks everyone for your help. Stay Tuned.

Fred


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063563 - 09/17/19 02:42 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Did you pick a tire yet?
Bob

#1063565 - 09/17/19 03:56 PM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Bob, yes I have. Firestone Firehawk Indy 500. 245/40-18 front & 255/40-18 rear. I'm running 17 inch Firehawks on the Monte now and I really like them. Been running them for about 9 years. So I decided to stay with the same brand.


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063574 - 09/19/19 01:14 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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Can't say anything bad about Firestone. Have run several sets of Destination LE on my AWD Astro, love them, just would like to get more miles out of the set, but that may have something to do with driving style. Had to make the decision between the Firestone Firehawk and the BFG T/A Advantage V for my wife's 02 SS, bought the BFG because it was USA and liked the tread pattern better. They are a little noisier than I'd like, only fault to them.

On the 86 run BFG Comp II 255/50x16 on the 16" GTA wheel on all four corners, a very good street tire. Quiet, good in the wet, very good in the dry and wearing good, made in the USA. What you will find on BFG tires is they generally run a little more "advertised" tread width than other manufacture's tires in the same size. It may have something to do with who's doing the measuring but look at the specs for the 255/40x18 in a Firehawk and the BFG Comp II Summer. Over 1" more tread width on the Comp, same pricing for both tires. Comp USA, Firehawk is Thailand. More tread width is the rear is usually a good thing. I've autoxed the Comps, and drag raced them, about 8K miles and 4 years old. Will need to replace them maybe next years, they will be 5 years old. What I found on all the previous 16" Summer HP tires I've had on the car, BFG VR4, BFG KDW (set before Comps) the tread grip changes, harder, and they don't perform as well. Running a set of performance tires past their prime years isn't good.

My wife's 02 SS had two sets of AS hp touring Yokohama, the last set turned 5 years old, very low miles and were junk for cracking in the tread. Needed to make a long trip in that car and installed new tires because I didn't trust them for sustained highway driving at speed. And I hate changing flats. Did three for others in the past week, my kids, well not kids anymore, 40 and 46, but we know how that goes.
Bob

#1063583 - 09/20/19 10:36 PM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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I found a source for the SS emblems to go into the center caps in case GbodyParts cannot provide it:

http://www.motorcityvinyl.com/ss-circle-emblem/

The Motor City emblems come in various diameters, so I should be able to find one that will fit the GNX center caps.

I dropped the rims off at Firestone to get the tires installed today. Should have pictures uploaded Saturday afternoon. I will start a new tread then.


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
#1063595 - 09/22/19 12:29 AM Re: 18x8 Rim with 255/40-18; Downsides? [Re: Fred SS]  
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I posted a new thread with the GNX rims with photos and measurements.


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Wheels.
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