#1063328 - 08/27/19 03:09 AM
Re: Engine Swap
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86ttop
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Depending on the labor rate at the chosen shop, guessing at $100 p/h and a flat rate of 16 hours, adds up to $1600.00 if there are no other problems. Good luck!
Leo Paugh It's not an attitude, it's just the way I am. POW*MIA You are not forgotten If things improve with age, I must be approaching magnificent.
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#1063335 - 08/27/19 01:28 PM
Re: Engine Swap
[Re: 86ttop]
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Add another $2000-$2500 for the "mild 350 crate engine" to the labor charge.
86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, QP 9", Eaton Truetrac, 4 wheel disc, column shift, Dakota Digital, silver with maroon bench interior
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#1063379 - 08/30/19 01:15 AM
Re: Engine Swap
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86ttop
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There must be some car club members you can talk to, have you gone to any cruise spots??
Leo Paugh It's not an attitude, it's just the way I am. POW*MIA You are not forgotten If things improve with age, I must be approaching magnificent.
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#1063380 - 08/30/19 01:46 AM
Re: Engine Swap
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BadSS
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86 has the right idea. I'd also suggest going to the local race track - doesn't have to be quarter mile either. Check out the faster running cars and drop by the pit area and complement them on how well the car is running then ask who does their machining and engine work. Most don't mind telling you and I'll bet you'll find most all the faster cars are using the same place. Good luck with the swap!
Original owner of 1985 SS black hardtop w/gray interior. Frame-on restoration in progress. 406 sleeper w/ heavily ported FIRST TPI. 1.875" headers and dual 3.5" Borla exhaust. TH400, Ford 9", anti-roll bar, and notched frame. Dropped 2", 18" wheels, and F/R disk brakes. 10-point cage w/swing-out bars, custom gauges, and audiophile stereo system.
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#1063383 - 08/30/19 01:57 PM
Re: Engine Swap
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Make sure you keep the 305 to keep the "numbers matching" drivetrain intact. Could be important when you sell the car.
86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, QP 9", Eaton Truetrac, 4 wheel disc, column shift, Dakota Digital, silver with maroon bench interior
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#1067498 - 08/03/20 12:39 AM
Re: Engine Swap
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86ttop
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Your local Chevy dealer should have access to the goodwrench 350 engine. Check with local machine shops too!!
Leo Paugh It's not an attitude, it's just the way I am. POW*MIA You are not forgotten If things improve with age, I must be approaching magnificent.
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#1067504 - 08/03/20 01:13 PM
Re: Engine Swap
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Travis Jones
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I'm going to be the guy that says in 2020 putting money into a Gen I small block is a waste of money.
Get a 5.3 LS, you can find running motors for $200-$300, the other components will cost more, but you could complete the swap for $3000-$4000
86 SS 6.2l LS3, Ilmor intake, Summit Stage 4 Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Tremec T-56 Magnum 6 speed, Eaton Truetrac 8.8 LSD, UMI Cornermax Front Suspension, 3-link Rear suspension w/ UMI Control Arms, UMI Front & Rear Braces, Brembo Brakes
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#1067506 - 08/03/20 03:26 PM
Re: Engine Swap
[Re: Travis Jones]
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1 Slow SS
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I'm going to be the guy that says in 2020 putting money into a Gen I small block is a waste of money.
Get a 5.3 LS, you can find running motors for $200-$300, the other components will cost more, but you could complete the swap for $3000-$4000 X2, Everyday I regret not buying a LS7 for the Camaro back in 2018, I just cold fork up a complete swap at the time.
Last edited by 1 Slow SS; 08/03/20 03:29 PM.
Enjoy life, family first!
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#1067507 - 08/03/20 04:54 PM
Re: Engine Swap
[Re: Travis Jones]
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I'm going to be the guy that says in 2020 putting money into a Gen I small block is a waste of money.
Get a 5.3 LS, you can find running motors for $200-$300, the other components will cost more, but you could complete the swap for $3000-$4000 I am going to be that guy that says in 2020, putting money into a poorly and cheaply built, outdated 1980's grannymobile is a waste of money. Better to sell it off and use the money towards a used factory LS powered car which will be completely better in every regard. Also I am going to be that guy that says in 2020, LS engines are so passe, LT (Gen 5) engines are the new hotness. In reality, $200-300 running LS engines are rare, the price is more likely going to be triple that or more for even a 5.3. In my area you can't even get a non running 5.3 core to rebuild for less than $800. Gotta pay more than the smelters. 50k is just a drop in the bucket for a 305, pretty silly to swap a good motor with that amount of miles out. Just change the fluids and run some Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase to clean up any sticky parts. The biggest concern is if there is any Jerry rigging in the car. Especially in a emission hating Southern state, there is very likey going to be a lot of Jerry rigging to sort out. 059 Vortec heads will bump that 305 into the 300 hp range. A head swap is a lot easier than a complete engine swap, especially engines not designed for the car.
SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.
2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.
Never argue with an idiot. They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#1067508 - 08/03/20 05:31 PM
Re: Engine Swap
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Travis Jones
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I'm going to be the guy that says in 2020 putting money into a Gen I small block is a waste of money.
Get a 5.3 LS, you can find running motors for $200-$300, the other components will cost more, but you could complete the swap for $3000-$4000 I am going to be that guy that says in 2020, putting money into a poorly and cheaply built, outdated 1980's grannymobile is a waste of money. Better to sell it off and use the money towards a used factory LS powered car which will be completely better in every regard. Also I am going to be that guy that says in 2020, LS engines are so passe, LT (Gen 5) engines are the new hotness. In reality, $200-300 running LS engines are rare, the price is more likely going to be triple that or more for even a 5.3. In my area you can't even get a non running 5.3 core to rebuild for less than $800. Gotta pay more than the smelters. 50k is just a drop in the bucket for a 305, pretty silly to swap a good motor with that amount of miles out. Just change the fluids and run some Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase to clean up any sticky parts. The biggest concern is if there is any Jerry rigging in the car. Especially in a emission hating Southern state, there is very likey going to be a lot of Jerry rigging to sort out. 059 Vortec heads will bump that 305 into the 300 hp range. A head swap is a lot easier than a complete engine swap, especially engines not designed for the car. I can get 5.3's all day up here in Michigan for $219+tax, the local you pull is full of race engines. LT gen5 engines can't be easily swapped on a budget. If the 305 is running my advice is to drive it for the time being and save for an LS swap. The problem with Modern LS powered vehicle is their weight. 500-700lbs heavier, weight spoils everything.
86 SS 6.2l LS3, Ilmor intake, Summit Stage 4 Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Tremec T-56 Magnum 6 speed, Eaton Truetrac 8.8 LSD, UMI Cornermax Front Suspension, 3-link Rear suspension w/ UMI Control Arms, UMI Front & Rear Braces, Brembo Brakes
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#1067511 - 08/03/20 05:51 PM
Re: Engine Swap
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Prices do seem to vary by region, most of my local junkyards want $800 or more frim for a bare high mileage LS engine, less than that they rather smelt it. Supply and demand I suppose. One article I found on LS engine prices says that in some areas, used high mieage 5.3s go as high as $1,600 from yards.
SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.
2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.
Never argue with an idiot. They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#1067512 - 08/03/20 06:10 PM
Re: Engine Swap
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Travis Jones
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Prices do seem to vary by region, most of my local junkyards want $800 or more frim for a bare high mileage LS engine, less than that they rather smelt it. Supply and demand I suppose. One article I found on LS engine prices says that in some areas, used high mieage 5.3s go as high as $1,600 from yards. Those are crazy prices. Maybe i should start pulling engines and selling them in those areas. Summit has a $3499 450HP 5.3 crate motor. Considering GM wants $2399 for their base 350 that makes ~250hp. There's nothing else that even comes close in $ to power figure.
86 SS 6.2l LS3, Ilmor intake, Summit Stage 4 Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Tremec T-56 Magnum 6 speed, Eaton Truetrac 8.8 LSD, UMI Cornermax Front Suspension, 3-link Rear suspension w/ UMI Control Arms, UMI Front & Rear Braces, Brembo Brakes
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#1067513 - 08/03/20 06:50 PM
Re: Engine Swap
[Re: Travis Jones]
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Prices do seem to vary by region, most of my local junkyards want $800 or more frim for a bare high mileage LS engine, less than that they rather smelt it. Supply and demand I suppose. One article I found on LS engine prices says that in some areas, used high mieage 5.3s go as high as $1,600 from yards. Those are crazy prices. Maybe i should start pulling engines and selling them in those areas. Summit has a $3499 450HP 5.3 crate motor. Considering GM wants $2399 for their base 350 that makes ~250hp. There's nothing else that even comes close in $ to power figure. A crate 350 has the benefit of bolting right in keeping original factory parts and systems, an LS crate will require additional parts to adapt it in and some custom fab work, mostly exhaust which ups the final cost. The cheapest LS swap would be carb, but then you downgrade from the factory computer Qjet on the SBC to a aftermarket gas dumper. Keeping the LS EFI makes more sense but adds to the complexity and cost. They do sell some direct plug and play LS crates like the Erods, but those are not cheap. In the end, high HP isn't cheap. We are sidetracking the OP's thread. Considering the OP wants to hire out for a swap, he is kind of at the mercey of whatever the installer wants to do. Likely the installer will want to rip everying out and install whatever his jobber is pushing him to install. With a SBC, he will likely want to ripout the CCC and instally a Holley carb or aftermarket EFI of some kind as he will likely not have the training, knowledge, skills, tools, and other equipment for working on CCC cars, nor would he even want to have any of it.
Last edited by Buick Runner; 08/03/20 07:22 PM.
SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.
2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.
Never argue with an idiot. They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#1067517 - 08/03/20 09:49 PM
Re: Engine Swap
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Do you plan to keep it CCC Qjet or switch to non CCC carb or EFI? Most modern mechcanics are clueless about carbs and helpless with anything that predates OBD2.
Last edited by Buick Runner; 08/03/20 09:50 PM.
SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.
2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.
Never argue with an idiot. They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#1067521 - 08/04/20 01:11 AM
Re: Engine Swap
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86ttop
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I have a carb guy that is awesome, www.customrebuiltcarbs.com I use and recommend him, turnaround is usually about 7-10 days!!
Leo Paugh It's not an attitude, it's just the way I am. POW*MIA You are not forgotten If things improve with age, I must be approaching magnificent.
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#1067522 - 08/04/20 02:19 AM
Re: Engine Swap
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Whatever is the most cost effective/reliable. I’d prefer carb since that’s what’s already in place, but I’m not close minded about it. The stock fuel system is the CCC Qjet which is a computer controlled carburetor setup. Even a rebuilt CCC Qjet will need final fine tuning on the engine which requires special tools and equipment that are discontinued. Most important is a analog dwell meter which are no longer made but can still easily found used. You would also need idle jet adjusting tool and a TPS adjusting tool. A non computer carburetor setup requires less special tools, but requires more parts such as non CCC distributor swap and some sort of lockup control. This conversion will reduce power and gas mileage besides easily snowballing. This is what a professional mechcanic will likely push on you. It still will require final fine tuning but less specialized tools will be needed. EFI conversion isn't cheap or easy. You could go with either GM EFI systems such as TBI or TPI or go aftermarket EFI. This route has the most options and expense. This conversion can snowball even more than a non CCC carb conversion as it requires the most parts. There are no real easy choices.
Last edited by Buick Runner; 08/04/20 02:26 AM.
SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.
2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.
Never argue with an idiot. They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#1067525 - 08/04/20 01:27 PM
Re: Engine Swap
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Hunter79764
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If you want to stay carb, I think the general consensus would be to keep the CCC. Putting a carb on an LS is generally more money and more work than leaving it EFI. If you are going to go EFI, it will be more money and work to put it on an SBC than it would to swap to LS. I hear you on not wanting a used engine, but just keep in mind that the newer stuff can have 150K, get thrown into a swap with maybe a new water pump and spark plugs, maybe valvesprings, as "cheap insurance" and go many many miles without issue. Most folks are looking at 300k before even thinking about bearings or rings being worn.
Having a shop do the work opens a big can of worms. It really depends on who they are, what they are used to, and what they charge. Generally I'd say you can do the swap for $2000+ engine/transmission and that should give you a nice setup. Doing everything yourself can get the cost including engine to $2000, but that's tricky. $2000 plus a $1500 takeout engine/trans puts you at about the price of a crate motor SBC, then you have labor. Overall tough call but enjoy it either way.
Shawn
'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
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#1067530 - 08/05/20 04:09 AM
Re: Engine Swap
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Thanks for the info. I’d love to do the work myself, but I don’t have the time, tools, or space to do it.
I do find it fascinating that in 2020, it still costs thousands of dollars to get a small carborated pushrod motor installed in a 34 year old car.
I’ll keep my eyes out for anything, I figured by now their be a default 350 sbc swap everyone does on these cars. For now it’ll just sit and continue to collect dust That is part of the reason, few mechanics are able yet alone willing to work on old carbed engines in 30+ year old cars. They manly only want to work on current stuff as they often lack the tools and equipment to work on old stuff. There is nothing wrong with driving a 305 poweredcar around. Don't believe all the 305 bashing on the net, as the net likes to blindly bash everything. Most of its based on the low CR early LG4s, your SS has the high CR L69. Headers with a O2 sensor bung, Bitflipper's ZZ4 chip, and a heated O2 sensor will wake that 305 up, plus they can be transferred to a 350 later on. Even just building a dual snorkel aircleaner will add 10 hp. 305s can easily last to 300k with good care. The biggest issues with these cars are not the powertrains, its the weak floppy frames and poor front suspensions.
Last edited by Buick Runner; 08/05/20 05:44 AM.
SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.
2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.
Never argue with an idiot. They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#1067540 - 08/06/20 03:22 PM
Re: Engine Swap
[Re: NolesAlumni]
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Its always expensive to hire someone else to do the work for you. Even with professionals, you never know how professional their work will be. With only 50k, your 05 should have plenty of life left in it. Also being an SS, the 305 you have should be the high compression one which responds to mods much better than the low compression 305s which is the version most people b#### about.
Forgot to say, your car being an 86 means its the first year of having the one piece rear engine seal. Something to remember if you ever do replace the engine later on, the one and two piece seal blocks each use different flexplates. So you must match the flexplate to the style of block.
Last edited by Buick Runner; 08/06/20 03:31 PM.
SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.
2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.
Never argue with an idiot. They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#1067546 - 08/07/20 02:16 AM
Re: Engine Swap
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BadSS
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If the car doesn’t hold any sentimental value, then it probably would be best to do what you need to do to get it running and sell it, putting that money and the “swap” money towards a newer LS powered car. If the SS is in good shape at 50K miles, then you should be able to get decent money for it – add $6,000 (more if you include exhaust mods) to it and you’re in range for a decent LS powered Z/28, T/A, Camaro, GTO, or G8 GT.
That would kill a few birds with one stone – getting you a more modern platform that more people can work on as well as having a better handling car right out of the gate. Minor mods like a cam, headers, and tune can add upwards of 100HP on most LS engines and most shops are capable of doing those mods – suggest you get HP Tuners so you can tune it yourself (if you have a couple weeks to learn how).
If you’re set on keeping the SS, with only 50K miles on it (and if it was running fine before), I think I’d lean heavily towards doing a head swap (use stock intake) along with a mild cam (requiring little tuning to the stock carb). Add some 1.625” long tube headers and true 2.5” dual exhaust with Magnaflow or Borla Pro XS mufflers (if emission laws allow).
Here’s a cost breakdown for engine parts for pumping up the 305 to around the 300HP mark. It’s under $1600 (not including exhaust) – labor would probably be half of swapping an engine.
Trick Flow 175 Aluminum Heads - TFS-30310001 - $1,100 ARP High Performance Series Cylinder Head Bolt Kits 134-3601 - $83 Chevrolet Composition Head Gaskets 10105117 $26x2 - $52 Trick Flow Intake Gaskets TFS-30400921 - $15 Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter (207/213, .466/.484 -112) 10120700LK - $180 Cloyes Timing Chain Set C-3023X - $23 Summit 1.6:1 Long Slot Steel Rocker Arms SUM-G6801- $63 SCE Timing Cover Set Gaskets 11103 - $11 Fel-Pro Valve Cover Gaskets VS12869AC - $12
Cam above using the stock rocker arms and adding headers and exhaust would give you about 245 – 250 horses but once you have it torn down enough to do all that, adding heads probably wouldn’t add more than 1-1.5 hours to the labor.
Original owner of 1985 SS black hardtop w/gray interior. Frame-on restoration in progress. 406 sleeper w/ heavily ported FIRST TPI. 1.875" headers and dual 3.5" Borla exhaust. TH400, Ford 9", anti-roll bar, and notched frame. Dropped 2", 18" wheels, and F/R disk brakes. 10-point cage w/swing-out bars, custom gauges, and audiophile stereo system.
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#1067559 - 08/08/20 01:21 AM
Re: Engine Swap
[Re: BadSS]
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NolesAlumni
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If the car doesn’t hold any sentimental value, then it probably would be best to do what you need to do to get it running and sell it, putting that money and the “swap” money towards a newer LS powered car. If the SS is in good shape at 50K miles, then you should be able to get decent money for it – add $6,000 (more if you include exhaust mods) to it and you’re in range for a decent LS powered Z/28, T/A, Camaro, GTO, or G8 GT.
That would kill a few birds with one stone – getting you a more modern platform that more people can work on as well as having a better handling car right out of the gate. Minor mods like a cam, headers, and tune can add upwards of 100HP on most LS engines and most shops are capable of doing those mods – suggest you get HP Tuners so you can tune it yourself (if you have a couple weeks to learn how).
If you’re set on keeping the SS, with only 50K miles on it (and if it was running fine before), I think I’d lean heavily towards doing a head swap (use stock intake) along with a mild cam (requiring little tuning to the stock carb). Add some 1.625” long tube headers and true 2.5” dual exhaust with Magnaflow or Borla Pro XS mufflers (if emission laws allow).
Here’s a cost breakdown for engine parts for pumping up the 305 to around the 300HP mark. It’s under $1600 (not including exhaust) – labor would probably be half of swapping an engine.
Trick Flow 175 Aluminum Heads - TFS-30310001 - $1,100 ARP High Performance Series Cylinder Head Bolt Kits 134-3601 - $83 Chevrolet Composition Head Gaskets 10105117 $26x2 - $52 Trick Flow Intake Gaskets TFS-30400921 - $15 Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter (207/213, .466/.484 -112) 10120700LK - $180 Cloyes Timing Chain Set C-3023X - $23 Summit 1.6:1 Long Slot Steel Rocker Arms SUM-G6801- $63 SCE Timing Cover Set Gaskets 11103 - $11 Fel-Pro Valve Cover Gaskets VS12869AC - $12
Cam above using the stock rocker arms and adding headers and exhaust would give you about 245 – 250 horses but once you have it torn down enough to do all that, adding heads probably wouldn’t add more than 1-1.5 hours to the labor. I owned an LS1 SS camaro about 15 years ago or so. Did some minor bolt ons wound up putting down like 360/370 or something. It was getting up there in mileage so I dumped it and have been leasing ever since. I won’t be selling the MCSS, more than likely just let it sit until I come into money or someone locally wants to cut a nice check. Cost me next to nothing to insure for the year,
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#1067560 - 08/08/20 01:52 AM
Re: Engine Swap
[Re: NolesAlumni]
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86ttop
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Leo Paugh It's not an attitude, it's just the way I am. POW*MIA You are not forgotten If things improve with age, I must be approaching magnificent.
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#1067650 - 08/15/20 10:50 AM
Re: Engine Swap
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86SS86LS
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So I got my first quote back from a local shop: Blue print 350 - 373/400 $4000 15 hours labor $1800 plus fluids
So roughly $6000 and a 30 month/50k mile warranty.
It’s not grossly expensive, but not something I can afford unfortunately.
Crazy that in 2020 these archaic motors with no bells and whistles are still so expensive. Good thing I have other hobbies lmao. If I were in your shoes, I would buy a used 350 off of CL/FB. As an example, a year ago, I sold a low mile turn-key 350 HO crate motor for $1k. Then find someone local to swap it in their garage over the weekend......around here, it wouldn't be hard to get it done for $5-700. If you are resourceful your total cost would be in the $2000-2500 range.
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#1072011 - 09/13/21 02:55 AM
Re: Engine Swap
[Re: NolesAlumni]
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 928
Fred SS
10+ Year
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10+ Year
Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 928
Glassboro, NJ
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Thanks, I saw this one while searching. Of course there’s no price listed. Jegs has the long block version of this motor, part # 19355658, for $2100. You should be able to swap over your oem intake and CCC. Link is below: https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/sto...logId=10001&langId=-1&q=19355658
87 SS, Harwood hood, UMI trailing arms. Hooker 2050 Headers (Jet Hot Coated). Hooker Cat-Back Exhaust, Goodwrench 350, Ported TPI, Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow roller rockers, TCI 2400 stall converter, Denny's 3.5" Driveshaft, GBodyParts GNX Replica Wheels 18x8 & 18x9. F-Body Serpentine Belt Sys.
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