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#1063013 - 08/05/19 04:50 PM Let's Talk Shop  
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Z65_Paul Offline
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HI All,
Long story sort.. I early-retired a year ago at age 55 and quickly escaped Southern California for Central Texas (east of Austin). Went from a small postage stamp size real estate lot to a 26 acre ranch. One of the dreams was to have space for a good size shop of my own. Well, the dream has become reality. Nearing final completion of a 50'x50' metal shop with three roll-up doors (14'x12', 10'x12' and 10'x10'). Right now the interior is a blank slate ready for layout design. I was originally considering a four-post lift like the one Lance has. After a bit of research, I'm thinking a two-post would afford more accessibility and functionality. I'm also strongly considering putting down an epoxy floor. I'm considering the space in front of the left 14' roll-up to the back wall a stay-out zone to allow something large and long to be rolled in (nothing specific right now, just leaving that space available for the future).

So, Let's Talk Shop!

I'd like to hear your thoughts on two vs four post lifts and epoxy floors. Any other tips, hints and suggestions for what I should add into the interior design. Large ceiling fan?? Compressor suggestions? The building has a single phase 100A 220V service.

Here are some pics. The car port on the left will eventually be removed and a 16' tall lean-too will be added on that side. I had the building made with structure (the visible tabs) to add lean-too's on either or both sides.

Paul C

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#1063014 - 08/05/19 05:40 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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SSLance Offline
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Floors first... I'm VERY happy with my polished concrete floors in my new shop. Basically they grind the top of your concrete smooth, fill voids and expansion cracks with epoxy caulk, polish them once more and seal up with a clear epoxy. I clean mine up with a dust mop which I love and the best part is when I screw a place of the clear up enough all I have to do is reapply some clear to it. It also cost about 2/3rds of what an epoxy overcoat will cost.

Lifts... I'm pretty happy with my new 4 post drive on. If you get a big one with two chassis jacks you can do about 95% of what you can do with a 2 post frame lift and it is actually much easier to use. The other benefit is mobility. Trust me, you'll move things around in your fantastic new shop 3 or 4 times before you finally figure out which configuration works best for you.

Best of all worlds would be a two post and a 4 post but if I could only have one...pretty sure I'd choose the 4 post now after using one of each for a lot of work.

Air Conditioning!!! Put a big ol heat pump in and have both heat and air. I went with AC over a big air compressor in my new shop (electrically limited).


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1063015 - 08/05/19 06:44 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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Paul, I have used my car to justify a large number of questionably related tools and investments. You, Lance and others have pushed the envelope. Which wall is housing the microbrewery? Wonderful pictures.... So tempting.
Gordon

#1063016 - 08/05/19 06:51 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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PB86SS/87LS Offline
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Looks awesome PC. When is the garage/shed party going to be? beer

"Someday" for me, or something bigger than my current detached garage for the Monte's. Until then I'll drool at pics from some of your guys setups and make mental notes.


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#1063017 - 08/05/19 07:19 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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I did the same, cashed out my California home equity, retired early and fled for the land of lower taxes. less traffic, easier smog checks and friendlier politics..

This is the stuff I used on my garage floor, it still looks like new.
https://www.epoxy-coat.com/catalog/garage-floor-epoxy/

Last edited by upflying; 08/05/19 07:20 PM.

86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, QP 9", Eaton Truetrac, 4 wheel disc, column shift, Dakota Digital, silver with maroon bench interior

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#1063018 - 08/05/19 07:25 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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I know it wasn't one of your questions but LIGHTING. make sure you light that inside of the building with LED lights, you can never have enough! anyone i have ever met with a big building wants more lights


Always looking for New old stock parts
#1063019 - 08/05/19 10:41 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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Thanks for the inputs so far! Yes Lance, definitely floor first. I'll investigate the polished concrete option. I hadn't heard of that. And I hadn't considered a four-post with two jacks. Interesting. I'll take a second look. I wanted something heavy duty that would handle the full size dualy too. The same company as yours has an 11,000 lb class lift. Interesting about the mobility issue. So the 4-post is not anchored into the concrete?

Yes Mick, lighting is key. That's why I opted for full size sky lights on each side of the building. And definitely LED lighting. The building contract includes LED lights and multiple 110V outlets on each wall. They're installing the electrical this week. For now, it will have eight 4-foot LED bars, 4 per side. I can add more later as needed and probably will. Same with the 220V outlets.

Keep the comments coming! Thanks again!

PC


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#1063021 - 08/06/19 01:21 AM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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JMHO, you'll probably need 200 amp electrical service and I second the A/C/heat pump. do consider the 4 post lift as Lance pointed out and good luck with your workspace!!


Leo Paugh
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#1063024 - 08/06/19 01:56 AM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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AC is a great idea but how much of a waste of money if the walls/doors aren’t insulated?

Do something with the floors, bare concrete is too dusty and absorbent. Never heard of polishing and clearing but sounds like a good idea. Best to do it now before any equipment is in so that it’s a wide open work space...unfortunately this doesn’t give you much time to shop around and research the subject.

What are your plans for work benches, shelves, and tv/radio?


-Mike

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#1063025 - 08/06/19 02:38 AM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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SSLance Offline
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Good shot of my GMC 2500 up higher than I can reach over our polished concrete floors


Lance
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#1063026 - 08/06/19 02:41 AM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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SSLance Offline
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Barney up on one of the chassis Jack's

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Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1063027 - 08/06/19 02:47 AM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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SSLance Offline
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Originally Posted by Z65_Paul
So the 4-post is not anchored into the concrete?


PC


This is why I ended up with a 4 post, Ihave a post tension slab floor with cables running thru it so I couldn't drill the floor to bolt down a two post.


Mine came with a wheel kit that can be used to roll the lift around the shop or even outside if I wanted.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1063034 - 08/06/19 01:29 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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Awesome setup! You're a few steps ahead of me... I'm hoping to get a 30x40 installed this year or early next year, and I'm debating the 2 vs 4 post as well.
I like the polished concrete look better than the typical epoxy, but I imagine both perform similarly so the look is probably as good of a reason to chose as any.

For the AC, consider a ductless Mini-Split as a step up from a window unit without going into a full bore residential type system. You can generally install it yourself and maybe have a technician come out and evacuate the lines and verify charge in an hour, then you have a good, efficient, heat pump unit with a remote and possibly a couple of zones. It would be difficult to condition the entire space in a hot texas summer, so you will want to keep air moving where you intend to be.
Lighting wont be an issue this summer, but once you get into the winter months, the skylights won't do as much good. 4 LED's is a start, but depending on how big they are, you will probably want to add more. The placement, distribution, and quality of the light is more important than the pure quantity. I like Feit lighting for home use, they have good quality (CRI is generally 90+ out of 100 where most other LED's are in the 75-85 range) and a good price. ACE hardware, Amazon, and Costco are the best sources I've found. And more fixtures will look better than less, even if the total output is the same. Cost will be a little higher, but you won't get shadows nearly as easy.
Mounting closer to the walls will help get the light reflected in the areas that will naturally be darker, and will help bounce light down and under the car when working under a lift. Lighter colored concrete will help with that as well.

I used to work in HVAC, and now I do a lot of lighting engineering as part of my current job...


Sometimes you just need a bigger hammer...

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1063039 - 08/06/19 03:11 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Actually, now that I look at the picture closer, Barney is up on TWO chassis jacks here. This was taken when I was testing the suspension travel during the new sway bar install. One jack is holding the frame up at the #2 body mount spot and the 2nd jack is under the front control arms compressing the suspension to full bump (springs removed). Try that with your two post lift... laugh

Originally Posted by SSLance
Barney up on one of the chassis Jack's

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Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1063041 - 08/06/19 05:36 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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I considered the 2 and 4 post lift, chose the 4 post lift and have been happy with it. It has allowed me to do everything I've needed to, (exhaust, transmissions, regular maintenance). Mine has a rolling jack tray so I can do brakes, wheel cleaning etc, at a comfortable height. It is not attached to the floor but I don't expect to every move it.


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#1063055 - 08/08/19 04:17 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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Thanks for the inputs and pictures. Interesting about the dual rail jacks. I'll look into that option. Doesn't look like my dually would fit on your lift Lance. It's a bit longer being a full crew cab with long box.

Looked into the polished and epoxy floors a bit more. Looks like professional installation starts at about $5 per sqft. That's a bit more than my budget for the floor right now. I've seen the supplies for DIY epoxy for about $3500 for 2500 sqft. Does anyone have experience with DIY epoxy floor installation?

PC


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#1063061 - 08/08/19 08:34 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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SSLance Offline
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I paid $2.80 \ ft to have my 2200 sq ft of garage floors ground, polished and cleared with polyaspartic.

Most straight epoxy quotes I got were in the $3.50-4.50 \ ft range.

I am not aware of anyone that actually uses their shop that is happy with their DIY epoxy. Prep is crucial and it is pretty hard to get that part right without the right tools. Your's being brand new helps though. Did the contractor put any sealer down on it? It so, it'll have to be ground or burned off with acid no matter what you do.

Look for a commercial floor company, the retail home garage guys are usually way more expensive than the commercial guys.


Lance
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#1063062 - 08/08/19 10:27 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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Thanks Lance. I'll keep looking for a commercial floor company. The contractor did not put any sealer down on the concrete. It was 'polished' during the pour process with a circular machine so it's not rough. However, during installation of the building, the sky lift they were using spewed hydraulic fluid from a failed seal... so there are stripes and puddles of that that will need to be removed I assume.

Thanks again.

PC


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#1063064 - 08/08/19 11:27 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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SSLance Offline
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I saw those stains...and that sucks. Yes, those will have to be completely gone if you want epoxy or any other coating to stick to that part of the floor.

Hope you can find a good commercial concrete polisher, they should be around. Go into just about any big box commercial store and look at their floors and you'll see they are just ground and polished concrete most of the time. Good luck.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1063069 - 08/09/19 05:53 AM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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When I poured the 32x35 shop floor 25 years ago all those different epoxy finishes weren't readily available. Don't even think the Home Depot and Lowes were around here yet with their polished flors. But now well aware of the floor finish used there, and Costco, and the rest of the big box stores.

The slab in the shop has 1400' of pex in 6 zones on 6x6 mesh, perimeter insulated, 6 mil vapor barrier, 6 to 8" 4000 mix, air and electric in conduit, a lot of thinking, labor and money went into that slab. The thought is the same as when you build an engine, it's about the shortblock durability, a shop floor is the working surface, do it right the first time.

The only labor I paid for was to have the finisher on site after I poured the 22 yards, I was younger then. Using a 3' power paddle a compacted, smooth surface is what I wanted and got. After about a week a concrete sealer was applied. This is the product I used.
https://laticrete.com/en/concrete-c...emical-hardeners-densifiers/lm-seal-hard

https://cdn.laticrete.com/~/media/marketing_information/concrete-construction-chemicals/ds2654_0416-lm-seal-hard-brochure.ashx?la=en&vs=1&d=20160901T143140Z

I think that was 1995, 23 years now with that sealer on the floor. Absolutely zero dusting, a floor squeeze take car of water quickly after a washing, easy to sweep up a mess, surface is harder about 1/8" deep, grease cleanup is good, tires rubber doesn't leave marks but off course tire care products will effect any concrete surface. Downsides are slippery when wet, especially with wet bare feet. Ran into the shop once straight from the pool, young enough then the fall didn't hurt much.

As with most non epoxy finishes acids are a problem. Washing an old car acid corroded battery tray in the same area you have worked on a 100 cars before was not smart. In the shop we use a fair amount of muriatic acid, have always been very cautious of dropping any on the floor, but there are a few dots here and there. Acids and concrete are not compatible.

If oil is left laying on the floor for prolonged periods of time, the floor will spot, cleaned up quickly not a problem. The riding mower that sits in the same spot all winter, the old 2 cycle tools that sit on the floor leak and stain. After several decades there are several spots now.
A commercial mop and bucket along with a strong citrus cleaner kept the floor real pretty for many years. These days just the bay i work in all the time will get wiped with a rag, lacquer or brakeclean to get the oils then a spray wash and squeeze. You can lay on the floor after it dries in a white tee-shirt and not get dirty.

Most any concrete surface is prone to chipping. On one bench corner is the big old vice, many heavy pieces of steel have hit the floor under that vice, stuff happens, only have two hands. To many nicks to count anymore. The Seal Hard has held up very well to all the abuse the floor gets there.

About lighting more is better, especially now that you're retired. Thirteen double 8 footer with reflectors, half are H.O. because the shop is below 50 degrees often. every bench has ample light. The vise area has a 8' on both front and back, another old thing. Fluorescent is obsolete I know, but I haven't convinced myself LED is the way to go. Yes lumens are up, power consumption way down, but it's all that blue light they emit that scares me. Was in the ACE hardware after they change it out to an outrageous number of LEDs, it was intense how bright it was. Did a little reading about the light they emit, the verdict is not in yet.

Think about have a good wash area with a parts washer and sink. Many moons ago an 8' restaurant stainless double bowel sink was picked out of the scrap yard, they are hard to find today as all restaurant sink need to be a triple bowl now. To the left of the sink is the parts washer, a stainless tray connects it to the sink. Have processed thousands of parts down that wash line. One bowl is very big, tues did brakes on my brothers truck, To keep him busy and out of my way his 30" front tires went in the sink for him to clean 2 years of brake dust off. Having an efficient parts washing area makes working on cars much easier. That money spent on the wash line was one of the best bangs for the buck.

Hot and cold running water a must have especially when it's cold outside. The water system in the shop is gravity drain. The shop is not heated continuously during the cold winter months so temps can see WELL below 32. Heat tape protects the supply to the shutoff valve and is plugged in at the first 35 degree day. When the lights go off the water is shut off and the drain opened to the outside, easy. Something to consider if interior get cold, draining water to prevent freezing pipes.
If I need hot water a 3 gallon, plug-in, 220 volt "bucket" of water with a spout is called into service. Simple, no heater to drain.

No car lift here, always thought I needed one. The ceiling in the bay is plenty high enough, just couldn't justify the cost, to many other things needed to be done like kids in college, cruises, new cars, house projects. So I got by with 8 different sets of jackstands and a quality Lincoln floor jack. Yes, working under a car on a creeper is nothing like standing under a lift to put an exhaust system on. But when I was a kid it was laying in the stone driveway, or the grass in the side yard. Working on that smooth, clean concrete floor, with lots of light, heat cranking, 6 work benches loaded with the right tools, a sink to wash your face in, and I can't complain. Did I mention cable, phone and a very good sound system. The frig died a few years ago, a generator took it's place.

Paul hope there was a few ideas here to make that retirement shop very comfortable. As we age more comfortable and easier is better.It's hard enough to get motivated to get things done. When you can lean back in an easy chair and watch a little TV to take a break from that PITA car project and know tomorrow is another day, priceless. Did I mention it's important to have a couple good easy chairs too?
Bob

#1063125 - 08/12/19 02:25 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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Bob, on the LED lights, look for 3500-4000K and 90+ CRI and I think you will be happy. The CRI rating is hard to find, as it is not a required number to have on the package the way that lumens, color temperature, and watts are, but it is easily the most important factor in getting rid of the "I can't put my finger on it but I just don't like it" aspect of newer lighting. Stick with Feit if you don't want to find the CRI rating, but avoid the cheap chinese stuff either way for the terrible light quality, inconsistent product quality, and not living up to the advertised specs if you want to be selective about it.
The 4000K color temp will be nice and white but not blue. Some folks like the blue color, personally I hate it. It does help older eyes regain some visual sharpness, but higher levels of the 3500K or 4000K light will too. Some folks with seasonal depression can get a huge boost out of the 6500K lights though, so factor that in if you or anyone tends to find themselves getting depressed in the winter. My wife has a bit of that, so all of the common areas in the house get Daylight white, but my areas don't go much over 3000-3500K...

I'll shut up about lights, but anyone feel free to PM me if you have questions about a particular application etc. I've studied this stuff way too much, but I'm happy to help someone out when possible.


Sometimes you just need a bigger hammer...

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1063145 - 08/13/19 01:46 AM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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Great inputs everyone. Thanks so much! After a bit of research, I found a vendor in Austin that will do an epoxy flake floor for $3.50/sqft. The polished concrete option would have been $5.00/sqft. In addition to the extra cost for polished, after the saw the floor and the hydraulic fluid streaks, he said they would probably show back up after the sealer was put down. I went into this looking for an epoxy floor so that was a good cost effective option. I have the job scheduled to start a week from Wednesday, the 21st. I'll post pics when it's done.

Thanks for the input on the lights. Definitely LED all the say. I know what they installed is bare minimum so I'll be adding to it as funds allow. The lift may be down the road too based on funds. We have a good chunk of change left over from the Cali house sale, but that's ear marked for expansion of the two story home that we'll eventually move into (mother in law will move into this single story house).

Once the floor is done, I can start offloading the garage, and move the SS into the shop. I'll then turn attention to designing and framing in an office space inside the shop with storage mezzanine above. Oh, and I need to grade the front of the shop and put down some road base & gravel to the drive way.

Thanks again for the inputs. I'm very excited to see the inside develop into a top quality man-cave.

PaulC


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#1063208 - 08/19/19 01:59 AM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
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Welcome to Texas Paul.
im jealous, very nice shop!

for an air compressor, bigger is better, unless its too big, haha. if you can something that can supply more or close to it the CFM than your most used air tool uses is a good start. find a good one with at least a 40 gallon tank minimum, 60 plus would be better, with a compressor that has oil. if the electric motor has oil ports that would be good, just remember to change/fill the oil regularly. i am not a fan of the so called oil-less compressors.

on the lifts, i've worked in a few auto shops over the years & personally i have always liked the in-ground twin post air/hydraulic lifts. they have great control if you only want to go up or down just a touch. i have also used single post in-ground. both have advantages over the other, but they are pricey to install & repair. once installed, that is where they are, unless you do concert work.
in-ground, very easy access to the interior & all around the vehicle. more so with the single post. transmission work, not so easy with a single post.

above ground, i've also used 2 & 4 post drive on lifts & 2 post with lift arms, each also has advantages over the other.
2 post, can be hard to get in/out of the vehicle, also hard to do interior work on the lift. wrap some good foam around the posts to protect the
doors. transmission work also not great on most 2 post drive on. 2 post with lift arms with the cables/chains/hydraulics overhead trans work is about as good as it gets. 4 post, trans work is good. other than the ramp, doing interior work is good with a 4 post. engine work, added height with with 2 or 4 post drive on. 4 post guess what is right there, yep, a post on both sides. 2 post with lift arms engine work is ok.
did i muddy the water for you a bit?
2 post with lift arms or drive on, must be well anchored. i admit it would make me nervous working under a car on a 4 post that isn't anchored down, but i was also nervous working under cars on freshly installed 2 posts that were anchored. what ever you go with, make sure it has a good safety system!
a good lift also adds another parking spot in the shop.

Last edited by DENN_SHAH; 08/19/19 02:01 AM.
#1063215 - 08/19/19 01:21 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: DENN_SHAH]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 79
wxdude64 Offline
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wxdude64  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 79
Covington, VA
Originally Posted by DENN_SHAH
Welcome to Texas Paul.
im jealous, very nice shop!

for an air compressor, bigger is better, unless its too big, haha. if you can something that can supply more or close to it the CFM than your most used air tool uses is a good start. find a good one with at least a 40 gallon tank minimum, 60 plus would be better, with a compressor that has oil. if the electric motor has oil ports that would be good, just remember to change/fill the oil regularly. i am not a fan of the so called oil-less compressors.

on the lifts, i've worked in a few auto shops over the years & personally i have always liked the in-ground twin post air/hydraulic lifts. they have great control if you only want to go up or down just a touch. i have also used single post in-ground. both have advantages over the other, but they are pricey to install & repair. once installed, that is where they are, unless you do concert work.
in-ground, very easy access to the interior & all around the vehicle. more so with the single post. transmission work, not so easy with a single post.

above ground, i've also used 2 & 4 post drive on lifts & 2 post with lift arms, each also has advantages over the other.
2 post, can be hard to get in/out of the vehicle, also hard to do interior work on the lift. wrap some good foam around the posts to protect the
doors. transmission work also not great on most 2 post drive on. 2 post with lift arms with the cables/chains/hydraulics overhead trans work is about as good as it gets. 4 post, trans work is good. other than the ramp, doing interior work is good with a 4 post. engine work, added height with with 2 or 4 post drive on. 4 post guess what is right there, yep, a post on both sides. 2 post with lift arms engine work is ok.
did i muddy the water for you a bit?
2 post with lift arms or drive on, must be well anchored. i admit it would make me nervous working under a car on a 4 post that isn't anchored down, but i was also nervous working under cars on freshly installed 2 posts that were anchored. what ever you go with, make sure it has a good safety system!
a good lift also adds another parking spot in the shop.



I can't say anything about current models, but when son was home we built a snow park each winter for him and his buddies to practice on. I went thru COUNTLESS air compressors, and the one that sold me was an oil-less porter cable. I think model was 4515?? About 15 gal and it ran and ran and ran forever without a hitch. MANY weekends they (we ran 2 on 2 snowguns and one fangun) ran ALL weekend without shutting off, 50-70 hours pushing a constant 30-40 psi thru the hoses. One finally cracked at a seam after 5 years use/abuse, the other I still use when needed and it is probably 15 years old with likely a couple thousand hours on it. Just used it two weeks ago.

Last edited by wxdude64; 08/19/19 01:24 PM.

87 Black/Tan Aerocoupe
#1063218 - 08/19/19 08:38 PM Re: Let's Talk Shop [Re: Z65_Paul]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 967
Hunter79764 Offline
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Hunter79764  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 967
Grand Prairie, Tx
Something to know/note about compressors is that the size of the compressor gets a lot of attention, but for most of us, the size of the tank is much more important. If you could make an ideal compressed air system as far as efficiency, it would have a compressor that runs constantly and a tank that was big enough to handle all of the fluctuations in between. For me, that would be a 2 hp compressor max, and about a 500 gallon tank. Not very effective, but very efficient. Next best is a compressor and tank that is big enough for 90% of the use, and an additional compressor that kicks in occasionally as a "booster" for long spraying sessions with a paint gun or air grinder. Worst case is a big compressor that kicks on for 45 seconds, then off for 3 minutes, then on again for 45 seconds, repeat. Long run times are much more efficient, and even if you don't have a muffler for the compressor, at least some of us would rather have a steady noise for longer than an intermittent compressor cycling on and off.
Getting steady use and knowing what is really needed is really hard for guys like us to do, but if you find yourself trying to decide between a bigger pump and a bigger tank, go for the tank. and if you have a couple of compressors already, consider tying them together on some kind of manifold, and make sure that the cycle pressure for your secondary compressor is a few psi lower than the first.

Also, all compressors have oil, and some studies show that oil-less compressors can have MORE oil in the airstream than conventional compressors. And no compressor will run forever with no maintenance. Don't pay too much attention to marketing terms, just make sure the model you are looking at has good track history.
It's kind of like bearings. All bearings are lubricated for their entire lifespan, its just a matter of how long the lifespan is...


Sometimes you just need a bigger hammer...

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
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