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#1061890 - 05/13/19 04:28 AM Re: Radiator Support To Firewall Brace [Re: Frazier85]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Pottstown, Pa
Just a quick note here.
Back in the day when those braces were installed in an A/G cars some cars came through with alum hoods and trucks to lighten the car. Possible the braces were done to make up for the loss of the alum hood's crush. More than likely it was more to control the flex of the noodle with the alum hood.

The wall thickness of those long braces and the bend in the middle did VERY little for collision, but helps a VERY little to tighten up the wiggle.
Those braces are a waste of space under the hood IMO.
Bob

#1061895 - 05/13/19 01:30 PM Re: Radiator Support To Firewall Brace [Re: Frazier85]  
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Grand Prairie, Tx
As far as dropping options on models as they progress through the life cycle... I own a 2001 Suburban LT (top trim at the time, all options except DVD player) and a 2004 Yukon XL Denali (A trim level above anything Chevy offered, equivalent to an Escalade, again no onboard DVD player). While the Denali has some nice features (rear seat audio, so kids can listen to one thing and I listen to another, heater rear seats, and a better sounding factory stereo with steering wheel controls), it is missing many small items that you likely wouldn't notice unless you had the two side-by-side.
The 2001 has a power lock switch in the rear hatch area, as well as a 12v plug where the Yukon does not not have the lock switch, but might have the 12v plug. 2001 has 2pc front visors that can block the sun from the side and the front simultaneously, 2004 does not (or did not, until I went to a wrecking yard and got a set for $10). The 2001 has lock cylinders in both front doors and the rear hatch, where the 2004 has only one in the driver door. Those are the ones that come to mind, but there are a few more I've noticed. I'm curious to see if the wiring for the lock switch is there under the trim, and all I have to do is add the switch.


Sometimes you just need a bigger hammer...

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1061899 - 05/13/19 08:02 PM Re: Radiator Support To Firewall Brace [Re: Frazier85]  
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MAP Online content
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MAP  Online Content
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Yuma, AZ
Hi Bob, Hunter,

All reasonable. Again, I have no direct measurements or proof of what I'm saying - I can only surmise - but the fact that the factory used them haphazardly (and often with all-steel hood and trunk lids), tells me that the factory was probably no less confused than we are. Again, this strongly suggests that their benefit was marginal at best.

As for NVH (sort-of), I know there are far, far more effective ways to increase front-end rigidity without adding significant weight. Solid bushings at #1 and #2, and a triangulation brace from the base of the A-pillar down to the frame just forward of the UCAs, would work wonders, I believe. But then the upper half of the door perimeter would need stiffening too, as the crash videos vividly attest.

Thanks,
MAP

#1061900 - 05/13/19 08:28 PM Re: Radiator Support To Firewall Brace [Re: Frazier85]  
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Richie Cat Online content
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Lake Ronkonkoma, N.Y.
After reading this from people the question is, "Do you feel lucky or don't you punk ?"


83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#1061905 - 05/13/19 09:37 PM Re: Radiator Support To Firewall Brace [Re: Frazier85]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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mmc427ss  Offline
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MAP.
Back in the day we beat up this subject pretty good.
When I did body bushing i bought all available poly and measure the durometer of them and settle for the black Prothane which were a few points harder than the others. Later I made Delrin bushings and replaced the #1 and #2 bushings with the Delrin. One of the extra full sets I had of Energy Susp now reside in Lance's car.

The Delrin 1-2 definitely tighten up the front end. Along with the triangulated under hood brace, rad support to fender heavy gauge braces, and several other braces the car is pretty rigid now. You can put a floor jack under the #2 and lift that side of the car up, and, when placed under the #4 bushing lift the rear and front up with little deflection of the car. The car flexes very little and the Delrin 1-2 is a big part of that. At some point in time another stick of Delrin will be bought and #3, 4, 6, 7 bushings will be Delrin. Curiosity is the biggest reason to do the others. Of course NVH is not good now, more Delrin will increase that noticeably.

I had a few people for rides and one of their remarks is how "tight" the car is. Of course that is both good and bad, it moved the boat into being a pretty darn good handling car, but you can get tired of NVH when you are just out for a day cruising on the back roads, ask my wife.
Oh, the trade offs we make. Hmm, wife doesn't like to ride in the car?

As far as crash worthiness goes of course that is a consideration, but driving now for over 50 year and doing a pretty good job of avoiding that scenario, and know if even the corner of the frame got bent the car would be junk. And my daily driver is a 95 AWD Astro, on a list of 1 to 100 it's probably a lowly 10 on the list for crash worthiness. But because it has 500 lbs of insulation the NVH is very tolerable. It's just the choices we make.

Bob

#1061911 - 05/14/19 02:57 AM Re: Radiator Support To Firewall Brace [Re: Frazier85]  
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MAP Online content
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MAP  Online Content
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Yuma, AZ
Hi Bob,

As I admitted to Lance when I visited his house and he took me on that unforgettable ride in that amazing car of his about 1.5 weeks ago, it's been almost ten long, dry years since I've owned an A/G body. This topic re-motivates me to get back into the hobby but the price of admission nowadays is so high...

So unfortunately, for now, this whole topic is only a thought experiment for me. Someone - somewhere - please carry the torch forward. DSM's posts in the unibody thread are so enticing, where he said those Ford engineers took a custom Mustang, made everything completely rigid save for the tires, yet he said it had "excellent NVH." So I wonder, is there some key element of added rigidity in the A/G platform beyond anything yet tried that I'm aware of, where we turn the corner from worse NVH to better? Is that A-pillar base-to-frame brace that key?

Richie, I'm thankful the stakes for us aren't nearly as high as for Clint's almost-victim.

Best,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 05/14/19 03:04 AM.
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