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#1054467 - 11/17/17 05:03 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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As I said - if that Hypertech chip was in a 1987/88 ECM (part number 1228079) then it can be modified to delete the EGR trouble code, and in fact, all the other changes I made could in theory be incorporated. I would need the chip to read it, change the trouble code table, and burn a new EPROM. Included in the price (I'd do it for $85 for the curiosity factor) would be a comparison of the Hypertech chip to the original L69 or ZZ4 chip (which I would make public) so that the mystery behind the Hypertech chip would be understood.

As oemtech said though, other than the sheer curiosity of demystifying the Hypertech chip, you'd actually probably be better of with the ZZ4/L69 hybrid that many others are using.

oemtech - that is the EPROM that I use to make the hybrid ZZ4/L69 chip. It's a crap shoot as to whether or not it can be erased and re-burned - many of these EPROMs are suffering from age. Eg. the code stamped on the front of your spare chip suggests that it was made in 1983 (most of them were early 80's as the 2532JL was quickly superseded by the more popular 2732). Anyway, I'll PM you my (new) address - you can send it at your convenience.

Dylan.


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#1054469 - 11/17/17 07:02 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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PB86SS/87LS Online beer
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I'm hoping you do get your hands on a Hypertech chip to read it and compare to the L69/ZZ4, I'm sure others are curious too.

I do have a Hypertech chip that is for the 86' and older ECM, if that would be of any help in this. Would double check the number but when I got it (was in a parts car) the number when searching came back as for the older ECM.

Last edited by PB86SS/87LS; 11/17/17 07:03 PM.

-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42 -313/344@RW - 13.35 @103
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42 -248/340@RW - 14.55 @ 96
-81'Grand LeMans Safari Wagon 3.8 2bbl/200C/2.73
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
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#1054471 - 11/17/17 07:45 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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Heh, my 88 came with a Jet or Hypertech chip intended for an 86, causing a 'no PROM' error to flash. I'll happily mail it to bitflipper if desired.

#1054474 - 11/17/17 08:31 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: ratbuddy]  
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy
Heh, my 88 came with a Jet or Hypertech chip intended for an 86, causing a 'no PROM' error to flash. I'll happily mail it to bitflipper if desired.


The one I have was the same way, IIRC, came in a parts car that didn't run (for some time) with the older chip in a 87/88 ECM. Found that interesting.


-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42 -313/344@RW - 13.35 @103
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42 -248/340@RW - 14.55 @ 96
-81'Grand LeMans Safari Wagon 3.8 2bbl/200C/2.73
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
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#1054480 - 11/18/17 03:36 AM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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I don't have the source code for any ECM other than the 1987/88 ECM, so chips for '86 and older would be undecipherable. Given that there is no sign of anyone having access to the '86 and earlier source code, I'm really skeptical that Hypertech did anything material to their "Performance chip" beyond copying the stock chip and aiming for the placebo effect. I've never heard of a Hypertech chip for the 1987 ECM but if someone has one I'd be happy to read it for comparison and transparency.


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#1054486 - 11/18/17 07:04 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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Marino Offline
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Hi Yes just delete EGR valve exactly like what you did, here is SN 13 1961 Hypertech chip!

#1054808 - 12/13/17 05:57 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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406monte Offline
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Just out of curiosity what all do you gain from swapping to a ZZ4 prom?


84 Monte Carlo SC 406 SBC
78 Monte Carlo 305 sbc SOLD
78 Monte Carlo Landua 350 sbc SOLD
81 Malibu Classic 350 sbc SOLD
84 Monte Carlo LS 350 sbc SOLD
84 Buick Regal 229 v6 SOLD

#1054809 - 12/13/17 06:46 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Not a lot gained by switching to EGR delete PROM. For most who have changed intakes to a non EGR intake and have kept the CCC system it will turn off the CE light. The ECM throws a code for EGR and turns on the light, a nuisance. The 87-88 ECM (079) is said to be a little better, faster, than the earlier ECMs and is the choice for the CCC system, and the only ECM that is used with the delete PROM. ECMs for each year are different, PROMS can't be switched between years. The 87-88 ECM has become the standard for anyone looking to stay with the CCC. The 079 ECM was used in most all the 87-88 CCC engines, whether SS, Camaro or Caprice.
Performance wise the 079 and related PROMs may be a tad more aggressive with ignition timing, and still maintains the knock sensor. Early (pre 84) ECM didn't have knock retard, a good feature on the L69 especially due to it's higher compression and poor chamber design.

Eric, you're not going back to CCC?
Bob

#1054821 - 12/14/17 05:10 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Bob, thanks for the information. No, I am not going back to it. One of the guys on here that I work on his car was curious and asked me. I was like you know I don't know let me ask. My next motor is LS all the way with a turbo more than likely a 5.3 on day anyway.

Sorry didn't mean to hijack this for sale thread.


84 Monte Carlo SC 406 SBC
78 Monte Carlo 305 sbc SOLD
78 Monte Carlo Landua 350 sbc SOLD
81 Malibu Classic 350 sbc SOLD
84 Monte Carlo LS 350 sbc SOLD
84 Buick Regal 229 v6 SOLD

#1054822 - 12/14/17 05:46 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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Bitflipper Offline
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The statement that "Early (pre 84) ECM didn't have knock retard" may not be correct. Member "oemtech" here has an 83 SS and asked me about my custom chip. I went to the trouble of deleting the ESC for him. But after doing that, I asked him to look under his hood, and sure enough, there's an ESC under there. I did not ask him to crawl under his car and look for a knock sensor, but I'd be betting it's there if GM bothered to put the ESC under the hood. I sent him the same ESC-enabled chip I send everyone else and it worked fine, no ESC trouble codes.


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#1054824 - 12/14/17 06:50 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: 406monte]  
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PB86SS/87LS Online beer
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Originally Posted by 406monte
Just out of curiosity what all do you gain from swapping to a ZZ4 prom?


Not just deleting the EGR, I had to search a bit for more info, I bought a ZZ4 PROM back when it was still available for my 383 swap. Nice that Bitflipper still offers this or was as tuning for our ECM's has pretty much always been non existent, even when Hypertech was (likely) not doing anything or much to the chips they sold.

From what I can find, the ZZ4 prom also changes some settings for when the convertor locks up (higher speed), spark curve and carb duty cyle (not sure what that means), probably some more, maybe Bitflipper can get into detail on the changes.


-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42 -313/344@RW - 13.35 @103
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42 -248/340@RW - 14.55 @ 96
-81'Grand LeMans Safari Wagon 3.8 2bbl/200C/2.73
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
[Linked Image]
#1054826 - 12/14/17 07:53 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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It could be all SS L69 got the ESC. I was dealing with a guy that had an early 80s CCC El Camino, no ESC on it.

The 079 that is still inside the kick panel on my car, not used anymore, has the ZZ4 EGR delete PROM in it. Part #24502456 was the original number for the ZZ4 PROM.
I always ran premium in the old 305 because it was ping prone. It actually was better after the ZZ4 PROM and 079 ECM was swapped in.
Bob

#1054830 - 12/14/17 09:19 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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I detailed what I could about the differences between the L69 and ZZ4 proms here:

ZZ4 Prom Chip?

Specifically with respect to the lock-up speed:

000001DC: 7A 70 - 31DC: 70 FCB $70 ; MIN SPEED FOR TPS LOCK
000001F9: FF 80 - 31F9: 80 FCB $80 ; MIN SPEED TO LOCK 3RD
000001FA: FF 70 - 31FA: 70 FCB $70 ; MIN SPEED STAY LOCKED 3RD
00000209: 7A 80 - 3209: 80 FCB $80 ; MIN SPEED TO LOCK 4TH
*************** - 320A: 70 FCB $70 ; MIN SPEED STAY LOCKED 4TH

Minimum speed for L69 to lock is 38.125 MPH. Minimum speed for ZZ4 to lock is 35 MPH. But that's not the end of the story.

Minimum speed for L69 to lock in 3rd is not defined. Minimum speed for ZZ4 to lock in 3rd is 35 MPH. The code is really difficult to untangle, but if I understand it correctly, this won't be used in either L69 or ZZ4 because they are defined as having overdrive transmission.

Minimum speed for L69 to lock in 4th is not defined. Minimum speed for ZZ4 to lock in 4th is 40 MPH.

So yes, minor differences in when the lock-up happens between the two chips.


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#1054832 - 12/15/17 01:28 AM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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Can't help with details about lockup and the PROM, the 305 had 6 gears and a clutch when I did the ZZ4 PROM change. I can say the L69 went 14.9 @93.5 with a set of TES and a little tweaking on the carb.
Bob

#1055423 - 01/19/18 12:56 AM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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I havr a quick question with using a ZZ4 prom. Should the base timing be set to stock at 6 degrees BTDC or is it ok to have base timing set at 10 degrees BTDC with running this prom?

Last edited by Buick Runner; 01/19/18 01:01 AM.

SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1055439 - 01/19/18 04:40 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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Here is what I say in my installation tips/notes that some members opt to receive from me:

"You may want to think about getting an old OBD-1 scanner or USB-Serial cable and build an ALDL adapter with a Jones connector (I wrote an article on the forum about this), that is if you don't have one. My custom ZZ4 chip deletes the Spark Advance that gets added when you plug in a scanner so you can actually drive the car with the scanner connected and it will behave the same as if it was not. Amongst many other things, this is good for tuning your timing and confirming you aren't going too far to the point where your engine is constantly knocking. Set your initial timing somewhere between 8 and 12 degrees BTDC and you should feel a little more pull while driving."

Some people have an ear for the "Ping" of the knock, I personally have trouble distinguishing that from any other engine noise. If you can do it by ear, great. Most scientific way is monitoring with a scanner.


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#1055444 - 01/20/18 02:13 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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You mean something like this...

[Linked Image]


Dale (AKA - Oemtech - Oemy)
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83 Monte Carlo SS
My Monte Carlo SS Web Site
#1055448 - 01/21/18 12:14 AM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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Yes, except that the cable I bought cannot handle the 12 volt signal that comes out of the 1228079 ECM ALDL line. Be aware that you may need to craft a voltage divider. I did a write up a while back on it. Anyone with a soldering iron can build one - it doesn't have to be pretty, just solid.

http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=998840

Let me guess - Someone is going to ask me to build one for them anyway just like you guys talked me into selling the EPROMs. :-O


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#1061174 - 03/15/19 06:02 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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Sent you a pm for a chip bitflipper.

#1061281 - 03/25/19 10:20 AM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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Hi Bitflipper,

I am am interested in your ZZ4 chip. Tried sending pm but box is full.

Thanks,

Jim

#1061286 - 03/25/19 06:21 PM Re: Customized ZZ4 EPROMs for sale [Re: Bitflipper]  
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Hi Jim,

Yeah, apologies, 30 threads is all it takes to fill it up. I'll clear out a few and PM you.


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