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#1060458 - 01/16/19 10:58 PM T5 transmission clutch diaphragm  
Joined: Dec 2014
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800rmk Offline
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Mayerthorpe, AB
Can someone who has installed a T5 in their Monte (or has one in another vehicle)tell me what type of diaphragm the pressure plate has if they used a mid 80's Camaro T5? Flat or raised? Looking at putting a T5 in my Monte using a flywheel and pressure plate from a mid 80's z28. (I haven't forgot about you Sick Speed Monte(Bernie) from our previous conversations about a pedal)


1985 Monte Carlo SS Vortec headed 355, Howards 215/225 cam, 200r4 with trans go kit,Patriot headers and magnaflow mufflers, 7.5" 3:73 diff
soon to install: 8.5 inch diff from 84 Olds 442
#1060469 - 01/18/19 07:13 AM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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mmc427ss  Offline
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Pottstown, Pa
Some good reading here:
https://garage-scene.com/t5-into-ag-body/

How much clutch you need depends on a few things. A pedal pressure you can live with, how important is traction and how much power do you produce, all are part of the choice. Being you're doing a T5 and your engine makes good power a degree of sanity is in order,


The Centerforce Dual Friction was a good first clutch in my car. Although a T56 car ran that behind both the 305 and later the 427 for a few years. Good feel and lite pedal effort, my wife could drive the car, never slipped, was a good clutch for both engines, When I went to sticky slicks on the car upgraded to a 700 lb/ft ON/OFF switch that chattered in reverse. Good for drags but took a long time to get used to it. So don't put more clutch in the car than it really needs, don't get oversold.

What are you using for a flywheel, new or used? Don't cheap out there. A new GM flywheel for that setup is pricey and I believe nodular which is acceptable.. If you see cheap new probably cast iron, not good. Resurfacing the original may be an alternative, but it's a 30 year old wheel that may have been cut before.

Bob

#1060470 - 01/18/19 02:16 PM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
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800rmk Offline
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Mayerthorpe, AB
I know the limitations of the T5. I am dealing with a guy here in Canada who builds manual trannys of all kinds. Lots of T5's, he's big in the Mustang crowd and seems quite respected from what I have found. He does a lot of conversions. The car will never see the track, although I do some spirited driving at times I am pretty nice to it. lol Its a cruiser mostly. T56's are pretty hard to find in my part of the country and a new Tremmec is way out of my budget. Anyway, I bought a new Luk flywheel and am slowly collecting the hydraulics, adapter plate(using a Mustang T5) Going to use Bernies' pedal assembly. Going back to my original concern about pressure plates I am using a Howe hydraulic throw out bearing and it is supposed to work with OEM style clutch assemblies, no racing clutches. I have found flat and raised diaphragm pressure plates for mid 80's Camaros. The raised diaphragm looks to be higher clamping force. I am thinking a stock clutch assembly rated for 190 hp 305 may be too light in my car, yet as you say I don't want to over clutch it and damage the transmission. I am probably overthinking this lol What would be a good street clutch( something with a little more clamping power than stock )? The Centerforce as you mentioned?


1985 Monte Carlo SS Vortec headed 355, Howards 215/225 cam, 200r4 with trans go kit,Patriot headers and magnaflow mufflers, 7.5" 3:73 diff
soon to install: 8.5 inch diff from 84 Olds 442
#1060506 - 01/21/19 04:19 AM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,238
mmc427ss Offline
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mmc427ss  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,238
Pottstown, Pa
This is the Centerforce clutch I ran for several years, it an odd setup from the 87 Vette with hydraulic clutch.
www.centerforce.com/product/dual-friction-df161911-0002?gfid=p60379-c322117

A full 10 3/4" disc with a 10 3/4' pressure plate that bolts to a 153 flywheel. A 10 1/2" disc is actually only 10 3/8". My thoughts and the recommendation of Centerforce was you get more friction surface in a small package, so you can get by with lighter pedal pressure. One special requirement when running that setup was the pressure plate bolts were special 3/8-16 bolts with a reduced 1/2" hex size so as not to touch the disc. Thought they were RAM bolts when I bought them 16 years ago but they are like these McLeod bolts.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-1500/overview/

For several years that setup wasn't available from Centerforce because they had trouble sourcing the 10 3/4" pressure plate, quality issues. But it appears it's now available again.
Have a friend that also has been using this same clutch in his 67 Nova with a Muncie, he loves it.
Bob

#1060510 - 01/21/19 04:28 PM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
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800rmk Offline
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Mayerthorpe, AB
Ok thanks Bob. I will take a look!


1985 Monte Carlo SS Vortec headed 355, Howards 215/225 cam, 200r4 with trans go kit,Patriot headers and magnaflow mufflers, 7.5" 3:73 diff
soon to install: 8.5 inch diff from 84 Olds 442
#1060516 - 01/21/19 10:59 PM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
Joined: Jan 2000
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mmc427ss Offline
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mmc427ss  Offline
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Pottstown, Pa
Here's another site to look at a T5 install in a G-body.
http://www.bowtiepower.com/T5conversion.html

The 82-83 F-body was a mechanical linkage setup, 84 and up F-body is hydraulics. Would think most clutch suppliers take for granted 3rd Gen F are all hydraulic. Generally a hydraulic pressure plate has less static pressure, due to less advantage of the hydraulic linkage. So generally you get less clamping force but the pedal pressure is not overly firm with stock replacement hydraulics pressure plates. Now you throw in a high performance clutch and the static pressure goes up, time for Bernie's clutch pedal and his innovations.
In the end with a stick shift G-body the problem is always the left header and clutch linkage needing to be in the same space. Hydraulic is the choice in 95% of the stick installs done, makes header choice much easier. And today all the trans donors are hydraulic.

Me I'm old school mechanical from an 82 El Camino, although that stock original G linkage has been modified a good bit.
Bob

#1060669 - 02/07/19 02:00 PM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
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84ss355*4spd Offline
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Edmonton,AB,Canada
I used a master cylinder for a 84 z28.hooked tjat up to a ram hydraulic release bearing and had a nice working hydraulic system.pedal was easy t9 push felt like a modern car .depending what t5 your using .one has 1"-14 spline (v6), and i think the v8 is 1.125 -28 spline cant remember . Oh and with the hydraulic release bearing there is no mechanical lincage to get in the way of headers.opens up more options for headers.i used flow tech after burner long tubes .

Last edited by 84ss355*4spd; 02/07/19 02:02 PM.

84ss current restoration
86 ss gone
85 ss new
85 z28 tpi
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#1061072 - 03/11/19 01:41 AM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
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800rmk Offline
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Mayerthorpe, AB
Bob, I recently bought a Sachs clutch kit to fit a 85-88 vette, 10.75". Overstocked items at a local shop. Great deal. Anyway, I guess I am confused about using special pressure plate bolts. Is it just when using the Centerforce kit you gave the link to?


1985 Monte Carlo SS Vortec headed 355, Howards 215/225 cam, 200r4 with trans go kit,Patriot headers and magnaflow mufflers, 7.5" 3:73 diff
soon to install: 8.5 inch diff from 84 Olds 442
#1061076 - 03/11/19 02:30 AM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,238
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,238
Pottstown, Pa
Measure the OD of the disc, is it 10 3/4"? If so then lay the pressure plate on top of the disc and you can see how much clearance you have at the 6 pressure plate bolts. In order to mount that 10 3/4" disc under a 10 3/4" plate there will be an area clearanced for putting a socket on the bolt. The plate will be cut away, you can see the edge of the disc. A 9/16" socket for a standard 3/8" bolt head doesn't fit to tighten the bolt. A bolt with a 1/2" head and machine smaller OD works. Even the disc when rotating will be very close if not hitting the 9/16 head of the bolt.

Most of the pressure plate covers are made by Sachs, even the Centerforce cover had Sachs stamped into it. It's the static pressure and disc materials that upgrade clutches for the most part. Good deal if you got it cheap.
Bob

Here's another example of the bolt i used.
https://shiftsst.com/gm-amc-mopar-pressure-plate-bolts-6-piece.html
Bob

#1061077 - 03/11/19 03:15 AM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
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800rmk Offline
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Mayerthorpe, AB
Ok, I understand now! Yeah the whole kit was 93 bucks Canadian. Figured I’d give it a try. Thanks again


1985 Monte Carlo SS Vortec headed 355, Howards 215/225 cam, 200r4 with trans go kit,Patriot headers and magnaflow mufflers, 7.5" 3:73 diff
soon to install: 8.5 inch diff from 84 Olds 442
#1061078 - 03/11/19 03:44 AM Re: T5 transmission clutch diaphragm [Re: 800rmk]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,238
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,238
Pottstown, Pa
The 10 3/4" were hard to find for a while. Sachs had problems with the 10 3/4" stampings and Centerforce stopped selling a 10 3/4" for several years.
There is a sizable increase in grip going from a 10 1/2" clutch (actually a 10 3/8" disc) to a full 10 3/4" disc setup. With the 10 3/4 less static pressure is needed and it fits on a 153 flywheel, a win win. An 11" clutch usually has a 10 7/8' disc if I remember correctly and only can go on a 168 flywheel.

90 bucks Canadian, priceless.
Bob


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