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#1060034 - 11/26/18 08:02 PM Starter recommendations  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
Looking for starter recomendations for my 10.5:1 compression 400 with long tube headers.

It needs to be a offset bolt pattern on the starter.

I've burned thru a couple of part store starters so I tried power master starter and that one turned out to be defective, so looking for some ideas of what to go with.

Thanks in advance

#1060035 - 11/26/18 08:33 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Reno, NV
What is going on with the engine crank that is causing you to burn out starters? Heat from the headers might also damage the starter.

Last edited by upflying; 11/26/18 08:34 PM.

86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, QP 9", Eaton Truetrac, 4 wheel disc, column shift, Dakota Digital, silver with maroon bench interior

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#1060036 - 11/26/18 09:20 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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AkronAero Online content
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Akron OH
Ethan,
How long did the first starter run (years?) and was anything done electrically/mechanically beforehand that might have set it off?
What were the symptoms and how long did each starter run?
How are your electricals? Weak or corroded battery? Poor connections?
Can Autozone or others run diagnostics during crank (they do on the battery side).
10.5 doesn't seem too high, but I went to a high-torgue (mini-starter) as an upgrade when I took mine to a 9.9:1 compression.
Gordon

#1060037 - 11/26/18 09:31 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Thanks Akron, this was the point I was trying to make. OP should find out what is killing the starters and fix that before searching for a more durable starter. Is it a long no start crank due to weak ignition parts or carburetor flooding/ air fuel mixture issues or is the starter bumping up against a compression stroke because the timing is too advanced.A hot engine with pre-ignition is also hard on a starter.

Last edited by upflying; 11/26/18 09:56 PM.

86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, QP 9", Eaton Truetrac, 4 wheel disc, column shift, Dakota Digital, silver with maroon bench interior

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#1060040 - 11/26/18 11:00 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
The first 1 lasted well over a year. The second one was a defect, the solenoid came apart cuz it was loose.

And this last one makes a sound like it's spinning internally. Since I put it in. And it's a high torque mini starter.

Right now the distributor is unplugged so the engine isn't even trying to fire when i try to crank it.

I might just throw another part store one in since I got a decent run out of the first one, and they've worked for me in the past.

I was just curious to what you guys use.

The battery is brand new as well. And all my connections are clean and tight

Last edited by Ethan; 11/26/18 11:02 PM.
#1060045 - 11/26/18 11:53 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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MY FYN 79 Offline
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Go with a GM mini starter. I ran quite a few of these over the years and they work good. Just make sure you get one that matches the flexplate size and starter bolt pattern you need.

I'm not suggesting you buy it from here, but this is the style of starter I'm referring to.

https://www.amazon.com/Chevy-Racing...mp;psc=1&refRID=98VGZSZJP5HTADDQD4PE


~Jeremy~
79 Monte - Sold 5-11-13
Welcome Natalee Mae 3-16-12
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#1060046 - 11/27/18 12:38 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: MY FYN 79]  
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North Babylon, NY
Yea that one looks like the one I had that worked for over a year and had previously that worked for over 2 years b4 I burnt it up when my battend cable hit my header. These car quest ones I've been using look similar but just seem to lack the quality.

Did you have to shim yours? I've never had to shim my previous 2 good ones but the power master that was crap needed to be shimmed

#1060048 - 11/27/18 02:49 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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find a 350 starter and take it to a starter shop and tell them what you are trying to crank, make sure it's a long body starter and not the short body 305 starter and good luck!!


Leo Paugh
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#1060050 - 11/27/18 05:29 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: 86ttop]  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
It's definitely not a 305 starter I've been using haha. The power master starter was suppose to be good for a higher compression than what I have. But I probably just got a defect. It happens

#1060051 - 11/27/18 05:55 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Dharma station 1 the Hydra
Check you negative ground cable, I had a problem with my mini starter burning up the little memory saver negative wire that goes to the fender. Moved the thick negative battery cable to one of the starter's mounting bolts and no more problems. Stock location for the negative cable is one of the front mounting brackets but after 30 years of rust, they do not conduct ground as well as they used too and it would be a major PITA to dissemble all the brackets to clean every mounting point.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060052 - 11/27/18 09:23 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Buick Runner]  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
My negative cable mounts to my head, and I have the little wire on the inner fender.

Is the inner fender area what you mean when you said it rusts?

I'll have to check on the little wire and see if it's burnt up

#1060074 - 11/27/18 11:49 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Dharma station 1 the Hydra
Originally Posted by Ethan
My negative cable mounts to my head, and I have the little wire on the inner fender.

Is the inner fender area what you mean when you said it rusts?

I'll have to check on the little wire and see if it's burnt up


I meant the thick cable, on my engine the main negative cable was originally mounted to the alternator bracket, and it was just rusty enough to interfere with amp flow. So the starter tried to pull the amps through the little wire instead, which couldn't handle it and burnt up. Moved the thick cable to a starter mounting bolt and no more burnt little wire.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060081 - 11/28/18 11:31 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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MY FYN 79 Offline
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I never had to shim one of the gm style starters like linked above.


~Jeremy~
79 Monte - Sold 5-11-13
Welcome Natalee Mae 3-16-12
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#1060086 - 11/28/18 11:59 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Dharma station 1 the Hydra
My starter did not require any shims either


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060132 - 12/02/18 07:43 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: 86ttop]  
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Originally Posted by 86ttop
find a 350 starter and take it to a starter shop and tell them what you are trying to crank


If he can find a place to take his starter...they're becoming more difficult to find.


-'87 Monte SS LS 2/4L65e Quick Perf. 9" w/disk brakes
-'89 Iroc Z28 Stock 5.7 Edelb. TES headers, Borla Exhaust90K
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#1060142 - 12/03/18 02:34 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: jmireles]  
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Originally Posted by jmireles
Originally Posted by 86ttop
find a 350 starter and take it to a starter shop and tell them what you are trying to crank


If he can find a place to take his starter...they're becoming more difficult to find.



True frown


Leo Paugh
It's not an attitude, it's just the way I am.
POW*MIA
You are not forgotten
If things improve with age, I must be approaching magnificent. thumbs
#1060825 - 02/19/19 08:00 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
Okay so I bought the recomended gm style starter, worked great sounded fine. Let the car idle, took it to a gas station then went to start it again and it sounded horrible.

Sounded horrible and wudnt crank the car. Left it for a few hours so I could push it home with no traffic. When I went back to it I cranked it and it started right up. Got it home, went out the next day and it's making horrible noises and won't crank. I'm thinking maybe the heat from the headers is killing my starters.

What do you guys think?

#1060826 - 02/19/19 10:50 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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AkronAero Online content
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Akron OH
Click but no turn? Check for good wiring connections and battery.
But if by not cranking to you mean you hear the starter turning (and spinning) but not engage or maybe grinding? Then its perhaps alignment.
Gordon

#1060827 - 02/20/19 12:33 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Hatfield, PA
You could be like me. Sluggish cranking, groaning and ignition clicking like crazy when the starter is hot. Heat soak on a cheap starter, poor wiring and grounds and an undersized battery for the win.


Justin
1986 Black SS
Upgrades: 350 L05 - Hooker Longtubes - FlowMaster True Dual 2.5" - Electric Cutouts - Electric Fans - Transcooler - Proforged Steering Kit - Astro Shaft - AR62 OUTLAW II Wheels - Energy Suspension Bushings - Bitflipper Chip - 87 ECM - Moog Springs and Ball Joints - Bilstein Shocks - Bucket Seats
#1060828 - 02/20/19 01:25 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
The starter is spinning and grinding. Like not engaging. But it was doing perfectly fine when I first put it in. Until i let the car run for a while and then shut it off at the gas station. And this is the second starter this exact thing has happened with.

The fact that it worked after sitting for a few hours made me think I got hot than cooled. But now it's not engaging again. Maybe the heat damaged it and it had one good crank left in it. Idk.

So I'm lost. Maybe it's wiring but I've checked thru it and it all looks good.

Im just confused at this point. Battery is new and higher cranking amps then the battery I used for 5 years too

#1060829 - 02/20/19 01:47 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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AkronAero Online content
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I actually had a bend flex plate (flywheel) and sometimes it would engage and sometimes it wouldn't. maybe take a few tries. Had power but depending on where it was on the rotation, it would engage immediately, grind or not engage at all (spin free).
Swapped out flex plate and all is well.
Thoughts?
Gordon

#1060838 - 02/20/19 07:33 AM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: AkronAero]  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
I thought about that, but when I first put the starter in I cranked it without the distributor plugged in to see if it made any weird sounds on the flywheel and it was fine. Probably made 4 or 5 full rotations.

The issues seem to start after the car is running for a bit

And the flexplate doesn't have any obvious damage, but anything is possible.

I'm open to all suggestions haha

#1060842 - 02/20/19 04:55 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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Pull the starter down and look at the teeth on the Brendix. Are they damaged ? Are you using shims between starter and block ?


83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#1060843 - 02/20/19 06:14 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Richie Cat]  
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Ethan Offline
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North Babylon, NY
Haven't check this starters teeth upclose yet, from under the car they look fine. The last starters teeth were fine. The teeth on the flexplate seem fine too.

This one doesn't have shims, the last one I tried with all types of shims after it started to make noise and they didn't help at all. It sounded great when I first put it in so I figured no need for shims.

#1060844 - 02/20/19 07:22 PM Re: Starter recommendations [Re: Ethan]  
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If it is bent, the position of the flexplate will sometimes be good and engage easily and other times not at all.
My Bendix and flexplate teeth did not look that bad at a distance but on closer inspection did show non-uniform wear.
My warp was probably 3/4" out of line so if the high spot stopped at the starter it was difficult / random to get engagement as the Bendix gear did not extend that far.
It sometimes took several tries, and then grabbed.
If you can get under easily, measure distance to flexplate and turn and measure again. get a number of these and see how close they are grouped.
Gordon

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