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#1060067 - 11/27/18 05:46 PM Numbers matching?  
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Freewheel Offline
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Moravian Falls, NC
I come from the Corvette community, I have 1959. In that world, (NCRS, Bloomington Gold, NCCC) “matching numbers” is a big deal. I have a 1985 SS with the original305 engine. That engine is tired and doesn’t perform at the level this great car deserves. I call her “ol Smokey” because she looks like a two stroke weed whacker when she starts..... blue smoke a’ plenty.

I’m planning to replace the original engine with a new crate engine. Is there reason to save the original power plant to preserve a “numbers matching car” or is the old 305 just three hundred pounds of lawn art? Used 305 engines are plentiful here, and garage space is at a premium, so I’d rather not have a used engine of little value occuping floor space.

Thanks!

#1060068 - 11/27/18 05:59 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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I would say it's not worth keeping, if space is a premium. Is your SS an otherwise all original/low mile car? If so, I'd try to keep it, but if a different engine is going in, it's highly doubtful to see someone wanting to put a 305 back in. They aren't worth much even in nice running/clean shape, so don't expect much when selling it either in my experience.


-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42 -313/344@RW - 13.35 @103
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42 -248/340@RW - 14.55 @ 96
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
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#1060070 - 11/27/18 06:04 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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It’a a rust free, accident free car with a nice original interior (for a thirty-three year old car). It’s been repainted and the wheels were replaced with torque thrust II’s by a previous owner.

I just wasn’t sure if “numbers matching” is a thing in the Monte Carlo community.

#1060071 - 11/27/18 07:09 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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New Berlin, WI
I think it is but nothing like the Corvette community or older muscle cars where powerplants are what was a huge part of what made them what they are. There is a portion of the Monte community that prefers/likes the numbers matching and would prefer cars that way but most people here or that I've run into over the years don't fall into that group. Glad there are some that are intent on keeping them that way though, as much as I like my modified ones I appreciate the all original cars.

What made the SS popular is more of the styling, it did perform well enough for that era which some forget though. Sounds like a nice SS, if you have pictures feel free to post them.


-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42 -313/344@RW - 13.35 @103
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42 -248/340@RW - 14.55 @ 96
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
[Linked Image]
#1060073 - 11/27/18 09:32 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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Before you toss the L69, install new valve guides and see if that cures the smoky startup. Numbers matching might be important to some future owner of your car.


86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, QP 9", Eaton Truetrac, 4 wheel disc, column shift, Dakota Digital, silver with maroon bench interior

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#1060077 - 11/28/18 02:19 AM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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You could have a machine shop rebuild and stroke it and that would really wake it up, but your car, your choice. Good luck with your car!!


Leo Paugh
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POW*MIA
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#1060082 - 11/28/18 12:16 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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FWIW I'm in a similar situation where it would be cheaper to install a crate motor and get more power and cure reliability woes of my current setup and I'm torn. I really want a numbers matching car but I want more power. Its probably twice the price to keep it that way but its my plan when I can find a machine shop that I can trust to work on it. That and slowly buy the parts so the wife doesn't catch on and stop me.


[Linked Image]
1987 Monte Carlo SS Aerocoupe
Objects in mirror are losing
https://www.flickr.com/gp/34317731@N08/3xk4xk
#1060084 - 11/28/18 06:36 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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First, welcome Adam.

To me, the entire reason for owning a car is to enjoy it. If it were a "rare" car, I can justify in keeping her completely stock (numbers matching) But, a lot of Monte Carlo's were produced. I say bolt-ons and simple crate engine swaps (where no modifying or cutting is done) is fine. That way, if the next owner chooses to do so, it can easily be switched back to stock. No harm, no foul. Enjoy your car, that's why you bought it.


Jeff

I know I don't get there often enough, but God knows I surely try.
It's a magic kind of medicine, that no doctor could perscribe.
Jimmy Buffett One Particular Harbor
#1060087 - 11/29/18 02:47 AM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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I bought my SS new in 86 and when I pulled the 305 I thought on it a bit. I have owned many corvettes, camaros and Trans ams. Matching numbers used to mean something to me but not anymore. I want more out of the car for my enjoyment. I junked the 305 for the LSx swap just like I junked my 403 olds out of my 79 TA for a new 461.

Regards,
Ron.


Be a car builder, not a googler!
#1060100 - 11/29/18 05:07 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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I would say that for 4th generation MCSSs, numbers matching, at least right now, is not a priority. The cars where it did matter were those where the engine was legendary and broke new ground in terms of performance and power, i.e. the Mopar 426 Hemi, Ford Cobra Jet, hot 350 GM engines and just about any performance V8 fitted to a classic era muscle car.

The 80's G Body platform was crippled by emissions and fuel regulations, even so the L69 equipped Monte Carlo SS was still a respectable performer considering (the turbo Buick V6 even more so). However, the 305's long stroke and small bores make it harder to tune/ modify for performance compared with a SBC 350. And seeing as the 350 is of the same family as the 305, it's no surprise that many swap out the 305 for a 350 for an easy power upgrade. A 350 in place of a 305 looks pretty much the same to the untrained eye, plus to keep things even more original under the hood the 305's Q-Jet will hook right up and work well with the bigger engine.

Saying that, who knows what the future holds? Prices of all G Bodies have been rising, though whether they will go sky high as per 50's classics or 60's muscle remains to be seen. I would say that if you can find some space for the 305, then no harm in keeping ahold of it. Worst comes to the worst, you could strip it down, paint the bare block, stick a glass panel on top of it and have a cool as ice coffee table. It would probably be worth more like that than a tired 305 too! 😂


1986 Monte Carlo SS

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#1060101 - 11/29/18 05:22 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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Hang onto the motor.

Last edited by carlss; 11/29/18 05:22 PM.
#1060103 - 11/29/18 05:33 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: ChasUno]  
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Originally Posted by ChasUno

Saying that, who knows what the future holds? Prices of all G Bodies have been rising, though whether they will go sky high as per 50's classics or 60's muscle remains to be seen. I would say that if you can find some space for the 305, then no harm in keeping ahold of it. Worst comes to the worst, you could strip it down, paint the bare block, stick a glass panel on top of it and have a cool as ice coffee table. It would probably be worth more like that than a tired 305 too! 😂


Good idea. I used two of the 305's I had recently similarly, taking the crank/flexplate/balancer and finding a clear round top for an end table. Ended up selling one for a small amount, the other is in our rec room, looks cool, just de-greased it then clear coated it. I kept one 305 block and pistons to "someday" get cleaned/painted and made into a coffee table too. Takes up a small spot in the garage on a wheel dolly. For how little it's worth in scrap might as well re-purpose it.


-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42 -313/344@RW - 13.35 @103
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42 -248/340@RW - 14.55 @ 96
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
[Linked Image]
#1060110 - 11/30/18 03:55 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Freewheel]  
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Since I was 16, all I ever wanted was a monte with a 350 engine.
I always felt that it was meant to have one.

My opinion is numbers matching is dumb for any monte except a very low mileage show car.

I have a short list of Monte's that i would throw cash at to own. All are heavily modified top to bottom, but mostly stock appearing.

These are the last generation of the old school cars, the last platform to build on. Almost every part on the car has some form of actual upgrade.


Justin
1986 Black SS
Upgrades: 350 L05 - Hooker Longtubes - FlowMaster True Dual 2.5" - Electric Cutouts - Electric Fans - Transcooler - Proforged Steering Kit - Astro Shaft - AR62 OUTLAW II Wheels - Energy Suspension Bushings - Bitflipper Chip - 87 ECM - Moog Springs and Ball Joints - Bilstein Shocks - Bucket Seats
#1060131 - 12/02/18 06:28 AM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: upflying]  
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Originally Posted by upflying
Before you toss the L69, install new valve guides and see if that cures the smoky startup. Numbers matching might be important to some future owner of your car.



May even by just the stem seals, which was a common problem for SBCs of that era. How many miles does the car have?


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060139 - 12/02/18 07:29 PM Re: Numbers matching? [Re: Witness86SS]  
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Bradenton, FL
Originally Posted by Witness86SS
Since I was 16, all I ever wanted was a monte with a 350 engine.
I always felt that it was meant to have one.


Mexican Monte SS's did indeed come with the 350 from the factory. I wonder why US versions didn't? Was it because of emissions?

Mexican Montes also came with the Grand Prix dashboard, which looks so good too. Whoever at GM that came up with the Mexican market specifications was clearly an enthusiast!


1986 Monte Carlo SS

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