MonteCarloSS.com
MonteCarloSS.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 66 of 69 1 2 64 65 66 67 68 69
#1059296 - 10/04/18 03:13 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
Pottstown, Pa
The FE2 box is the XH coded box from the 3rd Gen F body with 16" wheels. I've run that box for about 15 years now. They are very hard to find these days, occasionally one will pop up for sale. It's hard to say if that box would cure the rub as all the changes on your front suspension, wheel/tire combo, control arms, spindles, steering arms would change clearance.
I think you mod the stops for now until you have a 670 box built for the car.
Bob

#1059301 - 10/04/18 07:02 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
I think I know what to do here... This is the stop as it currently sits.

[Linked Image]

This is where it goes when the back of the tire touches the frame.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I'm thinking I need to get some steel the same thickness as the current stop and butt weld it to the stop extending it the length I need it to be. Thoughts?

Hardest part might be deciding just how far to extend it... And the welding it well enough so it doesn't break off of course... laugh


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059303 - 10/04/18 07:50 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,706
200kSS Offline
15+ Year
200kSS  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,706
Bloomsdale, MO
I like the idea. Make it extend further than you may need and grind it down as needed. You own/operate a welder....better off than some of us already!


88 SS Black/Oxblood. Power Tour car
80 Malibu 2dr. Drag Week car
#1059326 - 10/07/18 11:37 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
Well, that worked out pretty good actually...

Found some scrap steel just a touch thinner than the stop on the A arm, cut it to size and butt welded it onto the end extending the stop about the thickness of my finger.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Can just fit my finger between the edge of the tire and the frame at full lock now.

[Linked Image]

Left a little wiggle room for tire deflection just in case. I must say, it is going to be nice being able to turn to the stop without having the tire dig into the frame once again...been YEARS since I could do that.

Now onto mounting up the tube portion of the sway bar...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059330 - 10/08/18 12:10 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 310
Lincoln7 Offline
10+ Year
Lincoln7  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 310
hampton roads, VA
Nice fix!

I'm having frame rub with just 255 tires and will be doing a similar fix soon. Keep us updated on how it holds up/your thoughts on the static gap you left between the tire and frame. Perhaps put some fresh paint where your tire was rubbing to see if any new contact is made.


[Linked Image]
86 MCSS 408sbc, T56, 8.5" 3.73 posi 12.3 @ 113mph, 23 mpg hwy
#1059335 - 10/08/18 05:05 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
Will do... I'm pretty sure it's all going to be good though.

I also found something else during this project. The steering stop on the pass LCA was "bent" a little bit and the side of it hit the steering arm before the end of it hit the spindle. This was limiting the right hand turn enough to keep the tire off of the frame (also limiting how sharp it would turn to the right).

Since I did all of my measuring and mockup for the stop extension on the driver side, and then just duplicated for the passenger side, you can imagine my surprise when after paint was dry...I put it all back together, put the wheel on and could put my arm between the tire and frame at full lock. mad

It took me a bit to figure out was going on...tried to make it turn more by grinding down the end of the stop with no success. Finally took a BFH and bent the stop toward the caliper bolt just a bit and BAM...tire is back to just a finger's width away from the frame.

All of this should have been done a year ago when I put the new spindles on but I just didn't have the time then. The new ATS spindles changed just about everything in regard to suspension travel and tire placement and things just haven't been playing nice together ever since. Finally got the contact patch geometry back to where it needed to be (actually WAY better than before) now I've finally got the suspension travel and tire placement to where it'll all play nice together once again. This is why I waited so long to do the brake upgrade...I knew I'd have to redo everything that I had worked so hard on getting right with the old spindles.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059353 - 10/09/18 11:05 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
Got a little metal work and mock up done today... I must say it is pretty nice to be able to raise and lower the ride height with the tires on the ramps and the jack under the cross member. Sure helped when trying to make sure nothing is binding anywhere.

Modded the angled stands to make them straight stands and cut the tube to length and have it set where I think it needs to be.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

These show that it really doesn't hang very low at all and I think looks pretty dang racey.

[Linked Image]


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059379 - 10/11/18 09:16 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
Plan B initiated...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059384 - 10/12/18 05:11 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
Pottstown, Pa
Done yet???????

Never surprised how a little project can become something much more involved. I do envy your lift. As I was laying under the rear of my car tonight setting the rear susp up for drag racing tomorrow night I thought how nice it would be to have it on a lift, I hate creepers. My ponytail sometimes get wrapped around the creeper wheel axles at times. Doesn't make me to happy.

Once the bar is glued in how much ground clearance will it have. I always try to have the frame crossmember as the lowest point in the front.
Bob

#1059386 - 10/12/18 01:21 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
I'm fighting s couple different things, first and foremost was the angle of the endlink rod end coming g off the lower control arm. The arm moves in toward the center of the car quite a bit under compression and I didnt compensate enough for that with original placement of the tabs. Spent 3 days trying to work around that, then about an hour cutting it all off in preparation for starting over.

Second issue is how high or low I mount the tube itself. Again, the height affects the swing arc of the end links which affect the front to back movement of the rod ends during travel. I'm trying desperately to save the UMI bar and even to use it as additional support for the tube by welding the tube directly to it..but this will most likely mean the tube itself will be an inch or so lower than crossmember in final placement

We'll see... I'm more worried about travel and bind and length of swing arm than ground clearance...but clearance is a concern as well.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059405 - 10/14/18 09:17 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
Well, it's all tacked into place for the last time...Uh...this time anyway. If I happen to knock it off on a speed bump at any time, I do have a plan B. For now it all fits and the suspension travels full extension to full compression without any bind of the end links which is huge. Once I burn in all of the welds I'm pretty confident it'll all stay in place and function great.

Finished cleaning the LCAs up from Plan A, needed a fresh place to start again.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

This is the only picture I took of the new tabs secured to the LCA in the new location. They are in closer to the car centerline by 3 Inches or so and canted a bit more than before. I am able to get the lower rod end into either hole in the swing arm without taking the top end loose which is nice.

[Linked Image]

Here is the tube, bar and swing arms hanging in their final spot.

[Linked Image]

The tube is about an 1/8" below the UMI bar tubes and the bottom of it is about 3/4" lower than the bottom of my cross member.

This is what it looks like from the side at ride height. I "think" it's going to be all right there. I know it'll be fine on any track I race on, my only concern would be any real steep and tall speed bump I may encounter. Going on the trailer will be no issue.

[Linked Image]

Once I sleep on it and am sure I'll leave it this way, I'll pull the swing arms and rod ends, drop the lower ball joints for better access to both sides of the tabs and I'll burn everything in and give it a coat of paint. Then one more assembly and it's off to the races to see how it drives.

I'll have to put the springs back on the front shocks while it's apart and I'll take some pics of the new bump stops and shims to show then. They worked out perfect.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059411 - 10/15/18 03:37 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
Pottstown, Pa
To bad you end up being the one to do this install. Your install on what you have for a front suspension is novel, unique to your car. So trial and error happens.
Would be nice to see pics of that install done on another car, like an A, B, G, 2nd Gen F.

Have you got a response from Ron?

I can see how the UMI and new tube conflict for space. Would have liked to see the tube close to the frame, less stress on the welds, could possible become a bolt-on tube, gussets wouldn't be needed. Then modify the UMI to fit the new setup. Appearance wise it would be look better tucked up.
Are there other arms available that are arced instead of straight?

Ground clearance for me is always an issue, the crossmember being the barometer. Would have to measure my car to get that exact number, it has changed slightly with all the susp work last Winter but nothing ever touches the ground. What do you have at the link bottom?
Bob

#1059416 - 10/15/18 01:53 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
Aaron Oberle has a very similar front bar setup on his 1965 Chevelle seen here and has no issues with it being that low.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

His car has a lot more front travel and gets way lower than mine will as you can see.

The only stress the bar is going to put on the tube is up and down, there shouldn't be any front to back pull on it so I'm not really concerned about the stands or welds breaking. I actually think it looks kind of cool, way more "race car" looking seeing that huge bar hanging down. laugh

The lower rod ends on the links are way lower than I wanted, especially the driver side...but they are just a few inches inside the center of the tire so the only way they are going to hit anything is if the tire drops into a pretty significant hole. Thankfully, there aren't too many potholes out here in the desert.

The dang splines on the bar aren't cut the same so one arm hangs lower than the other even sitting on the bench. Aaron says his are the same way. Once I get it all set up at ride height and have driver weight in the seat, I'll readjust the links to try to get them both up as high as I can get them.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059417 - 10/15/18 02:31 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
Here are some better pictures of Aaron's car at Cruisin the Smokies last weekend.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


This is what we are shooting for with my car, the reason for the MMF bar... #Goals


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059423 - 10/15/18 10:55 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,011
345HP87SSAC Offline
Moderator
15+ Year
345HP87SSAC  Offline
Moderator
15+ Year

Member

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,011
Stanberry, MO
OMG Pure awesomeness here. I need a better checkbook and someone to set my Aero up. You guys make this look so fun! Cant wait to see Barney in the turns again.


[Linked Image]
Alive again after surgery at MC Racing. 369 HP 346 TQ at the wheels. 6.0 LY6 VVT and 4L85E!blackgoldaero http://www.cardomain.com/ride/671193
#1059435 - 10/16/18 12:05 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,204
SickSpeedMonte Offline
15+ Year
SickSpeedMonte  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,204
MD
Originally Posted by SSLance
The only stress the bar is going to put on the tube is up and down


As long as the end links stay vertical.

#1059437 - 10/16/18 01:02 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
I agree Bernie. I got them in as good of a place as I could and they move very well and stay pretty vertical during suspension travel. I cant replicate roll though to see how they react with one side going up and the other down...

There will be GoPro videos once its back on the road though.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059453 - 10/17/18 01:06 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
Pottstown, Pa
Doesn't the rod end attached to the bar's arm swing in an arc, be it small, from full compression to full rebound, about 6" of travel? So there would be some force forward and then rearward through the travel? This would be compound by the very high rate of the bar?
Bob

#1059455 - 10/17/18 04:33 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
The lower control arm moves about 2" from ride height to full compression measured where the rod end attaches. Where I have it it moves from a little forward to straight up to a little forward again at full bump. It most likely won't ever see anything near full extension unless it's on a jack.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059461 - 10/17/18 08:40 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
So, I snapped some pics and took some measurements before tearing it all back apart to prepare for welding today.

We'll start at full extension...

Lower link is 5" above the ground tire is just lifting up.

[Linked Image]

Link 4" off the ground

[Linked Image]

Link 3" off the ground (ride Height)

[Linked Image]

Link 2" off the ground, shocks on bumpstops but aren't fully compressed.

[Linked Image]

As you can see, the end link stays pretty close to vertical throughout travel. This is why there isn't any bind in the rod ends during travel and what I worked so hard on placement of everything for.

Also remember, there is zero pressure up or down on these links unless the car is rolling one way or the other. Full up and down travel while driving down the road with tires straight puts zero pressure on anything bar related. When the body is rolling during a turn, the idea behind the stiff bar is to keep the arms as level as possible and this mostly happens with the front suspension compressed under braking.

Here are pictures of the new bumpstops and the shims to adjust them.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

It took two snap in shims to get the inner fenders off the tops of the tires at full compression. What was interesting was I had to set the car's weight on the tires to fully compress the bumpstops, just lifting on the bottom of the control arms would set the shocks on the bump stops but not compress them.

The car is stripped and ready to weld...hopefully that happens tomorrow.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059462 - 10/17/18 09:13 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 682
MC96 Offline
Member
MC96  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 682
St. Johns MI
We call that a "roller skate wheel" bump stop, as opposed to the "Christmas tree" style which is foam and wears out. Not sure if Allstar was the first around with the snap on shaft spacers but they have some really nice tote box style kits available.

You can slice the bump stops with a razor to change them out on the shaft. Or better yet buy one of those shock work stations for the bench in the trailer


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1059486 - 10/18/18 11:35 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
I am NOT a good welder...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059489 - 10/19/18 02:45 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,158
Pottstown, Pa
When I was employed building utility track the boss would try to hurry me a long, "we ain't building rocket ships here, you can teach a monkey to MIG weld".
Get-er-done.
Bob

#1059490 - 10/19/18 05:04 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
Its welded..and painted... Reassembly soon...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059533 - 10/22/18 03:40 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,761
Peoria, AZ
Man...I'm one tool and about 3 minutes away from making this thing drive able again. Hope it gets here today...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
Page 66 of 69 1 2 64 65 66 67 68 69

Random Images
500/thumbs/Mc_signature.JPG
by tunit
500/thumbs/jggh.JPG
by juangomez22
500/thumbs/License_bracket_1_resize.jpg
by IowanSS
1188/thumbs/2_-_Copy.jpg
by mclellan83
618/thumbs/1racecar.jpg
by Wisconsin
Help MonteCarloSS.com


Recent Contributors
Rob Forbes
techjay
Authorized Vendors
Tell them you saw it
on MonteCarloSS.com!


CustomMonteSSParts.com
Dixie Monte Carlo Depot
GSI Interiors
HRpartsNstuff
Mikes Montes
Savitske Classic & Custom
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0