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#1059004 - 09/08/18 02:25 AM Borgeson 800 series steering box  
Joined: Jun 2006
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thepezking639 Offline
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thepezking639  Offline
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Livonia, MI
Has anyone tried this box?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-800130/overview/

I replaced my factory box which was blown out and leaking with a 3rd gen GTA box, but the steering still feels exceptionally overboosted and has no on center feel to the point where it causes issues in slaloms and turn in.

I've seen great reviews for the Lee and Sweet Boxes along with the Delphi 670 box, but I dont plan on spending near as makes no difference $1000 on the either the Lee or Sweet boxes, and Lares never has the 670 in stock....

I am running a 2004 Yukon Denali PS pump as part of the LS swap, could that be putting out too much pressure? I also run -1 degree camber and 8 degrees caster with 1/8 toe in, could this be the issue?

I will have to get an alignment with the lowering spindles, and taller ball joint's I'm installing with part of this brake kit so input on that as well as the borgeson box would be appreciated.


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, Built 200-4R, B&M Megashifter, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build thread: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/126188-SSLOW6-0-Build
#1059015 - 09/09/18 10:14 PM Re: Borgeson 800 series steering box [Re: thepezking639]  
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FinallySS Offline
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FinallySS  Offline
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Nice Sunny Hawaii
Gonna ask the obvious question, but did you try adjusting the box? You'll be surprise just how much feel you get back when adjusted correctly. Here's the link to it. Just make sure you do the adjusting off the car. I did tried both method, but I needed to rebuild my steering gear, so after the rebuild, I did the adjustment outside of the car and it DID make the difference. A whole lot.

http://www.monte-list.com/tech/boxmesh.shtml


1986 Silver MCSS - Poly bushing and Hotchkis spring w/Bilstein, Posi w/3.73, MSD 6-AL, E-Brock 600cfm, Aluminum 2-row radiator.
1986 Black MCSS - R.I.P............Finally.
#1059027 - 09/10/18 05:55 PM Re: Borgeson 800 series steering box [Re: thepezking639]  
Joined: Apr 2011
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Hunter79764 Offline
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Hunter79764  Offline
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Grand Prairie, Tx
An 04 Denali probably has about the strongest PS pump available, since it's 4wd and Hydroboost brakes on a luxury model. I confirmed that the 04 and up is a different part number from the older units, which had different numbers for 2WD and 4WD. I don't know if there is a pressure restrictor you could use to under-boost it a little? But again, adjusting the factory box is probably a place to start before buying a new one.


Sometimes you just need a bigger hammer...

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1059028 - 09/10/18 06:33 PM Re: Borgeson 800 series steering box [Re: Hunter79764]  
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thepezking639 Offline
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thepezking639  Offline
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Livonia, MI
Originally Posted by Hunter79764
An 04 Denali probably has about the strongest PS pump available, since it's 4wd and Hydroboost brakes on a luxury model. I confirmed that the 04 and up is a different part number from the older units, which had different numbers for 2WD and 4WD. I don't know if there is a pressure restrictor you could use to under-boost it a little? But again, adjusting the factory box is probably a place to start before buying a new one.


I mean it feels no different than when I had a stock pump in there on my small block. I'm not sure that line pressure is the cause.

Last edited by thepezking639; 09/10/18 06:33 PM.

86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, Built 200-4R, B&M Megashifter, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build thread: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/126188-SSLOW6-0-Build
#1059051 - 09/12/18 01:58 PM Re: Borgeson 800 series steering box [Re: thepezking639]  
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MC96 Offline
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St. Johns MI
I was bouncing some stuff around with a friend of mine who just quit working at Hendrick this past weekend. We've both raced street stocks and are spittballing ideas for some new ones.

Ive only ever used stock boxes and quickeners, he used aftermarket sweet boxes but per his sanction rules (WISSOTA) it cant be faster than 12:1, with no quickener. He told me the jump from a stock box to an aftermarket is unbelievable. Ive heard the same things from guys who have jumped from even an aftermarket 800 series to a sweet or turn one 600 series (identifiable with the bolt on servo).

Something else we talked about that was relevant, they arent allowed adjustable parts in Cup with the exception of testing. They used an adjustable output valve from turn one on the pump and it didnt seem to make much difference throughout the entire range. Differences made to the boxes are where the changes count.

https://www.turnone-steering.com/products/vari-flow-adjustable-flow-valve
So I would agree that your pump isnt the issue.

We also talked about how everyone wants "Z28 boxes" when the F41 box is the same ratio but has the stops opened up, but even at that you would be ignoring the Impala SS boxes, which I think are really the pinnacle of gm stock boxes.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1059052 - 09/12/18 02:04 PM Re: Borgeson 800 series steering box [Re: MC96]  
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thepezking639 Offline
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thepezking639  Offline
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Livonia, MI
Originally Posted by MC96
I was bouncing some stuff around with a friend of mine who just quit working at Hendrick this past weekend. We've both raced street stocks and are spittballing ideas for some new ones.

Ive only ever used stock boxes and quickeners, he used aftermarket sweet boxes but per his sanction rules (WISSOTA) it cant be faster than 12:1, with no quickener. He told me the jump from a stock box to an aftermarket is unbelievable. Ive heard the same things from guys who have jumped from even an aftermarket 800 series to a sweet or turn one 600 series (identifiable with the bolt on servo).

Something else we talked about that was relevant, they arent allowed adjustable parts in Cup with the exception of testing. They used an adjustable output valve from turn one on the pump and it didnt seem to make much difference throughout the entire range. Differences made to the boxes are where the changes count.

https://www.turnone-steering.com/products/vari-flow-adjustable-flow-valve
So I would agree that your pump isnt the issue.

We also talked about how everyone wants "Z28 boxes" when the F41 box is the same ratio but has the stops opened up, but even at that you would be ignoring the Impala SS boxes, which I think are really the pinnacle of gm stock boxes.


What makes you say the Impala is the pinnacle?


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, Built 200-4R, B&M Megashifter, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build thread: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/126188-SSLOW6-0-Build
#1059054 - 09/12/18 03:15 PM Re: Borgeson 800 series steering box [Re: thepezking639]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 663
MC96 Offline
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MC96  Offline
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St. Johns MI
Trying to find my source on that info, but it something to do with the valving, ratio was as fast as a MCSS stops may have been wider yet. The Imps were heavy with wide tires and wide turning radius' so they wanted to quicken them up


I think the chances of finding a good used one these days are slim to none, and the parts stores are known to built one GM box to fit all sometimes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Chevy-Impala-SS-Quick-Ratio-Steering-Gear-Box-94-95-96/223134665090?hash=item33f3dcc982:g:Lz4AAOSw9OFZJF4N

At this price with free shipping Id take a chance on this.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1059055 - 09/12/18 03:37 PM Re: Borgeson 800 series steering box [Re: thepezking639]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 663
MC96 Offline
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MC96  Offline
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St. Johns MI
I shouldve added the decreased effort would be nice for fatter tires with more caster.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1059064 - 09/12/18 11:37 PM Re: Borgeson 800 series steering box [Re: thepezking639]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,064
mmc427ss Offline
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mmc427ss  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,064
Pottstown, Pa
The XH box from the 3rd Gen F-body came on cars that had the 245/50x16 fat tires on a zero offset wheels, GTA and IROC, not Z28. This is why the internal stops inside that box limit the tires from rubbing the frame in the rear or sway bar in the front. Also the turning effort was slightly higher than all other boxes due to the increase in T-bar thickness. Here's one of the best lists for 800 boxes I've found.
https://www.chevelles.com/techref/shea_3.html

Running the XH box with a 255/50x16 at 9 1/2 caster and 1/8" toe out the feel and effort is very good. Wouldn't want to go to a box with less effort. Currently at 70 mph running down the highway tracking is very good with two fingers on the wheel.

Have never seen any reliable specs on the Impala SS box, would assume it's a 12.7 variable rate box. It's been 22 years since i drove an Imp SS, just remember it felt, drove, like a smaller car. The steering box in my Astro AWD is a 12.7 on hydraboost.

After rebuilding the XH box several years ago I started the acquiring of parts to install an inline pressure gauge so see what the pump is putting out. Got half way through the gauge install and got sidetracked. Sourcing the tee needed to install the gauge was the stumbling point. Need to revisit that again just for S&G to see what pressure is really there. Thinking in the area of 1250 now after changing the P/S pump flow/pressure 20 years ago.

Bob


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