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#1058945 - 09/04/18 07:51 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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This was my last session on Sunday. We ran the course in reverse with one small change...

https://youtu.be/56_1FLNDzVY

I was leery of my tire wear and the car didn't quite feel right so I quit pretty early in the session after a few good clean hot laps. After the car sat in paddock for a while, I noticed the left rear going flat. Good thing I quit early and this finished my day.

Still haven't investigated what it picked up and don't really care...as all tires are shot now.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058946 - 09/04/18 07:57 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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I cheated first time through and fast forwarded to 6:10!


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85 - ZZ383, 6-speed
#1058947 - 09/04/18 08:15 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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lol... laugh Did you like my recovery?


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058961 - 09/05/18 03:34 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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What a blast that must be, open track, some good company and a car that comes home in one piece. The elevation changes aren't extreme but interesting enough to make the car work harder. A couple corners seems to be difficult, off camber maybe and it's easy to carry to much entry speed.

Car and engine works very well, sound good. When cranking out in 4th what's the rpm and mph you saw?

Something overlooked is running hard like that takes it's toll on the body, Lance is still young yet and probable that doesn't wear on him. About 5 laps would be my limit.

Sat going to drive one of those dirt car experiences, the Kenny Wallace thing, I'll sleep all the way home after that short ride.
Bob

#1058963 - 09/05/18 04:08 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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It was more fun than should be allowed by law... Every time I do one of these weekends I ask myself why I don't do these more often. Especially when they go well... The blind hills and corners were awesome!! Thankfully I had a good friend there that is also an instructor and a great driver himself to ride with me on my first 3 sessions on Sat and he really taught me how to get around the track. The corner I had my off on I messed up a few times by braking too late (as cresting the hill instead of before) and it unloaded the rear tires causing them to lock up. I also had trouble finding 3rd gear several times...this has kind of been a reoccurring theme last couple of track days. Not sure if it's just me or the shift rail starting to get a bit wonky...

Dash showed a high RPM around 5900 RPM and a high speed of around 118 mph there. What was more fun was the 100 mph solostorm showed going up the hill after the straight on Saturday's course...THAT was a blast once Dale convinced me it would stick, no brakes were needed and to hammer the gas up there...

And yeah, it's work doing this... I put over 125 miles on my car on track, at speed in a day and a half during (7) 20 minutes sessions. It was also hot, and at a higher elevation...I drank a ton of water though and made sure to continue to munch healthy food all day both days as well.

Not sure about the 1 piece part...still haven't inspected the car. My trunk release fell off and was hanging by the cable, a bolt fell out of my shift handle rendering it useless in neutral while on track during my first session, and my tires are shot...one is even flat... I do know this though, I got hardly anything out of the catch can after running all day on Saturday.

Have fun at the dirt track deal Bob...would love to do that some day myself...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058966 - 09/05/18 03:39 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Lance, your garage sucks. Frank and I will come to your house in January and offer you some suggestions on how to make it more user-friendly and a bit more ascetically pleasing. It's what we do. lol


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#1058968 - 09/05/18 04:01 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Perfect!! I'd really appreciate the input... smile


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058971 - 09/06/18 01:08 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Originally Posted by SSLance
Perfect!! I'd really appreciate the input... smile


Happy to help


84 - Stock
85 - ZZ383, 6-speed
#1058987 - 09/07/18 05:15 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Lance tell them to pack a tire machine and balancer in their suitcases when they come out for Barrett Jackson. Kevin can pick the color.
Bob

#1058994 - 09/07/18 04:09 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Business is about to pick up once again here in the shop.

The car has been cleaned up, new skins for the Forgelines will be here early next week and then there is this...

[Linked Image]


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058999 - 09/08/18 12:27 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Does he now sell kinda a bolt in kit? Back seat is already gone.
Bob

#1059011 - 09/08/18 09:43 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Sometimes when you make an upgrade to a car, you make other weaknesses appear and become prevalent. Such was the case after we added the ATS spindles and new brakes to Barney. The increased Ackerman and better camber gain created a bunch more front grip which made the front of the car roll way more in turns. This increased roll released the inside rear tire more than before causing both a loose in condition because the brakes would lock up and slide the inside rear tire as well as a free post apex condition. This became ever so apparent when we reviewed the pictures from the Good Guys event last March.

[Linked Image]

The grip was great and the car was fast...but if we could tame the roll down and get the inside rear tire back into the track again, it will be even better. So a plan for a new front sway bar was put into place. Since I already had a few steps stiffer than the stiffest bolt in sway bar available for a G-Body, we decided to step up to a weld in tube style mount for a 3 piece splined end front bar. This will give us a ton of more options for front bar specs...

[Linked Image]

Now that the parts are here, I can take things apart and see just how and where it is all going to fit. I know the UMI front triangulation brace will either need to be cut up or replaced with something custom made as well as it is directly in the way of where this tube needs to go. I love that part...it is awesome!! I kind of hate to cut it up but that may be the best option rather than just starting from scratch.

The tube, bar, and swing arms will all hang under the frame and I'll weld double shear tabs on the front of my control arms for the end links to bolt to. It looks like these swing arms will end up 4-5 inches shorter than the ones on the the current MuscleBar which means the bar will need to be about directly under the pitman and idler arms instead of up in front of them where the current bar rides. The shorter arms help with way less leverage on the bar which means a stiffer overall rate (less roll).

I have new tires being mounted up Tuesday and have a local SCCA Autocross Next Sunday the 16th, so I'll probably wait until after the 16th to start taking things apart. The goal is to have the new bar in place and tuning done at an SCCA event before the Good Guys Fall show the 2nd weekend in November. Wish me luck!!!


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059018 - 09/10/18 01:05 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Originally Posted by SSLance
Sometimes when you make an upgrade to a car, you make other weaknesses appear and become prevalent. Such was the case after we added the ATS spindles and new brakes to Barney. The increased Ackerman and better camber gain created a bunch more front grip which made the front of the car roll way more in turns. This increased roll released the inside rear tire more than before causing both a loose in condition because the brakes would lock up and slide the inside rear tire as well as a free post apex condition. This became ever so apparent when we reviewed the pictures from the Good Guys event last March.

[Linked Image]

The grip was great and the car was fast...but if we could tame the roll down and get the inside rear tire back into the track again, it will be even better. So a plan for a new front sway bar was put into place. Since I already had a few steps stiffer than the stiffest bolt in sway bar available for a G-Body, we decided to step up to a weld in tube style mount for a 3 piece splined end front bar. This will give us a ton of more options for front bar specs...

[Linked Image]

Now that the parts are here, I can take things apart and see just how and where it is all going to fit. I know the UMI front triangulation brace will either need to be cut up or replaced with something custom made as well as it is directly in the way of where this tube needs to go. I love that part...it is awesome!! I kind of hate to cut it up but that may be the best option rather than just starting from scratch.

The tube, bar, and swing arms will all hang under the frame and I'll weld double shear tabs on the front of my control arms for the end links to bolt to. It looks like these swing arms will end up 4-5 inches shorter than the ones on the the current MuscleBar which means the bar will need to be about directly under the pitman and idler arms instead of up in front of them where the current bar rides. The shorter arms help with way less leverage on the bar which means a stiffer overall rate (less roll).

I have new tires being mounted up Tuesday and have a local SCCA Autocross Next Sunday the 16th, so I'll probably wait until after the 16th to start taking things apart. The goal is to have the new bar in place and tuning done at an SCCA event before the Good Guys Fall show the 2nd weekend in November. Wish me luck!!!





Lance, you will definitely have your solution to lifting the inside tire done first, but I just pulled the trigger on this today:
[Linked Image]

S197 Mustang 8.8 rear. Came with all of the links and hardware. It will take some work to get it in there, the tubes have to be shortened 3 inches aside, custom axles, rotors, etc. but it will be interesting to see how two different solutions to lifting the inside tire compare.


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, Built 200-4R, B&M Megashifter, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build thread: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/126188-SSLOW6-0-Build
#1059044 - 09/12/18 12:38 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Added my Solostorm data overlay to my fast lap from Saturday's session.

https://youtu.be/dx9w72wPx2M

And here was Sunday's lap running counter clockwise.

https://youtu.be/f9Vxt0mBiqU


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059045 - 09/12/18 01:55 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Looking good out there Lance.

Every time I see the car step out of line, it seems like it can be blamed on the triangulated 4 link. Or maybe your foot, but I’m willing to offer the benefit of the doubt to the 40 year old chassis design it seems that corner exit is where you are losing time. That being said..

Corner entry looks great, you’ve got the line and the car is gripping. Your steering input looks good, but you’re busy. What box are you using? Have you considered one of the sweet 10:1 boxes?

Also despite being “a boring truck motor”, the audio is great. It would be nice to see an RPM overlay, I think you could stand for more gear with the T56.


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, Built 200-4R, B&M Megashifter, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build thread: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/126188-SSLOW6-0-Build
#1059047 - 09/12/18 02:25 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Thanks Travis...

I think the majority of my loose condition can be attributed to 2 things, the outside front is dipping so far because of the front grip and the rebound in the rear shocks is picking the inside rear up. This causes the inside rear to start sliding if on the brakes creating an instant loose in condition.

That said. I'd much rather have that than the constant push the Charger im following had. I HATE driving a car that wont turn..

Ron sure things stiffening the front roll stiffness up will cure all ills... we'll see soon enough.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059104 - 09/17/18 04:14 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Raced with AZSOLO SCCA yesterday. Put brand new tires on a couple days before so it took a run or two to get the mold release off them...then it stuck pretty darn good. Didn't hear any fender\tire contact anywhere even with a 270# passenger in the right seat on my last and fastest run so the work with the Fender roller might have been enough to fix the issue at autocross speeds.

Here was the fastest run of the day.

https://youtu.be/-7gD0qIUUBI

Got about a month before the next local SCCA race and have the opportunities to do some road course stuff soon as well...but thinking about pulling the shocks to do some work on them and working on the sway bar install instead. Would love to have the sway bar installed and tested BEFORE Good Guys in early November.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059106 - 09/17/18 06:18 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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How big was the shoehorn to get the passenger out of the race seat? Asking for a friend....

Always enjoy the videos, thanks for sharing.


88 SS Black/Oxblood. Power Tour car
80 Malibu 2dr. Drag Week car
#1059108 - 09/17/18 09:28 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Lol... he had to get back out of the car to put his helmet on, couldn't get it over his head while in the seat... laugh


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059183 - 09/22/18 10:26 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Sometimes you have to go back a few steps before you can move forward...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The shocks needed to go back to Ridetech for some updates and I had to pull the fronts anyway so I could cycle the suspension to check for bind on the new sway bar end links, so I decided now was a good time to kill two birds at once. Also pulled the MuscleBar and UMI Triangulation brace to get it out of the way for now.

Here is a good shot showing the difference between the MuscleBar and the new MMF front bar that will replace it. The main glaring difference is the swing arms that are about 4-5" shorter on the new bar. This greatly reduces the lever pulling on the bar which helps increase the overall roll stiffness.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

At the moment my welder can't reach my car so zip ties are holding everything in place. It's close to where it needs to be but will get tweaked once I can hold things exactly in place better. This is at pretty close to ride height.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

And bad news for those lusting for leftover parts...it appears the UMI Triangulation brace will still work which I'm VERY happy about.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I need to pick up some hardware, get some smaller welding wire and some electrical material to make an extension cord.....then I'll be ready to start tacking things in place. Pretty sure the sway bar stands will land right on the frame under where the factory sway bar bushings mounted. The frame is large and beefy there and welding it up shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Plan is to start with the swing arms pointed down to the control arms about an inch at ride height with the endlinks straight up and down then cycle everything to check for interference or bind.

I have to add as well...I'm very much enjoying having a put together shop once again to work in. I'm getting more and more used to working on the drive on lift...it hasn't fought me at all on this project yet and in fact has made some things just a bit easier than it would be on a two post lift.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059187 - 09/23/18 05:59 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Here I was lusting....


[Linked Image]
Alive again after surgery at MC Racing. 369 HP 346 TQ at the wheels. 6.0 LY6 VVT and 4L85E!blackgoldaero http://www.cardomain.com/ride/671193
#1059282 - 10/03/18 04:35 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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So the sway bar end link tabs are now secured to the lower control arms.

Remember...I am NOT an accomplished welder...

I spent way more time making sure that these welds were strong than making them look pretty. laugh Hindsight, I should have busted the lower ball joints loose and dropped the arms down for the final welding, this would have made getting into the tight spots a WHOLE lot easier.

These are the tabs that came with the sway bar kit.

[Linked Image]

As you can see they are designed to weld onto a round tube. My Ridetech True Turn arms are square out toward the ends where the tabs needed to go and I also wanted to get the tabs as high as I could to keep the endlinks from being lower than the dropped shock mounts.

So I picked up some pre-fab tabs from a local shop that were not only meant to weld onto a flat piece but also just a bit longer to give me a bit more room to work. I notched the tabs to put them higher on the arm as well as move the inside tab back to help with overall alignment. This placement lets the rod ends on the end links travel without bind full bump to full extension.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I cut a plate for the back side of the tabs that were above the lower control arm and welded it to the tabs as well as the arms for additional support.

[Linked Image]

I'm fully confident these are plenty strong to support and effort the wway bar puts on them.

While I have the lower arms exposed, I decided to try to fix up the steering stop. The arms have a stop designed to work with the stock G-Body spindles but the ATS spindle misses it.

[Linked Image]

This picture is pretty close to where I need the spindle to stop.

[Linked Image]

All of the extra Ackerman that came with these spindles puts the back of the inside front tire into the frame pretty significantly at about 27 degrees steering angle. It isn't noticeable under most circumstances but did come into play pretty harshly at the Good Guys autocross event.

I was hoping to be able to just modify the stop already there but it looks like my only option is to just weld a new stop onto the arm closer to the ball joint and further in on the arm. That is today's project.

Then I'll move forward with attaching the tube to the frame and final placement of the rest of the sway bar. The shocks are away getting tweaked so I'm not really in a hurry. They should be back sometime next week and I'll be ready for them by then I hope.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059284 - 10/03/18 05:07 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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It looks like there isn't enough height in the steering stops to do the bolt trick. On the stock LCA stops you can drill and tap a hole in them, a bolt and nut is then used to be the stop adjustment.

With the very high rate on the new bar you'll find out soon enough how good a welder you are.
Bob

#1059285 - 10/03/18 06:42 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Only reason I haven't started on this yet is I'm trying to decide if I want the stop to hit on the head of the bolt that holds my steering arm onto the spindle or not?

There is not much room on either side of the cap head for it to hit and I need to cycle the suspension with it turned all the way to see how much the target moves.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1059294 - 10/04/18 01:49 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Originally Posted by SSLance
Only reason I haven't started on this yet is I'm trying to decide if I want the stop to hit on the head of the bolt that holds my steering arm onto the spindle or not?

There is not much room on either side of the cap head for it to hit and I need to cycle the suspension with it turned all the way to see how much the target moves.


Another option would be to run an FE2 Camaro box with the shorter internal stops.


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, Built 200-4R, B&M Megashifter, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build thread: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/126188-SSLOW6-0-Build
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