MonteCarloSS.com
MonteCarloSS.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
#1058533 - 08/07/18 02:21 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: PB86SS/87LS]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
Originally Posted by PB86SS/87LS
Welcome aboard and nice SS to start with, plus nice plans for it.

It’s a moot point but in the stock setup’s defense, it should get much better than 13mpg and also still torque around town decently enough to be competitive with granny in her Accord. One of my pet peeves on recent publications/builds of our cars is being lazy and ripping on the stock performance (it was the 80’s, all cars were slow by today’s standards).


Thanks for the support. smile As to the performance, you're absolutely right. An '87 MCSS would put down a quarter-mile time of ~16 seconds. For the 80's, yeah, it was ok. Not spectacular, but ok...

I'm looking to make this my daily driver, a slick cruiser that merges old-school looks with modern performance. If I was really bucks-up, I'd bolt in a 8L90 trans with a Ford 9", trac-loc pumpkin and some 2.50 rear gears... It'd pull hard off the line, and yet turn 1500RPM at 70MPH... But that's for another day, I guess. mwink

I've built a lot of cars over the years, basically always pushing for more power. So this approach- just building something for my enjoyment while still being practical- is quite different. There are some other aspects as well, that I will have to address- the R134A refrigerant simply doesn't hack it in the old MCSS system, for example... another is that at idle, with the AC running, voltage sags down below what I consider acceptable levels... Cup holders, and bunch of other silly stuff that we take for granted in newer cars that is noticeably absent... LOL

There nothing like burning my hand with a hot coffee driving to work just this morning, because I don't have a place to safely put it down while driving... no

Last edited by Breathial; 08/10/18 11:20 PM.
#1058536 - 08/07/18 05:36 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
Pottstown, Pa
Here's one way to get around the coffee problem.
https://www.dixierestorationdepot.com/Product/Detail.aspx?s=DM00752%20%20%20BLACK&d=175&p=2

When it's time for A/C mods you need to trash the stock serpentine condenser and go to a parallel flow one if you go to 134. Spectra now sells only parallel flow condensers. This is the stock replacement, inlet/outlet same as stock.
https://ecat.spectrapremium.com/products/7-3232

You can use a Buick or GP condenser which has the inlet/outlet on the other side.
https://ecat.spectrapremium.com/products/7-4013

I'm still running a totally stock A/C system with R12, 39 degrees at the dash vents. Once changed it over to 134 but changed it back to 12 when the new engine went in.

Harry's U-pull above Pennsburg is a good place for later model picks.
http://www.wegotused.com/
Bob

#1058686 - 08/20/18 12:24 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
So I went through three more core engines, to find a nice one to build... for $500. Short block from a van that caught on fire. The others, when I pulled them apart, all had suffered loss of oil pressure and subsequent bearing failures, which in turn destroyed the crank and spun the bearings in the block, wiping out rods and main saddles.

Takeaway? DON'T buy an engine that started to knock. By the time you hear it, it's already "game over."

Tomorrow I'll drop it off to the machine shop to be hot tanked and honed.

#1058689 - 08/20/18 03:56 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,010
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,010
Peoria, AZ
Another takeaway I get from this... LS engines have oiling issues...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058693 - 08/20/18 07:32 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,702
Travis Jones Offline
10+ Year
Travis Jones  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,702
Ferndale, MI
Originally Posted by SSLance
Another takeaway I get from this... LS engines have oiling issues...


Or LQ4's get abused because they are primarily in 3/4ton work trucks / vans. SBC's in various incarnations have had lots of production issues, cracking heads, intake gasket failures taking them out, etc.

Not to mention any motor will die if you run it out of oil.

Yesterday I watched my wife's LS3 powered 1LE camaro run around a road course screaming at 6000 rpm all day and the day before I was shifting my 120k mile junkyard 6.0 at 6500rpm. Neither of them flinched.

They don't have oiling issues. You're (admittedly) being biased

I also seem to remember you opening your 383 up a year or two ago and finding bearings that you weren't OK reassembling. how old was that motor? how many miles?

If I'm honest Lance, I think you put too much credence into a dyno test conducted under perfect conditions and use that to judge other's setups.

Around a road course your car would be miles faster with a built up LS3, you know it and you're trying to convince yourself not to take the plunge

That's my takeaway from your comment.


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, FABbot AR5 5-speed, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build blog on Summit Racing's OnAll Cylinders https://www.onallcylinders.com/author/travis-jones/
#1058698 - 08/21/18 01:24 AM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
Pottstown, Pa
Arguing the plus and minus of any engine can go on forever, they all have had some issue or another. You can't dispute that pulling a used truck LS from the junkyard today is much easier than finding ANY 1st Gen SBC worth rebuilding to make the same power. LS upgrade parts are now readily available and cheaper than just 5 years ago. Crate LS engines are all over the place and in any size and color you want. Gen 1 SBC are also available in any size, hp, color, just need a checkbook.

Their is no doubt it's easier to make hp with the LS, that's why GM spent a billion dollars on it's development. It i had the bucks and was buying an engine the first engine I'd look at today is the LT5. Back when I built the Dart 427 SBC the LS7 was available in a crate, same money in the end as the Dart engine, just a huge chunk of change dealt one time, the Dart could be pieced together a little at a time. Regret it, not really, I'm old and old school is what i still do.

As far as dyno numbers go, it like apples and oranges, they are both kinda round, but. Hard to compare number from one source to another. 500hp/500lbft at 6000 is the same whether 6L or 2L. My take is how much weight you need to drag around can means more than how many horses are pulling. But we all know more hp is better, and cheap hp like a junkyard LS is what the norm is today.
Bob

#1058708 - 08/21/18 01:33 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
I won't go so far as to say the LS engines have oiling issues... There's no way to account for all the variables that may have contributed to the failures I saw.

As to raw HP, there's always more to be had, it's always a question of money. In my case, the goal remains. Build a powerful daily driver that still gets reasonably good fuel economy, for the lowest price possible. I'm not interested in racing, so maximum power numbers are irrelevant.

It's now at the machine shop and they promised to call me next week with their findings. Hopefully I'll be able to reuse the pistons, get away with a light hone. 😎

Last edited by Breathial; 08/21/18 01:37 PM.
#1058740 - 08/23/18 06:13 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
As a side note, I'd been digging much deeper into the question of the intake manifold designs.

I know other threads have discussed this exact subject at painful length... deadhorse

Underlying Question: What is THE budget intake to have, which delivers exceptional performance, can be had on an anorexic budget, and still offers both good looks AND compact packaging? Or, to have exceptional performance, is the truck or Trailblazer SS intake (tall and ugly) the way to go? And at what point does it make sense to switch from one choice to another?

An excellent write-up by Hot Rod magazine is HERE. A variety of aftermarket (and factory LSX cathedral-port intakes) are compared against the LS1, as a baseline. The cheapest I've found is $325 on EBay, complete with fuel rails and injectors.

I noticed the article didn't do a full breakout of the results in a spreadsheet, so I'll plug the numbers here, hopefully they'll line up reasonably well...

...........................................HP at......................................
INTAKE.......3000......4000.....5000.....6000.....7000
LS1...............210.........335......445.......515.......530
LS6...............210.........347......465.......535.......560
Truck............210.........342......460........530.......545
TBSS...........215..........360......470.......550.......560

As a daily driver application, my engine shouldn't see the high side of 5500 RPM except once in a blue moon...and I'd say 95% of my driving will be under 3000 RPM, so this is where I'm concentrating.

The LS6 starts to climb past the LS1 around 3800 RPM, and at 5500 RPM makes about 20HP (give or take) more. The cheapest I found on EBay is $250 for one with fuel rails and injectors. I don't honestly understand why the LS6 intake is cheaper than the LS1, but an advantage of $75 less combined with a 20HP bump, seems like a no-brainer.

The Trailblazer SS intake does see some gains across the entire board, compared to the LS1 intake. They can be had for $250 on EBay, but require conversion for 4-bolt TB to a 3-bolt setup, if I don't want to have drive-by-wire (and I most definitely do NOT). The conversion costs compared to the marginal gain of the LS6 seem to make this a viable choice only when every last HP is to be extracted. So for me, it's not really worth it, especially since I want to make the install as clean and low-profile as possible (aesthetics, for lack of a better term).

I didn't bother logging any of the 15 or so aftermarket intake manifolds, as they all seemed to bounce somewhere between the LS6 and TBSS intakes in power generated, and all of them cost significantly more than a good used factory intake. It now makes perfect sense why the authors did NOT put the above analysis together with the intake manifolds, as it would become immediately clear that the wares being offered the HRM sponsors simply aren't as good as a used factory offering... pointlaugh

It'll have the LS6 on top. smokin

Last edited by Breathial; 08/23/18 06:18 PM.
#1058742 - 08/23/18 07:07 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,702
Travis Jones Offline
10+ Year
Travis Jones  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,702
Ferndale, MI
Originally Posted by Breathial
As a side note, I'd been digging much deeper into the question of the intake manifold designs.

I know other threads have discussed this exact subject at painful length... deadhorse

Underlying Question: What is THE budget intake to have, which delivers exceptional performance, can be had on an anorexic budget, and still offers both good looks AND compact packaging? Or, to have exceptional performance, is the truck or Trailblazer SS intake (tall and ugly) the way to go? And at what point does it make sense to switch from one choice to another?

An excellent write-up by Hot Rod magazine is HERE. A variety of aftermarket (and factory LSX cathedral-port intakes) are compared against the LS1, as a baseline. The cheapest I've found is $325 on EBay, complete with fuel rails and injectors.

I noticed the article didn't do a full breakout of the results in a spreadsheet, so I'll plug the numbers here, hopefully they'll line up reasonably well...

...........................................HP at......................................
INTAKE.......3000......4000.....5000.....6000.....7000
LS1...............210.........335......445.......515.......530
LS6...............210.........347......465.......535.......560
Truck............210.........342......460........530.......545
TBSS...........215..........360......470.......550.......560

As a daily driver application, my engine shouldn't see the high side of 5500 RPM except once in a blue moon...and I'd say 95% of my driving will be under 3000 RPM, so this is where I'm concentrating.

The LS6 starts to climb past the LS1 around 3800 RPM, and at 5500 RPM makes about 20HP (give or take) more. The cheapest I found on EBay is $250 for one with fuel rails and injectors. I don't honestly understand why the LS6 intake is cheaper than the LS1, but an advantage of $75 less combined with a 20HP bump, seems like a no-brainer.

The Trailblazer SS intake does see some gains across the entire board, compared to the LS1 intake. They can be had for $250 on EBay, but require conversion for 4-bolt TB to a 3-bolt setup, if I don't want to have drive-by-wire (and I most definitely do NOT). The conversion costs compared to the marginal gain of the LS6 seem to make this a viable choice only when every last HP is to be extracted. So for me, it's not really worth it, especially since I want to make the install as clean and low-profile as possible (aesthetics, for lack of a better term).

I didn't bother logging any of the 15 or so aftermarket intake manifolds, as they all seemed to bounce somewhere between the LS6 and TBSS intakes in power generated, and all of them cost significantly more than a good used factory intake. It now makes perfect sense why the authors did NOT put the above analysis together with the intake manifolds, as it would become immediately clear that the wares being offered the HRM sponsors simply aren't as good as a used factory offering... pointlaugh

It'll have the LS6 on top. smokin
\

So, a TBSS intake is also any Post 2010 intake on a 5.3/4.8 also called NBS intakes, there are many advantages to running one of these vs the LS6.

First, you should be able to go into any modern wrecking yard and find one for not much money. I paid $140 for mine on craigslist fully loaded with injectors, fuel rail and TB.

I bought a 92mm throttle body for a whopping $82 on Ebay or you can get a 3 to 4 bolt TB conversion plate and run a 3 bolt TB

The nice thing about the TBSS intake is that it is setup to run a returnless fuel system, so you use a $38 corvette filter regulator, 1 line (i reused the stock 3/8 feed line) and some rubber fuel injection hose and a couple conversion fittings.

Another issue you may run into with an LS6 intake is a lack of an area to mount the TV cable ( you can spend the money for the overpriced Bowtie Overdrives kit though)

The main advantage of the TBSS/NBS intake is the increased torque production down low due to the long runners, somehow this intake manifold manages to have long runners, but still make great power up top.

Also if you use the car intake, you're stuck using car front accessories, which are significantly more expensive and require more work to adapt into a G-body than the truck accessories do. (by the time you've bought a car harmonic balancer you're already to the cost of a 92mm 4 bolt TB FYI)

I'm just worried you're trying to save a few pennies now which will end up costing you a lot more later... spend the money on good parts, that are known to work well together and do it right once.

For example, my bone stock 6.0l with a middle of the road cam a TBSS intake, 92mm TB and long tubes made 412 at the tire. I know that you say you aren't trying to build much more than a daily driver, and that's fine, but you're turning your back on some of the cheapest horsepower that you can get, that also will not hurt your economy.

but hey if its an aesthetics thing, and you don't mind spending more money to be slower that's fine too. Just want you to make an informed decision...


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, FABbot AR5 5-speed, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build blog on Summit Racing's OnAll Cylinders https://www.onallcylinders.com/author/travis-jones/
#1058783 - 08/26/18 12:39 AM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
Costs to date
engine $800
LS-9 Camshaft (EBay) $118.22
LS-7 Roller lifters plus 4 guides (EBay) $108.99
Blue GM Beehive LS springs (EBay) $65
Another short-block 6.0 LS $500.00
Valve Stem-seals (beehive style) $18.99
Valve locks $9.52


total 1620.72

#1059010 - 09/08/18 06:06 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
While waiting for the machine shop to get back to me, I've been driving around the MCSS. Strange thing kept happening, battery going dead. Finally, I replaced the battery, but decided to try and isolate whatever keeps sucking power. Found it eventually, the switch in the trunk kept closing, activating the trunk lamp. No WONDER I couldn't see it!

Next, when I first bought the car a few months ago, the radiator immediately started leaking. I bought a replacement single-core radiator from Pep Boys (this was before I decided to the LS conversion). The replacement rad simply couldn't keep the engine cool on the 100F+ hot days, so I had to choose between air conditioning or cooking the engine. NOT a good place to be. A few days ago, the new rad started to leak at the seam of the plastic tank, so I went on EBay, found a nice 3-core, TIG-welded monster, for a mere $119, https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-ROWS-26-WIDE-CORE-ALL-ALUMINUM-RADIATORCHEVY-CAMARO-MANY-GM-CARS-TRUCKS/253820102122?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[Linked Image]20180906_183517 (1) by breathial1967, on Flickr


Popped it in, now the engine runs 20F cooler, and no leaks. Also, it fit perfectly, no issues or mods necessary. It dropped right into place. smile

Highly recommended!

Last edited by Breathial; 09/13/18 10:10 PM.
#1060454 - 01/16/19 02:21 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
Ok, a quick update. I got the block back from the machine shop. Crank is good, block ok, but needs an overbore to clean up some rust pitting from when the engine was stored by the previous owner... Probably .020" inches, minimum, to make everything perfect. After snooping around, I discovered the 6.2L pistons are .065" larger in bore. So I found a set from a 2010 Camaro with 80k on the clock, bought them for $120. New rings, and voila, I'm ready to go back to the machine shop. I already have two sets of 6.0 pistons and rods, one set Gen-III, the other Gen-IV, so I'll use the latter to put together the rotating assembly. This gives me a 6.2L version of the LQ9 engine...

On another note, I'd been thinking a LOT about what to do on the computer, and how to do the EFI cheaply. Bottom line, if I go for a megasquirt with decent functionality, I'm into the computer for at least $300. IF I decide to go with a 4L80E later, the controller doubles that cost... so not nearly as cost-effective as I'd thought.

So I'm snooping around on the FaceBook marketplace, and I find a guy 60 miles away with an intake from a 2003 GMC Savana... with harness, drive-by-cable throttle body, computer and full fuse-panel, for $100. SOLD. So I'll be using a tuned factory computer, cleaning up the harness myself, etc. The LQ4/LQ9 cam I already have is in good condition, so I'll just go with that. The LS9 cam I have is still sealed in the original packaging, so I'll just sell it, try to get some money back.

Finally, for exhaust, I found a set of F-body exhaust manifolds (again off FakeBook marketplace) for $80 shipped to my door.

As you can probably tell, I've been going back and re-evaluating every decision of the build, to this point. As mentioned earlier, I have little time to dedicate to this project, what with three little ones (and the wife) demanding my attention. BUT... I'm not prepared to blow through money just to get a little convenience. Which is why I decided to just stick with the cheapie truck intake (ugly, but extremely functional), have the computer tuned, and put my time in on things where I can get projects accomplished in a few hours to a few days, such as the wiring harness.

In project management terms, I'm cutting out the scope-creep, getting back to the core goals for minimum cash outlay.

Last edited by Breathial; 01/19/19 10:27 PM.
#1061619 - 04/21/19 07:41 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
So the weather has finally broken, I can get to the garage again... in between times when the kids are requiring my attention. Update is that I can't seem to get a decent of exhaust manifolds for either an F-body or C5 vette, without the seller flaking out. Annoying. The local machine shop (Stauffers) isn't even willing to consider boring my block to 4.065", regardless. Not even willing to do a sonic check first. Fine, found another machine shop, just have to get the cash together quietly. I've discovered the factory LQ4 pistons (with Gen-IV rods) weigh in at 628 grams with the pin, the 6.2 pistons weigh 640. So I'll get the assembly balanced. Assuming nothing else comes up, I'm looking at $600 for bore & hone, balance rotating assembly, check line-bore and pop in cam bearings. Unless the line bore is *really* out of whack, I'll probably leave it alone, as the engine showed no signs of distress when I tore it down.

I've acquired a set of factory-spec 6.2L piston rings, full bearing set (less cam), timing chain set, engine gasket set, oil pump and dipstick assembly for $438 all-in. Found a guy with an F-body oil pan and pickup for $160.

And while I'm slowly gathering parts, getting ready to send the block off to the machine shop, I started looking at that God-awful Fugly LQ4 intake manifold. I'd found a second one that's DBC with a full computer and harness, so the DBW was a practice run. The pics below are of the second unit...

Before:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

So I started shaving the intake like so many have documented on youtube.

One thing I hate is the way others have had to weld in their fittings to the back of that concave shape at the trailing side of the intake. So I bought some 1/4" nylon 6/6 stock from Ebay. After making a cardboard template, I came up with an oval "cap" to put over the end. This would give me a flat surface to either weld or epoxy to, without the sloppy results I was seeing on other threads.

[Linked Image]

I punched holes in the back so that whenever I wanted to tap into vacuum, I could still do it on four separate locations. The I epoxied it in place, followed by the plastic welding of the edges, both to make it look better and more importantly, to give it additional strength and avoid potential vacuum leaks.

[Linked Image]

Next, a skim layer of filler, followed by primer:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

After a LOT of block sanding, I finally sprayed some "natural aluminum" engine paint on it.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

You might notice at the top of where the throttle body bolts on, I built up that area with more 1/4" nylon and welded it in place (after soldering the solenoid opening inside shut). I also removed the DBC cable bracket studs on top. I realized I could flatten the bracket and attach it to the top of the nylon I just welded in, to keep proper alignment... but it moves the cables down and reduces intake height by about 1 1/2", right where it's most needed. With this, I am confident it will fit under my flat hood. grin

The finish isn't perfect, but then again, I'm doing my work late at night in an occupied garage, and spray-painting in a public parking lot (life in suburbian HELL)... It's good enough where I won't be embarrassed when I pop the good. Which, for me, is good enough. lmao

#1061625 - 04/22/19 03:29 AM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
Pottstown, Pa
Good machine shops are hard to find these days. Back in the day Stauffer's was the go to place for most all rebuilding services in the Phoenixville are, had several heads R&Red there. Selling car parts was their main business, machine shop changed hands after the parts side closed, there was even a fire there a decade ago. Not sure who is in there anymore.

Over in Schwenksville is Automotive Machine Services, Doug Meyers does a lot of the local HiPo stuff these days. He's done a few engines for friends. I'ts worth the time to give him a call. The word is he is slowing down, staff is getting older and more picky about builds.

AMS in Pottstown is unfortunately now gone, they did everything there and had good equipment

Boyertown and Pottstown both have a smaller machine shops on the scale of Stauffer's now.

Meyers is where I would go now. Soon will need a flywheel dressed for the new twin, Boyertown could do it, just think I may need to do a walk in at Meyers to check it out, never been inside the doors.
Bob

#1061733 - 05/03/19 11:47 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: mmc427ss]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
Thanks, I checked into AMS. Talking to Doug for ~15 minutes, it was obvious he REALLY knows his stuff... old-school all the way, no BS. Dropped off the parts to him a week ago, a couple of more weeks and he says it'll be ready. Looking forward to having a full set of parts to finally put together... grin

Last edited by Breathial; 05/03/19 11:48 PM.
#1061736 - 05/04/19 02:49 AM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
Pottstown, Pa
Good deal. As I said never had anything done by Doug but know several who have.
It's been a long haul for you to get a shortblock together, hoping heads go on soon.

Have you ever went to a Top Dead Center gathering in Exton? Several years ago was the last one I attended and it was across 30 in the other mall. Maybe one of them shows our paths will cross.
http://tdcmotorclub.com/cruise-for-the-troops/
Bob

#1062308 - 06/10/19 07:58 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
mmc427ss Offline
15+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,465
Pottstown, Pa
Wondering how you made out at Doug Meyer. I dropped off my flywheel there on Fri, picked up today. Asked for a tour of his shop and he was very outgoing and received more than the 50 cent tour. Also managed to get some other good info from him. 47 years in business and still realizes the little guy is important. \

And as an added benefit there was a black SS sitting outside Doug's shop with a very rusty hood. It was one of his staff's car. I have the original black hood sitting in my daughter's garage for more than a decade now and was going to scrap it next week. Now I it looks like Josh will be making a trip to pick it up soon, for free.
A win win for both of us.
Bob

#1062310 - 06/10/19 08:08 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 757
AkronAero Online content
10+ Year
AkronAero  Online Content
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 757
Akron OH
Despite the move to servicing cars at the dealers by swapping out modules, there are some incredibly bright guys who often work under the radar and love more than anything to do things for knowledgeable folks who appreciate their work. Got to know who to ask... wounds like you scored big on this.
Gordon

#1062649 - 07/06/19 07:49 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
Ok, after a LONG absence, where my family and work have consumed most of my time, I'm back with an update.

First of, Doug at Automotive Machine Services did an excellent job on my block. He decked and bored it out .065", so when I used the factory LS-3 pistons and OEM-style rings, the gaps came back exactly on spec. Bearing clearances all came in at .002" consistently, so no worries there either. Here's the short block after basic assembly:

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

I used the original cam because it was in good shape, and I didn't want to spend $300-400 to get an extra few horsepower, when I'm already worried how the 200R4 trans and factory rear end will live behind a tuned LQ9 (which is basically what this is). The heads already had a valve job done to them, so all I had to do was assemble them. I did go with the LS6 blue valve springs, new retainers and keepers. I also installed an new roller-bearing trunion kit, to avoid failure of the factory rocker needle bearings.

I picked up a used LS1 Camaro oil pan and pickup for cheap. This will work on my car only because I'm using the 1" setback adapters, tying it to the factory trans location.

Finishing all that up, and setting the intake on top, it looks like this:

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

#1062650 - 07/06/19 07:59 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
While obtaining and cleaning a variety of parts, I also recognize that I'll be upgrading the suspension in the not too distant future. One of the most obvious things to do this is to put on some modern rubber. The catch is that I didn't want to go for "bling," as much as classy and functional... I found a set of 2015 Camaro rims that were primo, for a cheap price. Using a 2" set of adapters front and rear, and you can judge for yourself. New tires are 225/45-R18. They're 1/2" wider than stock, but same height.

Before:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


After:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

#1062651 - 07/06/19 08:27 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,072
345HP87SSAC Offline
Moderator
15+ Year
345HP87SSAC  Offline
Moderator
15+ Year

Member

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,072
Stanberry, MO
Those look pretty darn good.


[Linked Image]
New BTR Stage 4 cam makes 449 HP and 380 TQ TQ at the wheels. 6.0 LY6 VVT and 4L85E!blackgoldaero http://www.cardomain.com/ride/671193
#1063402 - 08/31/19 11:00 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,104
84ss355*4spd Offline
10+ Year
84ss355*4spd  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,104
Edmonton,AB,Canada
Like the intake shaving .looks cool and save some space .


84ss current restoration
86 ss gone
85 ss new
85 z28 tpi
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#1063995 - 11/03/19 03:01 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
Ok, it has been a LONG time coming, for an update. My apologies for being so slow... my wife and kids got back from Europe, visiting Grandma and extended family, in early September. Since then, it's been a mad rush getting kids into school, my day-job going insane on workload, and when I get home, taking over for "mama" until ~10 PM. Rinse and repeat. Add in getting some broken bones in my foot (during a Krav class, no less), and hobbling around for a couple of months when I keep re-breaking my toes... you get the idea.

Ok, enough of that crap. Short story, it runs, it drives, it kicks xxxx . But it was a LOT of work.

As of mid-July, I had finished assembly on the engine. The heads are the stocker 317 models, with upgraded (blue) valve springs, new retainers and keepers. I went with new roller lifters and pushrods, did a new needle-bearing trunion kit on the rockers. Pretty simple stuff, just takes time. The factory LQ4/LQ9 cam was reused, as everything I considered was too expensive to justify, when the factory cam could make at least 300HP at the rear wheels. With a basically stock 2004R trans and lightweight 3.73 posi, I really don't have the budget to go through the rest of the drivetrain.

After sealing up the long-block, I set the on top of the engine, put a couple of bolts into the headers.

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

Youl'll probably notice I picked up a Camaro oil pan and all the goodies for ~$200. I had to massage the windage tray a little to work with the longer stroke, but other than that, no issues.

Now it was time to get the stocker 305 engine pulled...

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

#1063996 - 11/03/19 03:27 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
Finding a good engine hoist for a good price, is always a challenge. Luckily, I found a 2-ton picker (Harbor-freight model) for $100, that usually goes for $250. It was still in the box, just had to drive an hour to pick it up. Overall, not too bad.

I sold the running engine, complete, for $300.

Next, with the 1" setback plates, I massaged the factory clamshells to fit. It was a real challenge to get everything to fit, with me pulling the engine three more times to get everything to work. The passenger side valve cover studs for the coil-packs interfered with the heater box, so I had to cut the bracket and stagger the coil-packs forward of the heater box, and reroute spark plug wires. I used the LQ4 flex-plate, after elongating the holes to allow the torque converter to mate up. Had to pull again because the cam retainer plate bolt on top interfered with the top of the bell-housing, preventing proper mating of the trans and block.

Once it was finally in, without exhaust hooked up, it looked like this:

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

I had bought a set of Chinesium stainless-steel street rod "LS1 adapter headers" from EBay for $100, and the passenger side header fit perfect. The driver side put the collecter into the firewall... dunce After reading on a LOT of g-body forums about this (including this one) I bought a set of exhaust manifolds from an '05 GTO, a 2000 Corvette, and a set of Hedman headers, EACH of which was claimed to "fit."

And none of them did. furious

Finally, I ordered another set of Chinesium headers, this set for LS1 S-10 conversion. The drivers' side fit, so now we're FINALLY good to go on exhaust. (But I've still got the GTO and Corvette manifolds for sale, if someone needs a set...)

While waiting on brown delivery trucks to deliver manifolds and headers that DIDN'T fit, over a month, I turned to the wiring.



Using the schematics available at LT1.com, I was able to rewire the factory computer to mate to my wiring harness. Some issues came up with colors NOT matching schematics; it turned out I had a 2002 truck wiring harness with a 2003 PMC (which will bite me in the xxxx later). A couple of pics while in progress:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Finding a good place to install the PCM, where it would be easily accessible, was a challenge. I bought a used PCM tray off EBay for $15, and used all-thread to mount it on a pedestal over the air horns.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Final pics with the 2 Chinesium headers:

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

Last edited by Breathial; 11/03/19 08:36 PM.
#1064002 - 11/03/19 08:33 PM Re: Breathials' '87 MCSS Build- Cheap Street Driver [Re: Breathial]  
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Breathial Offline
Member
Breathial  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Chester Springs, PA
Moving on, I cleaned up the coil-packs, and went through several different spark-plug wire sets, to clear the headers. Also bought a cold-air induction kit for a 5.3 Tahoe, and worked to get that fitted in cleanly.

[Linked Image]

On the right side of this pic, you might notice the relay box I included as well, to handle relays for the hot power to the engine harness, fuel pump and fans.

[Linked Image]

For fans, I used new 99-03 Ford Windstar fans, which I bought for $80. After trimming the housing and using a bit of 90-degree aluminum stock, I was able to install the fans securely, and figure out the wiring to make sure they were properly fed from the relay box.

[Linked Image]

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Random Images
500/thumbs/New_Tail_Lights.JPG
by 1NJIMID8TOR
500/thumbs/image15.jpg
by bbpipe1
500/thumbs/my_monte_carlo_-9-3-08_-bsr.jpg
by BENCHSEATRACIN
500/thumbs/249220_10151521371773662_2001097135_n.jpg
by UNOH_MONTE
500/thumbs/20273_580037997421_38008392_33904477_1176940_n.jpg
by SickSpeedMonte
Help MonteCarloSS.com


Recent Contributors
dns87ss
Authorized Vendors
Tell them you saw it
on MonteCarloSS.com!


CustomMonteSSParts.com
Dixie Monte Carlo Depot
GSI Interiors
HRpartsNstuff
Mikes Montes
Savitske Classic & Custom
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0