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#1058149 - 07/08/18 03:00 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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FrankOC Offline
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Originally Posted by SSLance
Didn’t hit my head on a ramp once either...


I’ve learned to wear a hat to cushion the blow


84 - Stock
85 - ZZ383, 6-speed
#1058150 - 07/08/18 03:03 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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Ouch! Good catch.
Some new carriers need to be washed out thoroughly to get machining chips totally removed. But i know you did that when you installed the new springs in the locker. No experience with either the locker or putting a 9" together, mostly Spicers, but it's the bearings, or gears usually.

Back in the Midwest you had a rear guy, find anyone there yet?

If it was me I'd have a 16x16x1/4 harder rubber mat under the jackstands, and not because the paint is pretty. Steel on steel, not good.

Lifting the rear at the center and installing stands at #4 can't be done?
Bob

#1058164 - 07/08/18 03:27 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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The car is sitting about 50% on the chassis jacks mid frame and 50% on jack stands, it is very steady. But yes...it can be done better for sure.

I might have some pad extensions fabbed up halfway between my short ones and long ones which will help but shorter jack stands are really what is needed.

I know a guy...that has a guy... here to rebuild the diff, I'm sure I'll be meeting him in person this week.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058230 - 07/12/18 01:53 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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That moment when you realize your pinion gear has been the only thing holding your ring gear on for how long....

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058231 - 07/12/18 02:06 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Ouch!
Thats gonna hurt.


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87 Monte SS / Black-Saddle T-Tops
85 Monte SS / Black-Gray T-Tops (Wifes Car)
SMCC Florida Chapter

#1058232 - 07/12/18 02:35 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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That answers my question about which locker springs to run.

Think the case can be salvaged?


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1058234 - 07/12/18 03:06 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: MC96]  
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Originally Posted by MC96
That answers my question about which locker springs to run.

Think the case can be salvaged?


Not sure what the locker spring has to do with the ring gear bolts not being loc-tite'd or torqued properly on install?

Also not sure what can be salvaged yet either. That ring gear has been on 4 different diffs over the years, I really hope it's okay. Need to find the source of all the metal, most likely the front pinion bearing me thinks but we'll see.

What pissed me off most is every time I pay good money for someone else to do something for me on this car, it turns to crap...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058235 - 07/12/18 03:18 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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All of these bolts came out of the carrier with our fingers...

[Linked Image]

I was so intent on inspecting the gear teeth I never even turned it over to look at the ring gear bolts...until I set it up on my friend's bench. Pretty sure my jaw hit the floor when I saw the loose bolts sticking up.

The rear bound up on me while backing into my grid spot at Good Guys in March, took three tries to get it to release. Pretty sure that is when the first bolt fell out and egged out the one hole on the carrier. I made 4 more runs that day then about 3 weeks later made 4 runs at local SCCA autocross to secure my Spring Series CAM T championship. Other than that I've only driven the car to one cruise night. I could tell there was some binding, every now and then car was very difficult to roll by hand but for the most part, no other signs of an issue.

The locker has made a pretty serious BANG when releasing almost since new which none of my friends with the same lockers hear in their cars. I thought it was "normal"...now second guessing everything...

It's been in the car for 2 years, 3 track day events and a BUNCH of autocross runs on it. SO happy I held off on hitting a road course out here until I had time to inspect it further. It could have ended very badly...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058236 - 07/12/18 03:34 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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Don't that suck!!!!!!!!!!! You are hard on equipment.

One of the reason I do everything myself, if it fails I only have one person to blame, the old blind guy.
Bob

#1058237 - 07/12/18 04:16 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Originally Posted by SSLance
Originally Posted by MC96
That answers my question about which locker springs to run.

Think the case can be salvaged?


Not sure what the locker spring has to do with the ring gear bolts not being loc-tite'd or torqued properly on install?

Also not sure what can be salvaged yet either. That ring gear has been on 4 different diffs over the years, I really hope it's okay. Need to find the source of all the metal, most likely the front pinion bearing me thinks but we'll see.

What pissed me off most is every time I pay good money for someone else to do something for me on this car, it turns to crap...


As in which color you run for auto cross.

Sucks to see, I called a local place about locker parts and they said usually if it needs one thing you're better off just getting a new unit.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1058239 - 07/12/18 04:30 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: MC96]  
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Originally Posted by MC96


As in which color you run for auto cross.

Sucks to see, I called a local place about locker parts and they said usually if it needs one thing you're better off just getting a new unit.


Ah...gotcha... laugh

Yeah, it's tough trying to decide. Thing is, I've heard more stories about brand new parts failing these days than I have about reused stuff... Personally, I think the locker itself will be fine if the one egged out hole isn't an issue. There are no bearings inside it, just metal parts that lock together...so running ground up metal through them doesn't seem like it would hurt it. They either engage...or disengage...no other moving parts to speak of. The ring and pinion gear are a different story though... Gotta decide just how much wear they took on the face of the teeth... Much more of a judgement call. All bearings are a certain on the remove and replace list for sure.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058240 - 07/12/18 04:45 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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I guess the only issue I see is the wave in the case, maybe being bolted up will take care of that. Might have to take the pinion support off and spin the carrier in the case and check for run out now before you find it in final pattern check.

I dont see a problem with used gears as long as they pattern right especially if they are a (somewhat) lower numerically ratio and non-hunting. Something Ive noticed with the quick changes is nobody seems to care about pinion pitting. Although Im not sure how spiral bevel translates to hypoid.

Any high pitched whine at speed? I believe most common wisdom says the pinon bearings usually fail but Ive seen a carrier bearing destroy a carrier without touching anything else. Then we put in a new carrier/bearings. rebolted the ring gear to it and reused the shims as they came out and it never had an issue, in a 10 bolt in a Jimmy, didnt even check the pattern.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1058241 - 07/12/18 05:23 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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The 9" has always been a bit noisier than the 7.5" it replaced but nothing that sounded out of place. The wear pattern on the ring gear teeth looks great and no real sign of metal coming off of them. There is considerable metal in the bottom of the housing though, look at the bolt above sitting down in it. No real noticeable backlash or sloppiness anywhere else than can be felt by hand and the ring gear is still tight on the carrier (I guess it's a bit of a press fit).


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058248 - 07/13/18 04:28 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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MD
I would at least take the locker apart and clean it out really well and reassemble. I rebuilt the front axle in my escalade twice, meticulously, and it still started whining and growling. A guy at work told me to take the carrier apart and sure enough, the side and spider gears were wearing badly on the carrier. Replaced the thrust washers and the carrier housing, new bearings one more time, and haven't had a problem since.

That carrier flange looks scary to me. I second the suggestion to check run-out.

Any word from QP on their lack of Loctite??

Last edited by SickSpeedMonte; 07/13/18 04:29 PM.
#1058249 - 07/13/18 04:35 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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It wasn't QP that put it together the last time, was a local (KC) well recommended shop. I'll let the local (Phoenix) guy doing it this time do what he does...as I'm at his mercy. I grilled him pretty good about what is good and what needs to be done and he says he is on it and it will be fine. I'm pretty certain that there aren't any bearings or gears inside the locker, just mechanical teeth that engage or disengage depending on the spring pressure. Lot less moving parts than a normal type diff.

He has checked the run out and it is good...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058252 - 07/13/18 07:07 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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No bearings in the locker. Good time to check teeth in it though. I was on the fence about replacing mine and had to resort to a few mass circle track FB group posts. Rebuilding them it seems isnt very common and I struggled to find part numbers, I wish I wouldve found a few pictures that showed what a toasted one looked like. I finally had a guy comment on a post saying they were fine so I guess I'll trust a stranger.

The price of the new ones scared me off a little too, I think it was $90 or so for each side piece.

I did make a steal on the locker itself, traded it even up for a the spool and as far as Im concerned junk rink and pinion that came in the qc to a guy. Also got about $600 worth of bolt on spindle pins and axle tubes for $60.
Speedway was closing out ring and pinions for $149 too.

Come to the dark side Lance, youd love a quick change.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1058327 - 07/22/18 12:37 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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It is amazing how much better a car drives when it's ring gear is firmly attached to the carrier!! laugh YUGE difference... Guess i hadn't realized just how sloppy the drive train had gotten over time. It's been bad for a while now. Can't believe all of the races I've run with it like that as well.

Also spent some quality time given so love to a few other things back there while it was on the rack. Felt some looseness in the lower control arm joints so I pulled them all and gave them a refresh. Beautiful thing about UMI Roto-Joints, 100% servicable... Each one was a 1/4 - 1/2 turn loose on the adjuster but each delrin piece looked perfect so I cleaned them up, put a layer of grease on the center piece and put them back in the arms. Pretty sure the looseness I felt was the actual control arms bolts themselves backing out just a bit. I haven't touched ANY of that stuff since I put them in almost 5 years ago now...they should be good to go for another 5 years of abuse now.

The parking brake setup needed a bit of love as well. The Stoptech setup uses an internal parking brake shoe (C6 I believe with some other GM parts thrown in) and when I put it all in I just set them up super loose. They worked but at some point one of the cables came out of the connector and a clip that holds the top of one of the shoes in place also broke. Since I was in there anyway and had a bit more time I replaced the broken clip and made sure it all went together properly. I then spent a bunch of time adjusting them and making sure each side rotated freely and tightened up with the same amount of pull on the cables. They should be good to go now as well.

Lastly, the last time I raced the car, when I put it on the trailer to bring it home, I wrapped the tie down strap around the RR flex line to the caliper. When I got home I noticed brake fluid everywhere... **eek** Thankfully, all it did was loosen the banjo bolt up when it pulled the cable back and I was able to snug the bolt back up and stop the leak. The Master cylinder was very close to being out of fluid but I put more in before ever pressing the pedal so I didn't need to bleed it again...but we did re-bleed the rear calipers to make sure all of the air was out and checked all the lines and fittings one more time for leaks. That's all good now too...

Lastly was a road trip around town in the 110 degree afternoon heat with the AC on to see how the cooling system would handle it. After figuring out the diff was MUCH better I rolled the windows up, cranked the AC and cruised around for a bit. It stayed near 180 where the stat opens up for a while but several waits at stop lights in a row got it to creeping up. A little break in traffic stopped it from climbing but the next set of stop lights had it creeping up again so I turned the AC off to see if that helped. It leveled off about 210-215 degrees, warmer than I like but not bad really...then I noticed that I hadn't turned the fans on high with my manual switch. Pretty sure the auto switch turns them on high at 215 degrees. So I hit the switch then turned the AC back on and cruised around a bit some more. It dropped back down to around 200 and stayed there...stoplights, slow speed cruising, even idling around the neighborhood a few times. I think that'll do...

The AC cooled the car right down and worked like a champ. It's had a slow oil leak for over 4 years now, every now and then I'll find green fluid under the hose where it comes out of the accumulator...I have NO IDEA how it keeps running and cooling like it does. The fan switch only works on high though... Isn't there a fix for that? Seems like I've seen others with that issue. High is fine but frankly, it could use to run a speed or two lower once the car is cooled down, even when it's 110 degrees outside.

Anyway, good to get a bunch of little things down to it, maybe now I can drive it a bit more regularly and who knows...maybe even hit a track day or two soon... laugh


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058335 - 07/22/18 10:31 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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With these car builds we do using aftermarket parts comes the maintenance of keeping things glued together. Parts fails, leak, stop working, just another day in the life of a built car. Had my share of stuff lately also.

Hopefully the rear is back together for the last time. Were you able to salvage the R&P and locker?
Having a working parking brake on a stick car is a necessity IMO. A neutral safety switch is also a good thing to have. Today with FI and mostly automatics people will just reach in the window to start the engine, nothing good every comes of that with a stick car without a safety switch,

It gets pretty warm down in the SW in the Summer, I complain when it's 90. isn't that why most car there are white?
Bob

#1058347 - 07/23/18 03:53 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Actually the car of choice (in our neighborhood anyway) seems to be a Black Escalade of all things. Neighbor two houses down has 3 black vehicles, 2 SUVs and a truck. From what I can tell, color doesn't really matter...if it's out in the sun, it's gonna get damn hot and fast...white or black. Thing is, AC works MUCH better down here than it did in the Midwest. We went to an outdoor concert last night, 107 degrees at the start at 7 pm and 98 degrees when it was over about 11:30. I turned the AC down off of MAX in the Jeep before we even got to the highway a couple miles away from the Pavilion it cooled down that fast.

Yeah, I saved the R&P and Locker, there was no sign of wear or heat to either of them. I think I just never got it hot (1) and (2) the metal was shavings from the cast housing...not real steel like from the hard parts inside so it didn't harm anything else. Seems the magnetized drain plug did a pretty good job of holding all the metal down in the bottom of the housing also.

Next up is installing the fire suppression system I bought about 6 months ago in Barney. I haven't laid out a design plan just yet but pretty sure it'll involve taking at least some of the interior out of the car. Having just got it back road ready after a long layup, I'm hesitant to pull it back apart already. Probably be Labor day or so before I'm ready to road race it again so no real rush.

I also have a MMF front sway bar kit on order that will need some pretty heavy fab to get installed once it gets here. Need to get a workbench of some sort setup soon...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058348 - 07/23/18 04:40 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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I want more info on this bar..


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1058353 - 07/23/18 11:04 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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In due time... Patience grasshopper...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058428 - 07/31/18 01:56 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: MC96]  
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Originally Posted by MC96
I want more info on this bar..


**whistling**

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

We should quit messing around & put the 1.325" bar in it.
1181# in the long hole for autocross
1485# in the short hole for road courses.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058924 - 09/03/18 05:36 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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So I did a track day at Inde Motorsports ranch this weekend and had a blast. Love my new Stoptech brakes, this is where they really show their worth.

Here is a video a friend posted after following me for a few laps Sat afternoon. I'll post my in car videos up later after I have time to get them ready. Figured this would wet your appetites for now...

https://youtu.be/AgOJuaXcdK4


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058926 - 09/03/18 07:52 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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Watching, nice catch a few times,loose a few times, Oops, video ends.

Always a pleasure riding along with you.
Bob

#1058942 - 09/04/18 07:30 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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So this video is kind of long, some will like to watch it all, others will either want to FF to the 6:10 mark to watch some drama or the 10:50 mark to watch my fastest two laps of the day.

https://youtu.be/5PhoZxxRq_M

Had a blast running at Inde, what a great track. Loved how technical it was and especially how little there was to run into if you did happen to have an off. It is pretty easy to navigate around yet can be very difficult to really put a fast lap down, lot in the driver's hands there.

The car did fantastic, I really love the new brakes. I didn't really start testing them deep into braking zones until later on Sunday, I kind of snuck up on that as I've never driven a car on course before with this kind of stopping power. Once you realize that yes...it is going to whoa down in a hurry from just about any speed, you can REALLY drive deep into corners and make up a lot of ground on others that can't brake quite like that. It is exhilarating!!!

One other thing that has changed on the car since the brake\spindle upgrade is the front is stuck like glue with the additional ackerman and camber gain...so much so that there is little to none front tire wear even with the high speed sweepers on this course. I wish I had figured this out sooner as I left my worst tires on the rear (hurt them at Good Guys) and my good pair up front and after day one my left rear was toast...almost zero tread left on it while the front tires still looked fantastic. I put the bald rears on the front for Sunday and the one hurt the most on the left front where it would take the least amount of work since we were running backwards that day. Even after 3 hard sessions, the front with zero tread on it still stuck like glue and showed no more wear.

BTW, be sure to notice how my little truck engine kept up with all the LS powered cars down the straights (and even coming out of the corners)...even though I was down probably 50-75 hp running at 4100 feet with a carb tuned to run at 850 feet. wink If you listen close you can hear it gurgling coming out of just about every corner. It did fine on the big straights once cleaned, out but it really did load up on slower corners.

Now it's time to clean Barney up, assess the wear items...and prep it for another day...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
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