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#820763 - 09/01/10 11:33 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: mmc427ss]  
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kevins88ss Offline
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Southern Maine
If you take the time to manually set the High and Low on the SPAL v3 then it works excellent. I use an AutoMeter sender in the manifold coolant neck and its worked great for me.

#854348 - 02/17/11 04:41 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: kevins88ss]  
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gmachinz Offline
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No time to build a PWM controller as of yet. Got into other projects with water fuel cells and that has taken up a lot of my time lately. I've just recovered from an auto accident for the most part and will be resuming work on some controller ideas. The V3 Spal PWM's have a built-in over-current protection circuit which will shut the unit down if start-up current exceeds 25 amps....from what I have tested, the inrush current is tripping the circuit. So for any fatory style HO fan, the V3 is not the best choice.


gbodyparts1234@yahoo.com

HARNESSWORX
#868162 - 04/20/11 11:52 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: gmachinz]  
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sslover85 Offline
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Killeen, Texas
I'm almost finished my install. I'm putting a taurus fan in my Monte. Now all I really have to do is figure out how to finish my 144 alternator install.....




85 SS Sold
80 El Camino Sold
62 Chevy Impala
96 Impala SS


#871399 - 05/05/11 06:12 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: sslover85]  
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jons86 Offline
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greensboro,nc
hey anybody, got my serpentine sys on finally. need info on electric Intrepid fans I have 4 wires. i'm currently using the 2 middle wires going to the cheap adj fan controller. i need high speed to run my a/c.

#871413 - 05/05/11 07:57 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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BP One Offline
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Lyman, SC
Greetings,

Been reading this FAQ and finally nabbed a Mark VIII fan this past week. Since I'm doing a frame-on resto-mod, installing the fan is a ways off yet.

My question is: has any one considered using the STOCK fan controller off of the donor car? I must've been the first guy to molest this particular car in my local U-Pull-It, and everything was still in place. I mean, if the factory had worked out the initial current draw problem, why not swap over the controller too?

Just wondering.

Brian


Brian

My Homepage

1987 Monte Carlo SS
1987 Monte Carlo LS
2001 Silverado


#893383 - 09/04/11 09:33 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: BP One]  
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tall t-top Offline
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San Antonio, Texas
Would there be any issues pulling my constant 12v from the stud on the back of the altenator. I have a dual fan set up. Each fan is gonna have its own relay that will be triggered by a ignition 12v sorce. the dual fans are from a camaro.

Last edited by tall t-top; 09/04/11 09:34 PM.

Andrew

86 MC SS t-top, 305 with port and polish, Edlebrock Performer Intake, Flowtech Afterburner headers, duals to Jeg's chambered mufflers, Jeep steering shaft, Turbo Eclipse seats (Weekend toy but a project at the moment)
91 C1500 extended cab, TBI 350, 2in suspension lift, Jeep steering shaft. (Daily driver)
2012 Mitsu Outlander Sport (wife's car)
#921576 - 03/04/12 08:09 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: tall t-top]  
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tall t-top Offline
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San Antonio, Texas
any thoughts on my question?


Andrew

86 MC SS t-top, 305 with port and polish, Edlebrock Performer Intake, Flowtech Afterburner headers, duals to Jeg's chambered mufflers, Jeep steering shaft, Turbo Eclipse seats (Weekend toy but a project at the moment)
91 C1500 extended cab, TBI 350, 2in suspension lift, Jeep steering shaft. (Daily driver)
2012 Mitsu Outlander Sport (wife's car)
#921591 - 03/04/12 09:56 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: tall t-top]  
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Hunter79764 Offline
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Grand Prairie, Tx
It would work if you had to do it that way, but its better to hook it to the battery if can. You will get a dip in your lights etc when the fans come on if you are hooked to the alternator directly. The battery helps smooth it out. Technically it shouldn't matter since there is wire connecting the battery and alternator, but it makes a difference.


Sometimes you just need a bigger hammer...

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#994574 - 02/10/14 03:56 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: BP One]  
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onovakind67 Offline
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Fairfield, CA
Originally Posted By: BP One
Greetings,

Been reading this FAQ and finally nabbed a Mark VIII fan this past week. Since I'm doing a frame-on resto-mod, installing the fan is a ways off yet.

My question is: has any one considered using the STOCK fan controller off of the donor car? I must've been the first guy to molest this particular car in my local U-Pull-It, and everything was still in place. I mean, if the factory had worked out the initial current draw problem, why not swap over the controller too?

Just wondering.

Brian


The guys over at NastyZ28 have beat this thing into submission with a stock Volvo part.

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200028

#994608 - 02/10/14 11:53 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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gmachinz Offline
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Des Moines, Iowa
Well, having been building Mark VIII and other Motorcraft fan kits for 9 years now, I can tell you the Lincoln VSC controller for the fan can't realistically be configured for universal use because they use several fixed capacitors to vary voltage load to the fan based on vehicle speed, coolant temp, ambient air temp, AC useage, etc. It's basically a PCM to control all aspects of fan speed. Cracking Lincoln's code for input values would be tricky enough.....way over the top for a fan control imo and a waste of resources.
I have dealt with at least 150+ Mark VIII fans both new and used and have yet to encounter a 2-speed Mark VIII. The Volvo relay is a tuff unit to be sure....I use them for both the T-Bird fans as well as the 2-speed Crown Victoria fans which I install in a lot of 73-87 trucks, K5's and Suburbans. For a dual speed fan, they can't be beat.

My resistor harnesses utilize parts that are readily available at any parts store or dealership even....so this makes it more "serviceable" than even the Hollister kit imo. My kits aren't voodoo-they're based on a proven resistor method which GM and others have used on millions of vehicles. My relays act as carriers of current based on amount of resistance they must flow throw to vary voltage at the fan. Temp. switch ground and/or override feature determine which relays are "on" or "off" as it were. I can send you some info if you'd like....I'd put mine up against anybody else's kit for evaluation.


gbodyparts1234@yahoo.com

HARNESSWORX
#994653 - 02/11/14 01:17 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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FrankOC Offline
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Cape Cod, MA
I had a Mark VIII single speed fan which would cause the engine to stumble when it came on. I replaced it with a new, true 2-speed fan out of a 94 Cougar XR7. It looks identical to the Mark VIII fan and approximate airflow of the Mark VIII fan. It cured the stumble issue and makes for a clean looking installation.


84 - Stock
85 - ZZ383, 6-speed
#994726 - 02/12/14 03:39 AM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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gmachinz Offline
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Yes-that is the same RF24 fan as the Tbirds use. Using a Volvo controller with it is the way to go for the 2-speed fans.


gbodyparts1234@yahoo.com

HARNESSWORX
#1006251 - 06/29/14 08:09 AM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: sslover85]  
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Fred SS Offline
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Glassboro, NJ
Originally Posted By: sslover85
I'm almost finished my install. I'm putting a taurus fan in my Monte. Now all I really have to do is figure out how to finish my 144 alternator install.....


I have the Ramcharger fans, and my volt gauge would read fine until I had my headlights on while idling. I installed a CS-144 alternator using the aluminum bracket from gmachinz and it is great. The volt gauge stays over 12 volts no matter what electrical accessory comes on.


87 SS, Harwood cowl induction hood, UMI trailing arms. Edelbrock TES Headers (Jet Hot Coated). GM Goodwrench 350, TPI & Trick Flow 56cc alum heads, SLP runners, ported plenum, Comp Cams 260AH-12 cam, Trick Flow 1.5 roller rockers, Bilsteins, TCI 2400 stall converter, Ramcharger fans, SLP ZR1 rims.
#1006306 - 06/29/14 09:54 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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gmachinz Offline
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Des Moines, Iowa
Nice, Fred! I did a charging system upgrade on a 70 Monte and seen similar results. Running system voltage was 14.66 out of the alternator and measured 14.62 @ the fuse block BAT terminal inside the car. With AC on high, headlights on, running an amplified stereo system up and operating the power windows system voltage only dipped to 14.52-54! That combined with the 4ga. system upgrade was a substantial improvement over the stock charging system.


gbodyparts1234@yahoo.com

HARNESSWORX
#1013929 - 10/08/14 03:50 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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Keithss Offline
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Jackson,mi
I am looking at the Billet Specialties V-Trac pulley system number V3220. It comes with a 105 amp. alternator and there is no option to up grade. Do you think 105 is enough to run the AC and Fan's??
Any one know what the stock out put is for a 85 Monte SS?
Keith

#1013935 - 10/08/14 07:19 PM Re: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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gmachinz Offline
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I believe the stock amp rating is 78A and is an SI type. There are other options for a serpentine conversion if that's your main reason unless of course you like the looks of it. I would suggest taking a look at the stock GM serpentine setup if for no other reason other than parts are easily accessible at any parts store.


gbodyparts1234@yahoo.com

HARNESSWORX
#1041809 - 07/25/16 07:42 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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Lobito Offline
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North Bergen, NJ
Gents,

I'm on the final stretch of upgrading to electrical fans on my black Monte, just waiting on one final piece to my puzzle. So far I have replaced (not by choice) the water pump, radiator and upgraded to a CS144 and ramcharger fans.

I'm a huge DIY fan. Anything I can do myself I'll do. But after doing the fan upgrade to a couple of my previous Montes, I have come to terms with myself and just going to buy the wire harness next time. Buying little things here and there to get these to work can be a pain. Not to mentioned the wire they sell at some of these auto parts stores is garbage.

I have never bought a full wire harness from Gmachinz, only a pig tale for the fans. But next time, he will be the person I go to. I have had him on the phone in two different occasions, and the guys knows his $hit. From the amount of strands in a certain gauge wire to the amp draw of a flux capacitor.

If you sit there and figure out the cost of the parts and time you spent putting everything together, his prices are VERY reasonable. And let's face it guys, some of us suck at soldering and wiring things that work correctly.

Just in case, here's my disclaimer:
I don't make a cent from him or get any sort of discounts. I have been around on this board long enough to know a good vendor from a "ehhhh" vendor.

just my 2 cents =)


[Linked Image]
#1058190 - 07/10/18 02:37 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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Pottstown, Pa
Yep an old thread, but need to update my 12 year old Spal PWM install.

After more than a decade using the Spal controller it started to behave erratic, low fan would come on when the engine was started cold. Tried to reset low/high set points and it wouldn't respond to the new points. But it would run both fans when the overide was turned on. Took the car for a short ride up the street, pulled back in front of the shop doors and the A/C compressor pressure relief blew off dumping some R12, fans didn't turn on. Checked all the connections for corrosion, removed all power from it and reconnected, now the controller is dead, unresponsive. Time to shop for a new controller. As it goes the reviews on several of the controllers out there are not good.

Looking at all the available controllers there is only one stand alone that does what i need and is weatherproof to some degree. Don't want a probe stuck in the rad, need to have A/C request, need to be able to run the fans via an overide, want a PWM version, needs to be small and not a visual eyesore, weatherproof to some degree. My Spal dual 11" fans draw only 25 amps each so don't have the high current draw some of the other dual fans have.
Yesterday ordered an Autocoolguys 85 PWM controller along with their inline sensor which installs in the lower rad hose. http://www.autocoolguy.com/ Several conversations with Darrel, who was immediately available for questions, and the unit will ship out today.

Have already pulled out the Spal unit and it's extensive harness that was made 12 years ago to see what can be reused, which is most of it. Curiosity had me take what can be taken apart in the Spal PWM to see what caused it demise. Water had leaked past the seal around the low/high/LED area and corroded the PC board. The low switch and a 100mf cap were effected which are exposed, the rest of the board is epoxy sealed.
The water pump and rad were pulled prior to the failure and the cooling system and areas washed. That might have been the last straws for the Spal. But the amount of green corrosion around the low switch says water was seeping in for quite some time.

Will update the Autocool install and performance. Their take on sensor location is to install it in the outlet of the rad so the controller monitors return water temp. This is the first I've seen of this approach, time will tell how this concept works.
Bob

#1058196 - 07/10/18 06:04 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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200kSS Offline
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Bloomsdale, MO
Thanks for the update. My recently installed used SPAL PWM controller has been ok so far controlling Intrepid fans.

Looking hard at fan control devices/kits for a couple other cars in the fleet. A friend/shop owner recommends this: https://www.speedcooling.com/Programmable-Dual-Electric-Fan-Controller-Kit.html and runs it on his car (G-body sbc w/air). Says he's installed several with zero issues.

Looking forward to your install and review.


88 SS Black/Oxblood. Power Tour car
80 Malibu 2dr. Drag Week car
#1058206 - 07/10/18 10:19 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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Hunter79764 Offline
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Grand Prairie, Tx
I think lower radiator hose temperature sensing is close to optimal for actually knowing when the fan needs to come on, but there might be a slight system lag from when you want cool water to when you have it. I'm planning on building a controller (as a project, just because I can not because I can't find something off-the-shelf that would work). When I do, I plan on running it off the air temperature leaving the radiator. It is a little bit overkill as far as system response goes, but should ensure that there is always a steady supply of cool water to feed the engine. In reality, running off the lower radiator hose is going to get 99% the same result, which is reduced fan run time and power consumption.
If you (or anyone)has concerns about the power handling ability of a given PWM controller, you might look at using the controller to drive a Solid State Relay instead of the fan itself. It would add a few dollars, but you could size it to match High Amperage fans that would kill most controllers if you ran them directly. Just my $.02


Sometimes you just need a bigger hammer...

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1058256 - 07/14/18 04:02 AM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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mmc427ss  Online Content
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Pottstown, Pa
The new controller arrived yesterday, spent hours finding the necessary pieces to wire it in. At almost twice the size of the Spal it will be much harder to hide and access. It will go in the same place as the Spal, between the battery and rad support, mounted to the rad support. An alum box shielding it from the elements similar to the Spal box and allowing it to breathe will require some effort and the hardest part of the install.

Alternator and ground wires where upgraded when the Spal was done way back when, they are good. The Spal fans pull 25 amps, they are fuses at 30 with #12 wire. A new #8 from the 85 PWM for the grounding of the fans will make for an more than adequate system. The new PWM grounds the fans using the controller, both fans run on PWM at the same time. A ground runs from each fan to the controller, a common ground back to the battery is used for both fans, this the reason for the #8.

All the Spal harness connections, 7 of them, were done with Metri-pack borrowed from 80s, 90s GM donors, 480 and 630 series, it was much easier finding new correct terminals to use then. Tried a dozen places looking for them and finally pulled some strings at my local Chev dealer parts guy, bingo. It's amazing how much junk electrical parts are on the racks at the car parts houses. Needed #8 wire, #10 stud ring connectors, forget it, ended up in my brother's stash from 25 years ago to find two. Yes, you can find some of this stuff on line, in a bag of 25, made who knows where, and have it next week. I like touching stuff before i buy it, gotta break that habit.
Bob

#1058269 - 07/15/18 02:57 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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mmc427ss  Online Content
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Got the alum controller mount/water shield fabbed yesterday and dropped off to TIG the seams. Should pick it up Mon, dress the edges and maybe drop off at the powder coater Mon afternoon for some matte black coating. Fortunately have good guys here that turn stuff around quickly. The bracket for the oil catch can was 6 hour turn around for powdercaoating.

Autocoolguy, can't say enough about the tech support, OUTSTANDING! Called him last week twice for questions about which controller to buy, no voice mail needed, he picked up right away. Order shipped on Mon last week, Priority Mail, arrived Thurs. Emailed him last night, Sat 10pm, got response this morning. Emailed him again at 8:30am Sun morning, got response back in minutes. Now that is customer service !!!! And he is on the West coast, I'm East coast. With some of the other controllers I've heard bad things and poor customer service, weeks for replies or don't have an answer to why their controller failed again. So far VERY happy with Darrel at Autocoolguy.
Bob

#1058331 - 07/22/18 04:32 AM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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mmc427ss  Online Content
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Pottstown, Pa
Picked up the mount on Weds and spend several hours making a harness to tie it all together. The old Spal controller was about 1/2 the size of the new one, mounting and the harness for the new 85 PWM was a challenge. The three wires running from the thermostat housing mounted old sensor to the Spal were saved and included in the new harness just in case they are needed in the future. Those three a along with two fans with #12 hot and ground, a #8 ground for the new PWM, a bunch of small wire there are 11 wires in the harness. But the harness is a standalone with metri pack connections and can be removed any time. Glad that is done, well almost.

Started the car today and first thing I hear is the "fan buzz" issue. I know what that noise is right away and I'm not happy, AT ALL. Here's a short video on autocool guy site. You can hear the buzzing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=z-kbpEZ-GHs

At this point need to drive the car to dial in the fans turn on temp. It rained today and it was like 70, car idle for 20 minutes in my shop and never got hot enough to need the fans. That's a road trip setup fan turn on temp..

Ran the A/C and the fans turned on full speed and cycled off the A/C high pressure switch just like the old Spal did. So that piece of the pie is all good. Just need to take another look at the A/C gauges to see if the system is full again after the compressor relief popped to start this whole project.

The manual fan override switch on the console supplied a 12+ to the old Spal via A/C input. So two inputs tied to one, a couple diodes and it worked like a charm for 10+ years. I retained that circuit as it's all wired into the engine harness and now have it as the A/C input to the new controller. The new controller has a "fail safe" input which you supply a ground to turn on the fans full speed. I didn't use it as that would require running a ground wire from the controller next to the battery back to the console, that wasn't happening, using the A/C input circuit as is for A/C and manual overide..

The 85 PWM has a one minute run time when you shut the engine off. Wasn't sure i need that feature, the old Spal didn't have it. You hear some cars fans running after the engine is shut off, some of the hot rod fan installs annoy me with the noise of a fan running high speed after shutoff, my son's truck for one. But at this point with the minimum run time and shutdowns it appears the fans don't run at full speed, maybe 1/4 speed so maybe it won't annoy me.
A 1 amp 12+ and ground are supplied to the new controller, this I'm assume is used to power up the controller to allow the 1 minute run time after IGN power is turned off. My thinking is to defeat the "run after shutdown" feature you disconnect the Bat supply to the unit, just pull the fuse. Let you know how that turns out.

So the install and performance is as expected, with the exception of the buzzing. Don't think i can live with it! Will call autocool on Mon but think it will cost me another 60 bucks for the Buzz Box and several hours of of labor redoing the harness to get rid of that buzz.
http://www.autocoolguy.com/product-page/buzz-box

Bob

#1058332 - 07/22/18 05:22 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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SSLance Offline
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Does it buzz 100% of the time the ignition is on? If so...bleh...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1058334 - 07/22/18 10:13 PM Re: STICKY: Electric Fan FAQ [Re: lazygearhead]  
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mmc427ss Online content
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mmc427ss  Online Content
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No, buzz is when fans are running, buzz increases as speed of fans increase. It's not the controller buzzing, it's the motors on the fans. Was told by autocool before i bought the 85 PWM that some fans buzz, others may not. Have Spal dual 11" fans for 10+ years, no buzzing with old controller. They pull 25 A each fan max, 50 total. Was choosing between the 85 PWM and the NB 100 PWM they offer. The physical size of the 100, larger, was the primary reason to go with the 85. Of course the 100 being blue, not black, was another factor. Not much room between the battery and rad support to squeeze even the 85 in.

I'll get rid of the buzz, just not an immediate problem right now, need to put miles on the car, it's Summertime here.
Bob

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