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#996416 - 03/03/14 04:00 AM Re: body bushings [Re: MouseInDaHouse]  
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Just installed the Energy Suspension 9.4102G bushings in position #1 (radiator support). They're a very close match but I think if I had to do it over I would order 2) Energy Suspension #4133 and 2) Energy Suspension #4134. These are the part numbers on top and bottom halves of the bushings that come in the 3.4141 complete kit for our cars.

The 9.4102g "universal" kit matches up fairly well in overall thickness and diameter - they're not tapered at 2.5". The 4133 is tapered at 2.65 to 2.38 and the 4134 is not tapered at 2.23". However, the hole in the radiator support is right at 1.5" - the "protrusion" that sits inside the hole on 4133/4134 are 1.505/1.498 and should fit snuggle in the opening.

I bought the 9.4102g bushings many months ago without knowing or checking the opening size and until recently didn't know you could order the "real" bushings separately. The "protrusion" for the 9.4102g bushings are 1.25" and fit loosely in the opening,, but I'm trying to convince myself that once torqued down and no harder than I plan on pushing the car there shouldn't be much (if any) movement,, or at the least they should be "better" that the old ones - lol.

Originally Posted By: MouseInDaHouse
Most of you probably already know this but Energy Suspension also makes a firmer poly bushing. Supposedly the standard black bushing is 70A Durometer.
Their firm bushing is rated at 80A.

I only found this while looking at bushings for the #1 area.
Energy suspension
9.4102G (Soft)
9.4101G (Firm)

Interesting to note that the ratings I've seen for Prothane are 88A Durometer.


There's quite a bit of difference in the dimensions of those two bushings,, especially in thickness (would need a lot more shims) and the "protrusion area" is only 7/8" (even greater potential of movement).


#1002994 - 05/22/14 05:34 AM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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any one know the diemensions of the energy suspenion bushings part number 4134 and 4133. or locations 1, and 7. i need to make delrin body bushings that would lift my body 1in to clear the 5.3 truck intake.

#1024818 - 05/24/15 05:21 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Here's a link to the Energy bushing measurements.
https://www.suspension.com/BODYMOUNT.html

The G-body bushings are:
#1,2,4,6,7 are a #4134 and 4143, these are the upper and lower bushings for those locations. The #1 is the same as the others, it's just flips the upper to the lower position, lower to the upper position.
For the #3 position the numbers are, 4131 and 4132, they are distinctly different from the others.
The #5 bushing is 4135, the infamous GNX bushing as some like to refer to it.

Angel, if you want the install instruction sheet for the Energy 3-4141 kit I can email you a pic of it.

When I purchased Delrin to make bushings McMaster-Carr is where it was sourced from. A 1' stick of 3" made 4 bushings, upper and lower. #1 and #2 bushings are now Delrin.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/121/3627/=xblss0

Going to order more shortly to make the #3,4,6,7 bushings in Delrin. Will continue to use the Energy black urethane at the #5 position.

Interestingly all Delrin and urethane I made shorter than stock height, this to lower the body on the frame by 3/16". You intend to make taller bushing to raise the body off the frame.
Bob

#1024820 - 05/24/15 06:11 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Here's the instruction sheet for the 3-4141 Energy bushings, G-body.
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/Installation_Instructions/Energy_Suspension/17132.PDF
Bob

#1024944 - 05/27/15 12:25 AM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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monte ss496 Offline
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granby,mass
I just finished doing the poly body mounts on the 1984 that I bought from man black and couldn't be happier! All the bolts came right out and the car rides very nice!


85 SS 496/th400/strange dana 60
#1037361 - 04/06/16 01:47 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Hi Guys,

I work for a company that makes body bushings and cradle mounts for the OEM's if anyone has any technical questions feel free to ask.

I'm currently considering making modifications to my frame that would allow me run a modern style cradle mount.


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, FABbot AR5 5-speed, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build blog on Summit Racing's OnAll Cylinders https://www.onallcylinders.com/author/travis-jones/
#1037362 - 04/06/16 02:05 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: Travis Jones]  
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oldtinsmith Offline
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Auburn, Mi.
Originally Posted By: thepezking639
Hi Guys,

I work for a company that makes body bushings and cradle mounts for the OEM's if anyone has any technical questions feel free to ask.

I'm currently considering making modifications to my frame that would allow me run a modern style cradle mount.


Well, you've got my interest about the "cradle" mount! Please tell/show me more.

Doug

#1037363 - 04/06/16 02:21 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: oldtinsmith]  
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Ferndale, MI
So most luxury or performance vehicles now have a unibody and isolated cradles, in the front with a front engine cradle and lower suspension attachment points and in the rear with an isolated suspension cradle for the suspensions mounts.

a cradle mount looks like a big bushing with a lip on one side. they are pressed into the cradle and attached to the body. They are great for NVH and ride, depending on tuning, we can change the rate and loss angle in the X/Y/Z direction. meaning we can have a cradle mount that rides soft (y direction) is firm in the cross car direction (x direction) and softer in the z direction for pothole events.

In thinking about adapting a cradle moumt style body attachment point, i would need to A cut bigger diameter holes in the frame, and weld a corresponding tube to create the OD for the cradle mount to be pressed into, and then on the body side i would have create a way to use a much bigger bolt, at least an M16 fastener.

The other option would be use a modern truck cab mount, which the lower washer with knurled bolts which would allow for a similar installation, but i need to investigate how thick the current body bushings are and if anything we have "off the shelf" would work.


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, FABbot AR5 5-speed, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build blog on Summit Racing's OnAll Cylinders https://www.onallcylinders.com/author/travis-jones/
#1050202 - 04/21/17 03:35 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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I can be a little help with measurements, have some new originals rubber, a couple new Prothane and measurements from the Delrin mounts I had made. I will email you the print for the Delrin made for #2, That should be give you an idea of dimensions for everything except height of the bushing between the frame and body. The bottom side of the Delrin mimics the poly. I still have all the original rubber mounts in a box yet also. Don't forget that the #3 bushing is an odd ball.
Bob

#1057237 - 05/10/18 06:28 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Witness86SS Offline
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Hatfield, PA
Looking for recommendations on a complete under $200 kit for body bushings. I want handling improvements. Comfort is not a factor. Not looking to mix and match kits.

Thanks!


Justin
1986 Black SS
Upgrades: 350 L05 - Hooker Longtubes - FlowMaster True Dual 2.5" - Electric Cutouts - Electric Fans - Transcooler - Proforged Steering Kit - Astro Shaft - AR62 OUTLAW II Wheels - Energy Suspension Bushings - Bitflipper Chip - 87 ECM - Moog Springs and Ball Joints - Bilstein Shocks - Bucket Seats
#1057244 - 05/11/18 02:18 AM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Either the Energy or Prothane kits will do. Both are complete kits minus the bolts.
The black Prothane I measure at a slightly higher durometer than the black Energy, Prothane were used in the 86.

Read all the info in the "body bushings" post and you'll have a good idea of what is involved. Depending on the car's condition it can be a fairly easy job, or it can be a major PITA.
Bob

#1057255 - 05/11/18 01:39 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Hatfield, PA
Thanks Bob,
I ordered the black Energy set
I'm familiar with the job. Going to take the opportunity to epoxy the frame and rockers while i have it jacked up. Really hoping that i'm not opening pandora's box with the rockers and the sheet metal above the rear.


Justin
1986 Black SS
Upgrades: 350 L05 - Hooker Longtubes - FlowMaster True Dual 2.5" - Electric Cutouts - Electric Fans - Transcooler - Proforged Steering Kit - Astro Shaft - AR62 OUTLAW II Wheels - Energy Suspension Bushings - Bitflipper Chip - 87 ECM - Moog Springs and Ball Joints - Bilstein Shocks - Bucket Seats
#1057271 - 05/12/18 04:24 AM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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As they say, could be opening a can of worms.

Still need that wire for the ESC?
Bob

#1063828 - 10/20/19 04:53 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Perry, IA
Hello,
Back in 2015 I ordered a DM94017 kit (78-88 14-Point Body Bushing Hardware (w/ radiator support)) from Dixie Restoration for my 1979 Monte Carlo. Got it all installed. I was under the car 2 weeks ago. I noticed I was missing the #3 bolt and the whatever goes on the underside.

This is the one just behind the transmission cross member on the passenger side.


Is it just a washer and bolt here? Or is there more than that?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Thanks,

Russ

#1063830 - 10/20/19 06:42 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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#3 is the odd bushing, different than all the rest, both the upper and lower and the bolt is different. You are missing the lower half which has the steel sleeve in it, the bolt and the large washer. Call Dixie first, see who the manufacture is. If poly then call that supplier, Energy or Prothane really the only two, see if they will sell you a replacement. There are slight differences between those two companies parts, may not be able to use a Prothane lower on an Energy upper, or versa- vica.
Your phone is your friend right now.

You should go over all the body mount bolts and check they are tight. I do 45 lbs, GM says like 55, but check periodically. Some will get loose after things settle out.
Bob

#1063832 - 10/20/19 06:58 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: mmc427ss]  
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I shot a message to Dixie beings it is Sunday. I'll see what I can find. DEFINITELY going to be checking the rest. LOL! When I did the original replacement, I think 2 or so were gone from rust and a couple more were nearly rusted all the way through. Was a little scary after I thought about it! :-)

#1063833 - 10/20/19 08:06 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Here's good pic of the Prothane kit sold by PST. The #3 bushing is in the lower right corner. They actually install the opposite of the #2,4,5,6,7 which have the shoulder in the upper, the #3 shoulder is in the lower bushing.

https://p-s-t.com/i-23159839-polygraphite-body-mount-kit.html#!model%3DMONTE%20CARLO%20SS%7C%7Cmake%3DCHEVROLET%7C%7Cyear%3D1986

Less torque on the bolts if the steel body mount area is rust compromised. You could put a drop of blue locktite on the threads to keep them glued in.
Bob

#1063834 - 10/20/19 08:36 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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Now I remember. OK. Thanks Bob!

I had never done ANYTHING like that before I did this. Turned out not to be soo bad. I only had to patch the frame in the rear. Thanks!!!

Hopefully Dixie can sell me just what I need. And this time I'll use a little locktite. I made them serviceable with a plastic cap.

#1063914 - 10/27/19 08:49 PM Re: STICKY: body bushings [Re: MattsMonte]  
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MAP Offline
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MAP  Offline
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Hi Folks,

Travis - would you please confirm you're using x,y,z orientations per standard SAE: x is longitudinal (roll axis), y is transverse (pitch axis), and z is vertical (yaw axis)?
Also, I'm unclear about those front/rear subframe bushing configurations. Sounds like the bushings have special shapes so that an isotropic material can offer different bushing stiffnesses in different directions. I'm also guessing that the bushing shape and cradle shapes are adjusted so that stiffness varies as a function of bushing strain with positive non-linearity: that is, stiffness increases with increasing strain.

Sounds like "tuned" bushings could help a lot at the suspension pickup points, but between the body and frame, it's less clear how to improve matters because the frame is so terribly floppy. Starting with: 1. stiffest at the car ends; 2. lowest stiffness in z; 3. high loss factor everywhere, is pretty much unimpeachable. By the way Shore A 88 is quite stiff per that earlier link. I think even Shore A 60 wouldn't be too soft for our A/G body bushings, with a loss factor of 1 or even higher. And IIR, not TPU, to the rescue again!

Pictures would help a lot, incidentally.

Best,
MAP




Last edited by MAP; 10/27/19 09:02 PM.
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