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#1054363 - 11/12/17 03:23 PM Anybody missing an 87 Aero?  
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gmachinz Offline
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https://desmoines.craigslist.org/cto/d/1987-monte-carlo-ss-aero-coupe/6376338265.html

Sketchy deal with no title or VIN tag anymore....but at $750/obo I had to call and ask about it....but it sold 3 days after it posted. Anybody have a missing 87 Aero with t-tops and loaded? Buddy went to look at it on 1st day but passed when he seen the VIN was missing.


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#1054365 - 11/12/17 07:12 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: gmachinz]  
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PB86SS/87LS Online beer
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No VIN? How can you tell, pic is a bit fuzzy looking that close. No title for a 30 year old project type car or one in this kind of shape isn't alarming, see it enough without red flags of theft, just careless owner(s).


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#1054366 - 11/12/17 07:28 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: PB86SS/87LS]  
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upflying Offline
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Originally Posted by PB86SS/87LS
No VIN? How can you tell, pic is a bit fuzzy looking that close. No title for a 30 year old project type car or one in this kind of shape isn't alarming, see it enough without red flags of theft, just careless owner(s).

OP's Buddy went and actually looked at it and saw the missing VIN.
Car is sold so no telling where it is now.
Missing VIN is always a red flag. Seller couldn't sell it to a wrecker with no vin or title..so he sold it on Criminalslist.
That car could be resurrected as a re-vin as a clown car with 32" wheels.

Last edited by upflying; 11/12/17 07:33 PM.

86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, column shift, silver with maroon bench interior

#1054369 - 11/12/17 11:43 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: gmachinz]  
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gmachinz Offline
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Everybody locally who knows me always lets me know about cars like this that pop up sometimes...but I didnt hear about it until it was on CL for 4 days already. When a buddy texted me about, I thought yeah right from 4 days ago? Its prolly gone already but I called the ad anyway. Only reply I got was "its sold". So I called some other Monte guys andbtalked to a guy who looked at it an hour after it posted. I asked why the hell didnt you let me know about it if you passed on it? He said with a missing VIN I knew you wouldnt want it either. He's right about that....unless theres a very good reason to remove it....Id see it as a parts car. So....I'm thinking possibly somebody could steal a really nice Aero Monte and put their VIN on it with a matching title. So everybody be on the aware of this-all around seems fishy to me.


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#1054371 - 11/13/17 01:18 AM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: gmachinz]  
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Well a missing or tampered with VIN is a big red flag, of course. Missing title by itself isn't to me, depends on circumstances. Just wondering how you knew. Could it of been a once stolen and rebranded/rebuilt car? Some states issue a new VIN on the door or elsewhere if the original VIN was tampered with.

In talking to some people over the years there are those who are ok swapping VIN's without much concern. Not on a hot car necessarily but if missing title, or wrecked, etc. Not good reasons and eyebrow raising, but people are out there and as the years go on, unfortunately some of those cars around.

Missing VIN I don't know if it's worth touching even as a parts car unless you can be pretty confident nothing was stolen, just a dumb owner.

Last edited by PB86SS/87LS; 11/13/17 01:18 AM.

-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42 -313/344@RW - 13.35 @103
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42 -248/340@RW - 14.55 @ 96
-88'SS 350 CCC QJet - CZF 2004r-7.5" 3.73 Winter Beater/Future Parts Car?
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
[Linked Image]
#1054383 - 11/13/17 02:52 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: gmachinz]  
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Since I was an auto theft investigator, I was always taught VIN's are like DNA and finger prints to us humans. A VIN should NEVER be removed, touched, altered or molested for any reason. Yes, some stolen and recovered cars are found with missing VIN's. All states should have a process of applying a state issued replacement VIN to such vehicles. In California, those replacement VINs were known as "blue tags" and were riveted to the drivers door jamb under the B-pillar by a CHP auto theft investigator. This occurred only after the secondary VIN was located and verified.
Yes, I know some owners of junk rust buckets with a clean title will remove the VIN and put the VIN on another car in better condition. That is called VIN switching and it is NEVER acceptable.
If a car is seen with a missing VIN, the reason is almost always nefarious.
I agree, cars without titles is not a big deal. But the VIN better be there and DMV stolen records should be checked to confirm the vehicle isn't hot.
20 years ago, G-bodies were in the top 10 of most common stolen vehicles.
You can check the stolen status of any VIN through:
https://www.nicb.org/

Last edited by upflying; 11/13/17 03:01 PM.

86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, column shift, silver with maroon bench interior

#1054387 - 11/13/17 07:44 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: gmachinz]  
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Mick Offline
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upflying, question for you at least I would think you have knowledge

how long are stolen records kept via the police dept or highway patrol or dmv. I'm thinking 30-40 years ago things were done on paper. did all those get transitioned into computer form? that would be a lot of man power for something that maybe gone forever
the ones that are computer kept, who keeps those records for ever?


Always looking for New old stock parts
#1054389 - 11/13/17 08:10 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: Mick]  
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Originally Posted by Mick
upflying, question for you at least I would think you have knowledge

how long are stolen records kept via the police dept or highway patrol or dmv. I'm thinking 30-40 years ago things were done on paper. did all those get transitioned into computer form? that would be a lot of man power for something that maybe gone forever
the ones that are computer kept, who keeps those records for ever?

Stolen records are kept for 7 yrs in a California state database called CLETS, I think it's longer in the national archive called NCIC. There is an insurance database called iso.claimsearch where stolen records are kept forever.
I've recovered old, long forgotten stolens that were missing for 20 years that showed clear in CLETS but came up hot in iso.claimsearch. These long lost stolens were VIN switches and required finding the secondary VIN to identify them. I got suspicious because the wrong rivets were used on the VIN plate under the windshield.
CHP occasionally finds '66 Corvettes that were stolen in 1971. These cars changed ownership many times before they are discovered.

Last edited by upflying; 11/13/17 08:13 PM.

86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, column shift, silver with maroon bench interior

#1054393 - 11/13/17 08:55 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: gmachinz]  
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Mick Offline
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awesome thanks, good info....one last one because i'm curious more then anything......on the 66 vette as example, the car is recovered, it would go back to insurance company if they owner had insurance correct? if no insurance claim and it was simply the owner reporting the car stolen, and the owner is now deceased, does the car then get sent to auction?


Always looking for New old stock parts
#1054395 - 11/13/17 10:33 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: Mick]  
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Originally Posted by Mick
awesome thanks, good info....one last one because i'm curious more then anything......on the 66 vette as example, the car is recovered, it would go back to insurance company if they owner had insurance correct? if no insurance claim and it was simply the owner reporting the car stolen, and the owner is now deceased, does the car then get sent to auction?

Correct, the insurance company (f insured) owns the unrecovered stolen car. If recovered, the ins co gets it. Once you are paid by the insurance co, you give the title to them.
If uninsured, the person who reported it stolen gets it. If the owner is deceased, it ends up in probate through the owners estate or trust.
These long lost stolens are often in better condition than when they were stolen.
Last year there was an auction here in Reno. One of the cars I looked at was a '68 Dodge Dart that was titled as a '69. The rivets were wrong on the VIN tag too. It had a blown Hemi and was high quality build. You can't flip VIN's like that. What happened to the '68 VIN? I was going to call Reno PD but the average patrol cop has no experience with this kind of stuff. I blew it off but it bothered me.

Last edited by upflying; 11/13/17 10:40 PM.

86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, column shift, silver with maroon bench interior

#1054396 - 11/13/17 10:45 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: gmachinz]  
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86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, column shift, silver with maroon bench interior

#1054407 - 11/14/17 05:57 AM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: gmachinz]  
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gmachinz Offline
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You have some excellent information on this topic thats for sure upflying!


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#1054410 - 11/14/17 02:39 PM Re: Anybody missing an 87 Aero? [Re: gmachinz]  
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Originally Posted by gmachinz
You have some excellent information on this topic thats for sure upflying!

Thanks it was my passion but I'm retired now. I used to teach auto theft recognition and awareness to other cops. I earned a lot of awards for the recoveries I found and I shared my secrets with other LEO's.. Much of it was due to my hobby in cars. Cars are often a reflection of their owner and when that reflection doesn't match the driver, I got suspicious. It's very subtle observations that most people don't see.
Unfortunately California laws have decriminalized property crimes so thieves steal with impunity in that state.

Last edited by upflying; 11/14/17 02:41 PM.

86 MCSS Notchback coupe, LS3, 4L65E, column shift, silver with maroon bench interior


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