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#1053238 - 09/06/17 02:04 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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FrankOC Offline
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popcorn


84 - Stock
85 - ZZ383, 6-speed
#1053242 - 09/06/17 04:24 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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I'll let a hint out, pay particular attention to pages 82, 97 and 99 of Ron Sutton's new catalog...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053322 - 09/10/17 02:44 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Stuff is about to get real... laugh

[Linked Image]


Everyone knows I've needed a brake upgrade on Barney for years...MANY years in fact.

Ever since finding out about Ron Sutton developing a kit to adapt Stoptech brake kits onto Pro-Touring cars, I've known that's what I wanted for Barney. I only want to do this once and I want to do it right!!

The issue causing the long delay in installing them was there isn't a kit available to adapt the brakes to the stock G-body metric spindles I currently have on the car. I spent SO much time dialing in the front end geometry and the steering based on these stock spindles, I was hesitatant to just install another set of spindles...knowing what it would take to keep the geometry optimized. What you see in the picture above is everything that I'll need to use to dial the geometry back to (and hopefully even better than) what I currently run.

This is no small undertaking but with Ron's guidance, some perseverance, and probably a few choice four letter words...I hope to have the new spindles installed in the next week or so.

Then... THEN... We can get around to upgrading the brakes to the best brake kit out on the market... Stoptechs...

I can't wait!!!


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053330 - 09/10/17 10:44 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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That's cool Lance.

Will you run a carbon fiber rotors too? And what diameter rotor will you have?

I got side tracked on the SS. I have the Trans am on the rotisserie with the new drive train ready. So I will speedtech that one with the coil overs and AFX spindles as it's already in process. Plus I can run their torque arm set up out back for the gen 2 F body.

Last edited by 1 Slow SS; 09/10/17 10:49 PM.

1986 Monte Carlo SS LS3 build almost running. NOT.....LOL
I will rebuild the car and up the bar a bit,Speed tech, frame work and a bigger LSX.
#1053331 - 09/11/17 12:56 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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No, no Carbon fiber here...just 14" rotors front and back.

Your pour SS, always the bridesmaid, never the bride... laugh


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053332 - 09/11/17 01:01 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Originally Posted by SSLance
No, no Carbon fiber here...just 14" rotors front and back.

Your pour SS, always the bridesmaid, never the bride... laugh


LOL



'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1053333 - 09/11/17 01:06 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Originally Posted by Onebadbowtie86
Originally Posted by SSLance
No, no Carbon fiber here...just 14" rotors front and back.

Your pour SS, always the bridesmaid, never the bride... laugh


LOL


I like that, good one....lol


1986 Monte Carlo SS LS3 build almost running. NOT.....LOL
I will rebuild the car and up the bar a bit,Speed tech, frame work and a bigger LSX.
#1053336 - 09/11/17 12:31 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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WB of NOLA Online content
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Damn it man!. That looks like some serious work. I'll have to stop reading your post for a bit.


1987 Monte Carlo SS
5.3l/4l60E
One Wheel Peel
#1053347 - 09/11/17 06:07 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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That Adjustable center link is really, really interesting. Are you still running the factory box?


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, LS3 cam and valvesprings, stainless long tube headers, Microsquirt ECU, Built 200-4R, B&M Megashifter, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build thread: http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/126188-SSLOW6-0-Build
#1053417 - 09/16/17 11:05 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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[Linked Image]


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053430 - 09/17/17 09:59 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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I just can't stop staring at them...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Rotors, calipers and spindles with steering arms reversed all fit beautifully...tons of room everywhere. The dropped adjustable centerlink would not clear the triangulation brace mounting pad and the tie rods ended up being about 2" too short because we flipped the steering arms out to get more ackerman. Longer tie rods are on the way and then I'll get the bumpsteer adjusted and head on to the rear brakes.

Huge thanks to "Ronstar" for being available for several calls along the way today. Just try to reach any other parts supplier or suspension specialist multiple times on a Sunday afternoon!!!


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053434 - 09/18/17 01:40 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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What a work of art! Every thing looks great Lance!



'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1053435 - 09/18/17 02:26 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Thanks! I'm not gonna lie, it's freaking me out just a bit to be working with these! Still haven't got used to the idea that they are MINE...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053437 - 09/18/17 04:45 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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If you think it's more than you want to do you can ship those boxes to me and I'll find a home. Spent Sat at Cecil County Raceway for the East Coast Buick Event.
http://www.magnabuick.com/events/show/. Saw several 18" black mesh wheels that would work well with those 14" fronts.
Also must have seen a hundred black G-bodies in the show field, gotta love those GS Stage One cars too. Made 5 passes on the 86, time to give up drag racing.

Always wanted a set of those spindles, think they are the only way to go. I'd have to bolt together the spindles and brakes, set them on the bench so I could droll over them for a month first.

Lots of different chassis parts venders have sold various slugged centerlinks for many years for the G platform, mostly the roundy-round guys used them. It was just another part they could tune on.

Keep the pic coming. I'm really interested to see how the bump and Ackerman turn out. Don't forget to check both sides.
Bob

#1053441 - 09/18/17 01:12 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Just extended out my old tie rods with Baer Bump steer kit on them and they stretch out to 20.5" and I only needed about 19.5" each side...so it looks like I can reinstall them and continue forward. Woot...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053449 - 09/18/17 10:36 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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That looks real good Lance. thumbs


1986 Monte Carlo SS LS3 build almost running. NOT.....LOL
I will rebuild the car and up the bar a bit,Speed tech, frame work and a bigger LSX.
#1053451 - 09/19/17 02:45 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Thanks!!

Front is done except bleeding and greasing some weeks. Onto the rears in the morning. Ended up not using centerlink or new tie rods, all my old steering gear worked out better.

Pics later...Im tired...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053454 - 09/19/17 02:35 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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The main part of the difficulty of this brake swap was the swapping of the spindles to a spindle that would take the brake package. We had the front end geometry pretty dang good with the stock metric spindle but in order to bolt these fabulous Stoptech brakes on, a spindle change was necessary. Because of a tight time frame for install, I told Ron I needed a spindle with the least amount of changes necessary to get the geometry back to or better than I had before, he chose the ATS tall.

Basically the ATS is a 1" drop spindle that is also 1" taller than the G body spindle. To compensate for the 1" drop, Ron had me change my tall lower ball joints for ones 1" shorter.

[Linked Image]

This was not only super simple, but also put the lower control arms in exactly the same spot as before so I didn't have to adjust ride height after the swap. I'm sure he'll say it was for geometry reasons but whatever. laugh

So the spindle is in, ride height same as it was before, now it was time to work on the steering. The ATS comes with a modular steering arm that is curved as it extends away from the spindle. Instructions say to mount it with the curve pointed toward the center of the car. Ron told me to swap them and mount it with the curve pointed out to increase the ackerman. Ron also sent me a new slug adjustable center link and all new rod ends and curved tie rods to try to optimize the steering geometry. Unfortunately, my crossmember has a nub sticking out to attach the triangulation brace to which was in the way of the new centerlink.

[Linked Image]

With the steering arms pointed out, that meant the tie rods needed to be about 2" longer...fortunately the bump steer kit I had before was able to extend the tie rods out far enough to reach. Everything clears with no interference anywhere and I was able to dial the bump steer back to close to previous specs very easily.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

https://youtu.be/eJhu8QOZvUU

Where I pause the lift is pretty close to ride height. From ride height to full bump it toes out about 3/16" and from ride height up it toes in just a touch if at all. Check out that camber gain though!!

In the interest of time once again, I called this good enough and moved forward with the rest of brake install. I'll revisit fine tuning the alignment specs when I have more time.

So spindles and steering locked in, time to install the calipers. Pretty straight forward here but couple of things I found interesting.

[Linked Image]

See that top left piston sticking out? I'm assuming it has a knock back spring behind it because when you push it in, it immediately starts to spring back out again. This made installing the brake pads interesting for sure. I finally figured out that a putty knife is a pretty good tool to use to hold the piston in while sliding the pads in place.

[Linked Image]

Here is the bridge reinstalled.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

One more thing, I had some questions about how much unsprung weight these huge rotors and calipers added...so I weighed the G-body spindle, caliper and rotor.

[Linked Image]

Then weighed the new Stopech 14" rotor, 6 piston ST60 caliper and ATS Spindle.

[Linked Image]

Virtually the exact same weight! All the added brake force with no added weight. Woot!!

Front is done except bleeding and greasing, I'm starting on the rear today. Wish me luck with the calipers fitting inside the frame rails. Today will either go pretty smooth, or stop in a hurry based on that.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053455 - 09/19/17 02:47 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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MC96 Offline
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I like that you can feed the pad in without pulling anything else apart, why wasnt that thought of 100 years ago lol

Ive got the adjustable center, we had a note in our system at motorstate that said it would interfere with the f41 brace bracket, I cut mine off and moved it down. My UMI bar had to go down to clear the sway bar tube anyways. Right now on my car I have some dirt modified bent tie rods, thinking that I might need the frame clearance. I didnt see on facebook if you had a bent one or not? Think there is any clearance issue at full compression?

[Linked Image]


I need to go to just the standard bent one (or maybe just a straight will work?) and a double adjuster in the middle right now my adjuster is right between the centerlink and the frame crossmember and there is no way to get a wrench to it, so it defeats the purpose.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1053456 - 09/19/17 03:11 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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I tried to put the curved tie rods on with double adjuster on centerlink side. Couple issues...first they were too short. that could be corrected with longer ones but I chose not too because the curve also put the centerlink side WAY too close to the cross member and it was basically impossible to put any kind of wrench on the jam nuts on the double adjuster. I also would have had to relocate my shock reservoir lines as the curved tie rods would have gotten into them as well.

My Baer bumpsteer kit extended way out and I had plenty of clearance everywhere so there really was no need to put a curved rod on anyway.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053458 - 09/19/17 03:38 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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MC96 Offline
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Gotcha, I thought of also running a very short bent one and putting a male/male adjuster in the middle of it probably right under the frame horn and a short straight one to the crossmember, but from the sounds of things I might not need any of it.

I think for the adjustable centerlink a piece that doesn't curve inward to meet the crossmember would be more ideal, then just shim a stand off for the inner tie rod to mate to, this would also be an ackerman adjustment and might even clear the F41 brace. Im guessing it goes in to clear a stock harmonic balancer maybe?


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1053459 - 09/19/17 03:45 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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I think if you really wanted to dial the steering in, the F41 brace mount pad has to go. Things get pretty tight in there in a hurry...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053460 - 09/19/17 04:04 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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MC96 Offline
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I had already destroyed the box the UMI brace came in so there was no returning it. Figured Id make it work, With my sway bar tube as tight as I can get to the frame I had to space the front of the brace down 1/2 inch and the back bracket down about 3/4. Probably shouldve just welded something in solid but oh well.


How's the wife letting you get away with all the Monte stuff in the middle of the move? Any tips lol?


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1053464 - 09/19/17 06:12 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: MC96]  
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Originally Posted by MC96

How's the wife letting you get away with all the Monte stuff in the middle of the move? Any tips lol?


lol... I saved up chips for a LONG time for this upgrade!! Really though, it came down to timing. I had a small window to get it done while I still had a shop, then it was going to be another 6 months before I get a shop again. So it was now or a long time from now. I chose now...

The car absolutely HAS to roll out of the shop under it's own power by Friday though, no ifs ands or butts about it. I think I'll make it though.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053466 - 09/19/17 06:47 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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[Linked Image]


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
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