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#1049596 - 04/04/17 08:56 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Any update on the project? You have me to the point of figuring out where the can goes and how to plumb it with what materials. There a plastic can 3x9 taped to the master cyl so I can visualize how to hide the plumbing, get the hose out of sight. Thanks.
Have done a lot of reading on this, scrutinizing installs, I'll be into this project soon. Never really gave the collection thing a lot of thought before. As my engine gets a little older each year the need to catch the junk becomes more important. Recirculating the collected oil back to the crankcaswe isn't an option. On a street engine there is a lot of water and other not good for the engine junk in there. I would think the oil in the pan will stay cleaner using a can.
My WOT bursts are shortlived at the drags, less than 15 seconds, at the autox you're only talking a total of 4 minutes for the day in 2nd gear.

Another thing that has plagued me for years was seapage at the rear main seal. To much trouble to remove the engine to get to the seal, it's a 2 piece seal engine. One of the things that happens at WOT is crankcase pressure go up, for me this is another reason to do a can to see if the seepage slows down with lower pressure in the pan. We'll see if that happens.
Bob

#1049598 - 04/04/17 09:14 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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I was out of town last week, just got home and found a box from Mighty Mouse solutions sitting on my counter. Still haven't opened it...

I know I have to come up with some sort of contraption to plumb from pass side VC to bottom of breather, probably going to modify my existing breather by blocking the holes in the bottom of it and tapping the side for a barb to fit a 3/8s line on. I'll get to all this in a day or so...and will keep you posted.

I think there are a lot of people that do not handle this issue correctly and there are a lot of misconceptions about blow by in general. Hopefully we are on the right rack and will see positives once new systems are installed.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1049631 - 04/05/17 01:36 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Brake booster bracket

[Linked Image]

Can up to bracket

[Linked Image]

It fits well there but I'm not too crazy about it hanging right over the top of a header. I'm going to look around a bit more today to see if I can make the bracket work somewhere up around the core support. I'm less concerned about hiding it and the lines to it and more concerned about ease of checking sight window and draining oil out of the can.

The can is a VERY nice piece for sure...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1049764 - 04/08/17 07:48 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Alright, 90% of this project is installed and operational. All I'm waiting for is the Pass side breather I ordered to show up so I can plumb it to the bottom of the air cleaner, for now I've just got the old open breather on that side.

Here's the can hanging off the airbox right behind the headlight.

[Linked Image]

The 3/8s lines running from the can to the now gutted PCV breather on the valve cover and manifold vacuum port on bottom of carb.

[Linked Image]

And I can even see the site glass by looking under the core support by the charcoal canister...

[Linked Image]


This setup is pretty sweet, here are a few pictures of the top of the can, inside the breather top and even inside the recirc top for you to see as well.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

There is a check disc inside both the open breather and the recirc top that lets air flow out if needed but when vacuum is put on the can it seals the top off.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

If any questions just ask away, I think I now have a handle on how all this works and can't wait to try it out under sustained WOT applications...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1049807 - 04/11/17 01:45 AM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Have been doing a lot of reading and looking at other companies cans. Never realized all the new design engines had so many problems with oil dumping down the intake. If it has a supercharger or turbo, even the Ecoboost, BMW, Hemi, stock LS, and anything with direct injection, there are issues. Thanks to Lance for opening up my eye to keeping the oil out of the intake, and in the crankcase.
In the old days you just ran a big breather in each valve cover, who cared if some oil got on the valve cover. For the most part a stock PVC system will do ok for 98% of the time on anything mildly modified. Never gave it much thought about the bigger the cubic inch the more air is moving around in the crankcase, the higher the compression, the richer it runs, the higher the rpm, the longer high rpm is sustained, many factor come into play. The stock PVC system on a SBC and most all engine is now at it's 50th birthday, I believe it was 1967 when it became a Federal law. Time to update it to something better.

Some of the implied improvements a catch can will make on most any hot rod I'm not sure of, increase fuel mileage, more hp. But a cleaner intake, cleaner intake valves, removal of water vapor and blowby gases that are not good for the engine's oil, this make sense.

Of the hundred + different cans available there are 4 or 5 that stand out, each different in their own way. The MM can is at the top of that short list unless something better turns up. I like it's versatility, the fact it's black anodized, it can be configured several ways, it's an easy to take apart, size, and it's pretty, price point isn't a consideration.

Here's a cool video of how a German company make a catch can, in 8 different sizes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkNand6EiFM

Here's 22 pages of info on that system, interesting.
https://www.mann-hummel.com/fileadmin/user_upload/service/catalogues/pdf/ProVent_en_2013.pdf

The above system and several factory type systems return what was collected in the catch can back to the crankcase. After seeing how much could be collected in a catch can over a few thousands miles of normal driving, then letting it settle out to show what is in there, I'd rather not return that junk to the oilpan. I rather give it to the guy that burn drains oil to heat his shop.
Bob

#1049811 - 04/11/17 02:18 AM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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lol at Bob, me too...

I fixed the pass side breather tonight. I thought I'd try another PCV over there gutted and plumbed to the air cleaner but it was too difficult to restrict the flow on...so I looked at the open breather I had there originally and came up with an idea.

[Linked Image]

I cut a piece of rubber gasket material with a piece of copper pipe and poked a small hole in it with a leather awl...and put it in the center of the breather making it just about as hard to suck air through as the Mighty Mouse PCV.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

This should give the system the intake restriction it needs to make the MM can setup work as designed. It's all on the car and ready to be tested...I'll update once I get some miles on it.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1049819 - 04/11/17 04:47 AM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Neat idea.
Watched several videos on restricting that flow, I know I will be playing around with the clean air restriction size. I don't have all the pieces to the can puzzle yet, sourcing some parts to do the venting yet. Still looking at the front of the master location with the consideration of keeping the hoses as short as possible. The reasoning is long hose are more restrictive than a shorter hose of equal size. For the same reason that as hp goes up you need to flow more volume, larger hose. Kinda the rule of thumb seems to be is you can get away with 3/8 up to 600 hp. Most all the 3/8" installs I see the cans are located very close to the original PVC valve. Just something to think about

A thought, to test your system it would seems a good place to check vacuum would be at the dipstick tube. Been kicking that around and will do some testing there before I do anything. As long as the tube end isn't submerged that should be crankcase vac at it's best. Tune the restriction accordingly.

Something else, engine idle vac should increase, not much but maybe 1". Idle speed may need adjusted. I would hope this happens as the stock PVC is a huge vac bleed at idle as it is. More vac at idle is a good thing.
Bob

#1049855 - 04/12/17 01:22 AM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Ran a few tests on the stock PVC system today. With the clean air inlet plugged with a vac gauge, idling, the clean air side shows a max of 7" of vac. With the vac gauge checking the vac at the PVC valve open end there was 15", but that was expected, very close to intake vac. With the valve removed and the left open sucking air the A/F at idle remained almost the same, 13.8, odd as you were adding a lot more air to the intake below the throttle plates, should have leaned the idle mixture just a little. Blocking the valve port with your figure, no vac loss now, the A/F dropped to about 13.5, richened , idle speed dropped a little. I should have had my other vac gauge reading manifold vac during these test to see how it varied. Once a new can system is installed that restricts the flow through the crankcase I expect that the idle mixture and speed will need to be adjusted to compensate for less engine vac loss. From what I understand 7" vac at idle on the clean side is way to much, 2" is more like it. Just enough to keep a little vac there, the new can's valve is then tuned to arrive at that 2". \

Can't wait to hear how much junk you collect in the next couple weeks.
Bob

#1049993 - 04/15/17 09:15 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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David said when at warm idle I should just have a bit of vacuum at the breather on the can. With the breather pulled, I can't really feel vacuum with my hand but a piece of tissue confirms there is just a bit of vacuum pulling through the breather. I flushed the cooling system several times today and finished up a few other odds and ends...then beat on the car for a bit after several road tests. I lost 150 RPM at idle... laugh Which is fantastic as the car has always idled fast. Now it idles at a rock steady 810-830 RPM instead of the 970-1020 RPM. No sign of oil out the pass side breather yet, big test will be track day Thursday night.

Here's a little video of me testing out my other favorite off season upgrade. Anyone guess what it is...?

https://youtu.be/AmerrpIqFDo

I'll update how the catch can did after Track Night in America on the newly paved Heartland Park Topeka road course Thursday.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1050009 - 04/16/17 03:55 AM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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I need to get a catch can, been meaning to since I did my ls swap.

I'm guessing you got a new shifter?




'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1050017 - 04/16/17 12:06 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Nope, same shifter as slways....

I got a remote microphone for my GoPro that picks up the exhaust note much better....


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1050018 - 04/16/17 01:15 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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Nice, it does sound great!




'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1050019 - 04/16/17 02:43 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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Lance, all your work is meant to have fun AND taunt us.... A two-fer..... Keep it coming!

#1050026 - 04/16/17 04:12 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Jason from what I've been researching on cans your car would benefit from one. It seems a lot of the new engines have issues with oil ingested into the intake, high output LS, anything with a supercharger or turbo, and especially anything with direct injection.
I'm in the process of doing the MM can, partly to just see how much junk it collects in all seasons of the year, partly to see if the claims of slight hp and mpg are true, partly to see if the oil stays cleaner, and partly to see if it reduces seepage past the crankcase seals. All are supposed to be advantages of cans.
From all my reading there are but a few cans that do a very good job of removing most all the junk, the MM reviews are very favorable. And MM has way more options for plumbing various install. When I buy a can it will be the MM.

Being I'm under the hood often and the car is just a toy, checking what is collected will be done probably more often than necessary. Only putting 2K a year on the car it may take a while to get a "dump" bottle full of junk. But it will be interesting to see what is collected after it settles out in another container. From videos I've watched there are several layers, water, oil and other stuff between the layers. Just seems like a good idea to not ingest that back into the engine.

Not doing road course events, but drag racing and autox and all to often blasts on the back roads I'm leaning toward the "shorty" MM which can't have a oil level sight glass due to being short. Where I would install the can seeing the sight glass would be difficult, but draining it would be easy, and it would be drained often. Also want to hide the system as much as possible, being the MM is black anodized helps. Did I mention it one of the sweetest looking cans on the market, and is easily taken apart. Most cans are welded up units, you can't take them apart. Also most of the cans available are nothing more than a can with an in and out, nothing inside, the MM has a lot to thought going into it internals, and the in and out can be reversed to allow various plumbing installs, nice.
Bob

#1050056 - 04/17/17 12:53 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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We'll have a better feel on the HP pickup from the catch can Thurs afternoon, but Barney sure "felt" it had a bit more pep in his step on our little cruises Sat...

I know it idles way better, more stable and comes back to the same idle level each time now...which it hasn't done in forever. I'm assuming my old crankcase ventilation setup was like a large vacuum leak some times and completely capped off at other times contributing to the unstable idle qualities...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1050059 - 04/17/17 02:09 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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I'll look into ordering a mm catch can. I only have a few hundred miles on my new FAST102 intake and the insides covered with oil.

Off topic, but what did you ever do with your gto seats Lance?




'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1050062 - 04/17/17 02:56 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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A fellow MCSSer had dibs on them and snarfed them right up once I made the decision to go with the Recaros...

From what I hear he's winning car shows left and right once he got them installed... wink


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1050067 - 04/17/17 06:18 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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The RX can is another top choice, http://www.rxspeedworks.com/. Mondooti, Matt installed a Tracy Lewis can on his on his Edel supercharged LS install, I believe the RX and Lewis cans are the same cans, just different logo. Lewis and RX are just a stones throw from each other in FL.
http://tracylewisperformance.com/product-category/catchcans/

Here's Matt's install of the can on his car.
http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1046024&page=7

The MM, RX and Lewis cans would be the top of my list.
A nice feature that the LS guys have is the availability of the nice clean side filter that screws into the oil fill hole in the valve cover.
Bob

#1050069 - 04/17/17 06:45 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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Originally Posted by SSLance
A fellow MCSSer had dibs on them and snarfed them right up once I made the decision to go with the Recaros...

From what I hear he's winning car shows left and right once he got them installed... wink



I would love to do some seats like those in my car for a comfort stand point. I had Black gto seats from my donor car but sold them because they were too nice to re cover, The stock seats get pretty uncomfortable for me if I drive more then an hour or so.




'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1050070 - 04/17/17 06:45 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Originally Posted by mmc427ss
The RX can is another top choice, http://www.rxspeedworks.com/. Mondooti, Matt installed a Tracy Lewis can on his on his Edel supercharged LS install, I believe the RX and Lewis cans are the same cans, just different logo. Lewis and RX are just a stones throw from each other in FL.
http://tracylewisperformance.com/product-category/catchcans/

Here's Matt's install of the can on his car.
http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1046024&page=7

The MM, RX and Lewis cans would be the top of my list.
A nice feature that the LS guys have is the availability of the nice clean side filter that screws into the oil fill hole in the valve cover.
Bob



Thanks Bob, I will look into those




'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1050118 - 04/18/17 11:48 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Last night started to fab the bracket to mount the can to the master cyl. Changed my mind, going with the tall MM with the sight glass, I will be able to squeeze it in next to the master cyl.

Today got sidetracked. The 4.3L Vortec in my 95 Astro decided it was going to provide a self cleaning cycle on #6 plug via a head gasket leak. This will be third time doing head gaskets, I SWORE after doing this job the second time I would NEVER do it again. You pretty much lay on the front seats, under the dash, to get to the gaskets. I can't afford to have the 4.3 hydro-lock, or leave me stranded along the highway with a plume of steam pouring out the tailpipe, been there, done that. But here I am again. First two times it was #5, this time it's a perfectly clean plug pulled from #6. Both times before heads surfaced, new head bolts, seals, Fel Pro gaskets.
Just can't believe I've doing this again. So the 86 is now the daily driver until the weekend. The can project has moved to simmer on the back burner for a week.
Bob

#1050128 - 04/19/17 03:56 AM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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It must be all the pollen in the air now that the weather is getting nice again. All three of my vehicles are having reactions to the nice weather. I ordered an ABS harness for the left front of the 02 SS, a common failure, was going to do that install on Sat. Well then the Astro decides it's going to sneeze out coolant and became the priority. So I brought the black 86 home as my daily driver so it could get covered with pollen. Stopped to get a cup of coffee on the way back to the shop to tear into the Astro, go to restart it, dead as a door nail. While waiting for a jump from the boy pulled the headlight switch ON, got bright lights. Hit the ign switch, click, everything is dead again. Hmmm. Check for loose wires at the starter, battery, good. Several try to jump it, no good. Finally removed the ground from the battery, fired right up, drove it back to the house. Will put a meter on it in the morning but thinking the battery is shorted, only 2 years old.

It's an Exide NASCAR Extreme. Bought 4 of them in the past 6 or so years, two of them had to be replaced due to case leaking, looks like I now have a third one with issues. Going to NAPA in the morning, they sell Deca at my local parts house, no more Exides for me. Would like to go to an AGM like the Odyssey PC1230 but can't justify the cost unless I was doing a trunk install.

Did I mention i don't like working on car anymore.

Lance sorry about the hijack, just needed to vent. I should be hacking out a bracket for the catch can and waiting on an MM to arrive, instead I'll be hacking up my hand pulling heads on an Astro.
Bob

#1050134 - 04/19/17 11:50 AM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Well, look on the bright side Bob. At least you didn't spend 8 hours yesterday trying to get your trailer brakes functional...only to end the day with them not working once again after you tied all of the brand new wires up to the frame.

Anyone want to buy a nice trailer...CHEAP!!!


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1050192 - 04/21/17 05:13 AM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Hopefully the trailer got you to the track OK today.

Heads are off the Astro today, a slow torture. Gasket failure at #5 again, not #6 as I suspected. But not in the lower corner like previous two times, up at about 2 o'clock, hmmm. Not much gasket between the coolant passage and the fire ring there. Even though Fel Pro doesn't recommend any sprays on any of their gaskets I may copper coat them this time. What do I have to loose.

86 is fixed, the presumption is internal bad connection between positive side terminal and cell. One minute I would have 12.3 at the battery posts, car would start, a few minute later try again, nothing. Check battery voltage at posts, zero. Played with the connections, still the same problem. Trashed the 2 year old Exide and installed a Deka. Numerous starts today no problems, even the battery voltage is up, 12.6, and running voltage at the battery is 14.5. Hopefully that will end that problem.
Bob

#1050200 - 04/21/17 03:00 PM Re: Need input on crankcase evacuation remedies [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Had a blast at the track last night, pics and videos will be posted soon.

Here's what I drained out of the MightyMouse catch can this morning after (3) 20 minute sessions on track at mostly WOT.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Just maybe an ounce or two of gassy smelling water with not even a hint of oil residue on the underside of the breather on the passenger side. Not only that but the engine didn't use or leak a drop of engine oil either. I'm VERY happy with the results of this mod. Not only did it cure a long standing idle problem by blocking a basically wide open vacuum leak but it also fixed the oil mess and usage problems the engine had before.

Here's a video of a single lap from session 3, will have the whole session video posted soon with a better update.

https://youtu.be/GdXBultZxaY


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
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