MonteCarloSS.com
MonteCarloSS.com

CELEBRATING 20 YEARS!

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#939652 - 07/19/12 07:45 AM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: MAP]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 868
Bad Co Offline
Member
Bad Co  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 868
Earth
How are drop spindles simpler/easier to install than drop springs? There is a lot more involved in swapping spindles than springs.

#939655 - 07/19/12 09:38 AM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: Bad Co]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,694
84supersport Offline
Member
84supersport  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,694
Louisville, KY
I would guess spindles are easier because all you have to do is put the car on jack stands, put a floor jack under the lower control arm to support it, remove the caliper and rotor, pop the ball joints and tie rods, remove spindle, and reverse. To do springs you have to do all that plus lower the control arm and swap the springs out. I've never seen someone remove the inner control arm bolts like was mentioned by someone else.

Either way, on a vehicle over twenty years old like these, you need to look at the rubber parts in the front end as well. If not when you go to get it aligned they might turn you away anyway because they can not align a vehicle with wore out suspension.

Yes, Performance, the guy at the alignment shop was not happy when I brought a car up there with 3" drop springs plus new balljoints, upper/lower control arm bushings, inner/outer tie rods, center link, idler arm, sway bar end links, and sway bar bushings. It took him over a hour to get it aligned. I wish I would've known about the taller balljoints and how they help the suspension. I would've gotten those and 2" drop springs instead.

Cost wise, I think drop spindles run you around $150-200. I paid $200 for my springs if I recall. There is no right way or wrong way of doing it, just different ways. Ok, I guess taking a torch to the springs is not a 'right' way.


84 Monte SS stolen September 2012. 077 DFE Jefferson County KY plate. $2500 reward. Vortec headed 350ci, th350, 3:73 limited slip cast aluminum cover, Autometer gauges, Pro-Stick, 2.5" fiberglass hood.



Matt
#939699 - 07/19/12 08:11 PM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: 84supersport]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,334
MAP Offline
15+ Year
MAP  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,334
Yuma, AZ
Hi Folks,

84 brings up a very good point about using tall BJ's to raise the front roll center height and lower the front ride height (if the lower BJ's are involved.)

About the springs, simply cutting the OE springs might be sufficient to accomplish the drop and increase stiffness at the same time. If so, the cost of buying new springs could be obviated.

I also agree that if there's any question about the condition of the OE BJ's or OE suspension bushings, or maybe you just want to substitute a different bushing material, that R&R'ing the springs can provide the perfect excuse to get these related things done too. In the past, I always combined these things into a complete front-end rebuild effort, because R&R'ing the springs is a job I like to do as infrequently as possible.

Best,
MAP


Last edited by MAP; 07/19/12 08:14 PM.
#939708 - 07/19/12 08:57 PM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: 84supersport]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 868
Bad Co Offline
Member
Bad Co  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 868
Earth
Originally Posted By: 84supersport
I would guess spindles are easier because all you have to do is put the car on jack stands, put a floor jack under the lower control arm to support it, remove the caliper and rotor, pop the ball joints and tie rods, remove spindle, and reverse. To do springs you have to do all that plus lower the control arm and swap the springs out. I've never seen someone remove the inner control arm bolts like was mentioned by someone else.


That was me, I've replaced my front springs twice with that method and it really is that easy. No messing with brakes, ball joints, tie rods...you can swap the springs in less than 30 minutes. If you look up front spring replacement in the Monte Carlo shop manual you will see it describes the same method.

#939740 - 07/20/12 09:18 AM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: Bad Co]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,694
84supersport Offline
Member
84supersport  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,694
Louisville, KY
How high did you have to get the car in order to lower the control arms enough to get the springs out? I have a harbor freight SUV jack and I don't see me being able to get the car high enough. I ask because I might be swapping my springs out for something with less drop while I'm living in the apartments I'm living in. Damn speed bumps are too tall. Can't get the car in the parking lot.


84 Monte SS stolen September 2012. 077 DFE Jefferson County KY plate. $2500 reward. Vortec headed 350ci, th350, 3:73 limited slip cast aluminum cover, Autometer gauges, Pro-Stick, 2.5" fiberglass hood.



Matt
#939764 - 07/20/12 02:43 PM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: 84supersport]  
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,209
SickSpeedMonte Offline
15+ Year
SickSpeedMonte  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,209
MD
Originally Posted By: 84supersport
I ask because I might be swapping my springs out for something with less drop while I'm living in the apartments I'm living in. Damn speed bumps are too tall. Can't get the car in the parking lot.


Ugh, I had the same problem for 2 years... I had to drive over diagonally and go VERY slow to keep it from dragging. I waved more than a couple cars around me while doing that lol.

#939787 - 07/20/12 06:38 PM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 868
Bad Co Offline
Member
Bad Co  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 868
Earth
I think it was around 18". Basically just as high as my crappy 2.5 ton autozone jack would go. I don't remember the height being a problem, you could probably do it with 15".

#939791 - 07/20/12 09:21 PM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: Bad Co]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,334
MAP Offline
15+ Year
MAP  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,334
Yuma, AZ
Hi Bad,

What you said two posts back really caught my eye, that R&R'ing the springs by undoing the frame bolts rather than the BJ's, is how the factory recommends doing it.

My fear was always that if I undid the frame bolts and the springs had any residual external load on them, that the whole LCA/spring/spindle/brake assembly might come loose and decide to make a beeline to Florida or some other horizontal direction, constrained only by the still-anchored UCA.

Likewise, that re-installation would require extreme spring compression otherwise lining-up the frame bolts would be an exercise in futility.

I'm curious to hear your observations about this, since if you do it the "other" way, you don't need as much spring compression to get the job done.

Thanks,
MAP

#939828 - 07/21/12 04:31 AM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: MAP]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 868
Bad Co Offline
Member
Bad Co  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 868
Earth
The shop manual recommends putting a chain around the spring and through the LCA for safety. If you do this there is no way the spring can fly out. I didn't have any chain so I used a rope.

I think removing the LCA bolts is actually safer than removing the spindle, since if the spring flies out it's going to be away from you to the other side of the car and not towards you.

Not sure what you mean by "residual external load". The only way to get the LCA to frame bolts out is with one or more jacks under the LCA bushings to take the pressure off. Once the bolts are out, you slowly lower the jack(s). Eventually the spring becomes completely uncompressed and just falls out.

Putting them back in is just the reverse. It does take a lot of spring compression but a 2-ton jack is more than enough. Like I said before if you've got two jacks, one under each bushing, it's pretty simple to line up the bolt holes since you can raise/lower each side independently.

#939861 - 07/21/12 07:50 PM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,694
84supersport Offline
Member
84supersport  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,694
Louisville, KY
Originally Posted By: SickSpeedMonte
Ugh, I had the same problem for 2 years... I had to drive over diagonally and go VERY slow to keep it from dragging. I waved more than a couple cars around me while doing that lol.


LOL, yeah I remember Gangsta Granny. I just keep mine at my Mom and Dad's house on the side driveway until I can buy a house. It's only a ten minute drive there but I'd like to be able to swap out vehicles on the weekend and enjoy my car more. I've really only been driving it to go to the cruises and back. I don't think going diagonally will get me over these. It's a dead stop when the headers catch. I'm thinking I'll put 2" springs in the front and then do the Stage 2 when I get my own garage.


84 Monte SS stolen September 2012. 077 DFE Jefferson County KY plate. $2500 reward. Vortec headed 350ci, th350, 3:73 limited slip cast aluminum cover, Autometer gauges, Pro-Stick, 2.5" fiberglass hood.



Matt
#940053 - 07/23/12 08:59 PM Re: Thinking about lowering the front end, difficulty? [Re: 84supersport]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,334
MAP Offline
15+ Year
MAP  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,334
Yuma, AZ
Thanks, Bad Co.

Good information. If I remember the factory manual correctly, dealers are supposed to use a special jig that grabs both inner ends of the LCA, so that a single jack can uniformly raise and lower the LCA.

A simple FBD of the LCA tells me that if we have roughly 900lb of upward force directed on the BJ mount of the LCA with the car's weight resting on the wheels, then we should see about the same upward force created by the two inner LCA mounting bolts. To relieve the reaction force on the bolts so that they can be pulled, the spring will have to be put under roughly 1,800lb of compression. Ditto for the reverse procedure.

On the other hand, if the car's frame is resting on jack stands with the suspension in full droop, then the spring and inner LCA bolt forces should be roughly halved compared to the previous condition, making this procedure much more feasible.

Bad Co, I think you (and I) have talked me into giving this method a try...

Best,
MAP


Last edited by MAP; 07/23/12 09:01 PM.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Random Images
500/thumbs/15.JPG
by Phifdawg
500/thumbs/IMG_4826.jpg
by T-TopGene
500/thumbs/birnamwoodshow_022.JPG
by Intmdatr3
500/thumbs/100_1610.jpg
by myfirstmontess
500/thumbs/Monte_Carlo_at_CCWD-14.jpg
by upflying
Help MonteCarloSS.com


Recent Contributors
86BlackSuperSport
dns87ss
Authorized Vendors
Tell them you saw it
on MonteCarloSS.com!


CustomMonteSSParts.com
Dixie Monte Carlo Depot
GSI Interiors
HRpartsNstuff
Mikes Montes
Savitske Classic & Custom
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0