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#874717 - 05/22/11 11:41 PM 305 cam  
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montecarloman90 Offline
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Looking to put a cam in my 87 monte carlo ss. what is the largest cam i can go with on the stock 305 to get that midle to rough idle?

#874720 - 05/22/11 11:54 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: montecarloman90]  
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Wudce Offline
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You still running the CCC system?


Stock 86 Monte SS
#874752 - 05/23/11 01:59 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: Wudce]  
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One of the first aftermarket things I did to my Monte was install a Crane 2050 Cam. I did get it because to computer but later did away with the comp system. Cam was nice. Gave slight old school muscle sound, little raspy at low idle, and definitely bit more power.

I know Comp makes some too that will work with and without CCC systems that others may chime in on.

No matter what you do, you may want to explore new springs and double roller chain when you do it. Oh and replace valve seals too.


1985 Monte Carlo SS 383MT Forced Induction
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2228046
2004 Dale Earnhardt Jr. Supercharged Monte Carlo SS
#874976 - 05/24/11 12:34 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: Ninja85SS]  
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montecarloman90 Offline
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not sure what the ccc is but everything on the car is stock

#874977 - 05/24/11 12:55 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: montecarloman90]  
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MC87SS Offline
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CCC is the computer controlled carburetor.
If yours is all original than the CCC system should still be intact.
If you plan to keep it that way then look at the compucams.


[Linked Image]
87 Monte SS / Black-Saddle T-Tops
85 Monte SS / Black-Gray T-Tops (Wifes Car)
SMCC Florida Chapter

#874978 - 05/24/11 01:13 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: MC87SS]  
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a comp XE262 or XE268 would be great in a 305. but not sure if it can work with the ccc system.


1988 monte carlo ss 408 sbc
-----------------------------------------------------
1984 monte carlo cs 400 sbc
#875159 - 05/24/11 05:57 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: 88ss408]  
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.. A rough idle is actually a bad dirty idle... if you have to pass emissions testing, such a cam would prolly fail... too much unburned fuel in the exhaust...

.. Racers put up with a rough idle to get high HP, but don't have to pass emissions...

.. Bigger cams also don't work well below 3,000 RPMs, and lower MPG... so not pleasant if you plan much daily street driving...

.. Comp XE262 218/224 and XE268 224/230 duration cams give up low RPM power and stock 305 heads can't make the high end power these cams want to make in exchange for low RPM power...

.. I'd suggest a Comp XE256 212/218, Lunati 60101 213/219 , or Summit #1103 214/224 as biggest for a stock 305... they'll give a little lope at idle, but still match up to a 305" and have enough vacuum for power brakes and computer to work... good overall drivability... and increase RPM range and HP when used with new Z28 valve springs or better...


'86 Monte LS (total'd Fall '2013), '87 GTA TransAm TPI350 TH700-R4, '85 Fiero 5-speed, '75 MG Midget Buick Alum.V8 BW 5-speed manual, '77 Pontiac Astre Formula wagon 5-speed posi, '78 F150 4WD 351"M ==> 400" C6, '79 Caddy Seville Olds EFI 350" TH400, 19' Slickcraft 425HP 351W MerCruiser I/O
#875532 - 05/26/11 02:43 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: BuzzLOL]  
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montecarloman90 Offline
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Does anyone have part numbers for the z28 valve springs?

#875570 - 05/26/11 07:19 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: montecarloman90]  
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Im going with the Comp XE262 218/224 or Crane cams 210/216 with a coyles gear rolling time set. Im not looking for a loppy idle. just a little pep in the step.lol with crispy smooth exhaust. never did like the sound off a muscle car acting like it wanted to shut off.lol I also would like a part number for valve springs. Might as well knock out the valve stems also.


1986 mcss. Bone stock 130,000 miles. 305HO, posi 3.73 gears 200R4 tranny
#875573 - 05/26/11 07:46 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: bryant86ss]  
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.. Comp or Crane(if still in existence/available) have suggested valve springs to match each cam grind...

.. 'Z28' springs are available from GM or for less from several aftermarket sources... generally they're any valve springs of stock 1.25" diameter coils with about a 90 - 110 lb. 'seat' pressure at stock 1.700" valve spring height and about 240 - 320 lbs. valve open pressure at about .450" - .520" valve lift... (stock base level Chevy springs are about 60 - 80 lb. seat and 200 - 240 lb. open)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-98214

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Howar...oductinfo/98111

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Premium-Quality-Stock-Replacement-Valve-Springs/products/50

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Valve-Seals-11_32-Set-of-16/productinfo/5100


'86 Monte LS (total'd Fall '2013), '87 GTA TransAm TPI350 TH700-R4, '85 Fiero 5-speed, '75 MG Midget Buick Alum.V8 BW 5-speed manual, '77 Pontiac Astre Formula wagon 5-speed posi, '78 F150 4WD 351"M ==> 400" C6, '79 Caddy Seville Olds EFI 350" TH400, 19' Slickcraft 425HP 351W MerCruiser I/O
#875594 - 05/26/11 12:08 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: BuzzLOL]  
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thanks buzz


1986 mcss. Bone stock 130,000 miles. 305HO, posi 3.73 gears 200R4 tranny
#875600 - 05/26/11 12:18 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: bryant86ss]  
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MY FYN 79 Offline
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Bryant, check out the Lunati cam also before you decide on the Comp or Crane.


~Jeremy~
79 Monte - Sold 5-11-13
Welcome Natalee Mae 3-16-12
[Linked Image]
#875618 - 05/26/11 01:28 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: BuzzLOL]  
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BadSS Offline
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Originally Posted By: bryant86ss
Im going with the Comp XE262 218/224 or Crane cams 210/216


How did you come to that pick? Those are very different cams. Larger duration on a tighter lobe spread vs smaller duration on a wider (too wide) lobe spread. You need to listen to Buzz and 79. If you're keeping a stock stall speed converter,, you probably won't like that 218/224 comp.

If you're wanting a decent idle and crisp throttle,, the Comp XE256 212/218 on a 110 spread is about as large as I'd go. The XE254 (4x4) 210/218 on a 111 is a little tamer than the 212/218 and similar to the Lunati 60101 213/219 on a 112,, either would work nicely.

The 210/216 Crane on a 114 will be "weak" compared to any of these,, and even compared to the 206/214-111 Comp 4x4.

#875678 - 05/26/11 07:09 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: BadSS]  
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See this is why i post things before i buy it. get advice from you experts. I was looking at the XE254 (4*4) 210/218 also. that one was in my wish list. Ill look into the lunati one also. Just didnt know much about there company.


1986 mcss. Bone stock 130,000 miles. 305HO, posi 3.73 gears 200R4 tranny
#875721 - 05/26/11 09:39 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: bryant86ss]  
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BuzzLOL Offline
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.. Comp seemed to take over from Crane in popularity... and Lunati seems to be taking over from Comp... the Summit cams are almost a steal for the price...

.. I like the Crane 210/216, if it's still available, good idle, flat torque curve, extended RPM range... HiTech cams had the same grind, don't know if their's is available, either, anymore... member Andy here used the little Crane 210/216 in his SBC 377" and 408" to run as fast as 12's in the 1/4...:

http://www.MonteSS.org/times.html

http://crane.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/15916/114132 (cam, lifters, & springs)


'86 Monte LS (total'd Fall '2013), '87 GTA TransAm TPI350 TH700-R4, '85 Fiero 5-speed, '75 MG Midget Buick Alum.V8 BW 5-speed manual, '77 Pontiac Astre Formula wagon 5-speed posi, '78 F150 4WD 351"M ==> 400" C6, '79 Caddy Seville Olds EFI 350" TH400, 19' Slickcraft 425HP 351W MerCruiser I/O
#875807 - 05/27/11 01:36 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: BuzzLOL]  
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BadSS Offline
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Originally Posted By: BuzzLOL
I like the Crane 210/216,


OK,, I changed my mind,, don't listen to Buzz --- lol!!! I double dang guarantee any of the other cams he and I listed will rip that "2040" cam an arse in a 305.

#875811 - 05/27/11 01:47 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: BadSS]  
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.. 2040 will idle better, better part throttle drivability, and get better MPG... maybe even more area under the torque curve in 305" with stock heads...


'86 Monte LS (total'd Fall '2013), '87 GTA TransAm TPI350 TH700-R4, '85 Fiero 5-speed, '75 MG Midget Buick Alum.V8 BW 5-speed manual, '77 Pontiac Astre Formula wagon 5-speed posi, '78 F150 4WD 351"M ==> 400" C6, '79 Caddy Seville Olds EFI 350" TH400, 19' Slickcraft 425HP 351W MerCruiser I/O
#875824 - 05/27/11 02:40 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: BuzzLOL]  
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BadSS Offline
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Originally Posted By: BuzzLOL
.. 2040 will idle better, better part throttle drivability, and get better MPG... maybe even more area under the torque curve in 305" with stock heads...


You know I was just kinding with you right?

Still,, have you run or installed this cam in anything before and had a remotely comparable base line against other cams? I have and while it isn't the worst cam,, there are many, many better choices. I don't care that much for the 212/224 - 112 Summit Cam,, but that's a better choice.

#875949 - 05/27/11 08:39 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: BadSS]  
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.. Summit cams good for tight budgets... can get cam, lifters, & springs for less than just a big advertised name cam...


'86 Monte LS (total'd Fall '2013), '87 GTA TransAm TPI350 TH700-R4, '85 Fiero 5-speed, '75 MG Midget Buick Alum.V8 BW 5-speed manual, '77 Pontiac Astre Formula wagon 5-speed posi, '78 F150 4WD 351"M ==> 400" C6, '79 Caddy Seville Olds EFI 350" TH400, 19' Slickcraft 425HP 351W MerCruiser I/O
#875999 - 05/27/11 11:29 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: BuzzLOL]  
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Wudce Offline
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Best just to read Ch 12 Camshafts by John Lingenfelter in his book "On Modifying Small-Block Chevy Engines" some of best reading there is smokin


Stock 86 Monte SS
#1023120 - 04/20/15 09:16 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: montecarloman90]  
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Beemer Offline
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Reviving an old thread. I'm looking at doing a cam swap when I pull my heads to be rebuilt. I'm looking at what has been listing here and I think I've found correct part numbers.

CompCams XE256 212/218

Lunati 60101

Summit #1103

I notate that I saw Summit's cam stating it is not Computer Controlled compatible. Does the same go for the other two? I was under the impression these were CCC friendly cams.

- Brandon

Last edited by Beemer; 04/20/15 09:17 PM.

Nothin but a G-thang

Jade
#1023336 - 04/24/15 05:34 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: montecarloman90]  
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Buick Runner Offline
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Dharma station 1 the Hydra
CCC friendly cams are cams that maintain a decent vacumm at idle to not upset the computer.

Last edited by Buick Runner; 04/24/15 05:34 AM.

SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1023355 - 04/24/15 05:43 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: montecarloman90]  
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Andy85SS Offline
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They're relative to CID too. A cam that's too big for a 305 with CCC may work just fine in a 400 SBC. I ran the comp xe274 with my 383 and CCC and the computer was just fine with it. That same cam would probably not work with a CCC 305 though.

#1023457 - 04/26/15 02:42 AM Re: 305 cam [Re: montecarloman90]  
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BadSS Offline
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As other have said, the friendly has all to do with the amount of vacuum the car will have. A lot of the earlier computer friendly cams were on 114 lobe spreads to help with vacuum due to the slow rate of rise - percentage increase from seat to .050" duration. With the higher rate of rise cams (short seat duration compared to older designs), you can run tighter lobe spreads which will allow the engine to get up on the power curve quicker.

Using the cams you listed (one is a Ford link), the Summit cam has a seat duration of 288/298 degrees, but its more like 280/290 compared to the others that have around 256/262 seat with similar duration at .050" and similar lifts all on 112-degree spreads. There will be little to no difference in peak or total power between the three and from a 2nd gear drop, you would tell little to no difference between the three.

HOWEVER, those with the shorter seat durations will idle cleaner (be more computer friendly if you will) and be MUCH more peppy while cruising in forth gear and off idle adding approximately 20lb/ft torque in that range over the Summit cam.

Back when I was installing cams in the L69s, my favorite while keeping the stock stall (around 2000 rpm) was a high efficiency Lunati, 255/265 - 205/215 on a 112 spread. Next favorite was a custom grind (at that time) 252/260 - 206/212 on a 110 spread with the 260/260 - 212/212 on a 110 eventually being about as large as I liked to install.

One of the worst running with the stock converter and a little hard to tune was the Crane 272/284 - 216/228 on a 112 spread. I installed a couple Alliance cams back then, which is the same cam as the Summit 288/298 - 214/224 - 112 cam and they never ran as quick as the 260/260 - 212/212 - 110 Comp with the stock stall. The last cam I recommended and tuned on in a L69 was the 254/262 - 210-218 - 111 Comp 4x4. It idled and was as crisp as the old high efficiency Lunati I liked so much, but pulled harder than the old 260 (212/212) Comp.
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=95&sb=2

I'd highly recommend spending a little money now to get a cam that will work well and you'll be happy with from the start. Youíll also need to budget for new springs and a decent timing chain Ė if the stock one hasnít been replaced, itís going to have a lot of slack in it by now. The Summit one below is a nice made in USA product for $30
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g6600-9/overview/make/chevrolet

#1023527 - 04/27/15 01:24 PM Re: 305 cam [Re: montecarloman90]  
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Beemer Offline
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BadSS,

I'm allowing budget room for springs and timing chain. I'm still determining which block I have if it will work without machining for a double roller.

So If I'm reading correctly, the summit cam is the opposite way to go, and the Lunati 60101 is just slightly larger than your most favorite cam size you ran? The duration is 213/219 and the 60101 is on a 112 spread which is the same as your favorite. It sounds like it will be vacuum friendly still.

- Brandon


Nothin but a G-thang

Jade
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