MonteCarloSS.com
MonteCarloSS.com

CELEBRATING 20 YEARS!

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 103 of 104 1 2 101 102 103 104
#1073355 - 03/03/22 05:21 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,609
mmc427ss Offline
20+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
20+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,609
Pottstown, Pa
Ron, you had me giggling, checkbook car.
A friend has a 67 Dart, 440, pulled the dual quads and went to a single Holley. Currently swapping the mufflers for hoping quieter at highway speeds. A year ago sold his 69 AMX because he got tired of the fixing the gremlins (not as in AMC). Bought a sweet 100 year anniversary 2014 Challenger with a 6 spd about two years ago. What does he like to drive, the Challenger because it easy, gets good mileage, and comfortable. He's always talking about doing ProCharger on that car and selling the Dart. The Challenger is a checkbook car, the procharger is a large checkbook item that someone else would install and tune.
He's old like me, and tired of playing with cars. They advantage to the new stuff is you can just pay someone to tune your stuff, you don't need to struggle with carbs and the rest of the fun stuff we struggled with. It comes in a can now called a laptop.
Bob

#1073356 - 03/03/22 06:59 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
Peoria, AZ
The best part is taking that floppy granny car that you built with your own hands and using it to whup up on the check book hot rod cars on a regular basis.

I REALLY enjoy that part of my hobby... driving

Beating the LS swap guys with my SBC is secondary in my enjoyment factor, but still very prominent. beer


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1073359 - 03/04/22 01:45 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Buick Runner Offline
10+ Year
Buick Runner  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Dharma station 1 the Hydra
Originally Posted by SSLance
The best part is taking that floppy granny car that you built with your own hands and using it to whup up on the check book hot rod cars on a regular basis.

I REALLY enjoy that part of my hobby... driving

Beating the LS swap guys with my SBC is secondary in my enjoyment factor, but still very prominent. beer


It seems people put way too much emphasis on modernizing everything when being old gen powered is the least of the issues in G bodies. Cars are much more complicated than just the engine or its power output. I installed several braces and poly body mounts and I am still getting stress cracks from just a 305 and some cracks came from the old 231!.

Personally I would never install a DBW engine in a car that predates it. Throttle response is akin to the trigger pull on a firearm, with both the feel can highly affect performance even with skilled users. Only analog controls for me when I can help it.

Last edited by Buick Runner; 03/04/22 01:50 AM.

SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1073363 - 03/04/22 02:56 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
Peoria, AZ
The tuners will tell you they can tune the DBW setups to be however you like. I've yet to experience that in person though...

I've hated every one that I've ever raced.

Even the one with a bungee cord hooked to the throttle pedal and the bottom of the dash trying to stiffen the throw up to make it less touchy... laugh


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1073364 - 03/04/22 03:30 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,609
mmc427ss Offline
20+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
20+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,609
Pottstown, Pa
My friend with the Challenger, is finally getting used to the hill hold feature on the clutch, doesn't like the DBW and eliminated the skip shift on the trans.

Hill hold for me is primitive, Hurst line lock works great.
Bob

#1073365 - 03/04/22 03:55 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
1 Slow SS Offline
10+ Year
1 Slow SS  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
Small town KY
I never was a fan of the drive by wire either, I prefer 24x.

As a car builder I always target a good foundation. Starting with a car too fare gone because it's cheap isn't cost and quality effective. Scrap the old cracked Buick and find a new car your happy with for safety reasons.




Last edited by 1 Slow SS; 03/04/22 12:04 PM.

Enjoy life, family first!
#1073367 - 03/04/22 06:03 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Buick Runner Offline
10+ Year
Buick Runner  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Dharma station 1 the Hydra
DBW can't fully replicate the feel of drive by cable even if they tried due to physics. Most DBW includes a self learning feature to learn your driving styles. That means over time it learns to ignore small changes in pedal position and becomes lazier over time. Not sure if tuners can tune out the self learning feature.m


My Regal is pretty rust free with mint floors and body mount bolts and was driven by my grandparents, a real creampuff. Even then it still developed roof stress cracks. Its not uncommon at all for G bodies to have roof stress cracks and body warpage issues. Seen plenty of it on other G bodies. In the 80's GM really downsized the body structure, deleting many of the braces 70's G bodies had to save costs.

Its a very well known issue that the pillars on stock G bodies are poorly attached to the roof and crack the body lead from flex. On my Regal the factory used a single spotweld on the driver side B pillar, and a single spot braze on the passenger side. Still not sure why they used two different methods on each side. Typical GM body build quality back then.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1073368 - 03/04/22 06:22 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,902
BadSS Offline
20+ Year
BadSS  Offline
20+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,902
Pearl, MS, 39208
I think Runner just got a lemon of a Buick. Should have gotten an SS. I was yanking the tires and running LOW 10s on the spray with no additional bracing other than the upper to lower control arm brace and just got one small stress fracture near the roof line on the driver’s side front pillar after 7 years of abuse and hundreds of races. Added an 8 point cage not long afterward purely for my safety but it apparently prevented any other stress fractures that MIGHT have happened during another 4 years of daily driving and another 100 or so races and countless test and tunes. I think for a wet noodle of a granny car it’s held up fairly well. 😃


Original owner of 1985 SS black hardtop w/gray interior. Frame-on restoration in progress. 406 sleeper w/ heavily ported FIRST TPI. 1.875" headers and dual 3.5" Borla exhaust. TH400, Ford 9", anti-roll bar, and notched frame. Dropped 2", 18" wheels, and F/R disk brakes. 10-point cage w/swing-out bars, custom gauges, and audiophile stereo system.
#1073372 - 03/04/22 08:26 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
1 Slow SS Offline
10+ Year
1 Slow SS  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
Small town KY
Buick,

I'm not sure you understand the LSx platforms options. A 24x is a reluctor wheel uses a throttle body driven by a cable verses electric actuator. Mast motorsport sells most of their engines in this configuration. I'm sure, but by now you could even run 58x with a cable drive throttle body I believe. The early LS1 cars were 24x and all were cable driven from GM as the rest of the fleet in those years.

I don't know... I have frame offed several G body cars. My last pro street Monte I made a hard top out a T top car and it was loaded with welds at the B pillars on each side. I do have tons of experience that makes me drag you down to my level. So I do apologize for sharing my observations.


Enjoy life, family first!
#1073373 - 03/04/22 08:33 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Buick Runner Offline
10+ Year
Buick Runner  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Dharma station 1 the Hydra
Regals, including TRs and GNs lack 4 to 6 ĺower mounting bushings, the #5 bushings, and the F41 front frame braces. Even then there are still plenty of SSs with stress cracks too.Roll cages do improve the rigidity of autobody structures and reduce stress cracks.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1073374 - 03/04/22 10:07 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: Buick Runner]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
1 Slow SS Offline
10+ Year
1 Slow SS  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
Small town KY
Sorry Lance


Enjoy life, family first!
#1073376 - 03/05/22 12:18 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: 1 Slow SS]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Buick Runner Offline
10+ Year
Buick Runner  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,105
Dharma station 1 the Hydra
Originally Posted by 1 Slow SS
Buick,

I'm not sure you understand the LSx platforms options. A 24x is a reluctor wheel uses a throttle body driven by a cable verses electric actuator. Mast motorsport sells most of their engines in this configuration. I'm sure, but by now you could even run 58x with a cable drive throttle body I believe. The early LS1 cars were 24x and all were cable driven from GM as the rest of the fleet in those years.

I don't know... I have frame offed several G body cars. My last pro street Monte I made a hard top out a T top car and it was loaded with welds at the B pillars on each side. I do have tons of experience that makes me drag you down to my level. So I do apologize for sharing my observations.





I was going by the Erod crates that only come with DBW and really the only LS option with all the proper legality paperwork for strict enforcement areas. Cobbled together aftermarket or non stock configuration OEM computer control systems run into legality issues. But that is a whole other topic I really don't want to dive into.

I removed the body filler on my roof seams down to bare steel and pulled out the quarter windows. Only saw a few spot welds or spot blazing depending on the side of the car. G bodies are well known and documented for having minimum weld joining at the pillar tops. Here are a few images of other people's cars from the net.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

As you can see, the problem is GM only attached the roof to the B pillar with a spot weld or spot blaze in the middle of the pillar with no support at the door opening or quarter window corners. On my car there were large gaps in the quarter window corners GM just applied body filler over, a rookie mistake that even halfbutt bodymen will tell you to avoid.

On my car I added more spot welds to the seams to reduce flexing and welded the corner gaps closed. Along with a full sell of poly body bushings including the #5s, Tinman rear seat brace that I welded in, homemade rear frame Jeff bar, front GP bar, etc. This was after lifting the body off the frame to weld a repair washer to the passenger side #2 frame mount hole, a common trouble spot on G bodies caused by the poorly designed HVAC drain. That was besides finding GM sealed two holes in the firewall with foam that I had to clean up and reseal with 2K epoxy sealer.




To put it simply: "Wow, body flex for ride comfort? That's not a cool tradeoff."
"Yeah, but it was late seventies Detroit. Cocaine is a hell of a drug."


Last edited by Buick Runner; 03/05/22 04:38 AM.

SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1073443 - 03/14/22 01:38 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
Peoria, AZ
I'm just gonna drop this here...

https://youtu.be/TUg-tX5MgSg

More later when I get time.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1073444 - 03/14/22 02:58 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,609
mmc427ss Offline
20+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
20+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,609
Pottstown, Pa
I know, long day out in the sun, I fell sorry for you.

Nice video, I think I watched it 5 time already. Thanks.
Bob

#1073445 - 03/14/22 03:04 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
1 Slow SS Offline
10+ Year
1 Slow SS  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
Small town KY
Man that is F n sweet!!


Enjoy life, family first!
#1073472 - 03/17/22 01:34 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
Peoria, AZ
Good Guys registration today, racing starts tomorrow.

As I continue to tweak and fine tune the new rear suspension I continue to learn more about how the changes affect the handling. This weekend will be interesting as we because totally different kind of course.

Wish me luck!!


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1073488 - 03/22/22 03:59 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,609
mmc427ss Offline
20+ Year
mmc427ss  Offline
20+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,609
Pottstown, Pa
Looks like you had at least one good fast run, any video?

Haven't run across any other car videos from that day yet. Always wonder about those Goodguy courses being any fun.
Bob

#1073490 - 03/22/22 08:33 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
Peoria, AZ
Good Guys courses are a blast, don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise. This one was a bit challenging and took me all day Friday to finally figure out. Raising the Rev Limiter 250 RPM, raising the PHB, rotating the tires, adding compression up front and adding rebound in the rear all helped...but pulling my head out of my arse on my tenth run seemed to make the largest difference in my times. laugh

https://youtu.be/SVJwjo-QciY


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1073491 - 03/22/22 10:44 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
Peoria, AZ


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1073497 - 03/24/22 02:49 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: Buick Runner]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,891
Travis Jones Offline
10+ Year
Travis Jones  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,891
Ferndale, MI
Originally Posted by Buick Runner
DBW can't fully replicate the feel of drive by cable even if they tried due to physics. Most DBW includes a self learning feature to learn your driving styles. That means over time it learns to ignore small changes in pedal position and becomes lazier over time. Not sure if tuners can tune out the self learning feature.m


Sorry to go back to the future... but I wanted to touch on a few things here.

I'm running a DBW throttle and its 1:1 in relation to the pedal. There's no delay or or self learning. It is almost too touchy when you're in a parking lot, but that can be tuned out easily, depending on the ECU.

For the record GM 24x engines came with DBW (corvettes, some later trucks) and mechanical cable operated throttle bodies (trucks and camaros). 58x is all DBW from the factory, unless you run an aftermarket ECU, then you can use a cable TB. DBW can do a lot of stuff that you cant do with a cable TB like throttle controlled soft rev limits, (spark cut limiters sound cool but are rough on engines) traction control, stability control, and it is also virtually impossible to stall my car because of the way the ECU is tuned. The other advantage of the 58x engine is cam phasing, but it can be costly to implement in a performance application.

Then again, the guy who tunes my stuff does nothing but tune LS/LT motors on a dyno all day for an OEM, so maybe I'm spoiled.


86 SS 6.2l LS3, Ilmor intake, Summit Stage 4 Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Tremec T-56 Magnum 6 speed, Eaton Truetrac 8.8 LSD, UMI Cornermax Front Suspension, 3-link Rear suspension w/ UMI Control Arms, UMI Front & Rear Braces, Brembo Brakes
#1073503 - 03/25/22 09:21 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,902
BadSS Offline
20+ Year
BadSS  Offline
20+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,902
Pearl, MS, 39208
Originally Posted by SSLance
Good Guys courses are a blast, don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise. This one was a bit challenging and took me all day Friday to finally figure out. Raising the Rev Limiter 250 RPM, raising the PHB, rotating the tires, adding compression up front and adding rebound in the rear all helped...but pulling my head out of my arse on my tenth run seemed to make the largest difference in my times. laugh

https://youtu.be/SVJwjo-QciY


Man, that thing is moving on. Could your clutch be slipping a little, or maybe getting into some timing retard? Maybe it's just not being in the car (camera/sound effect). If you need a couple hundred extra RPM, you could get rid of those 2.5" FlowBastards - lol.

#1073507 - 03/25/22 06:17 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: BadSS]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
Peoria, AZ
Originally Posted by BadSS

Man, that thing is moving on. Could your clutch be slipping a little, or maybe getting into some timing retard? Maybe it's just not being in the car (camera/sound effect). If you need a couple hundred extra RPM, you could get rid of those 2.5" FlowBastards - lol.


Naw, it was just an extra long front straight...longer and straighter than usual. I was in the limiter at 6350 halfway down it and just rode the limiter til the end in this video. I had the limiter set at 6600 and according to the dash tach and the data log, it never got over 6350. I raised it to 6850 and it would rev to 6750 and hit the limiter. That meant I could stay in first gear and only ride the limiter the last 100' or so of the front straight.

The Flowbastards certainly weren't what was holding me back on this track, if anything...them choking the horsepower down most likely helped me vs hurt me. Once I figured out how to make this thing turn, I was back to the same old problem, not enough forward bite to get off the corners as fast as needed. At least it was spinning the tires going straight forward instead of hanging the back end out while roasting them...

This thing ran on Saturday, talk about forward bite!!

[Linked Image]

While he had heaps of forward bite, he was lacking in lateral roll resistance...

[Linked Image]

This incident on his second run got him a "please don't return" reward... laugh

The crowd LOVED it though...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1073512 - 03/26/22 02:33 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
1 Slow SS Offline
10+ Year
1 Slow SS  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,232
Small town KY
That truck is real cool, I'm sure he had quite the gathering after his run.


Enjoy life, family first!
#1073519 - 03/28/22 01:15 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,238
Hunter79764 Offline
10+ Year
Hunter79764  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,238
Grand Prairie, Tx
Just a guess, but removing those spare tires from up high in the bed could probably have reduced his body roll by a couple inches, might have shaved a second or so off his time smile

Looks like both of you guys had fun though.


Shawn

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1074144 - 06/20/22 03:51 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
SSLance Offline
10+ Year
SSLance  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,629
Peoria, AZ
More later on a much needed update...but this should hold some of you over for a little while...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CfA2iTOuo6C/

laugh


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
Page 103 of 104 1 2 101 102 103 104

Random Images
519/thumbs/DSC00044.JPG
by Ted88SS
524/thumbs/P7150023-small.JPG
by ProTourAero
730/thumbs/221.JPG
by vino2216
548/thumbs/DSC004871.JPG
by 84supersport
500/thumbs/LF.jpg
by Greg Talbott
Help MonteCarloSS.com


Recent Contributors
kevins88ss
Authorized Vendors
Tell them you saw it
on MonteCarloSS.com!


CustomMonteSSParts.com
Dixie Monte Carlo Depot
GSI Interiors
HRpartsNstuff
Mikes Montes
Savitske Classic & Custom
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0