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#1061263 - 03/22/19 10:06 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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This pic shows it hooking enough to lift the nose...but it dang sure wears the rear tires a ton more than the front now for sure.

[Linked Image]

Regarding preload, do you mean on the coil springs? Because there is none now, it has helper springs to take up slack when weight is lifted off the rear.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061264 - 03/22/19 10:38 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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You could always relocate your motor and trans back one inch maybe two that change eight distribution or glass hood and aluminum core support if you are getting picky. What would a 100 pound move do for ur if it was shifted toward the back or removed entirely??


[Linked Image]
New BTR Stage 4 cam makes 449 HP and 380 TQ TQ at the wheels. 6.0 LY6 VVT and 4L85E!blackgoldaero http://www.cardomain.com/ride/671193
#1061282 - 03/25/19 03:39 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Hey Lance, I have a question about your front sway bar installation. I am working at making a mount for a splined sway bar for my car. I was wondering how much shorter than the overall sway bar length you cut the mounting tube? 2 1/2 -3" shorter than the sway bar length? I'm making the mount now but I don't have a sway bar yet to actually measure how long the splines are or how far the arms sit in from the ends, so I'm having a hard time figuring out how long to cut the mounting tube. If you or anyone else could give me some advice I'd appreciate it.

#1061283 - 03/25/19 04:11 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: Warriorridge]  
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Originally Posted by Warriorridge
Hey Lance, I have a question about your front sway bar installation. I am working at making a mount for a splined sway bar for my car. I was wondering how much shorter than the overall sway bar length you cut the mounting tube? 2 1/2 -3" shorter than the sway bar length? I'm making the mount now but I don't have a sway bar yet to actually measure how long the splines are or how far the arms sit in from the ends, so I'm having a hard time figuring out how long to cut the mounting tube. If you or anyone else could give me some advice I'd appreciate it.


What you want is about 1/4" of play in the bar once everything is installed, the bar needs to be able to slide back and forth 1/4". The reason for this is the bar gets shorter as it twists and you don't want it to bind up when twisting. You don't want too much slack in it though as it'll clunk as it moves back and forth during normal street driving. I'll get mine up on the lift here in a bit and measure mine and post back. I actually cut my tube too short originally and had some delrin washers made up to put in to dial back in the slack and cure the clunk.

You'll also need to know how thick your swing arms are going to be where they slide on the spines and I set mine so they slide ALL the way on before tightening down. I've seen the carnage when a swing arm comes off the bar on course and it isn't pretty. I watched my arms for movement a lot the first few times I raced the car after the install.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061285 - 03/25/19 04:30 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Thanks for the reply. I did know about having some slack, main thing I needed to know is how far the arms will sit in from the ends of the bar and I can do the math from there. It sounds like on your bar you can slide the arms in or out from the ends a little, the bars I was looking at (49 spline Nascar style) have a Grove machine in them for the pinch bolt on the arms, so they couldn't slide as long as the bolt is in.

#1061288 - 03/25/19 09:00 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Yeah, a groove like that would be nice.

The ends of my bar extend past the swing arms about 1/8" or so.

This is driver side and you can see the delrin washer I added is up against the delrin bar bushing.

[Linked Image]

This is passenger side showing the 1/4" gap between washer and bushing.

[Linked Image]


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061292 - 03/26/19 11:31 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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MC96 Offline
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https://howeracing.com/index.php/sway-bar-kit-splined-road-race.html

This is what you want to use for a mount warriorridge. Go with 1-1/2-48 end bars 1-3/4-49 are too hard to find used when you're dialing it in. I had a hell of a time finding arms to fit my 1-3/4 as well.

Andrew Scott bought universal 1-1/2 arms (allstar maybe) and had them bent to fit, thats the way to go. You can do it for under $400


Also I think lance has about the ideal mounting spot, I put my tube where the factory bar goes and I need a heck of a big bar to get the same rate at the links as Lance does with his shorter arms, although the UMI brace has a kink to go around the factory sway bar in the stock location I still needed to space it down about a half inch to fit over the bar mount tube. I still would say advantage Lance because the way he did it adds less weight and its further back.

These bars are heavy, even gun drilled. QA1 has a new carbon fiber bar, I talked with them at PRI about offering it in a splined end version.

Speaking of PRI, the Viking camaro has a really trick sway bar, its up kind of straddling the water pump, Im not positive you could change it without taking a fender off though


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1061295 - 03/26/19 05:15 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Thanks for the help guys, I got my swaybar mount finished yesterday.

#1061297 - 03/26/19 10:55 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Let see some pics!!


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061318 - 03/30/19 12:21 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Lance, anymore thoughts about fixing the rear bite?
I chased the tail the last event running the street tires and chased it again this past week on the back roads. I know bigger would be better, more tire, but stuck running either the street Comp 2s or dragging the A6s along with me. Yep, still have them mounted on another set of GTAs. Haven't used the A6 at an autox since making all the changes to the front end geometry. I should try to use them up this year, just a PITA to change four tires, twice, at an event.

You're season ends soon, our's is soon to get underway. Potential dates of events for this year are slim, the goal is always try to make 4 events.

I'm still in awe, 15 runs at Goodguy, that is a season for me.
Bob


Last edited by mmc427ss; 03/30/19 12:22 AM.
#1061515 - 04/15/19 08:29 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Originally Posted by mmc427ss


Lance, anymore thoughts about fixing the rear bite?



I have a few ideas... Softer rear springs with a soft rear sway bar will be my next attempt.


Originally Posted by mmc427ss


I'm still in awe, 15 runs at Goodguy, that is a season for me.
Bob



Actually it was 21 runs over 2 days... And it was too many I think.

I hit my sweet spot at between 6-9 runs on any 1 course. After that I try too hard to find tenths and end up giving up full seconds...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061517 - 04/15/19 08:55 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Started placing orders for parts today... The next stage of development is in the works.

It is strange to be pulling the car apart in April while all of my friends are just now getting their season started...but I've raced hard for the last 8 months and wore out a brand new set of tires since Sept 2018. It's time for a bit of a break...and to take a step back and take care of some things that need addressing.

A couple of events ago an old problem reared it's ugly head once again, the seal between the top plate and the body of the carburetor failed and now has the engine running VERY rich at the most inopportune times. I first noticed the delay in throttle response at the Good Guys event and then the last SCCA race of the year Keith and I struggled with keeping it running at idle and dealing with a slight delay in corner exit throttle. I watched him idle at the start line with black smoke just pumping out the tailpipes and made my decision. It is time to add EFI.

The Quadrajet has served me well, Bob built me a beautiful carb and in a perfect world...I'd leave it on. Operator error caused this issue the first time and it worked well for two years after the band-aide fix by Bob. With my new location here and the ability to race at elevations from Sea level up to 4500 feet within hours, I need a fuel delivery system that will comply with different oxygen levels easier.

Here is what I've chosen, starting from the fuel pump. After a LOT (and I mean a WHOLE LOT) of deliberation, I've decided to try the Holley EFI Muscle car tank (actually a Tanks Inc setup) that comes with a deeper cell, separate holes pre-drilled for sending unit and fuel pump\pickup and a 4.3 lt sump for the pickup to sit in.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_tanks/efi_conversion_fuel_tanks/parts/19-144

This will attach to my stock fuel line in a returnless type setup headed to the throttle body and the vent will attach to the vent line that runs up to the charcoal canister. The pump being internally regulated lets me dead head the fuel line at the throttle body and allows for a more plug n play install.

For the throttle body itself, I chose the Terminator EFI 4 bbl Throttle Body kit. This will sit on top of an Edlebrock Single plane high rise intake manifold. The main reason I chose the Terminator is because of the separate ECU which I can mount in a safe place and attach a laptop to for very fine tuning once I get it all up and running. The Sniper setup was a close second but I think I'll like the Terminator setup a bit better even though it's a bit more involved to install.

[Linked Image]

https://www.holley.com/products/fue...bbl_tbi_kits/4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-405

Lastly, I spent the last day or so watching videos and researching ignition setups...trying to find the best reliable easy to setup ignition that the Terminator ECU can control the timing on. I was looking at the Holley Dual Sync and Hyperspark distributor setups and during one install video I noticed that setting up the dual sync is almost exactly the same as what I went thru to set up my MSD Pro-Billet Distributor that my 6AL-2 controls the timing on now. After a bit more investigation I discovered that I can in fact use my MSD Pro Billet distributor and 6AL-2 with the Terminator. This made me happy as I KNOW it works plus I don't have to lay out the cash and spend the time setting it all up once again.

I have found a local tuner with vast knowledge of this software and access to a dyno, so I'll most likely have him fine tune everything once all of the self learning is done and I've got some miles on the setup. It'll be interesting to see how a leaner WOT and that single plane intake will help my top end power.

So, the parts are ordered...hopefully most will be here before the end of the week and I can prepare to start laying things out. I am going to make some other changes as well like moving the O2 sensor up into the header collector and adding V-Band connectors to the header flanges and exhaust as well as trying a new better header gasket for between the flange and the head. I am also going to move the MSD and coil out from under the dash back into the engine bay to try to stop the interference with my Dakota Digital Dash that makes it read 15 MPH while sitting still.

My goal as always is for this upgrade to not take the car down for more than 2 weeks...which will require a lot of pre-planning. Wish me luck!!


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061527 - 04/16/19 02:22 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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I pour my heart and soul out here on a decision made that I agonized over for years... and not one response. laugh


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061528 - 04/16/19 02:24 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Maybe we are so excited we don’t know what to say?

#1061533 - 04/16/19 06:34 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: ramey36]  
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Originally Posted by ramey36
Maybe we are so excited we don’t know what to say?


Maybeeee.... laugh

Wish I was that excited about it... Frankly I really just hope I'm not opening up a big ol can O worms that I can't close back up again.

Hopefully all of the choices I made pan out like I want.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061534 - 04/16/19 06:45 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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My thought was that two weeks is.... optimistic.. I was gonna keep that to myself though!

Good luck Lance, Im sure this will be one of the landmark changes in the car once you're done.
You certainly stretched the stock set up as further than most people would ever think it could go.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1061535 - 04/16/19 06:48 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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I've never been a fan of the TBI style EFI, that being said it's an upgrade from a controlled fuel leak. Though for 2K+ personally, I'd just put an LS in the car they come with free EFI.


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS GEN IV intake, 92mm TB, 30lb injectors, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, FABbot AR5 5-speed, Torsen LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Suspension Kit, UMI Front & Rear Braces. Check out my build blog on Summit Racing's OnAll Cylinders https://www.onallcylinders.com/author/travis-jones/
#1061537 - 04/16/19 07:27 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: MC96]  
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Originally Posted by MC96
My thought was that two weeks is.... optimistic.. I was gonna keep that to myself though!

Good luck Lance, Im sure this will be one of the landmark changes in the car once you're done.
You certainly stretched the stock set up as further than most people would ever think it could go.


Thanks... We'll see on the time frame. I did the T56 swap in 20 days...and that involved an unplanned header change...

The wiring will be the big unknown, everything else is just bolt on plug n play.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061538 - 04/16/19 07:30 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: Travis Jones]  
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Originally Posted by thepezking639
I've never been a fan of the TBI style EFI, that being said it's an upgrade from a controlled fuel leak. Though for 2K+ personally, I'd just put an LS in the car they come with free EFI.



An LS swap would cost me upwards of $5-6000 easily...probably more. For the ills I'm trying to cure, the TBI should work just fine.

It's my awesome Vortec heads that are keeping me from going sequential. If Edlebrock had an E-tec multi port intake manifold in stock I'd be looking at a much different setup.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061539 - 04/16/19 07:36 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Lance I do believe the intakes on the 604 CT motors have a spot that could be drilled for injectors.

[Linked Image]

Im sure someone has done it.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1061541 - 04/16/19 08:06 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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That is the intake I'm getting...only the Edlebrock variety. Found out that Edlebrock makes them for GM.

Maybe down the road I'll do that upgrade but for now, TBI it is. Multiport takes install up a whole 'nother level...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061556 - 04/17/19 03:43 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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WWWWWWWEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLL excuse MMMMMEEEEE.
Just kidding Lance.

I knew you would make the switch to the other side someday. Once you dial in these new fangled FI setups they work pretty good. You won't miss having to crank the engine to fill the carb if the car sits for a few days, no more pumpin the pedal to start, leaks at the airhorn, to rich, to lean. Gotta love carbs.

Nice intake choice. Probably about 1" taller than the one you're running now. Check the air cleaner to hood clearance. Interestingly the carb angle on that intake is 0 degrees, like it's made for TBI. Carb intakes always have an angle there to make the carb close to level.

Lots of parts to install to get that project done. Having a tank with a sump will be a plus for the car.

Don't think you install a pressure regulator on the car to control the fuel pressure to the carb, but, that 100 bucks may have solved your carb problems.

Hoping you find a cheap fix for the header to head gaskets. Your new FI will not work well if you have an upstream leak in the exhaust.

I have to pull the intake on my engine again for the third time to fix an intake gasket push. Because there is so little alum on the top of the intake manifold ports the gasket pushes the corners of the intake gasket up at the port corners. Last time it was off I had the 5-7 port area on the intake built up with weld and milled the gasket face to fix that area, that fixed that area. Hindsight now said I should have had all four areas done. Now the 2-4 port is in trouble, I can see the blue on the Felpro gasket. With the new A/F I had to richen the cruise A/F a lot to get it back into the 15 A/F range. Went looking for leaks and found that 2-4 area. Just another
problem when dealing with a mix of aftermarket parts. Just like your header gasket issues.
Bob

#1061558 - 04/17/19 04:25 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Thanks Bob... laugh Believe me, I still have some mixed feelings about this swap. I LOVE beating LS powered cars with my ol Quadrajet...

I ran a fuel pressure regulator for a bit while trying to diagnose the last time this happened, pretty sure it wouldn't help this time either. The bowl isn't overfilling...the seal from the top plate to the body failed once again. You can see evidence all around the carb body down onto the intake. I think once I initially over tightened the air cleaner stud, it damaged the top plate beyond repair. Your fix worked for a while but once the engine got pretty heart soaked, it started to rear it's ugly head once again and one thing that happens out here (especially how I drive the car) is heat soak.

The non-angled carb base is an issue I'll have to deal with along with the taller intake. Hopefully I can modify my air cleaner spacer enough to retain my cowl induction setup. If not, an open top K&N setup will have to do...

The question I'm struggling with right now is if I should leave the ignition setup as is for now until I get the TBI all setup and self learned...then make the swap to having the ECU control the timing? Or just do the whole swap all at once and hope for the best?

If I didn't have to change the intake, I'd do the former for sure...but since the distributor has to come out anyway I'm torn on which direction to go. I know I'd like to eventually get the coil and the MSD out from under the dash and probably put the ECU in the kick panel...but that doesnt' have to happen right away.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1061559 - 04/17/19 04:31 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Lance - what kind of vacuum are you getting? I understand the FI kits need 7-10 inches minimum for control. I have toyed with the idea of switching but with a big cam need to look at that first. Just digging the car out from under the winter blankets...
Love your thoughtful assessment and pics/links.
Thanks in advance,
Gordon

#1061560 - 04/17/19 04:53 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Is it an option with the FI to have the ignition be a standalone or does it need to be interfaced with the FI?

You may be alright with the taller intake and using the cowl hood, Just need to figure out how to get fresh air to it. Not sure if you opened up the 90 some holes in the cowl hood for more inlet air. It's just another little problem we encounter with modified cars.

Just ordered an entire brake line kit for the wife's 02 SS. Line rusted through at the rear, sucks. Now gotta figure out how to get the car 8 miles to the shop with no brakes. Gotta love this pretreat they use on the highways in the East, it rots everything. This is the 4th vehicle i know of that has needed brake lines recently. My son's F150 is sitting waiting for me to do lines on it.

The list of car repairs just keeps growing. Brake lines on two vehicles, E-bake cables on the Astro, intake gaskets and clutch in the 86. To old to be having multiple problems!
Bob

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