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#1040103 - 06/09/16 11:19 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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SickSpeedMonte Offline
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Increasing the ratio between rim width and tire width is probably the biggest factor in making them more responsive, as it has a large effect on cornering stiffness. Your old tires in that size would be much more responsive as well.

The truck looks good! Is the front lifted with keys?

#1040104 - 06/09/16 11:25 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Peoria, AZ
I just turned the bar adjusters up way back when I put the 285s on it for the first time, raised it about 1.5".

Never really noticed before but it's front suspension is designed to ride on the bump stops and the old bump stops had deteriorated and rotted away. With the new GM bumps on there it really changed the way it rides again, back like it used to. The tires don't rub any more when I pull into my driveway either.

I think the 255s look too small for my 9.5" wide rims, almost like they had to be stretched. The guy that mounted them said he didn't have any trouble getting them to seat though. I have no idea where to start on with air pressures Sunday. I met a BFG rep at Midwest Muscle so I plan on hitting him up today to see if he can at least start me in the right direction. I know they leave copious black marks under hard acceleration though, much unlike the Falkens ever did.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1040126 - 06/10/16 02:14 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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howehot Offline
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38psi in front and let heat buildup to 41-42. 36 in rear, it will pretty much stay at 36-37 with heat in them.

#1040127 - 06/10/16 02:45 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Thanks Dan, I ran my Falkens at 37 in the front, 32 in the rear. I'll set them both at 37 then make some runs and measure tread temps. Gonna be 96 degrees out there, shouldn't be an issue getting heat into them. laugh You should come down!


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1040130 - 06/10/16 03:25 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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howehot Offline
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Running in Waterloo on Sunday along with Josh in the ElCamino. Finally getting the new fronts mounted for it tomorrow.

#1040214 - 06/13/16 07:07 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Making a car fast on any course is a combination of many things...first and foremost, the car needs to be neutral balanced so the driver isn't fighting one end of the car or the other loosing traction first. Once the car is neutral balanced, it is up to the driver to get the most speed out of the car in any given corner. Different driver inputs can affect the way the car handles (usually referred to as the driver mod) both positively and negatively. Then one might also have other mechanical issues the driver and car must work around that aren't really chassis related that affect speed. How a driver\tuner deals with all of the above is typically fluid and it is only once all of the above are almost perfect that one will run at or near the top of the speed charts in any given competition.

Throughout the multiple stages of development on this car (with Ron's fantastic help) we've done a pretty good job at keeping the car neutral. We reached a plateau last fall after the addition of the much stiffer front bar and the car had a loose condition mid roll through to corner exit that we could not tune out. Enter Stage 4 I call it, a huge jump in rear spring rate.

I ran one event last week with the new springs and had some tuning challenges. I could tell the springs fixed the issue we intended on fixing, but a few other issues popped up that we had to contend with and with only 4 runs at a typical SCCA event I didn't have enough time to dial everything in.

After some discussion with Ron, we came up with a few more tuning ideas and I entered another SCCA event in Topeka last Sunday with the intention of using multiple runs on a much faster freer flowing course to dial things in further. I can say now that the car is neutral once again and has MUCH more rear grip on mid roll through to corner exit. It took me about 4 runs to get the rear shocks and tire pressures set where I needed them and then I used the next 4 runs to work on the driver mod getting him used to the new setup.

Another issue reared it's ugly head once again though, I've wore out yet another clutch type posi unit and spent just about every right hand corner exit spinning the right rear tire while trying to put the power down which I'm certain really hurt my times. If you can't put the power down, you aren't going to go fast. Watch the right rear tire in the first run, you'll see the black marks it leaves on most corner exits. The second run in the video was my last one during the fun runs after the event was over and was my fastest run of the day (in the 96 degree afternoon heat even). I finally started to get a good feel for how the car was going to react and dealt with the posi issue the best that I could.

https://youtu.be/eKYJmL5_1M4

It'll take some more work (and $$$) to fix it even better but that's why we do this...right? laugh I'm trying to decide now which direction to go with a diff replacement. I know a certain green car that has dealt with similar diff issues and just installed a locker...I can't wait to hear how it does on course with this new addition. Some autocross gurus recommend against a locker, while others like them. I have no idea which way I'll most likely go...all I know is it will NOT be another trac-loc going back in the car.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1040215 - 06/13/16 07:34 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mainer Offline
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you may not like the push /rear end's want to come around under power that you'll gut with a locker .

#1040227 - 06/14/16 12:56 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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I didn't know you had a Track-loc installed, surprised at that. A brand new one is sitting on bench to be install in my son's F150 front axle. Have read that they do loose "bite" and need parts if you beat on them. For his 4x4 that sees limited hub lockup it should be ok and last several years.

The Truetrac install in my 8 1/2" is done, about 75 miles on it between yesterday and today, won't beat on it until next week, should be close to 500 on the new rear parts by then. Ran an Eaton posi for 15 years and know how it behaves in a corner, will be interesting to see, feel, the difference between the posi and the Truetrac, especially on the autox. Would be interesting to hear what Ron says about your diff choices.

As always I watch you videos! Does the wife every feel the need to sit in the other seat?

Other than pretty white smoke how did you like the Rivals? Can't tell much from the rear view cam, you need to buy another GoPro for front view, then sync them in a video, that would be cool. I like spending your money.
Bob

#1040229 - 06/14/16 01:19 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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The Rivals are a full blown race tire with street tread on them, you would not believe the grip. These are just too small for my rims. Not sure I'll buy any 255 to run on my 9.5s. Also too short. I had the camera trained in that position for a tuning reason, it served the purpose for me. wink Glad I moved it inside for the fun runs though, I still like that view the best for overall feel of the run. The wife has rode with me exactly once... laugh She doesn't care for it.

I'll be watching for your report on the TrueTrac. SOme say they aren't as good and don't hold up now that they are built overseas...I think anything is a gamble anymore.

Ron suggests the locker, but remember he is way more road course orientated than autocross orientated. I can't wait to hear what Ramey thinks of the locker once he races it on a Good Guys style course. I'm in no hurry...I'm done with big events for the year now.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1040233 - 06/14/16 02:17 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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My wife doesn't even like to ride in the car to car shows, at least your's had a helmet on once.

Looks like you need to wonder why BFG doesn't make the tire size you need! My understanding is they have a hard enough time supplying the tire sizes they do offer,

Yes I've read of guys destroying Truetrac, seems to be the car with excessive power, slicks. The brand new Truetrac I just installed is what you could call NOS, about 8 years old, never used. Not sure what year Eaton went south of the border but I know the Eaton Posi I removed is 15 years old and USA. On Tom's Diff when you look at Eaton Posi he charges a pretty penny to take a new Hucho Eaton posi apart and put his stamp of approval on it.
Bob

#1040243 - 06/14/16 12:29 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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I talked with a BFG rep at Midwest Musclecar, that is exactly it. They can't make enough of the sizes they do supply, so why should they make more sizes...

Many guys around here that autocross love their Torsen diffs, I know exactly nothing about them though. I plan on investigating them also before making a purchase.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1040275 - 06/15/16 04:44 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Torsen, Quaife, and Detroit Eaton Truetrac all are the same operating principle, torque biasing. They behave like an open rear until one tire looses traction, transferring the power to the tire with traction.
The Torsen was an option in 4th Gen F, also used in Hummer. I believe it's hard to find a Torsen for a 9" for less than 1K.

The Quaife, made in the UK, is very similar to the Eaton Truetrac internally, used in several Dodge SRTs. I installed a Quaife in my son's Saab 900 a few years ago, it was $1K. Had to disassemble the unit and install each 1/2 into the transaxle due to case opening being to small, a PITA. Can say it made a huge improvement in corner exit speed. He autox, rallyx and hillclimbs his car. A Quaife for a 9" is about $850.

The Detroit Eaton Truetrac for a 9" is about 500 bucks. Just finished the install of a Truetrac in my 8 1/2", no verdict on how it performs yet over the Eaton Posi. Applying power out of a corner with the posi would cause the rear to easily step out, breaking both tire loose. It will be interesting to feel the difference the Truetrac makes.
Bob

#1040474 - 06/20/16 01:56 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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SSLance Offline
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Apparently Ramey is now a huge fan of the Detroit locker they put in the Green Machine...he insists that I put one in Barney as soon as possible. I'm still weighing the options...

In the meantime...this happened...



Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1040475 - 06/20/16 02:05 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Crusher Offline
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Jersey Shore
Very Cool. Congrats.


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#1040481 - 06/20/16 02:37 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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FrankOC Offline
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Congrats Lance!


85 - ZZ383, 6-speed, 8.5"
70 - Stock, 35k miles
#1040492 - 06/20/16 05:31 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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That's pretty cool you got featured in GRM. Congrats!

We installed a 7.5 Detroit Locker. This weak version uses a different spring size than the ones Ron sells. For a Ford 9" I'd 100% use Ron's 40 lb units and install a Detroit Locker immediately.

After about 2 runs I had the hang of how it reacted and it was transparent after that. Roll-through feels like it's disconnected at the ring n pinion. When you put power down, full pull on both tires EVERY TIME. Two black streaks. Love it.

#1040493 - 06/20/16 05:34 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Pretty cool feature there!

#1040501 - 06/20/16 07:28 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Cool, congrats.

I like that Judas priest para-dime. Funny thing.... I was just listening to them yesterday for a couple hours while working.

Regards,
Ron


Enjoy life, family first!
#1040503 - 06/20/16 07:50 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Magazine coverage, priceless, makes neat wallpaper. Congrads!
Bob

#1040510 - 06/20/16 10:32 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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84 ZZ4 Offline
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Congrats Lance, getting ink is always a good thing, positive is even better.
Representing well!

#1040535 - 06/21/16 10:10 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: 84 ZZ4]  
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Real nice write up Lance,Congratulations !!!
Guy


GuysMonteSS '86 SS,513 BBC,AFR Heads,UDHarold/Bullet Custom Solid Roller Cam,706 lift,255/263 @ .050,Jesel Shaft Rockers,Balanced & Blueprinted,Doug Nash 4+1 5 Speed,Hurst In-Line Shifter,Ford 9 Inch Rear,SC&C Street Comp Stage 2+ Front End Kit...
#1040536 - 06/21/16 11:13 AM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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SickSpeedMonte Offline
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Awesome article! Way to be an ambassador of the class and our cars!

#1040545 - 06/21/16 02:22 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Auburn, Mi.
Very cool, Lance. Congrats!

Doug

#1040557 - 06/21/16 04:05 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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mainer Offline
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VARY NICE !!!

#1040570 - 06/21/16 08:28 PM Re: SSLance's Build thread [Re: SSLance]  
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Thanks guys... It's been a pretty cool year really. Never imagined my little car would garner this much attention.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
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