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#795775 - 05/20/10 11:20 PM how big of a wheel spacer is safe  
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Perk Offline
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Bradfordsville, ky
what is the largest spacer really acceptable. i see some guys running 2inch which is way more than i'd ever need. maybe in the area of 1/4 in. would this cause any major structural problems with the power i'm planning on having (430ish rwhp)


86 SS Burgundy/Burgundy
upcoming: Lq4w/ prc stage 2.5 cnc ported ls6 heads, patrick gurrera custom spec cam, 3200stall, gmpp single plane w/ quickfuel 780ss, performabuilt 700r4, QP 9" with 3.89's. estimated 430rwhp/400rwtq
#795780 - 05/20/10 11:31 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: Perk]  
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86_SS Offline
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League City, TX
the guys witht the 2" spacers have the adapters that bolt to the lug nuts and the adapter itself has 5 more studs for the wheel to bolt on to. i use 1/4" spacers on my monte with my 20's and the only thing i've done was had bigger studs installed just to make sure the lug nuts have enough thread to bolt on to..


86 Monte SS - blackside - sbc350, 700-R4, 7.5" open dif - blazer spindle/brake upgrade w/ stainless braided lines, tubular upper a-arms, 1" front lowering springs, jeep steering shaft, electric fans, serpentine swap, 4" fiberglass hood
#796428 - 05/23/10 06:32 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: 86_SS]  
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DICARLO Offline
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ZEPHYRHILLS, FLORIDA
I would vote for the 7/16" universal spacers as long as you upgrade to 2" lug studs.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Wheel-Lug-Stud-Pik-a-Nut_5018374-P_183_R%7CGRPWHELAMS____


Please see my ...

87 RED REGAL T, it's down the road frown , or my 87 DARK RED T and don't forget my 87 GRAND NATIONAL
#796830 - 05/24/10 11:47 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: DICARLO]  
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T.B`s Blown 84 SS Offline
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CASEY,IL USA.


#796848 - 05/25/10 12:37 AM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: T.B`s Blown 84 SS]  
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Perk Offline
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Bradfordsville, ky
well iguess that lil 1/4 inch is gonna be fine lol, thnx for the help and t.b. thats a big one right there


86 SS Burgundy/Burgundy
upcoming: Lq4w/ prc stage 2.5 cnc ported ls6 heads, patrick gurrera custom spec cam, 3200stall, gmpp single plane w/ quickfuel 780ss, performabuilt 700r4, QP 9" with 3.89's. estimated 430rwhp/400rwtq
#796853 - 05/25/10 12:49 AM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: Perk]  
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chicago Illinois
TB, i think your rotor is on the wrong side


87ss. lq4, d1sc procharger, 4l80e 3600stall, 9" 3.70 gear
#796877 - 05/25/10 01:37 AM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: foggerSS87]  
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Perk Offline
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Originally Posted By: foggerSS87
TB, i think your rotor is on the wrong side
rotfl


86 SS Burgundy/Burgundy
upcoming: Lq4w/ prc stage 2.5 cnc ported ls6 heads, patrick gurrera custom spec cam, 3200stall, gmpp single plane w/ quickfuel 780ss, performabuilt 700r4, QP 9" with 3.89's. estimated 430rwhp/400rwtq
#797120 - 05/25/10 11:48 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: Perk]  
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T.B`s Blown 84 SS Offline
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LOL.. Its not mine.. Its on a 81' El Camino we are putting together for someone.. He wanted Corvette rims.. SO.. smile Todd


#797155 - 05/26/10 01:40 AM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: T.B`s Blown 84 SS]  
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foggerSS87 Offline
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haha, you would not believe how many cars i see at carshows that have drilled and slotted rotors on the wrong sides, cant help but laugh


87ss. lq4, d1sc procharger, 4l80e 3600stall, 9" 3.70 gear
#797167 - 05/26/10 02:05 AM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: foggerSS87]  
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NY87SS Offline
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N.Wops NY
Wheel spacers and wheel adapters are 2 different animals.
Spacers should be avoided at all cost no matter what thickness they are. They have a tendency to shift and can over time cut the studs off and or allow wheel lugs nuts to loosen.

Adapters are fine as long as you don't shift the wheel center further from the bearing from where it original rim center was located.
Rears out to far can bend axles or break flange ends. Fronts extended out will cause premature bearing failure. Also they should be made of steel and not aluminum.


#798817 - 06/01/10 08:47 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: NY87SS]  
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RedRebel Offline
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Hendersonville TN
Originally Posted By: NY87SS
Wheel spacers and wheel adapters are 2 different animals.
Spacers should be avoided at all cost no matter what thickness they are. They have a tendency to shift and can over time cut the studs off and or allow wheel lugs nuts to loosen.

Adapters are fine as long as you don't shift the wheel center further from the bearing from where it original rim center was located.
Rears out to far can bend axles or break flange ends. Fronts extended out will cause premature bearing failure. Also they should be made of steel and not aluminum.



There are some good points here. So can someone explain to me how the adapter in the above picutre is a good idea? Wouldn't it be better to buy correct offset wheels or installing a wider rear end? The amount of metal bolted to the end of that axle looks like it would put way too much pressure on the end of the axle once the wheels are bolted on, not to mention the axle bearings. Spacers should never be used with wheels using conical seat lug nuts. They can be used with regular shank style lug nuts as long as they go through the wheel and into the spacer 3/4ths the thickness of the spacer: 1/2" spacer, then the shank needs to protrude into the spacer 3/8". I had a wheel come off a Corvette when I hit the brakes hard because the lug nuts were not long enough. The spacer allowed the wheel to move on the hub and it sheared all of the studs on the rightfront. Learned a valuable lesson that day.

Julian


Tryin' to figure out whether the Mrs across the way has a medical condition that causes her to go through lots of sugar, maybe she's doin' a lot of baking thus her constantly going to her young single male neighbor to borrow some daily....... I is a figurine that she's needin' the other kind of sugar....
#798826 - 06/01/10 09:27 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: RedRebel]  
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SickSpeedMonte Offline
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MD
Originally Posted By: RedRebel
There are some good points here. So can someone explain to me how the adapter in the above picutre is a good idea? Wouldn't it be better to buy correct offset wheels or installing a wider rear end? The amount of metal bolted to the end of that axle looks like it would put way too much pressure on the end of the axle once the wheels are bolted on, not to mention the axle bearings.


A wheel with 6" of BS and a 2" spacer will put the exact same forces on the bearings and axles as a wheel with 4" BS. As long as the adapter itself is strong enough to do the job (and locates the wheel centerline with the axle centerline), it will make no difference to anything else.

Just for visualization purposes, imagine you bolt the spacer to the wheel first. How is it any different than a wheel with the correct BS to start with? If you still don't agree, weld it on there. The free body digram is identical whether it's welded or bolted, and you've now effectively created a wheel with the proper backspacing.

#799012 - 06/02/10 04:24 AM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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This is not true by any means. What you have created is mechanical engineering nightmare. A wheel with 6" backspacing or offset using a 2" spacer is not the same as a wheel with 4" backspacing. It does place the inside of the wheel in the same location but the stress load on the end of the axle has been changed. The load on the end of the axle is increased because of the location of the axle bearing in relationship to the actual load support area of the wheel being moved outboard. The Corvette wheels were originally designed to be used on a car with an independent rear suspension where the load tolerances and dynamic characteristics of the suspension are completely different than that of a solid rear suspension. Though sometimes there is no way around it, using spacers and adapters is not the proper way to get a wheel to fit in a wheelopening. A correct width rear end housing combined with a correct offset wheel is the proper way of doing this. Since the customer wanted to use Corvette wheels the rear end housing for this vehicle should be 4" wider than what they originally planned for, or maybe 6" as the picture shown above it appears these adapters are almost 3" wide. If this were done then the builder would achieve close to the same load characteristics GM got with the wheels on the Corvette. There can still be abnormal axle bearing wear seen due to the wheel design, and also abnormal tire wear on the inside of the rear tires.

Julian


Tryin' to figure out whether the Mrs across the way has a medical condition that causes her to go through lots of sugar, maybe she's doin' a lot of baking thus her constantly going to her young single male neighbor to borrow some daily....... I is a figurine that she's needin' the other kind of sugar....
#799035 - 06/02/10 11:13 AM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: RedRebel]  
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SickSpeedMonte Offline
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MD
It's absolutely true. If the tire is in the same position (force input) and the wheel mating surface is in the same position (force output of the wheel, or force transfer interface to the vehicle), it makes just about no difference where the spokes of the wheel are, because that's ALL it boils down to. The only difference is the center of mass of the wheel is changed, and that's negligible when we're talking about bearing life and premature failure.

If you were to take a stock wheel (or otherwise wheel that fits without spacers) and just throw a 3" adapter behind it, then what you are saying applies.

#799400 - 06/03/10 03:17 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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Norm Peterson Offline
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state of confusion
Assuming the same width wheels . . .

The main difference assuming that everything remains firmly clamped together by proper lug nut torquing is that you have a combination of shear force and a varying bending moment through the spacer that obviously doesn't exist when you don't have a spacer.

The wheel stress picture for a deep backspace wheel differs from that of a shallow backspace wheel, because in addition to the vertical weight load there is also some bending in the wheel center due to the wheel's offset (the tread center is not directly under the wheel's mounting surface at the back of the wheel center).

Adding a spacer of thickness equal to the difference in backspacing "corrects" the bending moment in the deep backspace wheel to match whatever it would be in the shallow backspace wheel that isn't using a spacer. The result is that the loads applied to the axle/suspension remain the same.


You also add a small amount of unsprung mass with a spacer, but that's a minor side issue.

Longer studs will stretch a little bit more under the same torque.


Norm


'08 GT coupe, 5M, suspension unstockish (mine)
'10 Legacy 2.5GT, 6M (hers)
'01 Maxima 20AE, 5M (spare, winter driver)

Gone but not forgotten dep't: '95 Mazda 626, V6/5M; '79 Chevy Malibu, 4M/5M; '87 Maxima, 5M; '72 Ford Pinto, 4M; '64 Dodge V8/3A . . .
#799948 - 06/05/10 06:19 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: Norm Peterson]  
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WaSSted Offline
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Google wheel adapter failure. I searched a bit and only think I could find is premature bearing failure. So if it's a huge issue I believe I would have found more information in my search. MY conclusion, I am going to run 2.5" adapters to correct the spacing of the wheels I am planning to get.


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.
#799959 - 06/05/10 07:10 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: WaSSted]  
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NY87SS Offline
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Well then you did find something!!


The more connections being made in anything creates more ways it can fail and if I google adapter failures and actually READ the posts their are always one or 2 that have HAD failures.

I guess you'll be more than happy having to take your rims and tires off to double check that your inner connections are good like you should be doing with aftermarket rims normally installed.
Oh thats right if I google this its rare that wheels fall off because people don;t do this so I guess you'd like to be that rare circumstance. chair

#800267 - 06/07/10 02:28 AM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: WaSSted]  
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DICARLO Offline
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Originally Posted By: WaSSted
Google wheel adapter failure. I searched a bit and only think I could find is premature bearing failure. So if it's a huge issue I believe I would have found more information in my search. MY conclusion, I am going to run 2.5" adapters to correct the spacing of the wheels I am planning to get.


Why don't you plan on getting wheels with the correct BS? smile


Please see my ...

87 RED REGAL T, it's down the road frown , or my 87 DARK RED T and don't forget my 87 GRAND NATIONAL
#800434 - 06/07/10 04:45 PM Re: how big of a wheel spacer is safe [Re: DICARLO]  
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WaSSted Offline
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Have not found any wheels that I like that have the correct back spacing.
I would like to see what a set of OEM 2010 Camaro 20's would look like on a Monte.


Kirk Herres
86' SC/SS, 350 Vortec, Rpm intake & Cam, 750cfm Edlebrock Carb, 3" True Duals w/Flowmasters and DR. Gas X pipe, All Autometer Gauges, B&M Hammer Shifter, Accel wires & ign., and 3.73 Posi.

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