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#34695 - 12/05/05 08:53 PM TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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I've recently purchased an '86 IROC TPI setup that will be installed on my Monte. Anyone have any notes from their conversion that would help me along? I would like information on what modifications will have to be done to the TPI harness to make it work in the G-body.

TIA


Dustin
87 SS
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#34696 - 12/05/05 11:21 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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GearedSS Offline
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Check with chevythunder.com Lots of good printable info. Thats were most of my help come from. Lots of info on this board as well. I think TPI Monte SS has a site with good info also.
good luck

#34697 - 12/06/05 04:33 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Sparkee Offline
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Before you do anything, buy this book: http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=sad+sa53&...=115&target=egnsearch.asp

It is not specific to G-bodies, just TPI swaps in general. Your best bet for fuel pump is a fuel sending unit from a TBI Monte or GN/Turbo Regal with a Walbro pump. Another option, which is what I'm using on my 87 SS, is a frame rail mounted fuel pump from a mid-late 80's Ford F150. Don't ask why, I'm using it cause I got it free from a buddy that had a TPI setup on his truck and it works. You need some fuel line adapters to fit the Ford fittings, but I got those, too.


There is no such thing as too much horsepower, as long as you can put it to the ground!!
#34698 - 12/06/05 04:39 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Spider_carb Offline
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I recommend a Howell harness if it's in your budget. It plugs right in to the monte's stock IP harness.

http://www.howell-efi.com

#34699 - 12/07/05 02:28 AM Re: TPI Conversion  
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85SSMan Offline
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Dustin,

I found all the information for my swap at chevythunder.com and right her on this board. I used the factory TPI harness, and tied it into the Monte harness where needed (only a few wires), took me a total of about a week to get everything installed, tuned and running good. You will also need to look at Thirdgen.org for tuning tips, error codes and basic wiring for your TPI, the people there are pretty harsh, but will help if you ask the right questions.

Chris



1985 Monte SS, Rebuilt L69 with TPI. 200-4R Tranny. 951 Modine with TPI duel fans. True 2 1/4 Flowmaster Duals. B.F.H. made dual hump crossmember. Stock Suspension, interior, and body.
SOLD TO INTMDATR3 ON 03/04/06
#34700 - 12/07/05 12:11 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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Chris, remember what any of the wires you had to change were (function/pin location/color)? I do plan on getting some literature and even printing some of the things from chevythunder.com, but any information that I can get up front will be a big help.

Nick, does the Howell harness include an ECM/Prom?

Matt, I had already planned on buying that book, thanks.

Thanks everyone, keep the info coming. We need a TPI conversion section on the board. All the tuned port guys could contribute to put together a how-to (maybe one day I'll have something to contribute).


Dustin
87 SS
[Linked Image]
#34701 - 12/07/05 03:02 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Spider_carb Offline
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No, the Howell harness does not include a ECM.

#34702 - 12/07/05 04:27 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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ss4ever Offline
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I bought my harness from a guy on ebay. I got a NEW harness, used ECM, all new GM relays, wiring diagram, instuctions, new Memcal(chip) with emmisions and VATS deleted and his phone number to call if I ran into any problems. He was very helpfull but looking back I would have changed a few minor things with the harness, nothing big, but would make the harness look nicer underhood.

The guy started a website that he sells stuff through called http://www.eficonnection.com He sells fuel rails that relocate the fuel lines to the rear of the engine which would clean things up a bit IMO.

Randy


1983 Monte Carlo SS Turnkey ZZ4/700R4, Dakota Digital Instrument Cluster, 77k mile car. Many more mods to come soon.
#34703 - 12/07/05 07:18 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by NRW:
No, the Howell harness does not include a ECM.
I didn't think so, but the website shows the harness connected to an ECM.


Dustin
87 SS
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#34704 - 12/09/05 02:41 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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This system is coming from a 305. Would you guys suggest any initial mods for my Goodwrench 350 (stock except for headers)? Do I need to up the injector size or just up the pressure?


Dustin
87 SS
[Linked Image]
#34705 - 12/09/05 02:49 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Gruvin Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Duts87SS:
This system is coming from a 305. Would you guys suggest any initial mods for my Goodwrench 350 (stock except for headers)? Do I need to up the injector size or just up the pressure?
Get a set of 19# SVO injectors, they are cheap as heck and worth it... DO NOT up the pressure to compensate, I dont care what those cheapskates out there say, I would not run my injectors above 80% duty cycle just to say 150.00, and especially with USED parts... you never know how long they will last before you have to tear it apart to replace one or more that are leaking or not working at all... No thanks!


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
[Linked Image]
87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#34706 - 12/09/05 02:51 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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SlowBlackCar Offline
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where would i get a set of SVO injectors?



Monte SS...gone...

No more montes left... but I do have few Buicks...
#34707 - 12/09/05 02:59 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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Like these ?
or these ?


Dustin
87 SS
[Linked Image]
#34708 - 12/09/05 03:30 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Gruvin Offline
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The first set is new, the second set is used either will fit... The first set is capped on both ends to keep them clean. Highly recommend new over used...


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
[Linked Image]
87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#34709 - 12/09/05 03:34 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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Would the PROM need reprogramming for use with these injuctor since the # rating is the same? Also should I jump on these injectors now?


Dustin
87 SS
[Linked Image]
#34710 - 12/09/05 03:40 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Gruvin Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Duts87SS:
Would the PROM need reprogramming for use with these injuctor since the # rating is the same? Also should I jump on these injectors now?
105.00 buy it now is a very fair price. OPTIMALLY, the prom would need reprograming whether you use the increased pressure on stock injectors or up the injector size. Ford 19# injectors are more like 22# GM injectors so you are moving up to the 350 size at a cheaper rate than you would buying GM or aftermarket injectors like ACCEL, HTHs


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
[Linked Image]
87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#34711 - 12/09/05 03:58 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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I may be getting in over my head, but what would need to be changed in the programming since the injector constant would be the same?


Dustin
87 SS
[Linked Image]
#34712 - 12/09/05 07:25 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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TPI Monte SS Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gruvin84SS:
OPTIMALLY, the prom would need reprograming whether you use the increased pressure on stock injectors or up the injector size. Ford 19# injectors are more like 22# GM injectors so you are moving up to the 350 size at a cheaper rate than you would buying GM or aftermarket injectors like ACCEL, HTHs
Actually Jeremy, he's better off finding a set of 22s or 24s, especially for a 350. I have 19 lb. SVOs on my TPI 305, and according to the WB O2 readings from myd dyno runs and what my tuner says it's barely enough fuel.

Plus, the guys over on thirdgen.org have said that the flow ratings on the SVOs really are the same as every other brand; Ferd uses a lower PSI to run their motor, but the injectors are flowed at the same rate.


SSeeya,
Steve Ragusa - North Jersey
'88 SS - BudgetTourer - ZZ4-cammed 355 TPI, serpentine belt conversion, World Class 5-speed, 17" wheels, 12" front discs, Eibachs/Bilsteins, 1LE lower A-arms, tall lower balljoints, 34mm front swaybar, 3/4" straight rear bar, Celebrity headlights, and more. Sold on 2/28/11.
#34713 - 12/09/05 07:40 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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Thanks Steve,
I found a set of F@rd Racing (isn't that an oxymoron?) 24# injectors from the same Ebayer for $135 shipped.

Thanks again guys for all the help.


Dustin
87 SS
[Linked Image]
#34714 - 12/09/05 07:47 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Gruvin Offline
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Seve, I dont agree with the info listed about the SVO's being the same... Yes they use a lower PSI but remember that you are not! You will be using GM's PSI( 19#@Fords lower XXPSI so increase the PSI- increase the # - thats the reason people use AFPR to turn up the PSI)

Another reason I didnt suggest the 24# SVO's is the fact he is running a basicly stock Goodwrench 350, those make like 250HP with emissions headers which should be about the same as a stock TPI 350 from 1991... Lets also not forget the lower compression ratio, this will change fuel needs...

Finally, 24# SVOs need ALOT of PROM tuning to get them good on a Goodwrench motor... Ask me how I know...


My first SS! Sold Jan 2004
[Linked Image]
87 SS bought 9-5-04: Sold 6-18-2010 - project 87 finds a new home with another undisclosed MonteCarloSS.com member!
#34715 - 12/09/05 08:07 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Maybe I should just sell my TPI setup so I dont need to figure all this out...



Monte SS...gone...

No more montes left... but I do have few Buicks...
#34716 - 12/09/05 08:11 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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I dont have the TPI system yet (being pulled) nor do I have or have I used any tuning software, but would changing the injector constant not get you close when upgrading to larger injectors? Wouldn't this make the computer open the injectors for a shorter duration?

This setup wont be on the Goodwrench forever, so I was thinking that if i step up a bit over what I *need* now, I would have less to buy later on; not to say that I may need even bigger injectors later.

This isnt meant to offend, I just want to learn as much as I can before I get my hands dirty.


Dustin
87 SS
[Linked Image]
#34717 - 12/09/05 08:50 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87,

I'll sell my TPI that came off of a formula with a 350... with 22lb injectors ;\)



Monte SS...gone...

No more montes left... but I do have few Buicks...
#34718 - 12/09/05 08:59 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Duts87SS Offline
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I've already paid for the other one.


Dustin
87 SS
[Linked Image]
#34719 - 12/09/05 10:10 PM Re: TPI Conversion  
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Jeremy, here's an interesting post from TGO - http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=...+performance+SVO+injector

Basically, Rich at Cruzin' Performance (www.cruzinperformance.com) flowtested a set of SVO 36 lb. injectors at the GM rate of 43.5, and they did indeed put out the stated amount of 36 lb/hr. Check the 2nd post out in the thread for his flow numbers. If Ford really rated them at a lower PSI, they should have put out closer to 39 lbs.

I'd guess that if someone sent in a set of 30 lb. SVOs or 24s that they'd be the same as well. Most of these injectors are made by Bosch, and flowed at the industry standard of (43.5 PSI).

I still think he should go with the 24s, and just have the injector constant changed in the chip to 24 instead of 22. There are members on thirdgen.org are using the SVO 24s with no issues (other than the chip change).


SSeeya,
Steve Ragusa - North Jersey
'88 SS - BudgetTourer - ZZ4-cammed 355 TPI, serpentine belt conversion, World Class 5-speed, 17" wheels, 12" front discs, Eibachs/Bilsteins, 1LE lower A-arms, tall lower balljoints, 34mm front swaybar, 3/4" straight rear bar, Celebrity headlights, and more. Sold on 2/28/11.
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