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#1067120 - 07/01/20 05:36 PM Re: Back to life...SS on the road again! [Re: PB86SS/87LS]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,790
Travis Jones Offline
10+ Year
Travis Jones  Offline
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Ferndale, MI
Originally Posted by PB86SS/87LS
Planning a LY6/L96 with 4L80e, trying to get the "best" starting point although I know it will cost a little more, favoring cubes and cam for a more streetable powerband and wanting something to at least get started is more a tune/maybe cam without tearing into the motor, enough other things to work on for the swap itself to focus on. Since the car is a "blank slate" drivetrain wise the leading swap candidate is going LS, without a doubt.


Not trying to derail the conversation but, One thing to consider, the rec port LS3 style heads on an L96/LY6 are great and making lots of power up top, but they lack a little in the low and mid-range torque aspect compared to an LS6 head which will have higher compression on a stock shortblock. The LS3 heads are kind of pain because they cant be milled very much to increase compression due to the valve angle and PTV clearance. Just something to think on in a heavier car like a wagon.


86 SS 6.0L LQ4, TBSS intake, Summit Stage 3 NA Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Microsquirt ECU, FABbot AR5 5-speed, Eaton Truetrac 8.8 LSD, QA1 Lvl 3 Front Suspension, 3-link Rear suspension w/ UMI Control Arms, UMI Front & Rear Braces.
#1067121 - 07/01/20 09:39 PM Re: Back to life...SS on the road again! [Re: Tony K.]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 22
Tony K. Offline
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Tony K.  Offline
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Posts: 22
Jackson, MI
I appreciate all the advice, you know I work in computers all day long, SSH to this, VPN to that, RDP to that server, and to be perfectly honest I like the simplicity of the E4ME CCC system. I don't want to have another system that I need to connect to, another software, another cable to keep track of, and if I do a conversion its all on me or pay some one else. SSLance did a great job of keeping the CCC working and yet removing a ton of baggage from under the hood. So to leverage $1000's in investments already made (TES Headers, fully rebuilt 200-4R by PMAC in Houston, 2500 stall vigilante converter, ZZ4 PROM, new radiator and more) with the intended goal of 400-450 HP I will likely be sticking with a small block. Also trying to stick to mostly factory appearance under the hood. This keeps all accessories exactly the same, exhausts, CAT, all can be replaced with aftermarket replacements.


1985 SS original motor, 2004R Mike Kurts trans, 2500 precision industries converter, Edelbrock TES EDL-7979 coated headers, high flow cat. Camaro dual air intake. Firebird 16x8 wheels with custom spacers. Koni & Monroe VST front shocks. CC rear Moog CS5662 Iroc fronts. Bench Seat. Dynomax Exhaust. B-Body Master cylinder. Goodyear Highmiler hoses.
#1067122 - 07/01/20 10:52 PM Re: Back to life...SS on the road again! [Re: Tony K.]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,140
MAP Online content
15+ Year
MAP  Online Content
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,140
Yuma, AZ
Hi Tony,

That definitely gives helpful insight into your goals. It also reduces funding demands considerably, perhaps even below five figures. (You do know that Lance no longer uses CCC, btw?) I also take it you'd be happy with the rough NVH you'd get from your MCSS, assuming you'd switch to stiff performance tires? If so, it looks like you'll be in good shape to attain your goals.

Best,
MAP

#1067125 - 07/02/20 12:45 AM Re: Back to life...SS on the road again! [Re: Tony K.]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 12,283
PB86SS/87LS Offline
Administrator
20+ Year
PB86SS/87LS  Offline
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Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 12,283
New Berlin, WI
Good plan of attack and there are some others here who are running the stock system with pretty decent results. I’ll count myself in that group, Andy85SS(another former list member), quite a few more and as mentioned Lance used to.

Last edited by PB86SS/87LS; 07/02/20 12:46 AM.

-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42
-81'Grand LeMans Safari Wagon 3.8 2bbl/200C/2.73
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
[Linked Image]
#1067126 - 07/02/20 12:57 AM Re: Back to life...SS on the road again! [Re: Tony K.]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,235
SSLance Offline
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SSLance  Offline
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Peoria, AZ
Originally Posted by Tony K.
I appreciate all the advice, you know I work in computers all day long, SSH to this, VPN to that, RDP to that server, and to be perfectly honest I like the simplicity of the E4ME CCC system. I don't want to have another system that I need to connect to, another software, another cable to keep track of, and if I do a conversion its all on me or pay some one else. SSLance did a great job of keeping the CCC working and yet removing a ton of baggage from under the hood. So to leverage $1000's in investments already made (TES Headers, fully rebuilt 200-4R by PMAC in Houston, 2500 stall vigilante converter, ZZ4 PROM, new radiator and more) with the intended goal of 400-450 HP I will likely be sticking with a small block. Also trying to stick to mostly factory appearance under the hood. This keeps all accessories exactly the same, exhausts, CAT, all can be replaced with aftermarket replacements.



Excellent plan and I totally get it. The trick is keeping a cam in it that makes good vacuum and low end torque. The Ht383 cam is great for this, but the cast steel vortec heads that came on the HT383 limit you on lift above .488ish I believe if you ever want to upgrade the cam. Having just rebuilt my 383 yet once again I now understand these crate short blocks better than ever. If you have more specific questions about them, just fire away.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1067133 - 07/02/20 02:56 PM Re: Back to life...SS on the road again! [Re: MAP]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 22
Tony K. Offline
10+ Year
Tony K.  Offline
10+ Year
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 22
Jackson, MI
Originally Posted by MAP
Hi Tony,

That definitely gives helpful insight into your goals. It also reduces funding demands considerably, perhaps even below five figures. (You do know that Lance no longer uses CCC, btw?) I also take it you'd be happy with the rough NVH you'd get from your MCSS, assuming you'd switch to stiff performance tires? If so, it looks like you'll be in good shape to attain your goals.

Best,
MAP


Yes, I know that SSLance moved away from the CCC system but raced with it for years. I have 16"x8" Firebird wheels with 245-50-16, Yokohama tires on the car today and are pretty stiff. 600lb IROC springs with the 36mm hollow bar. The ride is pretty stiff, I think 17" or 18" tires will be as large as rim as I will install. The 12" 1LE rotors and the large B-Body calipers / master cylinder meet most of my braking needs. SSLance did a caliper swap early on which I need to review, as I remember they were aluminum.

I am considering the the HT383 short block. Large port Bowtie Vortec heads. GM Hot CAM, Edelbrock perfromer RPM airgap manifold for vortec. I plan on using a Davis unified distributor for CCC which should allow RPMS to 6K. Also considering a 400 or 427 small block short block from a few other vendors.


1985 SS original motor, 2004R Mike Kurts trans, 2500 precision industries converter, Edelbrock TES EDL-7979 coated headers, high flow cat. Camaro dual air intake. Firebird 16x8 wheels with custom spacers. Koni & Monroe VST front shocks. CC rear Moog CS5662 Iroc fronts. Bench Seat. Dynomax Exhaust. B-Body Master cylinder. Goodyear Highmiler hoses.
#1067136 - 07/03/20 03:04 AM Re: Back to life...SS on the road again! [Re: Tony K.]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,140
MAP Online content
15+ Year
MAP  Online Content
15+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,140
Yuma, AZ
Hi Tony,

245-50-16 was quite the performance ticket back in the late 1980s. It was the stock IROC size. Today, that size is getting hard to find. Tires for rims that are 17" or 18" in diameter are far more plenteous. Brakes have gotten much bigger, plus there's the simple fact that big rims have been the raging fashion for many years now. Male jewelry, if you will(!) Assuming you conserve tire OD, each inch in rim diameter growth means half an inch less sidewall height, and my experience is that the resulting increase in sidewall stiffness is quite noticeable (as is the sharper steering response, on the plus side.) If you decrease sidewall height but also reduce the speed rating of the tire, you may somewhat conserve ride quality as well as steering response.

You didn't mention what bushings you're using in the suspension and between the body and the frame: these also have a big effect on NVH.

Chances are if you're OK with how the car rides now, then you might still be OK (+/-) with how the car will ride with 2020-epoch rims and tires. But it's still risky. How about experimenting on a single axle to see if you like the results, before committing to a full 4-wheel swap? BTW if you choose different aspect ratios for the front and rear tires, the larger of the two definitely belongs on the rear axle for various reasons. Just watch tire OD.

HTH,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 07/03/20 06:08 AM.
#1067137 - 07/03/20 05:15 AM Re: Back to life...SS on the road again! [Re: Tony K.]  
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,863
mmc427ss Online content
20+ Year
mmc427ss  Online Content
20+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,863
Pottstown, Pa
Tony, is your web page still up anymore? Looked for it but think it's gone. I'm going to email you a few pics of the last 20 years of playing. Our two cars along with several other Listers followed close paths of mods. We need to update.

Although frowned upon I still run the B spindle but it has been modified several times to improve most of it's faults. The 12" B brakes are still a very good street setup especially when you install the Wilwood D52 caliper and an hp pad. It will stop as good as a bigger and much more expensive brake swap with the exception of a road course beating. Also the weight savings of the alum caliper and the Stoptech rotors is significant. A notable brake guy said 14" cast rotors is just much bigger flywheel that need to slow down, the reason the real expensive huge rotors are carbon these days. I've run the Wilwood D52 and Stop Tech slotted 1LE rotors with Hawk HP pads and can say it's powerful, and a 6.75 lb weight saving on each corner, which is huge. Let me know if you need some help there.

The Davis dist may have plug sockets for 87-88 engines, be sure to be year specific when you talk to them. I run a Davis coil in a modified Pertronix HEI with vac advance, old school, it has no module, just a pickup to run a J&S Safeguard You may remember that J&S from back in the day There is not much special about the Davis over the original stock other than the coil and the module, and hopefully top quality. I would lean toward maybe a coil upgrade with quality cap and rotor, put the money in the shortblock instead. Also the original ZZ4 PROM works well with CCC and bigger engines.

When i couldn't afford the LS7 install 15 years ago a Dart 427 SBC was built, the truck engine. As Lance said the fun is grunt down low, rarely do you need to wind it out to 6K+. As with some things more is better, cubic inch being one of them. Power adders are nice but clutter things up under the hood pretty quickly.

Lucky for us Gen 1 SBC owner there is not a Magnuson huffer that bolts onto the antique engine, and the hood closes. There would be a lot of old cars keeping up with the Joneses.
Bob

Last edited by mmc427ss; 07/03/20 05:22 AM.
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