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#1066506 - 05/21/20 04:19 AM Console lid hinge repair  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Sun afternoon opened the console lid to retrieve a CD and found the lid's plastic hinge was 95% broke, hinge junk. The original lid has been long gone, this was a GM lid installed in 2000. The lid cushion is still very nice, I was nice to it cause I knew it had to last a long time. But the hinge was totally unexpected, go figure.

Shopped the available replacements, WOW OEM salty and almost extinct, imports are cheaper and cheaper, OPG version is also very pricey and a redesign not crazy about. Those options eliminated, what's the fix.

Searched all the usual places for the G console lid fix and, Nada.
Did the measuring and found sources for a continuous hinge, piano hinge, in the size and metal of my choice. A few minor problems with a screw down hinge install is there is really nothing to screw into to attach the hinge, and the other minor detail is the screw head cannot project higher than the leaf. The leafs need to touch 100% for the lid to close easily. So now looking at a glue down install.

Looking for an alternative, remembered my model airplanes days, not the Dope days, probably 13-14 when I first got a room full of that stuff. Crashed that airplane too.I stumbled upon this stuff, kinda like the hinge in the airplane stabilizer.
https://www.talon.com.au/Hinge

This hinge is a glue down install, no fasteners. Recently bought was 3M 2216 Epoxy, another salty product, for the Tacoma bumper repair. I'm running an adhesion test of that Epoxy on the backside of lid plastic. The plan at this point is to Ebay me the carbon/kevlar hinge to look at, but the auction shows a 3 week delivery. The Carbon/Kevlar hinge shows up in several places state side but all are reselling Talon, an Australian company. But it appears nobody has the hinge in stock.

That hinge can be cut/trimmed even though it's carbon fiber with Kevlar. The leafs would need cut down the length of both sides, 2 x 12" to reduce leaf from ,709" to about .400" wide. No small feat. I'm hoping I can get a custom size right out of AU for reasonable. Shipping from AU was the same price as the product when I last checked. OUCH.

Tomorrow will make a phone call to see when the next boat load of hinges is expected. Pretty neat product, can't wait to have it in my hand. Will use the 3M 2216 and do the hard side first. Setup time on the epoxy is 90 minutes, 24 hr but the more the merrier. The lid's plastic is soft, not a hard ABS, not perfectly straight either. Lots of clamping will be needed and dealing with the ooze. The Kevlar is the actual hinge, really cool. Keeping the epoxy off the Kevlar "pin" will make or break the install. Not really looking for another project but need to have a console lid.

Was hoping for a simple fix other than 275 bucks for a new GM lid that would still need painted.
Bob

#1066514 - 05/21/20 04:59 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Was going to call Australia at 1am last night to talk to the owner of the business that makes the carbon hinge but at 1.50 a minute decided to call the FL distributor this morning. Great guy, answered all my questions and shipped me out a 1' piece today. So looks like the door hinge repair will be done early next week. He say a pair of good scissors will cut both the carbon fiber and Kevlar easily so I can trim the hinge easily.

Then I'll be able to say I added a little carbon fiber to my car.
Bob

#1066515 - 05/21/20 07:56 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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We fixed ours with a piano hinge and a steel plate. I have pics, but cant post them easily due to the great photobucket theft. PM me your email and I will send pics.

The problem is both a hinge problem and the fact that the lid is not rigid. So we took the lid apart and inserted a steel plate to get a rigid base for the lid. Then put in a piano hinge.

Here is our original post on the subject. I can send the pics via email if you want.

http://www.montecarloss.com/communi...;Main=89569&Number=858344#Post858344


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1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#1066516 - 05/21/20 09:06 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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SSLance Offline
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I recently picked up some Gorilla Glue epoxy that is the Shiznit. I used it to repair a broken plastic headlight housing mount and its stronger than OE. Since then have used it in a couple other projects and its amazing stuff. Good luck with hinge fix Bob...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1066520 - 05/22/20 01:17 AM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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#1066523 - 05/22/20 04:41 AM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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If I couldn't get that carbon fiber/Kevlar hinge I had already picked out a piano hinge I was going to use. How I was going to attach it, screws or glue wasn't sure of the method. The problem with a piano hinge is there is only a 3/8" surface on either side to attach it. A .025" or .032" x 3/4" x 11 3/4" hinge in alum or stainless was what I was going to use, 3/8" leaf.
What I like about the Carbon hinge is it's lack of a pin and knuckle to deal with and the carbon leafs will lay flat against each other with no pin and knuckle protruding, Can't wait to open and close that hinge, it's cool.

Have used many epoxies but not that Gorilla one, will keep my eye out for it. The 3M 2216 I'm using was recommend to me by a body shop friend, and it's gray.
Bob

#1066525 - 05/22/20 02:21 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Hi Bob,

I am sending you an email with pictures to the email you have listed in your profile.


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1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#1066526 - 05/22/20 07:34 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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I did the piano hinge thing on one of my lids, I bought both my Monte's new GM lids in the early to mid 00's, one started peeling up more than the other after a few years, I barely use(d) them, just a mediocre design. The other has held up better. The hinges aren't too noticeable and do the job. I recently saw a NOS lid go through ebay and forgot to bid at the end, think it only went for like $60-70, way less than what the norm is. So deals can be found, just have to be patient and of course be on the lookout.

Last edited by PB86SS/87LS; 05/22/20 07:35 PM.

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#1066528 - 05/22/20 08:55 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Matt, I got the emailed pics, thanks.

Here's OPGs version of the lid.
https://www.opgi.com/interior-acces...-monte-carlomalibuel-camino-l240527.html

Looks like Mike is selling almost the same lid for less. The black hinge actually looks OK
https://www.mikesmontes.com/New-Maroon-Console-Door-Lid-with-Hinge_p_656.html

And if you want an OEM Mike has a few.
https://www.mikesmontes.com/GM-NOS-Black-Console-Lid-with-Hinge_p_361.html

I wanted to kinda duplicate what the original hinge looked like with nothing showing on the outside when closed. The knuckles of a piano hinge need to be outside the lid and the thickness when the hinge is closed is fairly thick. Looked at pics of how GM did the hinge back in the old days with a steel piano hinge. My 72 SS console lid hinge was steel.

I'm guessing when GM was told they needed to make the cars a little lighter in 1978 one of the things to go was the console steel hinge. Replaced with nothing but a 11 3/4" long thin plastic. You know usually the type of plastic the part is made from will be molded along with the date codes on the back side of a part. Lots of date codes on lid side of the plastic part but no plastic type. Doing an adhesion test of the epoxy I'm using next to one of those date codes, need to see how good it stuck after a lengthy cure.
Bob

#1066531 - 05/23/20 01:21 AM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Like you say, our piano hinge does show, and does not look like a perfect OEM repair. Our hinge failure problem was due to two things - the quality of the hinge and our normal practice of getting in the car and using the console as an elbow rest to readjust our butts in the seat. That weight on the console caves in the lid and causes the hinge to stress. That is why we added a steel plate between the foam rubber and the bottom plastic shell of the lid.


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1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#1066532 - 05/23/20 02:19 AM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Now having my car almost 30 years you just wait for the next part to replace or fix. That lid was getting close to 20 years since replaced. I. we, don't use it other than storage, and if the car goes on a long trip a gray towel would go on top to keep your forearm from extended touching. My processor that runs the engine is in the console which takes up 1/3 of the compartment width, 5 CDs and the wheel lock key about it. That key lives there and can honestly say retrieving the key a zillion times is probably what wore the hinge out. HUH.
Bob

#1066533 - 05/23/20 04:59 AM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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I bought a new complete arm rest with the console part for $79 from Mikes. It is hard plastic but has the proper looking texture. I'm going to cover anyway so it works. The hinge is nice and solid feeling He has them in other colors for 10 more.


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#1066570 - 05/25/20 03:32 AM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Surprisingly the carbon/kevlar hinge showed up UPS on Sat morning, ordered on Thurs, only two days from Fl. Shipping was expensive but the packaging was WAY overkill, they could have shipped 50 lb of steel in that box. Hinge weighs about 1 oz. and isn't fragile.

Once at the shop Sat a pair of small sheetmetal shears was dressed to cut each 3/4" leaf down to 7 /16" width to fit the install, that was 24" of trimming. Patience and yes that carbon and the Kevkar required a sharp cutter with good leverage to get cleanly through it an 1/8" at a time, it kinda pops at certain places in the Carbon fiber. First time for me playing with carbon fiber. Then onto the belt sander to lightly dress the cuts and finished with some 80 emery in hand. Next step was to flex the hinge a zillion times, to free up the Kevlar "pin". It's was a little sticky at first but got better the more you completely close it and finger crimp the Kevlar. The hinge will close completely flat about .062" thick. Always had a penchant for neat stuff. This hinge is pretty cool, exactly as described and will do exactly what I want as long as I get it to stick to the lid's plastic. This particular hinge is the thinnest they sell, .032" leaf thickness, and is designed/sold as a glue down.

To help the epoxy adhesion to the plastic at the hinge contact area, 3/8"x 12" both sides, the plastic area was drilled 1/8" about 1/2" apart then the bottom side of the hole was countersunk a little to give more bite to the epoxy going into the hole. Scuffed the plastic and bonding side of the hinge with 220, washed with brake clean then alcohol. Took a piece of Gorilla packing tape and covered the bottom of those 24 holes to keep the epoxy from oozing out them. Mixed up the epoxy and filled the 24 holes first them spread a thin coat on the plastic area. A 12" piece of 1/4 x 1 alum on the bottom and a 12" piece of 5/16" key stock on top, three C-clamp and the first side of the hinge now sitting for several days, won't do the other side until late next week. 3M says 7 days for full cure of that expensive 2216 epoxy.

My only fear is adhesion to the plastic, fingers crossed. The hinge itself is perfect for the job, and cool looking.
Bob

#1066575 - 05/25/20 04:50 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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SSLance Offline
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PIcs?


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1066580 - 05/25/20 08:29 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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I'll send you some pics when the epoxy is cured.

Need to look into that Gorilla stuff, it's a very quick set and cure time. Have always been a PC7 guy, waterproof, don't care for JB Weld, also had a few specific manufacturer epoxies that came with a few appliance parts kits. This $57 3M 2216 is supposed to be assume stuff, but a 7 day full cure? Have a few samples, left overs from a couple glue jobs, on the pallets to see how they cure over time. We'll see.
Bob

#1066586 - 05/26/20 01:00 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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I used the Gorilla Glue epoxy to glue a plastic handle back onto a steel spatula, then used that spatula on the grill that night...and just about every night after as well. Plus, it dries clear.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1066636 - 05/29/20 11:40 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Glued the other 1/2 of the lid to the hinge today, First side was clamped for 6 days, this side will be next Fri before I get a good look at the end product. Can say a few things about the first side glued.The 24 or so 1/8" holes drilled to aid adhesion worked out well as far as appearance goes and the slight countersink of the hole looks like it will really help the adhesion. A piece of clear gorilla tape was put on the bottom of the holes and epoxy forced into the holes with a flat blade, the clear tape allowed inspection of the holes for complete filing.

The hinge is two leafs about 3/4" wide and about a 1/2" wide piece of Kevlar sandwiched between two layers of the each leaf. a 1/4" into each leaf. The Kevlar is the flex point. Epoxy bled through the carbon about at the edge of the Kevlar, in a very small area. None where the Kevlar is in the leaf, just along it's edge for a short distance, didn't expect that. Some epoxy was also on the kevlar's "pin" area but was able to clean it off and hinge still worked great, closed completely before start of second leaf glue down.

In another week will know if this is a permanent repair of the lid.
Bob

#1066639 - 05/30/20 11:43 AM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Interesting fix, Bob. Can you post a picture when you have time?


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#1066640 - 05/30/20 02:54 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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I'll show it to you at Carlisle, like that is going to happen. Chevrolet Nationals is scheduled for June 26-27, and it will also be a 50 year Monte Carlo celebration. Go figure, finally have a possible larger gathering of Montes and will need to park them 2 car lengths apart. Owners requiring masks, cars requiring bras. Hadn't even given any thoughts about attending this year, figured like all car and sports events it wasn't going to happen.

One of the local 100 year old ballrooms from the big band days has a large parking lot. They brought back the drive-in movie in their parking lot, socially distance prevails, every other space, no restrooms, food delivered to the car by a masked person. PA is slow to recover from this inflicted pandemic, if ever.

Lid is clamped and laying on a bench until next Fri. Will take pics when the clamps come off.
Bob

#1066653 - 05/31/20 12:51 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Looks like Carlisle is still on but I’m taking this year off. I’m hoping the virus situation improves by September for the Street Rods show in Vermont.


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#1066656 - 05/31/20 02:59 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Maybe UMI in the Fall?
Bob

#1066674 - 06/02/20 12:41 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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I am also out for Carlisle this year. No car show is worth the risk. And if what I have seen on Face Book of car gatherings is any indication of people abiding by the CDC recommendations, Carlisle will be not be safe. We have a room at the host hotel for UMI. But if there isn't an effective treatment that will keep me from dying if I get the COVID, them I'm out.

Last edited by Crusher; 06/02/20 12:50 PM.

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#1066681 - 06/03/20 02:59 AM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Hi Kevin.
As with the state of the union yesterday, today and tomorrow life is on hold well into the foreseeable future, so car events fall way down on the list for me as well. Us here being a part of that older compromised group are also more cautious.
With lots of time and no where to go spending time on car projects in the shop will be the norm for now. Taking an occasional cruise in the 86 into the high country just to put some miles on it will happen, hopefully.

Can say that I haven't washed the car yet this year, did two cruises and a trip to Sonic. Although the car is black, it has this yellow tint to it from being out side numerous times. Is that patina?

Was really looking forward to Carlisle this year, and UMI's track events. Hopefully there will be a next year.
Bob

Two more days until the clamps come off the console lid.

#1066705 - 06/05/20 10:15 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Well project done. It opens and closes like new, lays flat, doesn't show anything outside at the hinge pin area. Exactly as I hoped it would look and fit. It's already reinstalled on the console. The test will be over time how well the epoxy holds fast to the original plastic. Drilling 24 holes in each side of the hinge area for more epoxy bite should help with adhesion.
Bob

#1066706 - 06/05/20 10:46 PM Re: Console lid hinge repair [Re: mmc427ss]  
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Looks good Bob!


Lance
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