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#1053312 - 09/10/17 02:00 AM coil overs  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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Traverse City Michigan
Hoping to get some feed back/direction on coil overs.

I have been eyeing up the viking coil overs, are they any good?

Im not concerned with making my car a corner carver. If anything I would like to keep the spring rates around stock or maybe even a little softer? I want the car to cruise down the road comfortably, and when I go to the track I can just adjust the shocks and have a better set up then im running now (Trimmed stock springs/bilsteins).

Id also like to have around a 2-3" drop over stock. should I be looking at qa1/ridetech/any other brand? This stuffs pretty new to me but the direction I want to head next with my car. My biggest goal is to get my 60' below 1.75, which I have not been able to do thus far. I would also like the adjust ability in the stance.


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1053315 - 09/10/17 02:48 AM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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SSLance Offline
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Peoria, AZ
In order to be really happy with the ride, you need to either lower the bottom mount or raise the top mou bt on front shocks. UMI and Ridetech maje LCAs that lower bottom mount bolt in and Speedtech makes a wwld in kit to raise top mount. Decide thus first.

UMI has several cu stomers very adapt at drag racing, they can help with picking a shock for that and street driving. Although I believe a Ridetech shock shot car just won Grand Champion at LSFest which includes drag racing.

You can pick any spring rate you like, that's the beauty of coilovers...pock your poison...you need to pick a shock that has the travel you need for a good ride and the valving you can adjust to get it to hook.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053320 - 09/10/17 02:07 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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These were the kits I was looking at. For the fronts, it has this note:

Ride height info: The G-body and S-10 platform is very sensitive to ride height vs spring rate. Contact us if you are interested in lowering further than 1-1/2" below stock. We will tend to use the A234 shock and advise on proper spring rates. High rate springs may not allow as much drop as you desire.

Is this why you recommend the different mounting of the coil over to get a taller shock? If umi offers a shorter shock that will offer the drop I want and still function the way I need them too could I still go this route? I already have tubular control arms, uppers and lowers but are basically just stock replacements. Because of how little I use my car I was hoping to retain them and just be able to get a coil over that would work.

I will start looking at the other brands/kits now though and see what my options are.



http://umiperformance.com/catalog/i...o&cPath=8_57_326&products_id=885



http://umiperformance.com/catalog/i..._info&cPath=8_58&products_id=912


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1053324 - 09/10/17 03:45 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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SSLance Offline
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Peoria, AZ
You will drive your car even less after you dump a bunch of money into a coil over kit that attempts to use a shorter shock...or beehive springs...and fails.

These cars front suspension travels...period. When you lower the ride height you reduce the amount it can travel without bottoming or topping out hard. Bottoming a shock out is hard on everything, but mostly your butt.

Get a kit that allows you to use the same length travel shock as the amount you want to lower the car, you will be much happier.

Personally, since you are replacing parts anyway, why not put a lower control arm on that will also greatly improve the way the car corners? The new stuff that moves the lower ball joint out and forward is AWESOME with no ill effects. They fix both issues, allow you to lower the car and still maintain a great ride plus make it corner MUCH better.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1053325 - 09/10/17 04:14 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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http://www.speedtechperformance.com...=407/category_id=96/mode=prod/prd407.htm

would this be an option worth considering? I have welding/fab skills so would not be opposed to this. The big thing keeping my from changing the control arms and everything is cost. I do not do any competing with this car, and just like to go to the local track test and tune 1-2 times a year. I drive it less then 500 miles a summer.


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1053326 - 09/10/17 05:11 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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When dropping a G body 2-3" lower than stock without doing something like a drop spindle you run out of compression travel from ride height, more a problem in the front suspension than the rear. Also clearances under the car, exhaust, crossmember, bell housing are decreased. You don't want to end up with a car that scraps bottom when leaving the driveway. To often you see slammed cars that have no compression travel. The slammed Honda Civic that has a suspension like a go cart, zero travel, basically solid, may look cool but really just handles poorly and rides like a concrete block being drag down the highway. This is why doing something with the LCA and UCA to allow good suspension articulation has been the direction the sport has move toward today.

The Chicane upper mount is one of those products. LCAs with adjustable coilover height adjustments is another. The idea is to build a larger range of suspension travel while avoiding bottoming out travel. Lowering the CG and improving RC hopefully is the result. Having to not worry about the undercarriage of the car sparking as when go for a Sun drive is the other goal.

As far as Viking goes their shocks have been on my car for three years now with no issues, they aren't coilovers, just a double adjust.. I did have to send the fronts back to them to be shortened 3/8" to avoid bottoming the shock. They have since introduced several deviations for our cars to cover applications.
I do change the shock set ups between different venues, street, strip, autox, the reason I went with the DA shocks.

We installed Viking coilovers on the front of a friend's 67 Camaro, I just don't drive that car enough to have an opinion on his setup, other than he runs a much softer setup than I prefer.
Bob

#1053327 - 09/10/17 05:28 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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Traverse City Michigan
I like the ride height I have in the front of my car right now. From the ground to the front fender lip is 26 1/4". Any Idea how much lower that is then stock? I have stock trimmed springs up front.

The rear I would like to drop another inch, its around 28 1/2" from the ground to the lip.

Should I just start with the rear coil overs and lower control arm relocation brackets, and just get some double adjustable shocks for the front? Or should I not waste money on double adjustable shocks and do the chicane setup? Like I said, I'm happy with the height of the front end, My biggest concern is weight transfer at the track and being able to get the rear wheel lips down to the 27.5" off the ground neighborhood.


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1053329 - 09/10/17 10:32 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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SSLance Offline
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Peoria, AZ
You can put adjustable spring perches in the rear pretty reasonable and use stock car type springs to adjust the rear ride height. I did that on my car before I put the coil overs on. If you want to search back in my build thread, I did that around June of 2013 during Stage 1.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1055676 - 02/06/18 05:09 AM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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Traverse City Michigan
I’m getting close to ordering coil overs and think I’m going to go with the Vikings front and rear with the rear lower control arm relocation brackets. Is any one from umi on this site, I thought I saw Ramey on here before? I’d like to talk to someone knowledgeable about g body springs ect for adjusting height I want and spring rates that would work best for what I use my car for. (Just cruising, but want it to work well at drag strip)


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1055684 - 02/06/18 02:30 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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SSLance Offline
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SSLance  Offline
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Peoria, AZ
I bet you'll be hearing from Ramey soon...


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1055690 - 02/06/18 03:53 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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ramey36 Offline
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Philipsburg, PA
Hey guys. I'm here.

Depending on what engine is in your car we usually use 350 (light engine) or 450 (heavier engine) for drag cars. Our back the UMI kit works best with the 110 rear spring. We have even gone lighter as the spring is relocated behind the axle which makes the wheel rate higher (i.e. 110 spring gets you a 140 at the axle). I've used 100, 95, 90, 80 on drag cars.

As mentioned above, the hybrid coil is a good solution with a good value at the expense of travel and some friction. For what they are, they work awesome. The Green Machine even runs them on occasion with good success. Also, we often do the Crusader valve and can get some pretty good performance.

You can hit me at ramey@umiperformance.com or 814-376-6000. If I'm on the line or away from my desk, please leave a message and I promise to return your call. Sometimes the phone almost melts in a day.

ramey

#1055700 - 02/06/18 08:42 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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Thanks Lance,

Ramey I'll e-mail you, thanks!


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1055926 - 02/16/18 12:52 AM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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Traverse City Michigan
Well the orders been placed, I cant wait for them to get here!


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1055929 - 02/16/18 03:36 AM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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SSLance Offline
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Peoria, AZ
Woot!!


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1056035 - 02/21/18 10:16 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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I got the rear vikings installed, with the umi lower control arm relocation brackets. I ran in to an unexpected issue now though, the stock sway bar hangs so low because of the control arms being lower. Its always something!


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1056036 - 02/21/18 10:26 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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Traverse City Michigan
[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1056038 - 02/21/18 11:09 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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SSLance Offline
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Peoria, AZ
I'm certain that Ramey has a cure for that ill as well... laugh

I know what I'd do, but I use my car differently than you do so your actions may differ. wink


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1056039 - 02/21/18 11:37 PM Re: coil overs [Re: SSLance]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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Originally Posted by SSLance
I'm certain that Ramey has a cure for that ill as well... laugh

I know what I'd do, but I use my car differently than you do so your actions may differ. wink


Chassis mounted sway bar?


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1056053 - 02/22/18 04:05 AM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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SSLance Offline
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Yup... UMI has a couple different rear bars for G body. Ask Ramey what's best for you.

I run without one so aren't much help here.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1056058 - 02/22/18 05:47 AM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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mmc427ss Offline
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Yes when you do the LCA relocation and drop the LCA at the rear the bar does sit lower. The only one piece bar that bolts to the LCA and looks and fits ok that I've found was the rare 78-79 G-body 3/4" straight bar, but they are non existent now. I ran one for several years.

Today the choice is a link bar. They are available from several venders in a few bar thicknesses. I've got the Spohn PT bar, 7/8" which was a little bit of a PITA to install. One ear on the 8 1/2 had to be removed from the rear, the other trimmed, one link is very close to a tailpipe. I adjust mine pretty often, street and autox full soft, drags full stiff. And also LCA relocation was done to improve the IC, I made my own brackets. For the street I run 1 1/2" lower than stock, 2 1/2" for the drags. It takes about 3/4 hours to change the rear setup, on a lift it would be much quicker.

I couple notes about the link bars. Some offer a very large diameter link bar for drag racing, smaller bar for the street. I find to much bar in the rear I don't like, seems to be more tail happy. Big is better for drags, not so much for just tooling around.

To adjust the rate on the adjustable bars you move the link to the new location, loosen the U-bolts on the rear end tubes, rotate them to make the links perpendicular and tighten the U-bolts. Didn't care for that procedure. So new brackets were fabbed for the frame side of the link, three holes so all you do is remove two bolts, go to the other side remove bolts and reinstall to new holes, reinstall the other bolts. This why the links are always perpendicular and you don't touch the U-bolts.

One thing you need to check is rotation of the bar from full droop to full bump in the softest and firmest bar settings. You will be surprised how much the bar moves closer and farther away for the center section. That was one of the reasons I did the frame brackets with three hole.
I can only speak about the Spohn bar installed. If you look at the different shapes of the available link bars it appears the UMI bar may not have the center section clearance problem. Can't speak about how it fits.

UMI and Spohn both sell a PT and a drag link bar.

For shocks Viking has been installed for several years now, you'll love how easy it is to tweak both comp and rebound,

Jason I can send you some pics of the bar install.
Bob

#1056062 - 02/22/18 03:15 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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MC96 Offline
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St. Johns MI
I have a QA1 bar, what a pain in the xxxx to install.

You have to spread these little clamps to slide them onto the bar, it becomes a juggling act hammering chisels or screwdrivers into each clamp and getting everything lined up.

If the little clamps were already "sprung" open it would be so much simpler, then cinched into place wit the bolt.

I will say the design of the little clamp allowed me to flip the forward ones upside down and get the bar closer to the housing, as I have mounts with the drop built into them.


86 SS
400SBC, 4l80e, MSD Atomic injection/trans controller, Tilt glass clip, all tubular arms, corvette brakes, 9" rear
In progress
#1056070 - 02/23/18 02:39 AM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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I'm undecided what I'm going to do at this point. I'd like to order the umi bar, but may have to save a few pennies first. I may try to modify an f body bar to work for now.

I know the car would benefit from a good bar like the umi or spohn so I I may have to bite the bullet.

Set the pinion angle tonight and centered the axle, going to do the front install tomorrow.


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
#1056083 - 02/25/18 12:15 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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axld Offline
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lakeland,fl
subscribed to this one. suspension upgrades next on list, doing brake upgrades as of now. Onebad bowtie86, did the kit come with the LCA brackets and the coil over relocation brackets? also what are you using to post pics?

Last edited by axld; 02/25/18 12:16 PM.

86 SS . Custom Paint. Built 6.0 with LS3 Top End .TSP Custom grind cam. FITECH ecu and harness.TKO 600 5 spd. Quick 9'' / 3.70 Gearing. ZQ8 Spindles. KORE3 12.8'' frt Brake Kit. UMI Rear Adjustable UCA. Rear LCA. UMI Front Chassis Bar. UMI rear shock tower brace. BMR Coil Springs. BMR Rear Sway Bar. N90 17'' Wheels . . SO FAR..............lol.
#1056084 - 02/25/18 12:27 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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axld Offline
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lakeland,fl
well I clicked on the link and saw they are all one unit,.lol. still wanting to know the difference in ride quality stock vs coil over .and how much lower you can get the CG. ( my car looks like a 4x4 to me after I installed advertised 1.5'' drop springs , swear the car went up!).

Last edited by axld; 02/25/18 12:28 PM.

86 SS . Custom Paint. Built 6.0 with LS3 Top End .TSP Custom grind cam. FITECH ecu and harness.TKO 600 5 spd. Quick 9'' / 3.70 Gearing. ZQ8 Spindles. KORE3 12.8'' frt Brake Kit. UMI Rear Adjustable UCA. Rear LCA. UMI Front Chassis Bar. UMI rear shock tower brace. BMR Coil Springs. BMR Rear Sway Bar. N90 17'' Wheels . . SO FAR..............lol.
#1056087 - 02/25/18 07:01 PM Re: coil overs [Re: Onebadbowtie86]  
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Onebadbowtie86 Offline
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Traverse City Michigan
I'll post a pic this evening of how the car sits, I'm using flickr for pictures.

I have the springs adjusted about half way up the shock bodys now I believe and the cars pretty low, 27.5" in rear and 26" in the front , which can be adjusted up or down from those points.


'86 Monte carlo ss-Frame off resto-mod.
Ls2/t56/8.5"
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