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#1052524 - 07/23/17 12:37 PM couple Q's about going non CCC  
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chevelle502 Offline
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chevelle502  Offline
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Dundalk. MD
Hi all,

trying to get parts together for going non CCC with my 88ss. For those that have done this, what carb and dizzy did you go with. read the thread and no one really said what size carb is a good fit for the stock 305. I saw a holley 4175 that has the side inlet and elec choke on summit, spread-bore flange, for about 500. I'm guessing vac adv. dizzy. Just looking to see what everyone's opinion is.

Thanks,

Chuck


1988 Monte Carlo SS
Black w/T-tops
Mods: Jet stage 2 chip, 2.5" cat back with flow super 44's, chrome valve covers, custom interior from a 2003 Monte SS, 3.73 posi rear (waiting to install), re-built tranny, Elec fan setup, Msd Ignition, LED Headlights
http://chucks88ss.tripod.com/Montepics/index.album?i=1
#1052525 - 07/23/17 02:55 PM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: May 2007
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Buick Runner Offline
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Buick Runner  Offline
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Dharma station 1 the Hydra
Especially with using the stock 305, you are better off keeping the CCC system. Switching over to non CCC will not increase power and will just lower MPGs. Many times, people will blame a problem on the CCC when it is more often a underlying problem with the engine itself such as vacuum leaks.

If you are looking for more power, the money is better spent on headers or a cam swap.

Also get rid of the extreme lid, all it does is reduce low and mid throttle power by reducing the air pressure differential.

Last edited by Buick Runner; 07/23/17 03:00 PM.

SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1052530 - 07/23/17 06:23 PM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: Mar 2003
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TooSlow406 Offline
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Dickinson, TX
"Also get rid of the extreme lid, all it does is reduce low and mid throttle power by reducing the air pressure differential."

YES!!!!! I can't stress enough how right this statement is. I see way too many people with flow-thru tops. But I understand- it sure seems like its a good thing to have. Had one
on my first monte. But dyno shows carbs like air coming over a curve and then down, then straight down.

I'd also agree with BR's other statement about cam or headers. Or even intake. Unless you're just hell-bent on removing all the computer lines and hoses, go with something that
will actually make power.

That being said, my personal opinion is "don't spend money twice". So I wouldnt buy a spreadbore carb with choke. I'd eventually want to go faster, so I'd buy a squarebore intake
and a holley double pumper. I went Mallory distributor, but MSD is just as good. Non-vac advance.

Last edited by TooSlow406; 07/23/17 06:28 PM. Reason: added info

1985 Monte 406sbc, RHS ported 220s, Schoenfeld 1 3/4", 3" exhaust, Dynomax Ultra-Flo, Holley ported Strip Dominator, Dual Holley Blues, Holley HP 950, Comp roller 236/245, .570/.574
#1052536 - 07/24/17 12:07 AM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
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axisg Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
My vote if you absolutely want to ditch the CCC would be pre 1980 Qjet and Distributor from a chev ( so the fuel inlet is on the same side ). Wire up a toggle switch for the OD function. This way you can keep the factory cold air intake from the SS. As well since you likely still have the o2 sensor so pick up an air/fuel ration gauge. Its invaluable in tuning in the qjet for optimal performance & economy.

There will be no gains in going with anything else but a qjet. I had a holley on my car and it was an excellent carb but an absolute PIA to set up all the linkages and geometry. Then due to clearance I had to top it all off with an open element air cleaner that would pull all the hot air from under the hood into the engine killing power and fuel economy. Ran great when cold, and miserable when hot and in traffic.


TES Headers - done !
new cat-back exhaust - done !
5.7 swap - done !
3.73 posi rear - done !
blazer front brakes - done !
LS1 Rear Brakes - done!
transmission - rebuilt !
now looking for a replacement rear
__________________________________


#1052537 - 07/24/17 02:09 AM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: Dec 2007
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SSLance Offline
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SSLance  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,235
Peoria, AZ
^ What he said... Love my 1977 Q-jet and MSD 6530 box with locked out MSD distributor.


Lance
1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car
#1052544 - 07/24/17 03:05 PM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 97
800rmk Offline
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800rmk  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 97
Mayerthorpe, AB
I recently rebuilt a vortec headed 355 with a 215/225 dur cam and kept the CCC system. Removed the EGR, air pump, etc. The car runs excellent. Very happy with the performance and will get 20 mpg on the highway if I keep it at 60 mph. It was so easy to tune also with the CCC. My vote is keep the CCC if its all in tact and you are not looking for really high hp.


1985 Monte Carlo SS Vortec headed 355, Howards 215/225 cam, 200r4 with trans go kit,Patriot headers and magnaflow mufflers, 7.5" 3:73 diff
soon to install: 8.5 inch diff from 84 Olds 442
#1052552 - 07/24/17 07:28 PM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
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88ss408 Offline
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88ss408  Offline
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miramichi, NB
Depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.the cheapest way is to get a non ccc qjet and vacuum advance HEI.
but I you want some improvementsort you can go with a square bore intake and carb.


1988 monte carlo ss 408 sbc
-----------------------------------------------------
1984 monte carlo cs 400 sbc
#1052575 - 07/25/17 08:54 PM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,646
chevelle502 Offline
15+ Year
chevelle502  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,646
Dundalk. MD
I hear ya on staying CCC, but my issue is drive-ability, this is my 4th elec Qjet, all of them have suffered the same failure either the TPS goes out or the MC solenoid dies, right now its running so rich that its fouling plugs, pulled them and they are BLACK. something keeps telling it to run full rich. Ive tried different comp, different chips, checked every port for vac leaks, im just at the end of the road with this carb. Its rougly 500 to get one rebuilt, about the same as a new carb. I have a buddy that has 2 off his 87 that he no longer needs and im willing to try both of them to see if i can get this car tuned properly and drive it again. I dont want a race car, just want to cruise my baby and not worry about it. ill take advice on tuning and getting it running right again. I have a chrome lid for the air cleaner so ill swap out the extreme lid, and change carbs to another CCC and see how it goes. I was just wondering what ppl that did go non CCC used in their setup..

thanks,

Chuck


1988 Monte Carlo SS
Black w/T-tops
Mods: Jet stage 2 chip, 2.5" cat back with flow super 44's, chrome valve covers, custom interior from a 2003 Monte SS, 3.73 posi rear (waiting to install), re-built tranny, Elec fan setup, Msd Ignition, LED Headlights
http://chucks88ss.tripod.com/Montepics/index.album?i=1
#1052578 - 07/26/17 12:08 AM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,848
Buick Runner Offline
10+ Year
Buick Runner  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,848
Dharma station 1 the Hydra
Carb cleaner will destroy a TPS. The computer will go rich to offset a lean problem which can be caused by lots of different things. I had my carb go full rich because of vacuum leaks from the intake manifold, carb mounting gasket, and the brake booster. Exhaust leaks will also fool a O2 sensor that the exhaust is lean.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1052582 - 07/26/17 01:56 AM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,716
BadSS Online content
20+ Year
BadSS  Online Content
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,716
Pearl, MS, 39208
502, what codes are being generated?


Original owner of 1985 SS black hardtop w/gray interior. Frame-on restoration - 406 sleeper w/ heavily ported FIRST TPI. However the 1.875" headers, 3.5" duals, TH400, Ford 9", notched frame, and 10-point cage w/swing-out bars might tip you off it's not a lil' ole 305 TPI. Other mods: 2" drop, 18" wheels, f/r disk brakes, and custom stereo system.
#1052585 - 07/26/17 03:05 AM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,607
MattsMonte Offline
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MattsMonte  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,607
Johnston, Iowa
Here is what we used:

Rebuilt E4ME Quadrajet Carb
Summit Racing SUM-850001-1 Vacuum advance Distributor


[Linked Image]

1988 MCSS T-Tops. Frame off restoration, 330HP 350 crate engine, 700R4 transmission.
#1052590 - 07/26/17 08:29 PM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,190
DLV555 Offline
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DLV555  Offline
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Posts: 2,190
Findlay, OH USA
I have to agree with the notion of staying with the CCC components. I had my original Q-Jet on my '87 SS until this year. I only finally changed it out because I went too radical on my most recent upgrade. 400 SBC with a 235/243 cam. The ECM doesn't like that low idle vacuum, But for the last 8 years I ran it on the same 400 SBC with a Lunati 60101 Voodoo cam and it ran perfectly fine. I could have fine tuned it a little but it ran great. Never threw a code.
If you must remove it all, I highly recommend a mid-late 70s Q-Jet or an 80s truck Q-Jet. They are easy to build, and super easy to adjust. Cores can be found on eBay for $50 or less. For the distributor I just went with the Speedway Motors HEI.


'87 Monte Carlo SS, 400 SBC, 800 Q-Jet, Edelbrock RPM Q-Jet intake, Howards BM Rattler cam, Flowtech headers, 200-4R w/shift kit, 4.10 posi, 2.5" exhaust, DeltaFlow 40s
'73 Mercury Montego, 460 BBF, AirGap Intake, 800 Q-Jet, Voodoo cam, C6, 9" 3.25 posi, 3" exh, Flowmaster 40s
[Linked Image]
#1052600 - 07/27/17 02:34 PM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 97
800rmk Offline
Member
800rmk  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 97
Mayerthorpe, AB
502- to tune my CCC I set my idle circuit with a dwell meter to 50% Duty cycle after I set the initial timing to 10 degrees and idle to around 800 rpm. I had the carb gone through at a local speed shop I have dealt with for years when I rebuilt the current 355. I may be lucky as the car only has 65,000 original miles on it and the wiring, etc has never been butchered and is still in tact and everything works as it should. I'm no expert on the CCC by any means but it was pretty easy to get running right.


1985 Monte Carlo SS Vortec headed 355, Howards 215/225 cam, 200r4 with trans go kit,Patriot headers and magnaflow mufflers, 7.5" 3:73 diff
soon to install: 8.5 inch diff from 84 Olds 442
#1052624 - 07/29/17 02:05 AM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 11,711
86ttop Offline
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86ttop  Offline
20+ Year
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 11,711
Brooksville, Fl
Chevelle 502, try this carb man; www.customrebuiltcarbs.com I have used him for two E4ME carbs and they have been basically bolt on! Click on my link and give him a call!!


Leo Paugh
It's not an attitude, it's just the way I am.
POW*MIA
You are not forgotten
If things improve with age, I must be approaching magnificent. thumbs
#1058304 - 07/19/18 11:21 PM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,646
chevelle502 Offline
15+ Year
chevelle502  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,646
Dundalk. MD
Hey! Been a while for this thread. Im gonna get some flack on this but now i think i wanna go with a self tuning EFI system and a standard vac adv. dist. I figure that at some point ill upgrade the motor itself but the 305 is happy and doesn't smoke or leak anything. So, how does that plan sound? timing question is, can i put a different dist in with the old carb just to get the base timing set? In this situation, what dist is a good option? again im not building for power. Thats later if i can ever save for a 383.

Thanks,

Chuck


1988 Monte Carlo SS
Black w/T-tops
Mods: Jet stage 2 chip, 2.5" cat back with flow super 44's, chrome valve covers, custom interior from a 2003 Monte SS, 3.73 posi rear (waiting to install), re-built tranny, Elec fan setup, Msd Ignition, LED Headlights
http://chucks88ss.tripod.com/Montepics/index.album?i=1
#1058320 - 07/21/18 04:37 PM Re: couple Q's about going non CCC [Re: chevelle502]  
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,716
BadSS Online content
20+ Year
BadSS  Online Content
20+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,716
Pearl, MS, 39208
Originally Posted by chevelle502
Hey! Been a while for this thread. Im gonna get some flack on this but now i think i wanna go with a self tuning EFI system and a standard vac adv. dist. I figure that at some point ill upgrade the motor itself but the 305 is happy and doesn't smoke or leak anything. So, how does that plan sound? timing question is, can i put a different dist in with the old carb just to get the base timing set? In this situation, what dist is a good option? again im not building for power. Thats later if i can ever save for a 383.

Thanks,

Chuck


When you unplug the computer controlled distributor, it will put the system/carb in limp home mode. That's not a problem if all you want to do is set the base timing on the new distributor right before the EFI swap, However, I'd advice against running the car in limp home mode for any length of time.

The CCC system when right can come close to a throttle body fuel injection system in about every area other than maybe cold start and when the carb's choke is set right shouldn't be a problem either. I personally would not change a carb for a throttle body EFI system, but I'm comfortable tuning on the CCC and Holley carbs. Most that haven't run one that's tuned right may not believe it, but a good annular discharge double pumper has as good or maybe even better throttle response compared to the EFI throttle body systems.

If you weren't thinking about doing a 383 later, I'd recommend doing a TPI swap. The longer runners really perk up a stock or mostly stock 305. Depending on the level of performance you have planned for the 383 or larger engine would depend on what EFI system I'd recommend, but regardless I'd suggest doing a multi-point fuel injection (8 injectors).

A cam swap and 1.625" headers on the 305 along with some vortec heads and a Holley StealthRam running a TPI ECM and harness would be a great budget set up to get the most out of the 305 for now. Get the tuning software to burn your own chips, learn on the 305 set up, then all you'd have to do is swap everything over to a 383 shortblock later. Obviously that's dependent on whether or not a 400HP or so 383 would do it for you.


Original owner of 1985 SS black hardtop w/gray interior. Frame-on restoration - 406 sleeper w/ heavily ported FIRST TPI. However the 1.875" headers, 3.5" duals, TH400, Ford 9", notched frame, and 10-point cage w/swing-out bars might tip you off it's not a lil' ole 305 TPI. Other mods: 2" drop, 18" wheels, f/r disk brakes, and custom stereo system.

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