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#1045456 - 11/16/16 02:07 PM Lowering springs or drop spindles???  
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iWON Offline
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Ventura, CA.
I installed 1" lowering springs front and rear. I recently ordered upper/lower a arms from Spohn Performance and was wondering when I do this work should I just go ahead and buy 2" drop spindles to install at the same time? I plan on getting probably 20" rims I assume and want a good looking stance. I wanted to ask to ensure I am doing the right thing the first time. Thanks in advance... I am constantly reading on the site as well for additional knowledge and input.

#1045517 - 11/18/16 07:04 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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LXXXIV SS Offline
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...

#1045531 - 11/19/16 12:39 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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Jameson Offline
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Don't go with spindles, they amplify the already poor camber curve and the inside edge of your tires will rub the fender well and will get horrible bump streer.


1988 Monte Carlo SS Eaton 112 5.3/T56 swap, Way to many mods to list.
2015 GMC Sierra Denali



#1045541 - 11/19/16 06:37 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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Performance Offline
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East Tennessee
I run drop spindles with a 1" drop spring in the front on my car. Car does great under normal driving conditions. I have pushed the car on some of our mountain roads and it does fairly well. But, you will get bump steer if you push to hard. Thats the bad part of drop spindles. Another issue is the bump stops itself. The factory bump stops will not keep your tires out of the fenders. So you have to change those and in turn you will have a more likely case of bump steer. I guess it just depends on what you plan on doing with the car.


1986 Monte Carlo SS - 35,000 Miles, Original Paint, Original Interior, Original Drivetrain, Custom ZZ4/L69 Chip, Lunati Street Master Cam, Dual Intrepid Fans, Hedman Elite Headers, Custom Exhaust With 3 Flowmasters, Shift Kit, 3" Drop Suspension, 18" Center Line Wheels, Nitto Tires.
#1045609 - 11/21/16 05:35 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: Jameson]  
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1owner83SS Offline
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Kenosha Wi.
Originally Posted By: Jameson
Don't go with spindles, they amplify the already poor camber curve and the inside edge of your tires will rub the fender well and will get horrible bump streer.


I would think moving the control arms would make it worse, my thinking is opposite of what your saying. My thoughts are moving the spud and leaving the arms at stock locations won't change the camber curve like moving the arms does.


[Linked Image]
1983 Monte Carlo SS our first new car.
#1045678 - 11/23/16 05:28 AM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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iWON Offline
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Ventura, CA.
Sounds like stick with stock spindles, 1 inch lowering springs until I get the rims I want and then get them cut for right stance?

#1045685 - 11/23/16 01:07 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: 1owner83SS]  
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Jameson Offline
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Elizabeth City, NC
Originally Posted By: 1owner83SS
Originally Posted By: Jameson
Don't go with spindles, they amplify the already poor camber curve and the inside edge of your tires will rub the fender well and will get horrible bump streer.


I would think moving the control arms would make it worse, my thinking is opposite of what your saying. My thoughts are moving the spud and leaving the arms at stock locations won't change the camber curve like moving the arms does.


They both make it worse but drop spindles are far worse then a shorter spring moving the control arms.

That's why many companies offer taller ball joints, taller spindles and control arms that change the geometry of the control arms.


1988 Monte Carlo SS Eaton 112 5.3/T56 swap, Way to many mods to list.
2015 GMC Sierra Denali



#1045689 - 11/23/16 02:59 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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1owner83SS Offline
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Kenosha Wi.
please explain how a drop spindle moves the control arms, I always thought when you use them the arms and springs stay exactly where they were and only the stub that the rotor goes on to is moved up 2 inches.

Last edited by 1owner83SS; 11/23/16 03:00 PM.

[Linked Image]
1983 Monte Carlo SS our first new car.
#1045692 - 11/23/16 03:33 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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LXXXIV SS Offline
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Lower Peninsula, Michigan
Originally Posted By: iWON
Sounds like stick with stock spindles, 1 inch lowering springs until I get the rims I want and then get them cut for right stance?


Not only the rims, but the tire sizes will play a role in getting the stance you want. There's really no way to know how your choice of all the components is going to give you the look and stance your aiming for. Many times, it's a matter of trying different springs and tires sizes till you nail it. Stock ride height plays a BIG role. Don't let anyone tell you that our montes all came with the same ride height.

In my case, I had to buy and install three different sets of springs (lots of money) before I found the combination that worked and gave me my 4" drop, and completely filled the wheel wells at the same time.




#1045699 - 11/23/16 06:26 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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SickSpeedMonte Offline
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MD
Drop spindles don't make the camber curve any worse than stock. They don't change it at all.

Drop springs don't really change it either, but rather they change where you operate in it to a better spot. From a handling perspective, drop springs are better than drop spindles because they give a mild improvement in the geometry in the range near ride height and the increased stiffness helps reduce body roll. Just make sure to match front and rear springs because increasing only the front pushes the car more towards understeer.

#1045707 - 11/24/16 12:25 AM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: SickSpeedMonte]  
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LXXXIV SS Offline
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Lower Peninsula, Michigan
Originally Posted By: SickSpeedMonte
Drop spindles don't make the camber curve any worse than stock. They don't change it at all.

Drop springs don't really change it either, but rather they change where you operate in it to a better spot. From a handling perspective, drop springs are better than drop spindles because they give a mild improvement in the geometry in the range near ride height and the increased stiffness helps reduce body roll. Just make sure to match front and rear springs because increasing only the front pushes the car more towards understeer.


Bernie,

Thanks for the explanation and differences between dropped spindles and springs. The guy who helped me with my choices of springs over spindles explained it in a similar manner, and I'd like to give a shout out to Chris West of this forum who inspired and helped me all the way through my own lowering project.

Chuck

#1045713 - 11/24/16 06:35 AM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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ss4ever Offline
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Shelbina, Missouri
I use trimmed Moog 5660 springs(cut 1 full coil off the bottom of them) and I run Hotchkiss 1" drop springs in the rear. I have run the drop spindles in the past and loved that they were easy to install but with a wide front tire I kept having issues with the outer edge of the tire rubbing the lip of the inner fender.



1983 Monte Carlo SS Turnkey ZZ4/700R4, Dakota Digital Instrument Cluster, 77k mile car. Many more mods to come soon.
#1045717 - 11/24/16 01:54 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: ss4ever]  
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1owner83SS Offline
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Kenosha Wi.
Originally Posted By: ss4ever
I use trimmed Moog 5660 springs(cut 1 full coil off the bottom of them) and I run Hotchkiss 1" drop springs in the rear. I have run the drop spindles in the past and loved that they were easy to install but with a wide front tire I kept having issues with the outer edge of the tire rubbing the lip of the inner fender.



do the drop spindles move the wheel out to cause the rub or is 2 inches to much drop? Asking questions because I don't want to make a mistake the first time around.


[Linked Image]
1983 Monte Carlo SS our first new car.
#1045718 - 11/24/16 02:44 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: 1owner83SS]  
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Eric'sMonteSS Offline
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Abington,ma
Originally Posted By: 1owner83SS
Originally Posted By: ss4ever
I use trimmed Moog 5660 springs(cut 1 full coil off the bottom of them) and I run Hotchkiss 1" drop springs in the rear. I have run the drop spindles in the past and loved that they were easy to install but with a wide front tire I kept having issues with the outer edge of the tire rubbing the lip of the inner fender.



do the drop spindles move the wheel out to cause the rub or is 2 inches to much drop? Asking questions because I don't want to make a mistake the first time around.


The spindles don't move the wheel out..
no idea on his set up, it could be the wrong back spacing on the wheels, or just reaching the limit of how wide you can stuff under the fender, lowered and turning..
He'll have to reply to why he had this issue..

Last edited by Eric'sMonteSS; 11/24/16 02:45 PM.
#1045720 - 11/24/16 03:23 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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ss4ever Offline
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On this car the front suspension is perfect with the wheels that are on it. I showed the pics to show the stance. With my previous Monte I was running a 17x8 TT2 wheel up front, first with a 275/40 tire then with 245/45 on the same rim. The tires were a little wide combined with the drop that I had from the drop spindles which contributed to the rub. Another factor in the rub was that with the drop spindles the factory suspension bump stops don't come anywhere close to hitting before the tire was already up into my fender. My solution on that car was to do the suspension just as I have it in the 83SS I have now, trimmed Moog 5660 Springs combined with Bilstien shocks all around.


1983 Monte Carlo SS Turnkey ZZ4/700R4, Dakota Digital Instrument Cluster, 77k mile car. Many more mods to come soon.
#1045751 - 11/25/16 02:18 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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1owner83SS Offline
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Kenosha Wi.
Well everyone seems to have a different opinion on which is best, springs or spindles, since I am only looking for a lowered stance and the car only sees a few weekend rides a summer and no track time I am going to use spindles.


[Linked Image]
1983 Monte Carlo SS our first new car.
#1045754 - 11/25/16 04:37 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: 1owner83SS]  
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LXXXIV SS Offline
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Lower Peninsula, Michigan
Originally Posted By: 1owner83SS
Well everyone seems to have a different opinion on which is best, springs or spindles, since I am only looking for a lowered stance and the car only sees a few weekend rides a summer and no track time I am going to use spindles.


Hi, Horton

I don't think it's really so much a matter of which way is 'best'. It's more a case of what gets you to your desired goal with the least amount of headaches and problems.

Chuck

#1045772 - 11/26/16 07:48 AM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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Kentwood, Mi
I just installed the 2in drop spindles on my Monte. I love them! The look and stance is right.... I will be adding new rims snd tires...but not anytime soon. The only issue I have is with the tire rubbing inside the fender on bumpy roads. I am changing the bumpstops to see if it fixes the problem. I will hopefully have them install by next week. I can let you know how it goes.There is a topic I started to ask for help with my issue with my problem. Check it out. Either way, I think you will! Be happy with the spindles.

#1045775 - 11/26/16 08:29 AM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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AkronAero Offline
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You're good.
I switched to the 2"Belltech drop spindles a few years back with Moog 5660 springs in front and 1.5" drop springs in back. great stance with no rub. OK for now but if I do change in the future it will be to correct the front geometry for improved handling.
Isn't it all fun? How many things have I done one way and then changed around later????
Enjoy the leftovers!
Gordon

#1045875 - 11/29/16 12:54 PM Re: Lowering springs or drop spindles??? [Re: iWON]  
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SickSpeedMonte Offline
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Drop spindles:
Move the spindle up on the upright. Preserves the stock control arm geometry which keeps the same camber and bump-steer behavior. Moves the wheel up with respect to the upright, which can often create interference between the steering arm (where the tie rod connects) and the inside of the rim. On 17" rims, you start having interference right around 4.5" backspacing. You can run a little more BS with larger diameter rims, and less BS with smaller rims. Because the stock camber behavior is preserved, the top of the tire can hit the fender lip (it doesn't camber in to miss it.) Also, your bump-stop is on the lower control arm, and the tire is now 2" higher into the wheel well when the bump stop hits, which also allows rubbing. On a stock spring and stock tire, drop spindles are fine. Start running wider tires or lowered springs in addition to drop spindles, and you get rubbing. You'll need the toe adjusted in an alignment, and most shops will charge you the full alignment cost anyway.

Drop springs:
Move the suspension into a slightly better range of the camber curve, which will pull the top of the tire inboard to avoid rubbing. This allows you to run a wider front tire. The camber curve is still nothing to write home about, but this operating range is a little better than the stock one and this gives slight handling improvements. The static camber (and toe) will need to be adjusted, requiring a full alignment. Drop springs are typically stiffer than stock, reducing body roll. As I said before, you'll want to match the rear with stiffer springs so that the car doesn't understeer worse than it already does. Ideally, you'll also want stiffer dampers to control body motions, as the stiffer springs can "overpower" soft dampers that are designed for stock spring rates. A 10-15% increase in spring stiffness wont really cause an issue, but if you go much more than that, you'll want stiffer dampers. The bump stops will function as designed and stop the suspension compression before the tire interferes with the wheel well or fender.

If I wanted a 2" drop or less, I'd do springs. More than that and it starts to make sense to run drop spindles with stiff drop springs and taller bump stops.


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