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#1060857 - 02/21/19 03:50 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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As tech advances, the LS family will be seen as dino engines for grandpas, as it happens to everything. The new LT1s are already outmoding them. But it kind of proves one of my concerns with electric drives. Nothing becomes outdated faster than electronics, which electric drivetrains would be very dependent on, more so then even LS engines. What if they change the design of the charging ports every few years so older electric cars become useless? Or GM keeps a lot of information on hos to work on them private for only its dealers?

Last edited by Buick Runner; 02/21/19 03:51 PM.

SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060861 - 02/21/19 08:09 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: Buick Runner]  
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Originally Posted by Buick Runner
As tech advances, the LS family will be seen as dino engines for grandpas, as it happens to everything. The new LT1s are already outmoding them. But it kind of proves one of my concerns with electric drives. Nothing becomes outdated faster than electronics, which electric drivetrains would be very dependent on, more so then even LS engines. What if they change the design of the charging ports every few years so older electric cars become useless? Or GM keeps a lot of information on hos to work on them private for only its dealers?


I'm not too worried about electric car problems. I wont buy one until the government forces me to.


86 SS 6.2l LS3, Ilmor intake, Summit Stage 4 Cam, Stainless long tube headers, Stainless 3in exhaust, Tremec T-56 Magnum 6 speed, Eaton Truetrac 8.8 LSD, UMI Cornermax Front Suspension, 3-link Rear suspension w/ UMI Control Arms, UMI Front & Rear Braces, Brembo Brakes
#1060862 - 02/21/19 10:03 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Folks,

Some thoughts about the last few posts:

1. Tesla S does 0-60 in 2.276s. 1.1-1.2g lateral acceleration. Those numbers speak for themselves, despite a whopping 4,891lb curb weight. Again, for me, I'd reduce the battery pack weight a bunch since I wouldn't plan on long-distance highway driving. The extra weight of the batteries is beneath the floorboards, and the total e-motor/tranny weight is a good deal less than the equivalent in an ICE engine/tranny equivalent. Since the e-motor weight and size is a lot less than the ICE equivalent, the COM (Center Of Mass) can be made much lower in the chassis.
2. In combination with the battery-pack COM, the COM of the vehicle could be reduced quite a bit compared to an ICE equivalent. Case in point: Tesla model S COM is 18" above the ground, compared to probably around 23" for a typical MCSS. A lower COM means more consistent/controllable handling while the car is undergoing various modes of acceleration: say, heavy braking while cornering, which would through a nose-heavy like an MCSS into a tailspin if the rear suspension has enough roll stiffness for it to handle without excessive understeer under normal conditions.
3. A battery-pack/e-motor combination allows a lot more flexibility in chassis placement than an ICE motor/tranny combination does. This means the vehicle's COM location in x,y can be adjusted for best handling and traction balance. If we now add the z aspect mentioned previously, that generally means a translation of the COM toward the rear and downward too, both of which can be quite beneficial to handling.
4. Not to get too technical, but there would probably be a big reduction in Izz moment of inertia, so crisper steering response.
5. Charging: the car just needs a regulated DC voltage source. The technology here is old and very mature. In fact, connecting a car to a charger could be accomplished with a pair of jumper cables, exactly the way a dead battery is jump-started. Beyond this, it's just a matter of connector configuration. I'd plan on charging at home, so I'd need to invest in an inverter/regulator station. Of course this factors into total conversion cost. On the flip side, the cost to charge electrically is way less than the cost of gas for the same type of driving.

HTH,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 02/21/19 10:06 PM.
#1060867 - 02/22/19 07:12 AM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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I know of one story of a guy who rebuilt a wecked Tesla in San Diego, but he can't get in running because he is locked out of the software needed to reactivate it, which Tesla refuses to help him with. Tesla also refuses to sell certain replacement parts to the general public, only to its dealership techs. Moreover, everything in Teslas, including the charging are controlled by software that must be updated regularly through Wifi. Another case of a rebuilt Tesla owner getting screwed over in New Zealand, where the owner is denied software updates needed to recharge his batteries in an hour. Without those updates, he can only recharge at a slow rate that takes several hours. These are just a couple of examples of shenanigans I fear will happen with EV swaps.

I could see GM only selling and shipping crate EV kits to its dealership techs who must installl it for you, for a rather large fee. After so many years, GM may drop software update support for your setup, much like how Microsoft, Apple, and the other computer scab companies force people to keep buying new products through planned obsolescence. I fear that one issue with EV in general is the opportunity for increased abuse of planed obsolescence they offer to car manufacturers who have historically been scabby themselves. It is quite a business ethics issue that needs to be resolved.

Lets say EVs become more common place in the future, would the government ban the sale of gas and use of ICE? Or would the supply of such fuels simply become rare and expensive? Many of the car manfacturers are even planing of moving away from B2C sales of private cars, and instead B2B sales of cars to public ride share firms or run ride share firms themselves. Some experts even think there will be no more privately owned cars within 20 years. A lot of issues that need to be setteled.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060868 - 02/22/19 08:08 AM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Buick,

Lots of interesting points, and I don't pretend to be an expert so I can address all of them. But I don't think GM would get involved with any aspect of old drivetrain removal and/or new e-motor/battery installation. It just doesn't make sense from a business perspective, and the liability is likely to be too risky.

So, to make this feasible like their current E-ROD program, the system(s) would need to be simple enough from an installation and maintenance standpoint to make it attractive to the typical hotrodder. If not, it would only hurt their bottom line. So, by definition, I think the software aspect would have to be pretty basic, robust, and probably with little to no access for the owner. That said, it's not clear how much software control really needs to exist. I don' t see the system as being that complex.

Best,
MAP

#1060869 - 02/22/19 08:25 AM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Map, I don't really know as I am no computer expert either, perhaps Bitflipper could shine some light on this subject? My own persomal feeling is that Teslas are probably overly complex and a crate EV kit would probably be more streamlined than a normal production EV driveline. Even the Erod is a more simple and streamline version of the normal production LS3. Also with the Erod, its computer can't be reflashed without voiding its legality, crate EV kits would likely be similar. I would think the charging software is likely as a safety feature to prevent overcharging which could lead to fires or killing the batteries. It probably also monitors and displays how much of a charge is left.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060879 - 02/23/19 10:18 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Buick,

I think you're exactly right. Let's hope GM decides to release that e-motor/battery/(tranny?) combination sooner rather than later.

I'll put it this way: if I could get a conventional gas-based drivetrain to give me the location of COM that I'd like, that alone would suffice for me. The COM of MCSSs is too high, and too far forward, for best handling and traction.

Best,
MAP

#1060900 - 02/25/19 04:56 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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You know, a "Crate" electric drivetrain that was the size and rough shape of a V8 and TH350 has the potential to be pretty slick. Give it a tailshaft housing that fits an existing driveshaft slipyoke, maybe even a cable drive for the speedo. Pack the motor in the trans tunnel with a gearbox if needed, then the controller, and possibly some batteries together with a throttle cable hookup where the carb should be, and use the traditional motor and transmission mount locations. Then include a bunch of battery bricks with it to be mounted where space allows on the particular vehicle, then wired up to the main unit for more capacity...
An installer could pull the standard unit out, drop the main unit in place without fabricating mounts or piecing systems together, wire up as many additional batteries as needed, and hit the road running.
Future options could have a power unit that had electric AC/heat pump and Power Steering pumps in a unit that could be mounted underhood and plumbed into existing systems. If GM sold a crate like that, I think they's have some business.


Shawn

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1060901 - 02/25/19 07:20 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Hunter,

That does sound clever. But I'm also thinking that because an electric motor is a lot more compact than an ICE for the same output, that motor could be slid toward the rear into the tranny/driveshaft tunnel. Also, due to the very broad torque curve of electric motors, which, unlike ICEs, actually have their peak torque at 0 rpm, they don't need multi-speed transmissions as do ICEs. That's why a two-speed transmission like a GV overdrive unit could suffice. Many e-enthusiasts don't use any tranny at all, come to think of it. And no torque converter. The main justification for seems to be that we don't want the electric motor(s) to spin excessive rpms where the back-EMF unduly reduces torque output per unit supply voltage.

Personally, I'd be happy to live with a compromise where I'd make a reasonable enlargement to the tranny/ driveshaft tunnel in order to handle an enlarged diameter of electric motor(s) if I thought the extra torque would warrant it.

So there you have it: develop a motor/tranny combination that would fit the bill you're proposing, Hunter, but limit diameter so shifting the drivetrain rearward into (a potentially modified) driveshaft tunnel would be feasible. With electric motors, this is easy: if you can't get torque by increasing diameter, then get it by increasing length. Or, connect multiple motors in series, mechanically. Once again, the flexibility of electric over ICE entices.

Thanks,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 02/25/19 09:36 PM.
#1060904 - 02/25/19 10:07 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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A decent DC motor is about 10-12" outside diameter, right? That's about the size of the main body of most transmissions, then either a 2 speed GV unit or just a slip-yoke would fit easily and not alter driveshaft placement. Then the area formerly occupied by the bellhousing and engine would be available for batteries and electronics. Not ideal for weight placement, but for a "Crate Engine" option it would be much easier to drop in place and retrofit...
For max performance benefit, ditch the existing driveshaft and extend the second motor to the driveshaft tunnel. At that point, modifications would be expected but the folks going after that would be much more adapted to cutting body panels than someone who wants a Crate option.


Shawn

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#1060906 - 02/25/19 11:12 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Any kind of body surgery will likely be a turnoff for most people sitting on the fence of a E conversion. A lot of wenchers do not know how to weld or want to invest time and especially money into learning how to weld and buying the expensive equipment besides the involved safety hazzards. A pure bolt in system will be much more marketable than a system that will require extensive body modifications. A crate crate kit is a less is more situation, less work, more appealing. Even a pure bolt in engine swap is still plenty of hard work.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060907 - 02/25/19 11:57 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Folks,

All very valid points. KIS(S) wins again. Maybe they can offer two motor diameters: one with less output, but that would fit inside an unaltered body, and a second one that would only differ in diameter for higher output and that would require "mild" floor modification. No other differences between the two. Or, maybe better yet, two motors in mechanical series, again to fit a stock body. A short driveshaft in the back would need double CV joints, but no problem. Even if we allocate two feet length each for a driveshaft, tranny, and each of two e-motors, we'd be at 96" length total, which would still place the front edge of the drivetrain a few inches back of the engine crossmember centerline. Nice indeed!

Best,
MAP


Last edited by MAP; 02/26/19 12:40 AM.
#1060929 - 02/27/19 04:50 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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I was driving my '93 K3500 the other day with it's 6.5 turbo diesel (225 hp, 400 ft-lb) pulling a ~7000 lb trailer up some and down decent terrain. I was thinking it would be really cool to replace the forward driveshaft, which goes from the T-case to a carrier bearing for the rear driveshaft, with an electric motor. The motor could give you a few extra hp when you need it and act as a regenerative engine brake going downhill. Apparently the 4L80e in my truck isn't very good for transmitting reverse torque through the overrun clutches.

#1060942 - 02/28/19 08:15 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Interesting, SSM!

I should have heeded my own advice better, and re-read the entire thread carefully. One thing I spotted is that Tesla's battery pack came down from 1,500lb in 2015 to 750lb today. I haven't checked typical highway range with these battery packs, but I assume it's in Tesla's typical range of somewhere around 300mi. As I wrote on several occasions, I, and I suspect many hotrodders, would be happy with a fraction of that range because we don't typically drive our cars just for utilitarian point A to point B transportation.

If you scroll back to the 8/31/15 post about feedback from Lonestar EV conversions, you can see a more detailed and certain estimate of an EV drivetrain configuration for an MCSS than what I've offered, admittedly only by memory, in more recent posts.

Thanks,
MAP


Last edited by MAP; 02/28/19 08:16 PM.
#1060943 - 02/28/19 08:29 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Wonder what could be done with an electro magnetic torque converter.


Justin
1986 Black SS
Upgrades: 350 L05 - Hooker Longtubes - FlowMaster True Dual 2.5" - Electric Cutouts - Electric Fans - Transcooler - Proforged Steering Kit - Astro Shaft - AR62 OUTLAW II Wheels - Energy Suspension Bushings - Bitflipper Chip - 87 ECM - Moog Springs and Ball Joints - Bilstein Shocks - Bucket Seats
#1060944 - 02/28/19 08:43 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Witness,

I see there's recent patent activity here: I need to learn more about it. Boiled down to essentials, all torque converters trade-off between torque multiplication and angular speed multiplication to provide a better mechanical impedance match between prime-mover side and load side. Or, in simple terms, it mimics a gearset. Of course, with fluid or E-M coupling, the ratio is variable and possibly adjustable, which holds various benefits. But all, at best, conserve mechanical energy. So as usual, no free lunch: that's why all torque converters get hot.

In the meantime, here's a great video from Motorweek talking about an EV Miata that does 0-60 in 1.5s and the quarter-mile in 8.9 s. Lonestar EV conversions "John Metric" is the business owner.

http://www.motorweek.org/features/over_the_edge/ev_drag_racing

Disclaimer: I have no business incentive whatsoever to mention this vendor, but their name does seem to pop-up more often than others with respect to high-performance EV conversions. For this reason alone, I'm citing them frequently here. If anyone has other sources we should know about, please chime in!

Best,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 02/28/19 08:45 PM.
#1060948 - 03/01/19 02:00 AM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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One issue with playing with electric powertrains is the high voltage. EV powertrains can use as much as 650 volts, which is fatal. I looked at tools designed for working on hybrids and EVs and they are expensive. High voltage gloves start at $80, and must be regularly checked for wear as even a pinhole can kill you. Plus the special insulated wrenches, ratchets, extensions, and other safety tools can cost up to 100s of dollars each. There is even a insulated rescue hook for helpers to pull a shocked tech to safety. This why I am afraid that EV conversions may be out of the realm of the DIY due to the increased safety concerns with working on such systems that require professional safety training. Selling such systems as a DIY crate kit toward amaturs may just be too much liability. If GM evers sells such a kit it probably would be a combo product, install, and service plan package due to the greater safety requirements.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060950 - 03/01/19 08:01 AM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Buick,

The voltage associated with spark plugs is actually at least an order of magnitude greater than that, and yet that's been made safe. The trick is proper insulation, proper grounding, and proper safety procedures when handling. That's not to dismiss the problem since what you say is correct, but I'm sure the problem is tractable.

Best,
MAP

#1060952 - 03/02/19 01:07 AM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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The energy to spark plugs has low current, (low amps). This makes it similar to static electricity, enough to give either a painful shock or burn, but generally not enough current to electroute you. In fact, the energy does not even travel inside the ignition wire, but through the EM field surrounding the wire. The ignition coil is basically a mini Tesla coil.

It takes about 100 to 200 amps to kill a person. While an ICE battery has 500 or more amps, the voltage is so low it is easily insulated. Furthermore, only the starter pulls such high amps, the rest of an ICE's electrical system doesn't amps as high as the starter. High voltage like 650 is more difficult to insulate and has a greater chance of "leaking" through any path to ground. This makes working on a hybird or EV similar to working on high tension lines, thus requiring far greater safety precautions than with ICE. Even just working outside over dirt would be a bad idea because moist soil is a perfect path to ground with high voltage and why outdoor outlets are required to be GCFI.


Last edited by Buick Runner; 03/02/19 01:16 AM.

SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060953 - 03/02/19 04:34 AM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Buick,

I think you mean that it takes about 100mA-200mA to kill a person. Survival is more likely when the current is lower and higher than this range. The worst conductive path would be through the heart. Here's a simple primer on the topic:

https://www.asc.ohio-state.edu/physics/p616/safety/fatal_current.html

Coming back to spark plugs, the danger depends not only on the peak instantaneous current, which is still determined by the spark voltage (typically 20kV,) and the resistance posed by the body to ground, but also on the length of time that that current is present. Since most systems are CD discharge, that current should decay with an exponential envelope over time. Because of this dynamic nature, maybe total energy delivered is a better indicator of lethality.

Anyway, I don't think it's especially helpful to dwell on this aspect of EV conversions because the problem must be fundamentally tractable. If it weren't, then: 1. Companies like Tesla would be facing massive litigation due to electrocution injuries, and: 2. GM wouldn't be indicating that they're thinking of providing an e-motor kit. There's more circumstantial evidence than just this, but I think this is enough to establish that we're not looking at an insurmountable problem.

Thanks,
MAP

#1060954 - 03/02/19 06:03 AM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Darn spell checker "corrected" milliamps on me.

Tesla generally frowns on any non approved personal tinkering on their cars, but that is the general norm for the auto industry, especially with high end brands. Through Tesla may be somewhat justified with the safety issues with dealing with high voltages. However, a set of high voltage gloves would be wise investment when working on such systems yourself. [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9WWVMDih9s[/video]


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060959 - 03/02/19 09:22 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Hi Buick,

That's great advice, of course, notwithstanding that I'm posturing for not making too big a deal out of this. But at the same time, I'm certainly not saying we should ignore this. Always better safe than sorry.

But I'd appeal that we get back to center about EV conversions as a path to performance, and not to electrocution.

Thanks,
MAP

#1060961 - 03/02/19 11:18 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Researching safety with hybrids and EVs, they do have a few safety features that should be included in any possible EV crate kit. Current hybrids and EVs usually have a a master disconnect right at thd battery and many have a second master disconnect inside the passenger compartment, generally in the center console. This allows a any occupants inside the car or responders to kill high voltage in case of an accident.

Another issue is weight. A Tesla battery pack weighs a 1,000 pounds, and on some models is bolted to the bottom of the floor pan (IMO not a great place with the effects of winter salt). While a running SBC weighs nearly half that at 535 lbs combined with 125 lbs for s TH 2004R plus 41 pounds for thd TC. While a Tesla powertrain weighs 350 pounds. So roughly 1,350 pounds vs 701 pounds for a stock powetrain. EV swap will likely require higher weight capacity suspension springs and even frame and body reinforcement, which G bodies require anyway for any power upgrades.

Last edited by Buick Runner; 03/02/19 11:21 PM.

SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#1060976 - 03/04/19 10:08 PM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
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Yuma, AZ
Hi Buick,

I've said repeatedly that I wouldn't use 1,000lb of batteries because I, and I suspect many others, don't expect a 300-mile driving range for a hotrod. You're also forgetting about 80lb for a half-filled gas tank, about 100lb for an exhaust system, about 40lb for a stock battery, and about 50lb for a filled cooling system.

Buick, please, this tone is getting wearisome.

On edit: I think I somewhat misjudged your intention. I understand you're trying to provide useful information. But with that in mind, let's please agree to move on from the topic of whether EV conversions can be made safe. I'm confident that they can, in just the same way that driving a bomb commonly called a car, filled with a high explosive known as gasoline, that's ignited by a high-tension voltage that could kill or maim, can be made safe too.

Now, back to weight: I contend that an EV conversion that has enough range for around-town fun driving, could be made lighter than a stock MCSS, and with a weight distribution that would be far more favorable to good handling and good traction than factory. Scroll up to my post from 8-31-15 where I calculate that a 400lb battery pack would reduce the stock MCSS weight by about 100lb. And actually, even this estimate is low, because the 2,900lb deadweight inherent in the car aside from 700lb for an SBC and transmission, includes the weights I cited at the top of this post. If you deduct the additional 270lb of that collection of parts needed for the ICE configuration, we come out about 370lb net lighter with a 400lb battery pack, compared to stock.

BTW another nice example of the flexibility of electric is that it's fairly easy to add or subtract battery pack capacity depending on one's driving preferences/needs.

About the chassis needing reinforcement for a high-output drivetrain: if you look at my thousands of posts over the years in the rolling chassis section, you'll see that I firmly believed (and still believe) that the stock frame/body configuration sorely needed a major increase of stiffness no matter the engine output. Over the years my thought evolved in the direction of getting maximum stiffness in relation to weight by converting to a unibody platform. The A/G-body chassis was noticeably floppy even back in the day, but by today's standards, it's a sorry bowl of Jello. Separately, stiffening the chassis specifically for surviving high drivetrain torque will be needful no matter the nature of prime mover.

Do hope this helps settle some issues; let's get back to a more positive cadence.

Best,
MAP

Last edited by MAP; 03/05/19 03:04 AM.
#1060988 - 03/05/19 04:28 AM Re: High nine's from zero liters (0 CID) [Re: MAP]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,026
Buick Runner Offline
10+ Year
Buick Runner  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,026
Dharma station 1 the Hydra
Hi Map, I brought up the disconnects as something that should be in the list of items in a crate kit, much like how the Erod comes with an OBD2 port. Some other considerations would be how to power the vacuum brake booster? Most likely solution would be either an electric vacuum pump or a electric hydraulic booster like GNs use. EVs still use liquid cooling like most automotive grade ICEs, and this will require plumbing considerations as well as placing and wiring the coolant pumps for both the motor and battery pack. I do not know if a stock radiator would be enough or if a specialized radiator will be required? Perhaps a crate kit may just simply use air cooling for the battery?

Looking at current hybrids and EVs, they are pretty much two main electrical systems. The high voltage system for powering the drivetrain, (not going on about safety here), and a 12 volt system that uses a seperate 12 volt battery for powering secondary systems. The two are connected by a hi/lo transformer that acts as a voltage regulator in a ICE car. So I would think such a kit would need a harness with blank circuits for various subsystems and customization. Similar to how most Police package cars come with extra blank circuits for wiring up various equipment setups that are customized to each department.

I


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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