MonteCarloSS.com
MonteCarloSS.com

CELEBRATING 20 YEARS!

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#962916 - 02/22/13 01:48 PM G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 116
revels Offline
Member
revels  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 116
Rowland, NC
With the raising prices of gas an OD sounds better each visit to the pump. At this point in my life I have a love/hate relationship with my TH350. I love the hard shifts but hate the MPG.

On my home from work I stop in my local wrecking yard. I ask the guy up front did he have any G-bodies in the back. His response was, "what is a G-body?" I should have left then but I took the time to explain to him what a G-body was. Then I ask do you have any 200r4's. His response to that question was, "what do you want with that piece of junk. I always send them straight to the crusher." I left with my head down thinking what a waste.

Yesterday while coming home from a dental appointment with my son we ran across another wrecking yard. So I took the time to walk in. I asked the owner if he had any 200r4’s. He looked me square in the eye and said, “Yes, I have couple lying around. People don’t usually ask for that trans but I have a few left.” Thinking to myself that I have hit a honey hole! Then he caught me off guard with his next question. He asked, “do you need a standard speedometer or digital?” I was thinking okay maybe he is referring to a transmission out of a Buick Grand National with digital gauges. I answered standard and informed him it was going into a 1984 Monte Carlo. This is when things got good.
We walked over to an old van with several transmissions and he said this one should work. As I was looking at it I noticed it was pretty big. I asked if he was sure that it was a 200r4. He said, “200r4 you mean 700r, they don’t make a 200r4.” My response was,”no not currently but they were in the MCSS, GN, T-Types, Old’s and a few Caddy’s in the eighties.” He informed me that he has been in the wrecking busy for over 20 years and never heard of a 200r4. To top things off there was another customer there that claimed to have an 83 Olds Hurst and an 87 MCSS he too did not know of a 200r4. I asked what was he running and he said, “the factory 700r4 in both.”

Needless to say I thanked them for their time (more like laughs) and went about my way. My question is why do the 200r4 have such a bad reputation and will the Olds/Buick/Caddy version bolt up to my SBC without any problems (that’s if I can ever find one locally).

Last edited by revels; 02/22/13 01:49 PM.

1984 Monte Carlo SS
350/350
#962917 - 02/22/13 01:52 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,079
blubaldmontess Offline
15+ Year
blubaldmontess  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,079
Clarksville, TN
I believe the bolt pattern is universal and the reason for such a bad reputation is 200c ( I believe thats what its called). You'll probably have better luck scouring CL for one than going through junk yards.


I remember the days that cars were lowered and trucks were lifted
#962919 - 02/22/13 02:15 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 12,304
PB86SS/87LS Online beer
Administrator
20+ Year
PB86SS/87LS  Online Beer
Administrator
20+ Year

Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 12,304
New Berlin, WI
The 200-4r is similar to the Q-Jet, or CCC Q-Jets anyway, as far as misinformation/misunderstanding. I'd like to think that has gotten better over the years but in some circles, probably not.


-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42
-81'Grand LeMans Safari Wagon 3.8 2bbl/200C/2.73
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
[Linked Image]
#962928 - 02/22/13 03:23 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 32
-83MONTESS- Offline
Member
-83MONTESS-  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 32
Bellevue, OH
Just so you dont get confused its 2004R not 200R4. This may be why the last guy was confused.

#962934 - 02/22/13 04:57 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,137
84 ZZ4 Offline
10+ Year
84 ZZ4  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,137
San Antonio, TX
Funny story!
I can see them being confused, but the 2 most popular transmissions in pre-digital trannies are the 700r4 and the 2004r. They should have caught the 4r versus r4 letter swap. I have seen the 200 trannies also, those were on several early G bodies on the v6 engines, also known as '200 Metric', which is stamped on the pan.
The 700r4 was In many pickups, suburbans, and many early Corvettes, and can take some abuse. The 2004r can take about as much abuse when upgraded correctly, and is more compact, and will even matchup to Pontiac blocks.

I swapped out my TH350 and couldn't be happier. 1st gear is even lower, and the 1-2 shift does not drop RPMs, then the O/D makes for a much calmer highway cruise.
My car lived most of it's life above 3,000 RPM.

#962935 - 02/22/13 05:12 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,946
Buick Runner Offline
10+ Year
Buick Runner  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,946
Dharma station 1 the Hydra
I think the big problem is alot of people confuse the 2004r with the plain 200C. When they hear 200 they think junk, regardless of which transmission. The 2004r was phased out back in 1990, the 7004r lives on today as the 4L65E. Being out of production for 23 years has not helped.


SBC powered 1987 Regal with TES headers, ZZ4 intake, ZZ4 PROM chip, mini starter, THM2004R, 2500 stall converter, 2040 cam, CCC system, and 3.73 posi rear.

2008 ex NPS P71 Crown Victoria, cop motor, cop shocks, cop brakes, and Jmod.

Never argue with an idiot.
They will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
#962936 - 02/22/13 05:37 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,639
Hey-O Offline
10+ Year
Hey-O  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,639
Ballwin, Mo
If your TH350 trans is in good shape, try this. I went this way and love it. It’s not cheap and no one but me and a few have done this. http://www.gearvendors.com/ ….. http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=954608&page=11


... " HEY - O " ... LET THE HORSES RUN

#962947 - 02/22/13 06:31 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: Hey-O]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 116
revels Offline
Member
revels  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 116
Rowland, NC
I will have to remember the 4r vs r4 next time. I did look at adding OD to my th350 but the cost isn' t cheap. Since she isn't my daily driver I will hold off until I can locate a 200 4r. Really wished I pulled few transmissions and 8.5 rears bad in the day when they were plentiful and common on the yard.


1984 Monte Carlo SS
350/350
#962953 - 02/22/13 06:59 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,797
lefty o Offline
10+ Year
lefty o  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,797
mpls,mn
a quality 2004r isnt cheap either. the reason their reputation isnt that great, is they are kinda on the weak side as they came from the factory. the good thing about them is when properly built, they are a very durable tranny with excellent gearing.
stock vs stock, i'll take a 700r4, but build them equally and i'll take the 2004r any day.


bad black '87 SS, 474hp-355
#962967 - 02/22/13 08:58 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 446
6.084 BlueSS Offline
Member
6.084 BlueSS  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 446
attleboro ma.
I love the 2004r thans.Do some mods to it and good to go.I had my 200 4r built amd its awsome,Put a tci constant pressure valve body http://www.tciauto.com/tc/1981-90-gm-2004r-constant-pressure-valve-bodytm.html. get one of these http://www.summitracing.com/search/produ...ion-type/200-4r A bigger band will help also http://www.tciauto.com/tc/transmission-internals/flex-bands.htmlc,

Last edited by zz485ss; 02/22/13 09:02 PM.
#963000 - 02/23/13 02:51 AM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 102
86ssct Offline
Member
86ssct  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 102
Ansonia, Ct
How strong is the "metric 200"?
I have access to 1 that was rebuilt from gm. It has the ac delco tags on it still...
I'd be putting it behind a mild 350 (320 horse) in a 87 mcss.

#963016 - 02/23/13 04:40 AM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: 86ssct]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,215
Jameson Offline
15+ Year
Jameson  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,215
Elizabeth City, NC
Originally Posted By: 86ssct
How strong is the "metric 200"?
I have access to 1 that was rebuilt from gm. It has the ac delco tags on it still...
I'd be putting it behind a mild 350 (320 horse) in a 87 mcss.


The metric 200 is literally junk, they fall apart behind N/A 231 V6 motors with normal driving... Wouldn't be worth it at all..


1988 Monte Carlo SS Eaton 112 5.3/T56 swap, Way to many mods to list.
2015 GMC Sierra Denali



#963054 - 02/23/13 06:11 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: Jameson]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 971
mikeasis Offline
Member
mikeasis  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 971
faimont, wv
I believe the clutches were the big problem for the 200c. Normally a rebuild would get better clutches. Still don't think I'd use it behind a 350

And since when is it referred to 2004r?

700r4=turbo 700 with reverse and 4 forward gears
200r4=turbo 200 with reverse and 4 forward gears

At least this how it was explained to me


1986 Monte SC. 4.3 TBI V6 with Vortec heads and a Luntani cam backed by a WC T5 and 3.42's outback.
#963065 - 02/23/13 09:19 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: mikeasis]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,822
MY FYN 79 Offline
Moderator
15+ Year
MY FYN 79  Offline
Moderator
15+ Year

Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,822
N/E WI
Originally Posted By: mikeasis
And since when is it referred to 2004r?


Always has been cause thats what its called. smile

http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods-...ntification.asp

I believe the r code is not for reverse. Most auto transmissions are sporting the reverse gear... at least when new. laugh


~Jeremy~
79 Monte - Sold 5-11-13
Welcome Natalee Mae 3-16-12
[Linked Image]
#963070 - 02/23/13 10:53 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 67
galeaiii Offline
Member
galeaiii  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 67
New Richmond, Ohio
Check out http://gbodyparts.com/. Lonnie from extremeautomatics.com is workin there now. He builds one hell of a 200-4R.



86' SS, 383, Extreme Automatics 200-4R, Hotchkis TVS, 8.5 rear w/3.73 posi
#963074 - 02/23/13 11:17 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: mikeasis]  
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,752
84LS1T56SS Offline
Member
84LS1T56SS  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,752
Central, Arkansas
Originally Posted By: mikeasis
I believe the clutches were the big problem for the 200c. Normally a rebuild would get better clutches. Still don't think I'd use it behind a 350

And since when is it referred to 2004r?

700r4=turbo 700 with reverse and 4 forward gears
200r4=turbo 200 with reverse and 4 forward gears

At least this how it was explained to me

These have been 200-4R ever since the day they were released. Don't ask me why GM changed the designation, but they did.



85 MCSS, 02 5.3/4L60E stock daily driver,84 MCSS, Another stock 5.3/60E.
#963079 - 02/23/13 11:44 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: 84LS1T56SS]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 971
mikeasis Offline
Member
mikeasis  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 971
faimont, wv
Ok i can go with 200-4r

I think 2004r just jumbled my brain looking like two thousand four-r

I had an automatics class in college and the instructor stated the 4 was for 4 forward gears with r being reverse. Letters and numbers designate different things

4L80E =4 speed longitudely? mounted (rear wheel drive) don't remember what the 80 was for and the E was electronically controlled.

There's a letter designation for FWD transmissions that I don't recall

Then again I could be wrong...


1986 Monte SC. 4.3 TBI V6 with Vortec heads and a Luntani cam backed by a WC T5 and 3.42's outback.
#963166 - 02/24/13 07:48 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: mikeasis]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 971
mikeasis Offline
Member
mikeasis  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 971
faimont, wv
4T60E is an od FWD trans. t being for transverse


1986 Monte SC. 4.3 TBI V6 with Vortec heads and a Luntani cam backed by a WC T5 and 3.42's outback.
#963216 - 02/25/13 01:08 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,275
basemonte Offline
15+ Year
basemonte  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,275
Old Bridge, NJ
The 200 3 speeds have their use in drag racing sportman's classes. They are favored for their light weight, and lower parasitic losses in comparison to a TH350. Of course everything is billet.

#963217 - 02/25/13 01:25 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 116
revels Offline
Member
revels  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 116
Rowland, NC
I mainly was looking for one for the compatibility to my th350 vs a 700. I really dont plan on racing and saving weight is not that big of an issue. The car has been without OD for the past 29 yrs I guess waiting a little shouldnt be a problem.


1984 Monte Carlo SS
350/350
#963237 - 02/25/13 06:46 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,102
Hunter79764 Offline
Member
Hunter79764  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,102
Grand Prairie, Tx
Right after I bought my car with 73k miles on it, the tranny went out (during normal driving, hadn't beat on it much at all and the previous owner was an 80 year old lady that bought it new). Took it in to a shop, found out it was the 200C, and found a rebuild tag marked 1993. 2 transmissions in less than 75k miles of light use with a 4.3 V6, so yeah, I'd avoid using one if at all possible, especially since the swap to a TH350 was almost direct (the guy actually charged less for the 350 vs the 200). Again, if properly built I've heard of them doing well in racing, but you have to have money tied up in it to make it worth it. Not just a stock rebuild, imho.

It's amazing the amount of misinformation out there about our cars sometimes...


Shawn

'85 MC with budget 5.3L swap, TH350 with stock 2.14 rear end
It ain't much off the line, but it's nice on the highway
#963239 - 02/25/13 07:21 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 12,304
PB86SS/87LS Online beer
Administrator
20+ Year
PB86SS/87LS  Online Beer
Administrator
20+ Year

Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 12,304
New Berlin, WI
200C that is, for the above. The 200-4r's bad rap is largely in part due to the 200C, IMO.


-86'SS 383 CCC QJet- BRF 2004r-8.5" 3.42
-87'LS 350 MAF/SD TPI- CRF 2004r-7.5" 3.42
-81'Grand LeMans Safari Wagon 3.8 2bbl/200C/2.73
-07'TBSS Stockish daily driver
[Linked Image]
#963266 - 02/25/13 11:25 PM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,275
basemonte Offline
15+ Year
basemonte  Offline
15+ Year
Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,275
Old Bridge, NJ
Originally Posted By: revels
I mainly was looking for one for the compatibility to my th350 vs a 700. I really dont plan on racing and saving weight is not that big of an issue. The car has been without OD for the past 29 yrs I guess waiting a little shouldnt be a problem.


Was just saying that the maligned metric 200 has its use. Wasn't suggesting that you go with a 200. 2004r all the way. Have 3 G bodies in the family running that trans. Fortunately, also have a rebulder that makes them work. All three units were rebuild by the same guy.

#963293 - 02/26/13 03:33 AM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: Jameson]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,012
Richie Cat Offline
10+ Year
Richie Cat  Offline
10+ Year
Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,012
Lake Ronkonkoma, N.Y.
Originally Posted By: Jameson
[quote=86ssct]

The metric 200 is literally junk, they fall apart behind N/A 231 V6 motors with normal driving... Wouldn't be worth it at all..

This from Wikipedia:
In 1980, for the 1981 model year, the 200-4R (sometimes called 200R4) was introduced for use in GM vehicles. Internally, the components which were prone to failure in the THM200 were improved, and this transmission was used with high-power applications — primarily the Buick Grand National and the 1982 Chevy Corvette. GMs powered with the Oldsmobile 5.7 L Diesel powerplant were coupled with the 200-4R in place of the 200. The 200-4R was configured with several different torque converters and gear ratios depending on the vehicle application.
Unlike the 700R4, the 200-4R has a multicase bellhousing for use with Chevrolet, Buick/Olds/Pontiac (BOP), and Cadillac powerplants. Since the external dimensions are similar to the THM-350, 200-4Rs are often swapped in place of THM-350s in older vehicles to provide an overdrive gear. (However, in situations where case clearance and the need for drive shaft modification isn't an issue, the TH400 is more of a close mounting match to the 200-4R. Placement of the mount is identical. The yoke needs to be changed in most circumstances, and the drive shaft length will be different as well.)
Early models had PRND321 on the cluster, while later models had PRN(D)D21, with the left D identified as the overdrive gear by a square or oval ring.
The THM200-4R can be found in the following vehicles:
1981-90 Cadillac Fleetwood, de Ville and Brougham
1981-88 Buick LeSabre, Electra RWD, Chevelle, Monte Carlo, Malibu and El Camino
1982-90 Chevrolet Impala, Caprice, Olds Delta 88, 98 and Custom Cruiser
1984-87 GMC Caballero and Pontiac Grand Prix
1983-88 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442 and Supreme
1983-89 Pontiac Bonneville, Parisienne and Safari Wagon
1981-87 Buick Regal
1981 Buick Century and Pontiac Firebird (with 301cid engine)
The THM200-4R was phased out after 1990 — its final usage was in the GM B-body lineup (Chevrolet Caprice, Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser station wagon, Cadillac Brougham) coupled to either a Chevrolet 305 or an Oldsmobile 307 engine. It is believed that an HD version of the 200-4R was used in the late 80s Caprice 9C1 police package using the internals from the Buick Grand National.

I will have to disagree with the statement of a 200C falling apart. My car started out as a V-6 231 with the 200C. With over 100,000 miles it still worked "well". I will say by then it did slip a little when pushing it.
Though some people like to use the 200C:
http://www.drwtransmission.com/thm_200C.htm


83 SC, 355 w/TPI
#963617 - 03/01/13 04:50 AM Re: G-body/200r4 People Just Don't Know [Re: revels]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,087
novaderrik Offline
Member
novaderrik  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,087
Ashby, MN
i got in an argument over the phone with a guy at a NAPA when i was trying to find a filter and gasket for the 200-4r trans in my T Type a couple of years ago... i was calling every parts store in an increasing radius trying to find the parts to get my car back together on a friday so i could drive it over the weekend.. most places asked for year/make/model/engine/trans and told me that they didn't have a gasket for a 200-4r.. but this one guy just seemed like he thought he knew it all.. he answered, i told him i needed a trans filter and gasket for an overdrive trans in an 84 Regal.. without any delay, he said "they didn't put an overdrive trans in an 84 Regal" i said "yes, they did. i own one. it's got the turbocharged 3.8".. he said "they didn't put a turbo in an 84 Regal, what's the engine out of?" i said "it's stock. look it up on your computer and tell me if you have it". he said "i don't need to look it up. they never put that engine in anything until 87, and it had a 700r4 behind it if you got the overdrive trans option".. i took a deep breathe, and asked "do you have the filter and gasket in stock for an 87 GN?"... he said "yeah, we've got a whole bunch of those for the TH350 that they put in those cars and i don't even need to look it up".. i hung up, i'd had enough..

i later learned that this guy was known as a good parts guy and has been in the business for over 30 years..

Last edited by novaderrik; 03/01/13 04:53 AM.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/568279446VvVgWO

86 MC SS- rough, but fixable. looks like something Dale Sr might have driven back to the transport after a race at Bristol.
84 regal T Type with 64,000 miles and almost no options
74 Monte Carlo cruiser
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Random Images
539/thumbs/Cnv0011.jpg
by Performance
500/thumbs/IMG_9648.jpg
by jnw86
536/thumbs/22.jpg
by ssmnt408
500/thumbs/20120403_201914.jpg
by valvefloat ss
500/thumbs/27.JPG
by Mark's SS
Help MonteCarloSS.com


Recent Contributors
dns87ss
Authorized Vendors
Tell them you saw it
on MonteCarloSS.com!


CustomMonteSSParts.com
Dixie Monte Carlo Depot
GSI Interiors
HRpartsNstuff
Mikes Montes
Savitske Classic & Custom
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0