new weather stripping question?

Posted By: Rodney

new weather stripping question? - 02/23/13 04:02 PM

Anyone got new weather stripping for their car recently? I should just need it for the doors and trunk. Curious about what brand is the best and where you've found the best prices.

Posted By: 86ttop

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/23/13 04:11 PM I used factory on my car, don't know if that is still available. Good luck.
Posted By: carloss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/23/13 07:52 PM

I would use GM for the doors if you can afford it. Nothing else seems to fit right.

Rt Dr Lower #20277448
Lf Dr Lower #20277449
Rt Dr Roof Rail #20737658
Lf Dr Roof Rail #20737659

Posted By: Justino

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/24/13 01:00 AM

I bought these, they were cheap and I'm poor so it worked out. Looks good, fits good, easy install. No complaints here.

(outer only)

(outer and inner)

Posted By: MikesMontes

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/24/13 02:38 AM

$199 9pc door and trunk kit ---door seals roofrail seals-- inner and outer door sweeps --and trunk seal
Posted By: Rodney

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/24/13 05:30 PM

Are those GM or something else?
Posted By: MikesMontes

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/24/13 06:00 PM

soffseal --Gm are good but this kit would cost almost $1000 Gm
Posted By: ls1_monte

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/24/13 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: MikesMontes
soffseal --Gm are good but this kit would cost almost $1000 Gm

MIke got any nos lower door seals??
Posted By: Buick Runner

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/25/13 12:19 AM

From my experience, aftermarket roof rail seals work okay, but only GM door seals fit right. Aftermarket door seals have incorrect end pads that do not mesh right with any brand of roof rail seal. You also can't get a correct seal with bad door hinges.
Posted By: carloss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/25/13 12:49 AM

I believe the drivers side door seals are now discontinued by GM
Posted By: MikesMontes

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/25/13 01:44 AM

couple sets in stock
Posted By: Joe b.

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/27/13 12:20 AM

soft seal are very good and fit well to.
Posted By: kevins88ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/27/13 01:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Buick Runner
From my experience, aftermarket roof rail seals work okay, but only GM door seals fit right. Aftermarket door seals have incorrect end pads that do not mesh right with any brand of roof rail seal. You also can't get a correct seal with bad door hinges.

Posted By: tmos87

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/27/13 04:13 AM

I haven't been around for a while but for what it's worth, I used Soft Seal weather strips...I glued plastic to the back of the door seals where they screw to the rear of the door. Kind of like the factory parts...Keeps them from tearing at the screw holes...overall I'm very happy with the fit and function of both upper and lower seals. I got them to fit...but good hinges are a must as stated above.
Posted By: Rodney

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/27/13 02:26 PM

Thanks for all the info guys.
Posted By: runupfront

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/27/13 03:40 PM

I got Soffseal lower door seals for my 86 Monte and they don't fit the doors. Was a real bummer.
Posted By: Flyith2

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/01/13 03:30 AM

Id try to find factory replacements. Mine have lasted for 28 years now and there isn't any problems. My dad has a 72 chevelle ss and got new weather weatherstripping for that and it was very expensive and didn't fit 100 percent right. Like 86 ttop said, check they have some nice stuff
Posted By: MAP

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/01/13 07:39 PM

Hi Folks,

Interesting that over the years, the reports about Soffseal have been all over the map - from "they fit like a glove," to, "they didn't fit at all." This seems to suggest that part-part variation is high. Since mold cavities tend to be very consistent, this seems to suggest high variation in material, which can, among other things, affect shrinkage after extraction from the mold.

I'm curious if anyone has further insight here.

Posted By: phils_super sport

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/06/13 01:55 AM

I bought the whole soffseal kit.I didn't have a problem with the fitment on the hood,trunk or doors.but its been about 4 years and now the door seal are starting to break apart a little bit at the seam.also I have problems with the t-top seal around the top of the window where their not thick enough.if you can go original thats the way i'd go.
Posted By: carloss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/06/13 05:01 AM

It's interesting that GM shows a different part # for Regal/Cutlass door weatherstrips than Monte Carlo/ Grand Prix and Soffseal only shows one for all g-bodies. Maybe there's a slight difference and the soffseals are more universal resulting in less than perfect fit.

Here are the Monte Carlo PN's:

Rt Dr Lower #20277448
Lf Dr Lower #20277449
Rt Dr Roof Rail #20737658
Lf Dr Roof Rail #20737659

Here are the Regal/Cutlass PN's:

Rt Dr Lower #20201221
Lf Dr Lower #20201220
Rt Dr Roof Rail #20737658
Lf Dr Roof Rail #20737659
Posted By: Buick Runner

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/06/13 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By: MAP
Hi Folks,

Interesting that over the years, the reports about Soffseal have been all over the map - from "they fit like a glove," to, "they didn't fit at all." This seems to suggest that part-part variation is high. Since mold cavities tend to be very consistent, this seems to suggest high variation in material, which can, among other things, affect shrinkage after extraction from the mold.

Carlos: I always suspected something like that, that kind of things is a very big problem with using aftermarket brand parts. They tend to label generic, universal fit parts as correct fit when they really are not. Like FRAM's incorrect spec PCV valves that they sell for our cars.

I'm curious if anyone has further insight here.


This will probably make some mad, but I suspect most of the "good" reports are from people who don't know how the door should seal. My lower door Softseals, the end pads were not even remotely the correct shape to mesh with the roofrail seals. The end pads just pushed the glass and the roof seal out of alignment causing a gap and a hard to close door. One of the big factors is that the end pads on the GM seals have a nylon reinforcement plate molded into the end pads. Softseal and Metro seal don't have the backing plates which is why they tend to rip out from the screw holes, they just don't hold their shape. Sometimes the aftermarket just sells us pure trash.
Posted By: aeromonteSS

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/01/13 03:48 PM

Just installed a set of Softseal door seals. Horrible fit - the washer ripped out of the super thin end and I had to stretch the hell out of that end to even get it close to the factory screw hole (door jam with latch assembly end). The quality of the seal seems nice and the plastic fasteners line up great, but the end caps are like a generic universal fit that do not fit at all (actually the end closest to the door hinges fit pretty good - it's the other end you see when you open the door that's not even close to a good fit).

Any other reproduction brand that fits more like OEM????
I heard that Metro are good, but who knows..

Anyone try these? They are expensive for after market but still less than GM ones..
Posted By: MikesMontes

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/01/13 11:37 PM

hint Trimparts make no seals at this time --(you would get the same part in a red bag instead of blue)
Posted By: robert87ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/02/13 01:09 AM

anyone try steele rubber?
Posted By: MikesMontes

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/02/13 10:38 AM

steele is metro rebagged
Posted By: Phil87SS

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/03/13 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: MikesMontes
steele is metro rebagged

What about the G-Body link above? They mention nothing beats GM but they carry some they think may be as well-made..... but, they don't say who makes them.
I bought a complete kit about 5 years ago (still in closet waiting till I paint) and I may have bought them from you Mike, they are Soft Seal and I thought they 'looked' a lot like my originals.
In any case, I think anyone that is going to the trouble to replace all the 'stripping should refurb the hinges.
Posted By: Big C

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/08/13 05:13 AM

Tried to call your 800 number this past week and it keep hanging up on me. Would like to discuss ttop mouldings with you.
Posted By: Kawaiikeno

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/11/13 04:13 AM

Spend the extra money and get the GM seals.
We went the soft seal route this spring door and roof rail seals. 3 different shops worked on the windows trying to get them to even come close to sealing without any luck. I ended up using the soft seal door seals they don't fit right but seem to be useable and GM roof rail seals. By the time I gave up on the soft seals they had the windows so far out of adjustment it took forever to get them right with the GM seals.
Long story short I have way more in labor than what I would have spent going all GM in the first place and they are still not perfect.

Kirban performance in Pa. Sells A book on adjusting windows for noise and rattles they also sell anti rattle kits and motors and have an employee by the Name of Pete Hoffman who is rumored to be the new G Body window guy
Good luck
Posted By: MikesMontes

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/11/13 10:29 AM

I was on my one day vacation july 4 -8 call now Mike
Posted By: robert87ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/14/13 05:40 PM

does anyone know who makes the "goodmark" weatherstrips?
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/01/18 04:59 AM

Digging up an old post but the same question, just 5 years later.

Shopping now to replace just the left top door seal. Would love to find a left GM seal lying on someone shelf, 20277449, but that ain't going to happen.
Basically still three venders, Metro, Soft Seal and Goodmark. Did two Metro sets on two different vehicles many years ago, did a Soft Seal kit on a 67 Camaro 10 years ago, wasn't happy with any of those installs.
Anyone lately used any of those product and was happy with them?
Posted By: MikesMontes

Re: new weather stripping question? - 07/25/18 09:38 AM

goodmark is Metro --still only 2 out there
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/03/18 02:01 AM

Mike, ran across this door weatherstrip kit tonight. Do you know anything about them?

Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/07/18 04:26 PM

Well decided to purchase the Fairchild door seals to see about the quality of their product. Mostly because the other available upper door seals, Metro (Goodmark) and Softseal seem to be unacceptable to most who have bought them. Have seen and installed other products from those venders and need to try someone else. The price of the Fairchild is priced comparable to Metro and Softseal, that makes me question the quality but only after having the part in hand can I truely see the quality and fit. Wish i could find a OEM driver door upper seal for the left side but that doesn't happen these days.
Both Rockauto and Summit sell the Fairchild and Summit is 20 bucks cheaper, hard to believe.
Order completed.
Have thrown away new parts I've purchased in the past. The difference today is you buy from the internet and can't touch, examine, the part before purchasing. New Gates alternator belt from Rockauto, CHINA, went in trash before install.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/12/18 04:57 AM

The Fairchild seals showed up today, unfortunately when I ordered them I was having a senior moment. Not paying attention to details on their website I ordered the door seals, KG 3142, DAH, need the roof seals DH 3138. They are on their way now, drop shipped from Fairchild via Summit.

So now i will have a complete new set of seals for the doors if I ever get around to painting the door jambs.
The quality looked good on the door seals, fit, who knows for now. They feel very soft, and have all the details molded in. They came kinda folded in a plastic bag, some creasing at the folds, will let one hang free for a while to see if the creases disappear.

Minor detail about the production of my car. The metal trim that screws to the B pillar on the driver's side is chrome instead of blacked out. The non-SS cars got chrome. Somehow someone on the production line screwed up.The seal gets installed in a channel in that piece. I owned the car for almost 10 years before Steve Ragusa pointed it out to me, never noticed it. When he parted out his 85 SS he sent me that trim piece, I sat on it for a decade until refinishing it the other night.
It will get swapped in when the ROOF SEAL is installed.
Posted By: FrankOC

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/14/18 12:24 PM

Bob, are the weather strips reinforced on the ends?
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/14/18 03:04 PM

Frank I will feel for the reinforcing in the ends when I get back to the shop. I know the factory door seals have a white plastic piece embedded in the ends. Not sure if the original roof seals have one at the A pillar end.
Do you know if the SoftSeal or Metro have the plastic embedded?
Posted By: FrankOC

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/14/18 04:32 PM

From what I have heard, they do not
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/15/18 03:45 AM

After kicking myself in the butt for ordering the wrong seal didn't spend much time with them in my hand. Realized the door panel needs to be removed for install, stuck them back in the bag and box, that's another day. Will take another look tomorrow, but I'd guess they don't have the insert either.
Roof seals should show up Mon or Tues, maybe an install on the left side later in the week.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/16/18 05:48 AM

Nope, no plastic insert in the door seal ends like stock seals have. Would also say you need to glue the end pads to the door along with the couple press pins or screws used there.
When they ship the seals they are folded in places to get them in a plastic bag. At the folds there are creases caused by the folding. Tonight laid out one of the door seals flat to see if that crease will relax.

Actually thinking about buying the Softseal set to compare them side by side.
Posted By: AkronAero

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/16/18 02:40 PM

some now have grommets to prevent/reduce tears - see then in Mikes Montes site.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/17/18 03:41 AM

Not sure what you mean by "grommets". Looked through Mike's site and didn't see what you are referring to.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/21/18 03:28 AM

The Fairchild roof rail seals showed up Tues, Seem to be good quality. The seal section down the B pillar is very firm and has some type of insert inside to make it firmer.
The creases in the door seals from folding/bending them to fit in a bag seems to be relaxing and may not be a problem.
Picked up two tubes of 3M Black Weatherstrip adhesive #08008.

Found that Steele Rubber Products sells all the seal for the car. On one of their videos they mention washers in-bedded in the ends where the push pins go in, Fairchilds doesn't have that.
Also the Steele price for the roof rail seal is twice the price of the other three choices. Hmmmmm?

Good video on gluing the seals.

Won't get around to doing the replacements until the Winter doldrums.
Posted By: 86ttop

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/21/18 03:36 AM

use the black RTV sparingly, just a small line under the seals.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 10/23/18 04:43 AM

Confused by what is what. Going to make a few calls and emails to try and see who re brands what seals. Sellers appear to be Softseal, Metro, Fairchild who appear to be there own products. Goodmark (Softseal), Steele (Metro), Trim Parts (Metro?) just repackage?

Looked at what is involved to replace the seals again tonight. Thinking that the door seals need to be done first, wait a week or so for the seals to conform, they are pretty soft and may take a set quickly. Then pull the roof seals and touch up the A pillar paint at the bottom area of the seal first. Do one door initially so if the left turns out bad you only have one bad install. Door hinges should be done but they aren't terrible, very little sag, they have been well maintained for the car's entire life, 33 years.

Did an R&R on both of the doors internals a few years ago when new GM belt line seals were done, glass guides, felts, adjustments and lube was done. Hopefully don't need to tweak the glass fit to the new roof seals. Time will tell.
Posted By: shuend

Re: new weather stripping question? - 12/08/18 01:56 AM

Let me share my experience about these weatherstrips. Back to 2000, I had my 86 repaint, and I order a set of soff seal complete kit from Soff Seal. After my car finally finish paint, body shop install all the new weatherstrips, and find out the driver window was wrong (it was for a 4 doors car), So I rush to a Chevrolet dealer parts department brought a OEM driver's window roof seal. No problem for install. OK, after a few years later, the OEM seal starting to harden and braking apart. And the Soff seal on the passenger's window still at good condition at this day. So for all the guys willing pay high dollar for a original seal, you have to think when was GM made these seal? For sure not this few years. Possible 20 or 30 ago.
Posted By: MikesMontes

Re: new weather stripping question? - 12/08/18 04:20 PM

Trimparts bought Soffseal a couple years ago ---so they no longer offer seals
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 01/06/19 05:57 AM

To start the door seal/roof repainting project an inspection of the door hinges was done first. The original driver's upper hinge is in trouble, bushings/pins will fix the other three. Debated between the overpriced GM hinge or aftermarket. After talking to Mike ordered an aftermarket left upper door hinge from him and bushings to to do the other three hinges. An R&R of the hinge areas gets done first which includes painting the A pillar from behind the roof seal (light surface rust under the roof seal at the bottom) to the rocker. New blow out clips, change out the chrome driver's B pillar trim to black which was installed 33 years ago by a confused GM factory worker, then the new seals that I hope fit well. This should freshen up the door and seal fit.

Once that piece of the project is done, doors/windows adjustments, will move on to getting the roof some fresh black paint. Had a new windshield installed several months ago and installed a good used set of plastic strips that go between the trim and glass. Ordered a new set from Mike in case pulling the trim damages the plastic strips. Not planning on pulling the rear glass, just it's trim for roof repaint.

The repaint of the roof is a preservation thing, not a car show trophy thing. Painted the Goodmark hood in lacquer, the rest of the top surfaces will be lacquer. In a year or so the roof will look like the rest of the car which is lacquer, just will have no grazing, leaf marks, pits and bare spots. I see WAY to many cars that end up in the paint penitentiary costing Way to much money and the owner crying when they get that first big scratch. The car is a driver and besides I hate waxing cars. Yes lacquer is work to keep the shine, but for me that's like once a year to bring it back to life. No big deal.

Now one of my Winter projects has got started.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 01/15/19 05:11 AM

I guess this post has sidetracked to a door R&R now. Mostly because in order to do seals the doors have to fit/align correctly first. And because it appears the few people who actually read forums anymore won't mind it the post deviates from "where can I find GM seals for my car".

Started with pass door first being the hinge pins/bushing and the roller were in very good condition, no door sag. And it was the guinea pig for the drivers door which is the important one. Made a wood cradle to support the door so it could be slid out away from the body to do the bushings without removing the hinges or disconnecting the window/lock wires. Hindsight now says pull the wires and get the door far enough away so the A pillar seam and paint repair was easier to do.

With very little room to work a hacksaw blade in Lenox blade holder is all that you fit in there to cut the pins, about an hour to cut two pins. A cutoff wheel would work but having fine metal chips everywhere wasn't happening. Because the left and right lower hinges on our cars are the same hinge on the right side the pin is driven up, and the left side it's down from the factory. On the right lower hinge it will hit the inside of the door when removed, so that side is cut 1" above the bottom of the hinge. Oh, the pins need to be cut to remove as they have a crimp on the pin end that won't pass through the hinge. The head of the pin has flutes that press into the hinge to secure it and to prevent it turning. Using a 5/16" bolt, some nuts and washers made a press to push the fluted old pin out easily rather than beating the pin out with a hammer. As I removed one of the pin sections it was ground undersized and a taper point put on the end and placed back in the hole it came from, now have four 1/2 pins installed. At that point I had a door ready to pull. Put the window back up and closed the door, it was 3 am.

Second day pulled the door away pretty easily after pulling four stub pins. Lesson, door spring now has dropped out, this will complicate the reinstall later, hmmm. Washed everywhere, a bunch of sanding on the A where the roof seal was clued, picked a fair amount of old dry seal sealer out, more sanding, reapplied new SEM seam sealer to necessary areas, waited, masked off areas to be painted, primed, two coated of black Duplicolor, top half of A jamp and old hinges refinished.

Between coats of paint removed 95% of the roof seal, they had it glue the entire length in two spots. It come out in a million pieces. A trip to the body supply last week looking for 3M 08971 adhesive remover was fruitless. They sold me a qt of wax and tar remover, good for paint prep but didn't touch the 33 year old adhesive in the rail. I need to be careful about getting all the old stuff be gone, no plans on any paint work there.

Third day in was Sat afternoon. Made a press from another 5/16" bolt and installed the four bushings. The top hinge lower bushing is larger OD than the other three and appears to be bronze not brass like the others. Something I never knew about these cars, of course I never looked in the 27 year I've owned it.
The top hinge on the door has the spring and arm cam on that side. The fixed roller is on the body side. Using a long tie wrap through a hole in the arm, then behind the hinge, the spring can be held in place with some tension. It stayed put through the next hour or more battle to follow.

When sliding the door back in place the spring now comes into play, it needs to be compress, the cam is now pushing on the roller. The spring has a lot of mechanical advantage via leverage which made pushing the door hinges into alignment not possible.. An hour was wasted just trying to get that extra inch in to drop a tapered pin in the top hole. Finally got the door spring compressor out of the drawer and finagled it into a place to compress the spring enough to eventually, with the help of the wood door cradle, the Lincoln and a hefty friend get a tapered pin in the top hole. Before a stub tapered pin goes in the bottom hinge the compressor needs to be removed, that's how tight things are. Another tapered stub pin is inserted up through the lower hole in the lower hinge. A new pin is inserted through the top of the lower hinge, knocks out the tapered pin on the bottom. Next a pin is inserted thru the bottom of the top hinge, drives out the stub pin up there. Almost done.

The flutes on the new pin need to be seated in the hinge. With the hinges mounted to the door and body sheetmetal it is all but impossible to seat them fully, to much flex in the steel arms of the hinges, door/body sheetmetal. Tried numerous way of backing up the hinge for support. It is hard enough even to get something on the pin heads to drive them. Furiously beating on them to drive them home is only damaged something, I realized that very early and after several attempts to drive them home decided if they are seated 1/2 of their flute that was enough and got the MIG out and tack welded the top of the new pin to the hinge so it wouldn't move. A little paint on the weld and no one will ever know i did that. The end result is the same.

Cleaned up all the tools and mess around the job site and closed the door. Wow, the door is exactly where it was before, but why wouldn't it, there was nothing wrong with the bushing before you spent three days fixing something that wasn't broke. Thankfully the other side will be easier, new top hinge will make that much easier, no spring to contend with.
Rolled up the window, closed the door and turned off the shop lights, and the heat, and the water, it's cold here. The cold makes it hard to get motivated to pull the rest of the pass door apart to start the door seal install. The pass door is the guinea pig to see how the Fairchild seals fit. It get used like 1/20th the time the drivers door does. If i don't like the fit I'll buy something else and try it on the driver's side door.

Long post, yep, three cups of coffee and a Mon evening with the wood stove cranking downstairs, it's toasty here at the desk.
Will update later after the fight with the seal install on the pass side.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 01/28/19 03:21 AM

Progress on the pass door has been slowed by several things the past few weeks, cold weather, wife had gallbladder removed, and finding paint materials to R&R the door. Pulling the door seal I expected there was some repaint to do around the door drains holes, surface rust on the back corner but didn't expect to find an fairly large area that need extensive refinishing. It appears that the door seal was retaining water and produced a rusted area about a foot from the back corner. Not pretty but can save the area without welding in a patch. Currently started the paint process, self etching, then sandable primer, then top coat with several coats of Duplicolor black. Will only paint the bottom the door and rear jamb side up to the latch.

With the door apart the inside bottom pinch weld area was cleaned and prepped for a coating of POR 15. Two window motors are ordered, both doors to be replaced, the holes to access the window motor bolts are drilled.

When previously having both door apart years ago to do beltline molding an attempt was made back then to fix the door skin to door guard beam urethane that dries out, falls into the bottom of the door, and causes that rattle when the doors are closed. The orange urethane was used to bond the door skin to the door guard at the factory. It's a very difficult area to access and re apply adhesive to stop that rattle. Tried to bridge the 3/8"-1/2" gap using RTV last time and was only slightly successful because that RTV will not bridge that gap and stay put. This time on the pass door made 9 short plastic bridges from the top edge of the beam to the door skin, affixed with RTV then once firmed up laid another coating of RTV down on the bridge to add more strength. I've seen spray foam used as the fix for this problem but thought that foam would retain moisture.

Progress has been slow, but getting there. One more door to do after this one.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 01/30/19 05:56 AM

New motors should arrive Weds, tomorrow, door bottoms are primed, pinch weld seam seals touched up, and ready for top coat. Added a little more RTV to the bridges, happy with them now. Hopefully with new door/roof seals and the RTV the rattle will be gone.

As far as window motor install the Helm's says window must be up, clamp window in place, remove motor. The window regulator sprocket is at the bottom when the window is up making motor removal through the access hole difficult. Haven't found a good, accurate video of a G body window motor replacement. Will try the window down method first. The motor doesn't care about what orientation the regulator is in.

Found this old post on the, found it interesting. Noted in that post is the body ground for the window circuit, it appears it's inside the driver's door. Mentioned it's possible as the door hinge bushing become junk the ground path for the window circuit could be compromised. Will have to check that. After the new pass motor is installed will see what happens when a temporary ground direct to the battery and driver's door effects speed.

The focus of the Buick post is how the the internal circuit breaker in the window motor can cause a motor to run slow, and how to bypass the breaker.

Recently install a Delco replacement motor in my 95 Astro, window speed increase significantly. Bought the same motors, different # number, for the SS. Hoping to notice a difference just from motor install.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/02/19 03:51 AM

WWWWAAAAAYYYY to cold the past several days to spend time in the shop, especially to spot in some lacquer. So cold in there that the packing on the water shutoff valve seeped and had a iceberg attached to it today. There is heat tape and pipe insulation that wraps the supply, the pipe never froze in the past 20 years. first time for the that iceberg. Supposed to be warm next week, replacing that 1" ball valve is at the top of the list now.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/07/19 05:27 AM

Replaced the water shutoff valve last Sat, it was a warm day, like 32 degrees. As expected the long term memory is not good, it was a 3/4" valve, not 1". Done for a while now.

Installed the new Delco window motor. Once you drill out access to the three mounting bolts it's an easy removal with the window rolled all the way down against it's down travel stop. Helms manual say clamp window in the full up position to remove, no need to do that. Also Helms say use 3/4" hole saw in dimples to get to the bolts, two dimples were off bolt centers and couldn't get socket on bolt heads, had to "move" holes rearward a little with a grinder to get the 13mm socket on them. New bracket that came with the new motor doesn't have tapped holes for bolts, tapped them to 5/16" before install that bracket to the new motor. Old bolts had no indication whether they were US or metric on their head and they are only 1/2" long and couldn't use pitch gauge to determine thread. Would have thought they would be metric, 8-1.25, but think that's was another short cut GM did in the metric conversion of the G-body, left the window motor bolts the same thread the earlier US bolt cars used. Go figure.

Being the car has sat in the frigid cold shop for weeks now the battery was charged for a couple days to insure full 12 volts. Once the new motor was installed, cleaned the wire connector before install, lubed the tracks for the rollers with lithium, the two regulator pivot points lubed with 80 wt oil, sprocket/motor gear with lithium and worked the window up and down several times. Those lube points were all done a few years ago when the beltline trim was replaced and were in very good condition then, and now.
The results netted from installing the new motor is noticeable, window does go up and down faster on just 12 volts battery voltage, they will be even faster with the engine running, and now acceptable. Worth the 40 bucks for the motor. When i replaced the driver window motor in my Astro last Summer the old motor was disassembled to look at the commutator and brushes. You can see why the motor slows over time, wear and oil on the segments. Also the contact points on the internal thermal take a beating as noted in that Turbobuick link.

Now I can list window motors as speed parts, 40 bucks for a +50% increase in speed. Wish cheap engine parts got those results.

Two coats of POR15 done to the door inside at the pinch weld, maybe 1" to 2" up each side of that valley. POR doesn't stick to the Rusty Jones rustproofing that was dealer install when this car was new. It was sprayed in the lower 4 to 5" of the door and helped preserve the bottom of the door. Thanks for that, but removing that rustproofing is a mess, been there, done that, naphtha. End result was Rusty stayed on above the POR paint line, and the POR will protect the door bottom now. Done, check inside bottom door off the list.

Next is paint the black lacquer on the door's jamb areas, Will spray from the door latch down, entire bottom edge and up the front edge to the lower hinge. You will see none off this with the door closed so blending old with new won't be an issue. As I mentioned earlier Duplicolor doesn't make the specific black paint code anymore, now a universal gloss black lacquer. Duplicolor now makes a code specific Enamel spray for cars, guess sacrificing the lacquer codes allow this to happen. Only time will tell if the universal black lacquer is a good match to the 33 year old 19U paint.

Should note that two light coats Duplicolor Self Eching lacquer primer was sprayed first after all the door areas repaired were cleaned up. It drys hard and fast, a good product. Then two coats of Duplicolor Sandable primer later, 600 dry sanded to feather into the old black lacquer, just needs masked and sprayed now. If, when, I strip the roof and A/B pillar paint off the car I may consider using that Self Etch primer. Lacquer primers are funny things, gotta be careful about mixing three different lacquers layers together. Lacquer primers are hard to find these days. One reason I use the Duplicolor lacquers.

About sanding the lacquer primer. was told by a painter friend not to wet sand lacquer primer, it absorbs water. Never to old to learn something.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/09/19 05:26 AM

Another nice day weather wise today. Despite the cold day managed to pre-heat the door to 65 degrees and spray 4 coats and spot in the body jamb. Ended up painting the entire latch side of the door, the color match actually is very good. In a month or so will buff it out and knock some of the gloss off the new paint. Can't have it looking to good. Will let it gas out for a week or more before starting the new seals.

Finally, funny how a new door and roof seal project get so involved.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/14/19 02:58 AM

Did a test fit on the Fairchild door seal on the right side door today. The latch side seems to align pretty good but the front top of the seal is crap. Can't see how it's possible to install the top without trimming a lot and it would still be unacceptable. And the first pin down from there is off be a lot, maybe 3/4". Soooooo. That seal will find a home in a trash bag.
Made a phone call to Mike this afternoon, we talked about what is available and his own door seal he now sells. Ordered both door and another set of roof seals from him, they already have been shipped. Gotta love Mike.
I'm expecting the fit to be right this time, need to move on to the driver's door.

Have been shopping for a gallon of black lacquer for a while now. The roof, trunk lid and spoiler need to get repainted yet this Winter. Will be happy if the roof and pillars get done, again a preservation thing, not trophies. Called Hibernia Rest who still sell nitro-cellulose for the real old cars but no longer sells the quality acrylic lacquer. Hibernia I thought from previous inquires was my home run, but, stuck out. Duplicolor Paint Shop paints are lacquer but they require a clear. Just want to shoot 6 or 8 coats of black lacquer and be done, other than the tedious job of color sanding and buffing. Being I'm blending new paint into the old paint for now the clear will make that much more difficult.
Will stop at a few body shops i know and see if anyone has a gallon stuffed away in a back room out of eyesight. I got a 1/2 gal a few years ago that way, enough to do the hood. Spraying lacquer on a car is a no-no for body shops now, but anybody can spray lacquer at their house, except in CA. Supposedly it's illegal to even ship lacquer to CA.
The Restoration Shop sells lacquer which they say is single stage but recommend clearing it. Price is cheap for a gallon of black and a gallon of thinner, $156+ ship and tax. When the paint makers stopped making lacquers 400 bucks was a common price for the few remaining gallons, that was several years ago. You just have to wonder how good the Restoration Shop paint is, almost to cheap.
Most likely will spend the money and get a gallon of their black and do some test panels. Nothing to lose but a few bucks.

Posted By: FrankOC

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/22/19 03:27 AM

Hey Bob, good luck with the new seals, let us know how they work out.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/22/19 06:22 AM

It's been a week since the last update, progress didn't stop.

The door/roof seal availability of something I'm happy with halted the final assemble of the pass door. Now have two sets of door seals and two sets of roof seals sitting, identical sets from different venders. Unfortunately both door seals are not made correctly, 3/4" to short on the front, top of the door. Both sets of roof seals appear to be identical, Fairchild and Softseal the venders. Quality is good, just think the rubber is to firm, especially on the upright section. Have ordered Metro roof seals to compare to Softseal, will use the ones I like better. They should arrive Sat.
Thanks to Mikes Monte and I now have a GM pass side door seal which makes me very happy, So the pass door can be finished with the GM door seal and whichever roof seal is better.
The driver's door is another story for seals. The roof seal will be the same as the pass side but don't have a clue which vender's door seal i will use. As of now I have 7 door or roof seals for the doors and will buy at least one if not two more door sets until something suits me. Boy I wish i could just find a left GM door seal!!!!!!!!

At least this "new weather stripping question" post is still mostly about that.

The real progress is that the pass door slowed me down, no seals yet to install but done otherwise. So moved on to the left door, changed the window motor, lubed everything, PORed the inside lower seam, removed the lower hinge pin and installed a temp pin, re-glued the door guard beam to the door skin, started the repaint of the door rust spots. The left door only has one small rust area around the drain hole at the back of the door and the rub mark where the seat belt lock lever hits. Compared to the amount of repair the right door needed the left is a cake walk. YEA! The door seal on the left door will stay on until I find a quality new seal.

Next is pull the left door off and into the door stand to replace the top hinge, replace bushings and pin in the lower, repair surface rust on the body A pillar and paint, new seam sealer where needed, and run a ground wire from the door to the chassis to insure full voltage to the window motors. The ground for the window motors is now attached to the door shell, then through the hinges to body to complete ground. We can do better.

Slow progress, but progress.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/22/19 05:16 PM

Made a few phone calls this morning, Steele Rubber door seal is a Metro seal. Precision Replacement Parts door seal is not made by them, they would only say Made In USA.
Trim Parts now owns Softseal. So three door seal producers, Fairchild which I know is made wrong, Metro and Softseal. Having talked to Mike a few times he told me this is what I'd find out. Thanks Mike.
For S&G a call was made to my local Chevy dealer parts guy who has dug up discontinued parts for me several times. No luck with his search

Will see if I'm happy with the Metro roof seals and make a decision on whether to go Metro or Softseal for the left door seal.
Posted By: 86ttop

Re: new weather stripping question? - 02/23/19 02:09 AM

Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/01/19 06:24 AM

A little more progress.
Driver's door old door seal carefully removed down the latch side and 1/3 of the way across the bottom. Entire latch side of the door and most of the door bottom edge now in 5 coats of black lacquer after repairing minor surface rust issues. A lot less repairs on this door than the right door was. YEA.

Next driver's door removed and resting in the cradle that was made for the right door. Learned from the right door how to setup the cradle for easy reinstall. Top hinge will be replaced so unbolted that hinge at the door, pulled the temp lower hinge pins and slid the door free and clear of the A pillar. Didn't disconnect any wires for the locks or window. The boot for the wires was pulled out of the door and body holes allowing the door to be moved almost perpendicular to the body. Plenty on room to refinish the A pillar down to the sill plate. Removed the roof seal's first 3" at the bottom of the A pillar which allow fixing some surface rust and repaint of the area the adhesive will touch.

With the door out of the way, the wire boot now open, could feed a ground wire from the factory ground point at the left bottom of the dash to the window circuit ground on the left door. The kick panel trim had to be removed along with the sill plate to paint the lower section of the A pillar anyway. Adding that ground only insures the window circuit ground is good, not depending on going though the hinges and door latch as the ground path. It took longer to select the what black wire used as the ground than doing that wire install. Will it speed up the window motors, maybe, maybe not, can't hurt.

Lots of body seams and old seam sealer in the top hinge area of the body. Three layers of sheetmetal at one place. Many years ago saw some seam sealer had dried and fallen out in that area. A quick fix then was to reseal with black silicone RTV. Removing it along with all the original seam sealer at the primary body seam was a chore. Where there was surface rust I didn't properly clean before the RTV, it bridged the rust and didn't stick well, and stuck like crazy to the black lacquer. RTV seemed like a quick fix back then, hindsight now, don't use RTV.

Many washes of the rust spots with first naval jelly, then vinegar and finally with a weak Muriatic acid. along with scratching and wire bushing got those areas ready for some self etching primer on the bare metal. Spend many hours on that primary seam until satisfied it was shiny metal. There was pitting but metal was still solid, no perfs and rust started from the outside of the seam. Original thought water was getting into the A pillar and causing the damage at that seam. Had a new windshield install last year and while out got to inspect the A pillar, cherry, no leaking there.
Three light coated of sandable primer over the self etch primer Wed night and I could walk away and go to bed.
Thurs afternoon scuffed the primer, a final wash with some prep,,re-masked the jam to shoot black, applied SEM black seam sealer to the areas that needed it and waited a 1/2 hour for the seam sealer to take a set. 4 or 5 coats of Duplicolor emptied another can. Waited a 20 minutes and pulled all the masking. DONE!!
I knew that whole section of the bodies hinge area was going to be work, knew that when I put RTV on it years ago. Pulling the door away from the body now allowed access to the body area to do a good job. To bad it's one of those areas nobody ever sees, it's pretty now. But, DONE.

As with the other side the car was raised and blocked at the left #2 body bushing so the ride height doesn't change as the door is removed and reinstalled. The top hinge bolts will be snugged to the body, door slide right back into place, lower hinge pin dropped in, door side hinge bolts installed and snugged. Because the lower hinge hasn't been removed it won't be hard to adjust the door alignment. All 6 of the top hinge bolts are easily accessible. Just hoping the new aftermarket top hinge doesn't cause any problems. Metro roof seals showed up Tues, not a lot of time to compare to the two sets of soft seal laying on the trunk. But looking at the Metro first though were the Softseal looked better in several places and the Metro may be softer. More on that later once test fitting of them gets done.

Last Winter at this time was laying under the car for a long time moving the lower ball joint forward 11/16" to gain Caster. Not sure which of the two projects, doors or caster was more of a PITA.

Oil man was at the shop last Fri, 635 bucks to fill the tank, glad it hasn't been cold. Spot painting requires 65-70 degrees in the painting zone. The two halogen quartz lamps are a big help.

Oh, think i found the rattle in the left door that drives me nuts some times. The plunger in the left door lock solenoid rattles. Will find a fix for that without buying a new one.
Posted By: Buick Runner

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/03/19 05:48 AM

I would suggest using 2 part epoxy primer as it is waterproof instead of self etching primer which is highly porous and holds moisture like a sponge. Even if you don't have a paint gun, you can use a Preval sprayer for touch up jobs. I also suggest using 2 part epoxy seam seamer and coat it with more epoxy primer.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/04/19 01:47 AM

Have used a Prevail many times, love them. But it doesn't work when held in the horizontal plane, just the vertical. In a confined area I was working in you need all kinds of different spray angles to get paint on the jamb and doors.

Spray epoxy primer may be better but the little bit of bare metal to prime wasn't that much. Epoxy may be the better choice even for lacquer but all the areas fixed are out of site with the door closed. Have given thought to using Epoxy on the roof when I strip the paint off it.
The Duplicolor Self etch is a lacquer, dries fast and hard and would be totally compatible with their sandable primer and top coat. Being I'm basically in the preservation mode and not the pretty mode the lacquers worked very well.
The new Duplicolor spray nozzles are pretty cool. You can rotate the tip of the nozzle to change the pattern from vertical or horz and anywhere in between. First time I've seen any nozzle with the capability. All the Duplicolor paints i bought have that tip. Makes it easy to spray some difficult areas in the jamb.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/04/19 05:56 AM

Got the driver's door reinstalled and top hinge adjusted to my liking. The method of removing and reinstalling with the cradle worked great, a one man show. Being the bottom hinge wasn't moved and used as the locator for the new top hinge it was almost a plug and play. Door side of that hinge was snugged and body side was moved for and aft to adj gap/body lines. As with most things you think you can make it a little better but wind up where you were an hour earlier. But door position is exactly where it was prior to removal and DONE. Neither door had any sag when I started, both now have zero.

After learning a lesson on the pass door trying to drive the hinge pins in to fully seat the fluting under the head of the pin changed things up on the driver's door. On the pass door hinge pins I realized quickly you will never be able to seat them completely when the hinge is installed, to much flex of the hinge, can't hit them squarely on their heads and almost impossible to get the punch cleanly on the head. So on the pass side drove them in 1/2 way and welded the pin to the hinge. A viable fix.
Got smarter on the other door. Only had to put a pin in the lower hinge on the driver's side, new hinge went on the top. Miked the body of the new pin, .349", fluting is .370" and is .200" long. Old pins fluting was .365", and only .175" long. So fluting is oversize from stock, part of the reason the new pins are more difficult to drive.
Chucked the new pin in the drill press and used a disc grinder to remove the fluting off the pin, took it down to .352". Pins are hardened steel, grinding is the only way to remove the fluting. It only required a couple love taps to drive it home until the head of the pin is down against the hinge. A couple good tacks with the MIG, some paint and no one will ever know. Another lesson learned.

Finished the new ground wire to the driver's door. With a new motor, better ground, all the moving parts well lubed again the window speed on the driver's door is more than acceptable with the engine running, it's quick, just not fast like the new cars but I'm happy. Couldn't check the pass window, no switch on that side yet. But it was the slow window before and know even at just battery voltage it's much quicker now. Win Win.

Before the 5-9" of snow arrives tonight got the car out of the shop and turned around to move back onto the pass door, more room on one side of the bay. Both doors are ready to do the door and roof seals, only a few very minor details on the doors yet. Now have an NOS GM door seal for pass door, it goes on first. Then figure out whether Metro of Softseal for the roof. Currently have two roof sets of Softseal and one Metro roof set. I can install either set dry first and see quickly which one I don't like and which I may need to be happy with.

A original door and roof seals are still install on the driver's door. Partly removed at places to repair/paint but reinstalled nicely now, Next week will buy Metro or Softseal door seals, probable both, and hopefully be satisfied with one or the other. Finally getting around to replacing door and roof seals which is what the BIG questions is, what is the best seal choices when choices are so limited.

This whole project started for me because of the left roof rail seal was damaged by some knucklehead. He put his shoulder to the A pillar to move the car forward in the shop. 25 years of doing that takes it toll. Spend a bunch of bucks and a month of time on this fix. Another week or so should finish.
Posted By: SSLance

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/04/19 05:43 PM

Not sure how I missed all of this but I feel pretty caught up now...Good work Bob, as usual.

I remember the fight to remove the passenger side window seal about 6 years ago on my car and and the new driver side seal is still in the box. Screw that mess, I'll put up with the wind noise or turn up the stereo... laugh
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/05/19 04:09 AM

Yeah, removing all that roof seal adhesive is a time consuming job, and makes a mess of the interior. The pass roof seal area is all cleaned up and ready for the new seal. Still have the original seal on the driver's side to remove yet when I get back to that side this week.
Posted By: AkronAero

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/05/19 05:47 PM

Bob - What do you recommend to use to remove the old adhesive/glue without damaging the paint underneath?

I drove out to visit Mike Kramer at Mikes Montes last week and bought (among a number of other things) GM seals for where the T-Tops overlap the windows.
Reasonable price and he has a number left from when he bought the remaining world's supply. Gotta love that guy.
Replacing the aftermarket ones which have variable wall thickness, some hard lumps inside, angled cuts in the face and orange peel surfaces.
Didn't know he had the original GM ones at the time.

Keep posting!

Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/08/19 03:42 AM

The adhesive GM used is very hard to remove. Recommended remover is 3M adhesive remover which I didn't use. Was concerned with getting it on the lacquer paint. The local body supply said to use wax and grease remover, as in a paint prep wash. It helped a little as it would stay wet and soak the adhesive a little but in the end it was pick and pull, and rub. Cleaning every last bit of old adhesive out of the roof seal track took a long time to just do the pass side. Driver's side is up next.

Another update. A trial fitting of first the Metro roof seal and then the Softseal on the pass door and the Softseal won. The Metro is a tad softer but I didn't care for the end sections of the seal, small and not original appearing. Softseal ends closer to factory seals. Metro seal had a moulded section at the bend at the top of the A pillar, looked odd and had a hard time tucking under the blowout clip. The Softseal is a continuous piece from the bottom of the A to the top corner at the B. It conformed to that corner of the A nicely and looks original. Liked the Softseal 90 degree moulded section at the top of the B pillar more than the Metro, a cleaner bonding of the straight sections. So Softseal it is for the roof rail seals.

Started on the 90 degree corner and worked out from there, The rail seal track was totally cleaned of old adhesive and the section down the B pillar took a while to get the seal into the grooves of the track.Once in the track pinned the bottom of the seal and then pulled the seal partly out to move it up or down to distribute the seal evenly in the track. Across the roof's track and down to the bottom of the A was an easy install and the weatherstripping fit nicely. The end seal section at the bottom of the A was temporarily pinned and the seal need to be pulled back out of the track to distribute the seal evenly. Once happy with getting the 90 degree corner located properly and the seal "stretched" correctly the ends were glued/pinned with 3M black Adhesive.
GM glued the roof seal it's entire length with two rows of adhesive. Knowing that these Softseal roof seals may not last to long, knowing what a PITA the adhesive removal is, know my car sees little rain, knowing I have another full set of Softseal roof seals laying on the bench as back up, the decision was made not to glue them in the entire length, just the ends.

Before the new GM door seal is installed the door was closed to check the window to the installed roof seal fit. The window had to be moved rearward to properly seat the front A pillar section, The two UP stops adjusted for the window to be a little lower in the roof section and parallel to the seal when up. The window adjusted to tilt inward a hair more to increase contact at the roof length. All these adjustments are easily done using the provided bolts. From appearance and opening and closing the door the interaction between the window and seal is spot on now.
Next is install the GM door seal. Per GM 3M adhesive used from the top of the front seal section down to the bottom of the door. On the latch side adhesive is about 1 foot down from the top. Both the ends of the door seal got the 3M on the door and seal, allowed to tack and then installed and screwed in place. VERY happy with the ends of those GM seals, fit perfectly and have the plastic in the end to prevent tearing.

Now time to close the door with both new seals installed. As expected you need to close the door hard to compress the new seals. Contact on the window seals was checked via the paper test in about 10 places. PASS.
Closed the door for the day and went home hoping after sitting 12 hours the door would close a little easier. Today put the rest of the door panels back together, so it a completely done door now. It's still to hard to close for my liking presently but will let it closed for days to see if the seal take a set. Will go back and see if the ends of the roof seals need a touch more adhesive yet. Once happy with adhesion apply a seal lube to both seals which should soften them a little.
At the end of the day today tried to move the latch pin out a little but bolt wouldn't budge. Removed the vent cover in the jamb and sprayed CRC Freeze Off on the bolt's threads out the back of the mount. That stuff works great, will attempt a loosening tomorrow.

Turned the car around in the bay to start the final install of the driver's door. Removed the door lock solenoid in hopes of fixing a rattle there. I rarely use the door lock on that side. If the rattle can't be eliminated the lock solenoid may be eliminated.
Funny thing, solenoid on driver's door was riveted on, pass door solenoid is bolted on, hmmmm. I've owned the car since 9200 miles, it wasn't me who replace the pass solenoid. Did it come from the factory that way?

Metro door seals from Rock will be here tomorrow. Metro seems to be the peoples choice for door seals over Softseal, time will tell. If not happy will buy Softseal and install the better of the two on the driver's door. Already have bought three sets of roof seals (2 Softseal and one Metro), two sets of Fairchild door seals (will be trashed), a pass GM door seal and the Metro door set tomorrow. That's 13 seals to replace 4. Buying the Softseal door seals would make 15 seals.

Got an email this morning from Paul B here on the forum, he had a lead on a pair of GM NOS door seals for me. It didn't pan out, they were sold in short order. Still wish I could find an NOS driver's door seal to compliment the pass NOS door seal.

With any luck it's possible the driver's door will be done this weekend and bleeding seal money will stop. Anxious to get the car out and step on the gas pedal for the thrill. Also to get out at 60-70 mph and see how many whistles there are.
Posted By: 86ttop

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/09/19 02:13 AM

When I replaced my door seals with GM ones, it doors remained hard to close for awhile, probably 6 months before the seal took a set, just an FYI!
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/10/19 06:03 PM

When I think about how much time I've spent just doing some R&R on the doors and replacing seals and then compare it to the enormous amount of time several others have spent replacing floors, quarters, rotisserie the body, WOW, they are dedicated people. For a month now have been playing with this little Winter project. And I'm tired of it! This week coming is supposed to be pretty nice, need to get the car out for a drive to appreciate the hours of frustration to make the doors nice again.

Couple things.
Finally managed to get the pass door strike bolt loose. Freeze Off did the trick, just took a day for it to work, Temporarily moved the strike out a little so the door latch didn't "pop" when you opened the door. Will lube the seals later this week which should soften them a little. Readjust strike in a few weeks. Very happy with the glass to seal adjustment on the pass side, could almost say it's perfect.

Drilled the rivets out of the driver's door power lock solenoid, removed it from the door, removed the mounting bracket from the solenoid, tack welded nuts to the bracket so it could be bolted back on instead of rivets. The rubber boot on the solenoid was tore at the bottom, trimmed boot to reattach to the solenoid, cut a piece of 3/4" thick foam and installed it inside the bottom of the boot to prevent the solenoid shaft from rattling. Reinstalled the solenoid, hopefully won't have to listen to it rattling anymore.

Have three roof seal for the driver's side, 2 Softseal, 1 Metro which I don't like, picked the best of the Softsel to install. Cleaned the casting flashing off the areas to be sealed, just the end pieces, scuffed with emery and washed with alcohol . After spending several hours cleaning the old seal and all traces of adhesive out of the track replaced the seal track on the B pillar. One of several production defects in the car since new was the the chrome track used instead of the black trim piece. Part of this seal project was to swap that part out with the donor that Steve R. sent me 10 years ago. GM used a rubbery strip seal with adhesive on both side to seal that seal track piece to the larger black "gutter" trim piece on the car. Looked for a replacement type strip seal but ended up using a bead of black RTV to reseal it. You can't see it and that will work fine for as long as I need it to.

Installed the roof seal and made sure the A pillar corner was not being pulled by the straight sections. That corner need to be relaxed. Had trouble getting the B pillar area of the seal to seat fully in the new trim piece installed, the Softseal is pretty fat in the edge. Finally siliconed that edge of the seal to aid in the install.
Temporarily install only one pin in the ends to hold them in place while spreading the straight runners of seal to be relaxed. That took some time but happy with the seal fit.

With the old door seal install yet closed the door, glass to new roof seal fit is lousy. Played with adjustments many times till "that's as good as it will get". Not happy with the 90 degree B corner, the Sofseal seal up the B pillar is very firm and holds the glass top edge away a hair. The pass side is very good in that corner, the driver's side will have to be OK. Had to move the glass rearward a little, front up stop had to go down a lot. back up stop down about 1/2 of the front, and the glass top tilted inward a good bit too. Glass seals very good on the A pillar, B pillar, is level all the way across the top and is only a hair loose in that 90 degree. Hopefully not a whistle there and doesn't leak, time will tell.

Today now happy with the roof seal positioning and fit glued the seal ends and pinned both ends of the seal. They look good, hopefully a good bond with the 3M adhesive.

When the MIG was out for the solenoid fix put a tack weld on the driver's door hinge pin. Just need to do a paint touchup, done.

Removed the old driver's door seal, it had a lot of adhesive on the hinge side, from the glass area to the bottom corner. Most of it peeled off with some effort but from the looks of it will require a paint touchup before the new seal goes on. More work.

Looking at my paint job on the latch side of the door, will sand and throw a few more coats on it. When it was very cold in the shop I used the quartz lamp to heat the sheetmetal, got it to hot and lacquer flashed off to quickly and paint didn't lay well. Pyrometer told me that surface was to hot. Live and learn.

Hopefully get the Metro door seal test fitted on Mon, would need to order Softseal door seal Mon night if not happy with the Metro.

Oh, window speed on both windows is very acceptable when the engine is running, pass side is much quicker with the new motor.

Asked about what removes the factory adhesive from the roof seal track. Tried the wash prep, mineral spirits, alcohol, lacquer thinner, didn't have acetone on hand. Lacquer thinner worked best but left a gooey mess and evaporated quickly. Could have tried Goo Gone, graffiti remover, nail polish remover, carb cleaner, all possible harmful to the body paint.

Don't know who's reading all this verbiage posted but hoping the details don't bore ya but help make seals a little less frustrating if you ever need to replace them.
Posted By: Crusher

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/10/19 07:59 PM

Wow Bob. After reading that my door seals can rot to hell if they want. Never gonna change them.
Posted By: AkronAero

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/10/19 08:32 PM

Actually Bob, we are reading and learning from you, and appreciate that you give it so much more care than the body shop ever would. We are all wondering if you would like to contract out your services?
I went to MikesMontes and picked up two genuine GM t-top panel seals (where they rest on the glass) to replace my aftermarket ones last weekend. Wish we had done this from the beginning but didn't know he had them and didn't think to ask. Humble guy and very wise!
Look similar but handle better going in. I see I will have to spend time as you are on adjusting them for a tight seal.
Thanks and keep posting.
Oh, and how much will you charge in the future???
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/11/19 01:26 AM

Gordon, thanks for the acknowledgement. Since the death of the "information highway", now the advertising highway, you have to wonder if the time you spend hammering on a keyboard is time well spent.That sharing of information via forums, mailing lists, even Wikipedia, has faded away and is now stuck in everyone's cell phone memory as social media, never to be saved for other to use. Gone. For me, stuck in yesterday, I'll continue long, sometime hard to follow paragraphs of this is what I've found out.
If you look at all the forums, Protouring, LateralG, LS1, the turbo Buicks, Camaro, Chevelle, Nova, the list is endless, even here, there is barely a pulse anymore. The NMCOA will pass away in June, The Nova Nationals is merged with Chevrolet Carslisle in July, my local autoX region can't find two parking lot to race, the handwriting is on the wall in the bathroom, something else to get flushed.

Unfortunately as we grow older we slow down, what used to take a week is now a month. Finding the time to do things is not as easy when you retire, grand-kid sitting, making doctor appointments, wife's ills and my own, there is less time in the week, and the weeks pass quickly. When I was younger working 60 hours a week got a lot done, never said no to making a few bucks. Since have learned to say, NO, don't do that anymore. Have been playing with cars for 50 years, it gets old quickly now. As a sideline have been servicing appliances for the past 30 years. That pocket cash helps defray toy car projects and trips to the grocery store. What is nice about that sideline is a long service call is 4 hours, not 4 weeks like a door seal project. Monte projects are fit between everything else's time requirement, and with the 5 or 6 family vehicles to look after don't take on any more cars, learned to say, NO.

When I retired three years ago the local garage that inspects my vehicles and serviced the van fleet at the newspaper I spent 26 years as building super/maint at kept bugging me to work part time for them. "Your pace of play is to fast and I'm saving the few brain cells I have left to get me through the golden years" was my response.

So nope, enough trouble getting my own stuff done, don't need to complicate that effort more.
Posted By: AkronAero

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/11/19 01:42 AM

Bob, if I were younger and we were closer I'd come over to encourage you while holding your beer. There are so many things I can't (longer) do on my Monte, but what I do is ultimately done so much better, even if not done by the book. I found a long time ago I can't work for others because I spend too much time on things and undercharge. Cheaper to just to things for free. Hitting NMCOA this simmer. With the hole it leaves maybe I'll try Carlisle in 2020?
Best and keep writing!
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/11/19 02:08 AM

Gordon, you'd like the Chevrolet Nationals Carlisle event. Have made several of them in recent years, with the exception of Kevin a great bunch of people to hang with for the day, or weekend if you chose, and a little more to do than sitting in a parking lot all day. Yes, some years have been better than others but still the best Monte/GM car event probably in the nation.
Hoping to meet up with ya there in the future.
Posted By: AkronAero

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/11/19 02:22 AM

I will go after this year, if for no other reason than just to finally meet Kevin!!!!
Posted By: FrankOC

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/11/19 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Crusher
Wow Bob. After reading that my door seals can rot to hell if they want. Never gonna change them.

Great write-up Bob, appreciate all the insight. I'm with Kevin, I'll never touch them.
Posted By: SSLance

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/11/19 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Crusher
Wow Bob. After reading that my door seals can rot to hell if they want. Never gonna change them.

I agree!! laugh
Posted By: PB86SS/87LS

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/11/19 08:01 PM

Keep it up Bob, good info for the future for any of us who tackle these projects. I'm glad I used NOS door strips on my Monte's, was years ago when they weren't as hard to find nor as bad price wise, but still weren't cheap as it was already discontinued. They should last with the limited use/exposure, hopefully.
Posted By: Crusher

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/12/19 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by mmc427ss
Gordon, you'd like the Chevrolet Nationals Carlisle event. Have made several of them in recent years, with the exception of Kevin a great bunch of people to hang with for the day, or weekend if you chose,

Awwwwww Bob, you're so kind. When you come and hang with us this year you can have one of Frank's beer's.
Posted By: 86ttop

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/12/19 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by Crusher
Originally Posted by mmc427ss
Gordon, you'd like the Chevrolet Nationals Carlisle event. Have made several of them in recent years, with the exception of Kevin a great bunch of people to hang with for the day, or weekend if you chose,

Awwwwww Bob, you're so kind. When you come and hang with us this year you can have one of Frank's beer's.

Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/13/19 03:42 AM

Removed the original factory adhesive down the hinge side of the driver's door which pulled some paint and exposed a couple pitted rust spot to fix. Spot painted the areas fixed with self etch primer, wet sanded with 600 the dry sprayed latch side of the door and shot several wet coats of black, big improvement in the finish now on the full perimeter of the door's jamb areas.

The Metro door seals come with a plastic shouldered bushing to use in the 4 screw locations. This to help prevent tear out I assume. The factory screws would be to short using the bushing. Found 4 longer washer headed screws in the trim screw collection to use instead. Had to reduce the plastic bushing height enough so they were the same height as the hole in the seal. Just another minor detail. Washed the areas of the seal to be glued with alcohol, scuffed with emery, washed again. Time to install the Metro door seal today.

Started at the latch side, 3M adhesive down about 10" to the latch on the door, glue on top where the seal would contact, seal and door 3M applied, waited until tacky, install down to the bottom corner, then install top at window and install screws. Wow pretty nice fit. Pinned the seal across bottom of door, nice. Apply adhesive from bottom of door hinge side to the window area, same on back side of seal. The trouble begins. From pin to pin the seal needs to be stretched, two pins pull out of the seal, get them back in and go to the top, manage to stretch the pad and get the two screws in at the top. Install seems to be OK. Roll the window up and no way is that any good. Window isn't aligning with slot in the seal and pulling the section of the seal on the outboard side up with it. The metro seal is much thicker in that area than the OEM seal. Trimmed and trimmed and trimmed until I got it to fit and work as it should when the window goes down and back up. Glued it in and thought OK, seal fits pretty good now.
Next is close the door, or attempt to. NEVER have had to force a door closed that hard. It actually holds the top of the glass away almost 1/8" across the top. SUCKS. Before this with the new SoftSeal roof seal installed and the original door seal still on the door it was a 98% seal, Now it's, xxxxxx.
Walked away, tomorrow is another day.

In the mean time Summit should deliver a SoftSeal door seal by Fri, ordered it this evening. Just hate the thought of having to clean up that 3M mess and maybe some paint again. Now at 15 seals bought to replace 4. Think I've covered all the bases now, and still striking out.

It's a shame the Fairchild door seals I bought first was 3/4" to short on the latch side. I liked the quality and thickness of the end pads and the entire seal seem a little more like the originals for overall softness. BUT, junk is junk.

Applied a pure silicone oil to the pass door seal and roof seal, let it sit for a day with the door open, wiped excess and door with a little effort closes nicely.
Hurray!!! One door is nice.

But I knew from the get go that this project was going to be PITA.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/15/19 06:35 AM

Pretty sure I have two doors on the car now with acceptable seals on the windows and now the doors. The Softseal door seals were delivered today. But they will go back in the box to return to Summit. The Metro seal I glued on the other day I ripped off and tossed in the trash. Spent awhile cleaning up the 3M adhesive I used on that Metro seal. Now ready for another seal install, but it's not the Softseal.

Being I have two driver's door Fairchild door seals that are junk because of being 3/4" to short on the hinge side I cut both of them on the bandsaw and made a seal that is 3/4" longer. Did my homework on what glue to use on EPDM to bond the ends, Cyanoacrylates, Crazy Glue, bought a Permatex Super Glue Gel. As a test cut the pass door Fairchild seal I'll never use, wow. I was surprised in 10 minutes you couldn't pull the joint apart.

Cut and glued the driver's door seal, dresses the joint on the grinding wheel, which does a really nice job, you can hardly see the joint.
Next was test fit the seal ends were they get screwed to the door. The latch end needed no trimming, screwed it to the door and used masking tape to show where the glue doesn't need to be when final installing.
Next to the hinge side end. Different story, several trips to the bandsaw to trim off rubber that can't be stuffed under the beltline weatherstrip. Lots of material removed, back to the grinder to make a nice fit without stressing the holes in the rubber for the screws, this is important. The Fairchild door seal have steel washers in bedded in the rubber to help prevent the tearing at all four holes. The Softseal has nothing there and I can see if you stress the rubber at the hole it will tear. The Metro door seal is thick at the holes and has that plastic bushing to insert into the hole. None of those seals is as good as the OEM seal for securing the ends of the seal, the Fairchild is the next best choice.

With 3M adhesive in hand again glued/screwed the latch side, inserted pins around to the front lower hinge corner, applied 3M from the lower corner to the top pin, installed pins. Applied 3M to seal and door, after tacking uses a thin rod as a guide to align the screw holes and installed screws while pulling and pressing seal end outward to keep stress minimal at the holes in the rubber. The seal is stuck very well to the paint. Bingo.

Forgot to mention seal scuffed with emery and cleaned with alcohol where 3M applied, this really helps to get a good stick.

Double checked all the pins to be fully seated, pressed on the glued areas a few more times. With the window all the way up it took a good bit of effort to close the door but latched on the second hard push.The door now closed where it should be, the glass is now touching the roof seal along the roof, YEAH, we have a seal on the door that works.
Will not get back to the car for a couple days, left the window down a little and will allow that seal to hopefully take a set.

This morning called Fairchild and spoke at length to a sale person about their seal being 3/4" to short. Said I was going to make a seal for the left side from the two seals I had because their seal was the best of the three manufacturers available today even though it was made wrong. Of course they think you are nuts and will look into the length issue with the engineers. Maybe i'll call back in a week and see if that information got passed on.

If i was to recommend what seals to use Softseal is the only choice for a roof seal. The Metro had to many things I didn't like about it. Will trash that set of seals. Have a full untouched set of roof Softseal in a bag. Will stash it away in case i ever need to do a roof seal again. Only the ends are glued in on the car's roof seals now so replacement would be pretty easy.

As far as door seals the Metros are WAY to firm and would never work In my opinion. You can't SLAM a door forever. Their molded ends were the best appearing, smooth, of the three companies. the plastic bushing inserts for the screw holes is a good idea. But the sold rubber full length of the seal would never compress or take a set. More trash.

The Softseal door seal may be ok and would still be to firm even though it hollow for most of it. I never installed them just test fit the ends to see if they would fit and be able to be screwed down. The latch side end would need to be pulled hard to get the screws in and I can see how they would tear out at the holes. A big negative for the Softseal. The Softseal was much less firm than the Metro but compared to the Fairchild was still to firm doing the squish test. The hinge side end of the Softseal had a different shape and cut than the other two seal had, only a little trimming would be necessary there due to the fatness of the seal next to the window,

So the Fairchild door seal is the winner, but only after making it longer.The ends are nice but not perfect in finish but acceptable. The hinge side end need lots of trimming to make it fit just right, the door seal along it's length has different shapes to it to accommodate different areas of the door. It's softer, more forgiving. Bingo.

Funny, last Oct after thinking and reading about doing the door R&R a set of Fairchild door seals and roof seals was bought back then. The roof seals they sell are made by Softseal. So my initial purchase of seals is what I ended up using. Just wish when I checked the door seals back then and found out they were not made correctly that Fairchild would have stepped up to the plate and make them correctly. They would be the best door seal choice, other than OEM for our cars.

Who knows, may get the car out for a drive very soon.
Posted By: FrankOC

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/16/19 12:53 PM

Great write up Bob, I’m exhausted just reading it. Beer is on me at Carlisle.
Posted By: Crusher

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/16/19 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by FrankOC
Great write up Bob, I’m exhausted just reading it. Beer is on me at Carlisle.

Yes and have another one of Frank's beer on me.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/17/19 01:38 AM

Thanks for the beers Frank. Think Kevin will let me use his beer koozy?
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/17/19 02:40 AM

Today finally got the car out of the shop and up the highway a few miles. Both doors are completely back together, all four seals have been silicone lubed, both doors have the door latch strike bolt moved outboard about 3/32" to allow easier closing without forcibly slamming the doors. In a couple months after the weather gets toasty again will readjust the strikes back to original locations to see how much the seals have taken a set. Even moving the strike outboard the window sealing along the full length of glass is very good on both sides. It will only get better as the seals take a set over the Summer. HAPPY, HAPPY!!!!

On the test drive only got to about 45 mph and heard/felt air at the driver's A pillar where the roof seal overlaps the door seal. I was expecting that as the seal's end shapes differ a little from one seal brand to another. Pretty sure this is something I can fix with a little effort.

Next washed the filthy car that been sitting for 3 months now and check for leaks at the glass and seals. Nothing!!! YEAH!. Saw nothing at the door seals also. A 70 mph heavy rain check could be done but that only happens every couple years with this car. It's wind noise I'll focus on now.

Did a cost analysis of this door R&R project.
Spent 702 bucks total. Misc costs were one new door hinge, pins/bushings, 2 window motors, lots of paint supplies and sealers all which add up quickly was almost exactly 350. Considering I bought 15 seals to replace 4 seals; 4 seals get returned to Summit, 5 go in the trash, 2 extra roof Softseal get saved or sold all to end up with 4 good installed seals. The costs of all the seals used and trashed was 356 after it's all said and done. Not bad really, Recently two new OEM door seals were on the market for 300 for the pair. I have a new OEM on the pass door now. So in the end it wasn't overly expensive to take a look at all possible seals and end up with 4 that make me happy. But was somewhat surprised that the other misc costs got to the 350 number.
But like all car project today there is no nickel-and-diming you, the nickel is now a 50 bucks and the dime is a 100.

Just a couple things left to do yet.
Apply seam sealer around the top driver's door hinge at the A pillar. GM did this when the car was build to prevent the runoff from the firewall/cowl area getting behind/into the hinge/A pillar connection. Already have resealed the other three hinges before repainting those areas.

Paper drag used to locate that wind/noise and the seal overlap on the A pillar driver's side. Will need a pass in the car to check the pass door for air leaks.

Interior needs detailed now to remove dust created when a door needed to be wide open to do the project. Front seats and dash were covered through most of job but no matter what you do there is still a cleanup.

Can say this has been a long process, didn't think in the beginning it would be a big deal, but as things go it was. But can say the Softseal roof seals and the Fairchild door seals is the way to go, but only after Fairchild comes to realize they need to make a correction to their product.

Happy motoring.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/19/19 05:10 AM

Got some seat time in the car today. 45 mph and up to 70 got air coming in at the front of the beltline seal (outside window sweep) where it intersect the glass, door seal, roof seal. There is a groove in the door seal that is a trough to connect with the beltline seal to help shed water I assume. All three of the different door seals bought had it but they varied in shape and size. Can't say that matching a Fairchild door seal to a SoftSeal roof seal as I did caused a mismatch there. But that's where the air is coming through. Will do something to stop that air. At least there are no whistles, and no water leaks, and have total glass to roof seal contact. Both the pass and driver's door strike bolts are moved outward for the next few months. Glass to roof seal will get better if I can moved the strike bolts back to original locations, time will tell.

Seam sealed the new driver's side top hinge to the body, a real PITA to get to with a caulking gun but it turned out well. Very little time to work with that sealant, it tacks fast, can't play with the goo to long, you need to know when to fold-um.

Waxed the body jambs and doors jambs, won't need to do that for a couple years now.

Made the mistake of removing the seat belt lock from the pass jamb to lube it and fix it's seal which was pushing out. In order to get it reinstalled the rear seat bottom had to come out, along with the rocker trim, and two other plastic parts in order to see into that area to align the lock's rod. Dummy, leave well enough alone.

Spending time on the driver's door lock solenoid linkage and plastic vent in the body jamb seems to have stopped the rattle one or the other was making. Another plus to this project!!!

My 95 Astro needs some TLC to get it through another year's safety and emissions tests. Brakes all around, tune up, lower rad hose, trans fluid, parts on the way, hoping to get all that done at the end of the week. Can't say I'm happy to trade the hands abused by lacquer fluid, sealants and paints for the one's abused by brake dust, Brakeclean and grease. Even my grand kids don't like the hands. Doing the dishes a couple times a day does little to make them golf ready in a few weeks.

Less updates will be forthcoming, probably a good thing. Need to decide if there is enough time left in this off season to strip the roof and re-shoot it. And whether I really have interest in digging into that project. But that will be a new post IF done.
Posted By: 86ttop

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/19/19 08:13 PM

For the hands, cover them with Vaseline and put clean socks on your hands overnight. Use gloves when working on the other stuff!! Yeah, I hate the gloves too, my hands sweat too bad to use them for very long at a time!!
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/24/19 11:04 PM

Leo, as for the hands they took another beating yesterday. Replacing the front and rear brakes on a very high mileage Astro was an all day'er, brake dust, rust, neverseiz, brakeclean, none good on the hands. Have tried many different lotions over the years but find doing a lot of dishes and AmLactin seems to repair the damage the quickest. Never could get used to wearing those latex gloves the shops use, no feel.
Plugs and wires on the 4.3L Astro next week, that's a bleeding event along with the beating the hands take. #1 and #3 plugs and even #5 are difficult. #1 on a 10 scales is a 9 1/2. I buy 7 plugs instead of 6, in case you crack one.

Had the 86 out again chasing the air leak on the driver's door. Cut a small piece of weatherstripping to temporarily fill the drain channel but that didn't stop the air.
Persistence, I'll fix it once the air inrush is found.

Had to trim the angle on the front end of the driver's door beltline weatherstrip. With the door closed that angle hits the roof seal and was to deep into the seal, abrasion, wear over time and the roof seal would have a rub or cut from the beltline seal. The pass side is OK for now. Will revisit the area when the door strikes are moved inboard again.
For cutting a very small amount off the end of the beltline seal used a Wiss compound snip, made a clean, straight cut. A knife, scissors, much more difficult .

Had to replace the driver's door window switch. One side where the metal clip to hold the switch in was broken. Got a Delco replacement, made in Taiwan, at least it didn't say China on the box, even though they are the same place. A technicality these days.

The weather here is supposed to be nice this coming week, will get a ride-a-long to listen to the pass door for air leaks.

Spent some time surveying how much labor is involved in painting the roof and A,B,pillars. Don't really want to pull the 1/4 glass out for paint. That adds a lot of cleanup work, plus the rubber seals wouldn't look the same after removal. New seals I don't think are available. Just don't think starting another seal battle is something I'm interested in right now.
Posted By: 86ttop

Re: new weather stripping question? - 03/25/19 02:05 AM

Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 04/11/19 05:35 AM

A part of the door R&R is getting the A/F interconnect cable out of the pass door jamb. That required about a week's worth of work. For a decade that cable feed an Innovate LM1 located under the pass seat, the O2 sensor on the pass side. Through the jamb was the necessary route to go 10 years ago. The new OEM pass door seal, thanks Mike, does not need to be dealing with that cable. Cable gone!
More info on the new LC2 wide band install on another post if interested. Have had a good A/F gauge on this car for over a decade now. Can't see how you can run a carbed perf car without one today.

Sidetracked by a dozen other things I haven't make any adjustment to the drivers door yet. Last couple times out at 45 mph still hear air at the front bottom of the glass. Have thought about moving the top of the door in 1/32" via the top hinge. The top hinge on that door is the new one and all fresh, not a big deal to do that. The fender to door alignment is OK right now, for the most part the door is "lower" than the fender as it should be. Being the fender and door edge contours are all over the place you try to keep the door edge lower most of the time. Going more than 1/32" and the top of the door would be noticeable lower than the fender. Hoping that 1/32" would put a little more pressure on the roof seal at the lower front area of the glass. It might even have a little positive effect on the glass at the upper rear corner of the glass.

It seems the door has picked up a squeak in the rear 1/2 of the driver's door. Window up no squeak, down yes. I saw a faint line of rust powder on a sheetmetal overlap where it would be spot welded. Should have put a drop of MIG on it when the door was apart. If the door panel needs to be removed again for another window alignment that will get done.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 05/04/19 04:03 AM

After a dozen drives in the car, most over 45 mph, the air inrush at the A pillar needed to have something done, tired of it.. Where the end of the L roof seal gets glued and pinned to the A pillar is the suspected leak. The Softseal end there is firm, and just doesn't fit that well. A gap of over an 1/8" at the bottom and tapering closer at the top when it should touching the outboard face of the A pillar.

Today made a few parts so the seal could be glued and pushed again the A pillar to hopefully have a successful glue job. A couple pieces soft plastic sheet stock to protect the seal, a piece of rubber on the door side for the same reason and two pieces of wood tapered and cut to fit the door contact areas. With the door opened to it's normal opened position the wood's length is made a little longer. The door is then opened past the normal open position, the two wood piece installed, door then relaxed back to normal wide open, and now you have a little tension on the plastic strips pushing the seal gently against the A pillar. I tried taping the seal, and a few other methods to hold for gluing but using the door and the wood worked out well.
Tomorrow will remove the "press" and see how well the 3M adhesive hold. Everything was prepped well with a paint prep and again with alcohol.
The next step is to used a black RTV to fill what ever gaps are left and also as another adhesive to hold the seal in place. At the very top of that end on the Softseal is hard to get get RTV in. The rail the roof seal goes into ends there and the A pillars interior plastic trim make for a very confining area that needs sealer. I can see gaps there and think that is the air inrush coming from above the top hinge, up the A pillar and exiting that small area. Hopefully that is the fix for that annoying air.

Checking that seal area on the R side door the roof seal is all but touching the A pillar. Haven't had anyone sitting in the pass seat to tell me if there is a leak over there. Once i get the L cured that will be done if necessary.

Both door still need a firm closing but sound good when you close them. R door has a little more pop than the L when you open the door. I'm patient, will live with that through the Summer, who knows the heat may help the seals settle in to an acceptable state.
Posted By: SSLance

Re: new weather stripping question? - 05/05/19 02:07 PM

You know what makes that air sound go away? Roll the windows down... laugh

Good luck on the fight Bob, hope the latest fix works.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 05/06/19 10:50 PM

Dorothy, you're not in Kansas anymore. Yes but, it doesn't get cold in AZ very often. Here we still need some heat sometimes. And in the Summer the windows are up and the R12 A/C keeps the black car cold.

Well the leak at the A pillar is gone. Re gluing the roof seal at the bottom front of it so it had no gap and then using an RTV to fill any gaps around the view-able top and side of that end seems to have taken care of it. The in rush air was noticeable at 40 and got worse as speed inceased. Got the car up to 40 and realized right away it was gone, 70 mph no leak. YEA.

Decided to re-glue the right side at the same place even though it has a much better fit. Will let the 3M dry overnight and do the RTV trick. The good thing about the RTV is it will stay pliable and allow the seal to move when the door is closed. If you clean the seal real good with alcohol the RTV sticks to the EPDM, sticking to the black lacquer is a given with RTV, it stick almost to well.

May still move the top of the driver's door inward a little to improve the window to roof seal across the top. Won't move it much, less than 1/16". After door and roof seal were installed, and the window mechs R&Red, the glass had multiple adjustments done to get the best window to roof seal contact. From the original location of the glass a lot more tilt inward had to be added. Don't want to add anymore and that's the reason to cheat and move the top hinge inward which adds a little more tilt. Trial and error.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 09/10/19 04:31 AM

Well six months since the install of the door seals, a full Summer of hot days with several scorchers, 100s of opening and closing of the doors, windows up and down a lot and 400 miles at 70 mph, and it's time to adj the driver's glass again. Never installed the plastic covers on the driver's door pull strap because I always knew that door panel was coming off again. Never really happy with the window sealing there. Down the highway at 70 mph wind/air noise is more than I can deal with, not terrible, just very annoying.
The culprit is the roof seal itself, the vertical seal section of the B pillar is to firm and doesn't allow the top edge of the glass to seat against the top section of the the corner. When the Soft Seal roof seal is made it is two section bonded in the corner, the roof section is soft, the vertical is much firmer. That joint has a low spot when the sections are bonded, adjusting the glass to tuck it in there only cause the glass to push harder on the vertical B pillar section. Not sure the window adjustments can fix that problem.

Tonight reapplied a coating of silicone on all the door/roof seals. Will have the car out several more times and allow the silicone to absorb into the seals before cleaning up after the application. Have been using high grade pure silicone oil on rubber seals for many decades and had good long lasting seal life. Got almost 35 years out of the door seals on the 86, trunk and under hood seal look like new yet.

Will pull the driver's door apart again and play with the window adjustment soon hoping to get a better seal. Passenger door sealing at roof and door are very good, no apparent noise/air on that side, no water leaks. The pass side Soft Seal roof seal corner is a little nicer on that side, no low spot like the driver's door seal. Glass contact is good across the top, tucks nicely into the corner with the window up when the door is closed. The glass required very little adjustment after the new seals were installed.
Driver's door required large glass adjustments to get OK seal, Now that the Summer is all but over time to try adjusting again.
Posted By: 1 Slow SS

Re: new weather stripping question? - 09/10/19 08:25 PM

That must be the reason I bought up a few sets of OEM seals before they ran out? Even with those it's a tedious process to gain nice fitment.

Posted By: cgh1

Re: new weather stripping question? - 09/13/19 04:49 AM

Do you have any NOS t-Top weatherstripping for the left and right side of the roof? Thanks
Posted By: 1 Slow SS

Re: new weather stripping question? - 09/14/19 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by cgh1
Do you have any NOS t-Top weatherstripping for the left and right side of the roof? Thanks

I don't have any T-top weather stripping, I would try Mikes Montes? I only had one T-top car and I cut the roof off and made a hard top out of it.
Posted By: mmc427ss

Re: new weather stripping question? - 09/26/19 04:01 AM

Pulled the driver's door apart to tweak on the window adjustments again. The door and window seals have been through many heat cycles during the hot Summer,
hundreds of opening and closing of the doors and silicone coated several times since doing the seal replacement in March. This time spent several hours and dozens of adjustments to get the glass to "that's as good as it will get". The glass now fits better in the B pillar top corner and was able to take a little tension off the lower side of the seal /glass contact on the B pillar. Prior if I wanted to close the window all the way up with the door closed it would bind on the seal. You would need to open the door,
jog the up bottom to lift that last 1/4" of up travel and then close the door. That seems to be a lot better now. The firmness of the SoftSeal's vertical B pillar section will never allow that section of seal to compress like the OEM did. The Metro roof seal was a little softer there, but the rest of that seal's construction was not the same quality as the SoftSeal.

I would say both the left and right doors now seal well, drove the car for two hours in the rain to UMI KOTM event, hosed the glass a dozen times washing the pig, no leaks. The gap area just fixed on the left door previously had a trickle, should be very good now, paper test says yes.
Either door still requires a very firm closing to latch when both windows are all the way up and the other door is closed. Now if you leave the other door open and close your door with the glass up it closes with just a firm push. Thinking this has a little to do with closing a door into a sealed cabin. May say the seals are working good on the other door.
Roll the windows down and both doors close nicely, quietly, not much effort needed. The OEM door seal on the pass door and the Fairchild I made for the driver's door fit and seal great, the only choices for door seals. Hopefully Fairchild gets their door seal length corrected, good product otherwise. Also required a little "trim to fit" where the glass intersects at the ends of the seal.

The black plastic clips that cover the screws for the pull strap on the inner door have not been installed on the driver's door since taking that door apart in the Spring. I knew I'd be back in there at the end of the Summer. Well Summer is gone, 6 or 8 hours of tweaking this time and now the plastic black clips are going back on. Time to move on, gotta find a gallon or two of black lacquer, think about pulling the heads, better seat belts, 3/4 R&R in the T56, Winter projects will be here soon.

Always a goal for this car is to put 2000 miles on it a year, currently 1800 with two or three months to go. It was built to drive quickly and enjoy the ride, having a nice set of doors and seals is part of that deal. Can put that project behind me now.
Posted By: FrankOC

Re: new weather stripping question? - 09/27/19 01:18 PM

thanks for all the info Bob, I may tackle the same project this winter.
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